Dear Org,

Given that 'we' have now established how, ultimately, it is immaterial what Prince looks like, as long as he is healthy and happy, should 'we' now suggest that he put more blusher on? Perhaps, the situation with his natural 'fro is that he is possibly becoming too black, even for black people? Personally speaking, I hope Prince continues to become more relaxed in his own skin and culture, as I believe he will undoubtedly re-emerge as once again becoming at 'one' with our universal culture, beyond gender/culture/political/religious lines. The latest evidence suggests that this process is happening already in Prince, if one reads into the lyrics of 20Ten; he has become far less militant as a Jehovah's Witness.

Cue the music: Sea of Everything

love,

Spirit

He had his afro during his earlier period, I don't think that really makes him look "blacker"

Alot of mixed/biracial people I tend to be more natural in how they wear their hair afros & dreads are common place

Checked!

(Your most stupid thread ever. And THAT is saying something!).

Wow, I never knew that if a person wears their hair in an Afro, it is suppose to measure how black they are? What does that say about White/Hispanics or other people who wear their hair in afros or dreds? To the OP would you ask the same question? I have seen White and Hispanic musicians with dreds. It never crossed my mind they were trying to be Black.

Prince had that natural hair texture from the time he was born. It has nothing to do with his talent/skills as a musician.

[Edited 9/21/12 12:58pm]

2elijah said:

Wow, I never knew that if a person wears their hair in an Afro, it is suppose to measure how black they are? What does that say about W/other hite/Hispanics, etc., who wear their hair in afros or dreds? IWould you feel the same way?

Prince had that natural hair from the time he was born. It has nothing to do with his talent/skills as a musician.

we posted photos in the other thread pictures of the darkest woman to the whitest man with afro

I don't see how changing his skin color connects with afro's

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Wow, I never knew that if a person wears their hair in an Afro, it is suppose to measure how black they are? What does that say about W/other hite/Hispanics, etc., who wear their hair in afros or dreds? IWould you feel the same way?

Prince had that natural hair from the time he was born. It has nothing to do with his talent/skills as a musician.

we posted photos in the other thread pictures of the darkest woman to the whitest man with afro

I don't see how changing his skin color connects with afro's

Me either....I don't see what skin color has to do with anyone choosing to wear an afro.....it's just hair for goodness sakes.

[Edited 9/21/12 13:28pm]

2elijah said:

Me either....I don't see what skin color has to do with anyone choosing to wear an afro.....it's just hair for goodness sakes[/b]

[Edited 9/21/12 13:28pm]

TypoQueen said:

2elijah said:

Me either....I don't see what skin color has to do with anyone choosing to wear an afro.....it's just hair for goodness sakes[/b]

[Edited 9/21/12 13:28pm]

Agree. Hair today gone tomorrow - ok bad joke but I so couldn't resist writing it

Cute.

Prince isn't a kid. He is a mature man. He has become and is becoming more comfortable in his own skin. As we age, we just give a f**k anymore what people think. Yes, we all love compliments, however, we are beyond the "high school" peer pressure "bs" that we have all encountered in life. So, that being said, I love the afro and like that Prince is now coming into himself.

He should brownface just like Mitt Romney. He could have a whole new second career on tejano radio.

What is interesting about the org is that so much is impregnated in what people do and don't say, specifically because Prince is a lynchpin for cultural issues or perspectives. That is--many people from many different backgrounds have embraced Prince for many different reasons. Accordingly, Prince--in playing with and manipulating race and gender--has made a career partly by simultaneously challenging and perpetuating race and gender stereotypes. He is, of course, the ultimate hybrid who crosses lines, defies and affirms categories, and embraces cultural infinity and cultural definites as he so chooses. So, simply based on his history and the fact that a vast majority of his fans disagree with and conflict over racial and gender issues as it pertains to what Prince is, does, and should do, it is not outlandish that SpiritOtter or anyone else would raise this question. The truth of the matter is that issues, anxieties, and angers relating to race and gender simmer and fume beneath the vast majority of posts on this site, and I'm not saying that is a good or bad thing. I just think that it is disingenuous when we act like that is not the case.

*

And while I can't say whether Prince has gotten or is becoming more or less militant, essentially because "militant" is such a subjectively loaded and relative term, Prince wearing an Afro can elicit questions as to whether Prince is, once again, playing with race or identity or if it is just a style that he has chosen because it takes less time to maintain or because he's trying to look hip. And while Prince did sport an Afro in the early years, it is not a stretch to think that Prince began perming his hair as a way to be like or connect with his heroes--James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard, Sly Stone--and because there was a time in America when perming one's hair was an attempt to make oneself appear more mainstream or palatable to whites, which also made it an act of self-hatred. Since Prince is not mixed or biracial, his hair was being chemically treated to appear as straight. I'm not saying that Prince doesn't have a fine or softer grade/texture of hair, but from Controversy to 20Ten those hair styles were products of Revlon or Dark 'n Lovely or some box or can because he wanted a more European/Caucasian look. And, no, not all cultural exchange is about self-hatred. When non-African Americans wear Afros it is, in many causes, simply an act of cultural exchange.

*

However, I think that it would be myopic if we don't at least consider the possibility that non-African Americans who embraced dreads or the Afro, especially during the sixties and seventies, were embracing the symbolism of what the Afro and dreads meant for African people in relinquishing the chains of oppression and self-hate of conforming to Eurocentric standards of beauty. So, many non-African Americans who embrace dreads or the Afro do so as much for the socio-political statement it makes as for the aesthetic pleasure. In fact, I would say that the aesthetic pleasure and the socio-political statement of the hair style are one and the same, similar to when James Baldwin wrote about America's fascination with the black penis, "Its color is its size." So, as it relates to dreads and the Afro, their aesthetics is also their socio-political statement. Of course, not everyone who wears dreads or an Afro is making a socio-political statement. That is the natural progression or devolution of any fashion style that begins as a socio-political statement. Once it becomes popular or infamous lots of people will embrace them, wear them, not to make a socio-political statement but merely to be a part of the trends. How many people wear Bob Marley t-shirts and have no real idea of his socio-political commitment and sacrifice? But that does not negate the fact that many people, including non-African people, embrace Marley, dreads, and Rastafarian culture as an aesthetic that communicates a very specific socio-political ideology.

*

Additionally, when I read that Prince is once again becoming at one with our [humanity's] universal culture, I immediately think of Langston Hughes' essay, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain." When speaking of African Americans desiring to be universal, Hughes states, "...this urge within the race toward whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro and as much American as possible." So I often wonder when people want Prince to be "universal" are they really stating that they want Prince to be as less black as possible and as close to white as possible? And in many cases, the debate of what Prince should do or if Prince has lost it includes, in part, a notion that each person is pulling Prince in their own cultural direction of what they think Prince is or desire him to be, and that impacts or influences--in varying degrees--how they measure, evaluate, or connect with what he is doing. I'm not saying that is the prevailing component of how they rate or judge his work, but aesthetic taste is, often, culturally rooted, and often people's aesthetic enjoyment relates to their cultural expectations of what art should be, such as the people who hate the call and response aspects of Prince's shows in contrast to those who hate shows where rock musicians stand in one place and play their instruments.

*

To put it another way, whenever I see a man over the age of twenty-nine wearing braids and a throwback jersey, I think "Dude, you're a grown ass man." Notice I said "think" and not "say". I'm not trying to get my ass whipped. But, my reaction is rooted in certain cultural expectations I have for how a grown man should dress as well as understanding the various ways that African American men are often negatively portrayed. Of course, I also realize that the person has the right to dress as he so chooses. And, in a similar manner, people's reactions to Prince's new anything--in this case hair style--is rooted in their cultural expectations they have as well as rooted in their notions and expectations of what Prince culturally symbolizes to them.

*

Ultimately, I think that Prince has always been at peace with the decisions that he makes though I can't prove it. It seems that he understood what he was doing in being a lightning rod for race and gender issues. And whether it is a perm or a natural, Prince, seemingly, will always be pushing/challenging notions of what African Americans are while, like many African Americans, navigating the external demons of white supremacy and the internal demons of black self-hatred, which is even more complex given the notion that black creativity has often been driven by the pain of self-hatred as well as the desire to overcome self-hatred, even if they didn't know that self-hatred was the cause of the pain and dysfunction.

Well if Prince is supposedly just now getting comfortable with being himself, who was he all those years???

I went through most of my life not knowing who I was not being comfortable with who I thought I was,but that all changed 4 years ago, that's when I met God and he it told me who I was, after all he created me, previous of the 4 years..... I let every one else (the world tell me who I was) sad indeed.

I believe it may be a simular situation with Prince when he met God, but this is purely spectulation on my part, I do not know him so it remains only speculation.

It's all shine now

1725topp said:

What is interesting about the org is that so much is impregnated in what people do and don't say, specifically because Prince is a lynchpin for cultural issues or perspectives. That is--many people from many different backgrounds have embraced Prince for many different reasons. Accordingly, Prince--in playing with and manipulating race and gender--has made a career partly by simultaneously challenging and perpetuating race and gender stereotypes. He is, of course, the ultimate hybrid who crosses lines, defies and affirms categories, and embraces cultural infinity and cultural definites as he so chooses. So, simply based on his history and the fact that a vast majority of his fans disagree with and conflict over racial and gender issues as it pertains to what Prince is, does, and should do, it is not outlandish that SpiritOtter or anyone else would raise this question. The truth of the matter is that issues, anxieties, and angers relating to race and gender simmer and fume beneath the vast majority of posts on this site, and I'm not saying that is a good or bad thing. I just think that it is disingenuous when we act like that is not the case.

*

And while I can't say whether Prince has gotten or is becoming more or less militant, essentially because "militant" is such a subjectively loaded and relative term, Prince wearing an Afro can elicit questions as to whether Prince is, once again, playing with race or identity or if it is just a style that he has chosen because it takes less time to maintain or because he's trying to look hip. And while Prince did sport an Afro in the early years, it is not a stretch to think that Prince began perming his hair as a way to be like or connect with his heroes--James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard, Sly Stone--and because there was a time in America when perming one's hair was an attempt to make oneself appear more mainstream or palatable to whites, which also made it an act of self-hatred. Since Prince is not mixed or biracial, his hair was being chemically treated to appear as straight. I'm not saying that Prince doesn't have a fine or softer grade/texture of hair, but from Controversy to 20Ten those hair styles were products of Revlon or Dark 'n Lovely or some box or can because he wanted a more European/Caucasian look. And, no, not all cultural exchange is about self-hatred. When non-African Americans wear Afros it is, in many causes, simply an act of cultural exchange.

*

However, I think that it would be myopic if we don't at least consider the possibility that non-African Americans who embraced dreads or the Afro, especially during the sixties and seventies, were embracing the symbolism of what the Afro and dreads meant for African people in relinquishing the chains of oppression and self-hate of conforming to Eurocentric standards of beauty. So, many non-African Americans who embrace dreads or the Afro do so as much for the socio-political statement it makes as for the aesthetic pleasure. In fact, I would say that the aesthetic pleasure and the socio-political statement of the hair style are one and the same, similar to when James Baldwin wrote about America's fascination with the black penis, "Its color is its size." So, as it relates to dreads and the Afro, their aesthetics is also their socio-political statement. Of course, not everyone who wears dreads or an Afro is making a socio-political statement. That is the natural progression or devolution of any fashion style that begins as a socio-political statement. Once it becomes popular or infamous lots of people will embrace them, wear them, not to make a socio-political statement but merely to be a part of the trends. How many people wear Bob Marley t-shirts and have no real idea of his socio-political commitment and sacrifice? But that does not negate the fact that many people, including non-African people, embrace Marley, dreads, and Rastafarian culture as an aesthetic that communicates a very specific socio-political ideology.

*

Additionally, when I read that Prince is once again becoming at one with our [humanity's] universal culture, I immediately think of Langston Hughes' essay, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain." When speaking of African Americans desiring to be universal, Hughes states, "...this urge within the race toward whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro and as much American as possible." So I often wonder when people want Prince to be "universal" are they really stating that they want Prince to be as less black as possible and as close to white as possible? And in many cases, the debate of what Prince should do or if Prince has lost it includes, in part, a notion that each person is pulling Prince in their own cultural direction of what they think Prince is or desire him to be, and that impacts or influences--in varying degrees--how they measure, evaluate, or connect with what he is doing. I'm not saying that is the prevailing component of how they rate or judge his work, but aesthetic taste is, often, culturally rooted, and often people's aesthetic enjoyment relates to their cultural expectations of what art should be, such as the people who hate the call and response aspects of Prince's shows in contrast to those who hate shows where rock musicians stand in one place and play their instruments.

*

To put it another way, whenever I see a man over the age of twenty-nine wearing braids and a throwback jersey, I think "Dude, you're a grown ass man." Notice I said "think" and not "say". I'm not trying to get my ass whipped. But, my reaction is rooted in certain cultural expectations I have for how a grown man should dress as well as understanding the various ways that African American men are often negatively portrayed. Of course, I also realize that the person has the right to dress as he so chooses. And, in a similar manner, people's reactions to Prince's new anything--in this case hair style--is rooted in their cultural expectations they have as well as rooted in their notions and expectations of what Prince culturally symbolizes to them.

*

Ultimately, I think that Prince has always been at peace with the decisions that he makes though I can't prove it. It seems that he understood what he was doing in being a lightning rod for race and gender issues. And whether it is a perm or a natural, Prince, seemingly, will always be pushing/challenging notions of what African Americans are while, like many African Americans, navigating the external demons of white supremacy and the internal demons of black self-hatred, which is even more complex given the notion that black creativity has often been driven by the pain of self-hatred as well as the desire to overcome self-hatred, even if they didn't know that self-hatred was the cause of the pain and dysfunction.

You simply bring LIGHT to what is not so known!

I love your posts! I learn something everyday from your exhortations!

By all means, keep talking!

BUT BACK TO THE OP; I really doubt Prince's hair has anything to do with his music and his creative output. He has a lot songs about his hair though, obviously! lol

I just think he is tapping into a 1960s - 1970s look - it is just a style he is liking at this moment - not a particular statement he is making??????

Prince is just tapping in to his feminine side and changing his hair style as us ladies do

SpiritOtter said:

Perhaps, the situation with his natural 'fro is that he is possibly becoming too black, even for black people?

Well done on winning the org "Over-Analysis of the Year" award.

The fella is losing his hair and an out of shape afro covers more bald spots than any hairstyle out there - that's it pure & simple.

Your prize is a day off from asking people "and how does that make you feel?"

i don't think it's a blackness issue 4 prince, i just think he's impressed with andy allo's image.. it's like when people say a dog can look like it's owner, maybe she has spent so much time with prince that he's unconsiously taken inspiration from her style & transformed without realising

vitriol said:

(Your most stupid thread ever. And THAT is saying something!).

Agreed.

Any post that muses on the question of whether or not Prince is becoming "too black, even for black people" speaks a great deal more about the poster than it does the man in question.

danzakairos said:

Well if Prince is supposedly just now getting comfortable with being himself, who was he all those years???

I went through most of my life not knowing who I was not being comfortable with who I thought I was,but that all changed 4 years ago, that's when I met God and he it told me who I was, after all he created me, previous of the 4 years..... I let every one else (the world tell me who I was) sad indeed.

I believe it may be a simular situation with Prince when he met God, but this is purely spectulation on my part, I do not know him so it remains only speculation.

It's all shine now

Yes, but eventually you had to go through some life experiences to reach that point of peace and acceptance of self, right?

I think the point you may be missing is that as humans, we all have to go through life's trials and tribulations, until we find personal peace and acceptance of who we are as individuals, and our purpose in this life. It's called 'life experiences' which you experiment throughout your life on the road to discovering who you are as an individual--from childhood--as you leave the nest--to adulthood. Often times, throughout one's adulthood, there are societal, economic, non-religious, religious, racial or political situations one may find themselves dealing with, and how they manage to survive those situations, will be the basis for determining their mental and spiritual strength and survival, as they travel the road to finding personal peace and accepting of self.

Eventually or maybe not for some, there will come a time when they reach that goal, but they won't get there without experiencing the trials and tribulations of life first. Glad you found your personal peace though.

[Edited 9/22/12 6:47am]

1725topp said:

What is interesting about the org is that so much is impregnated in what people do and don't say, specifically because Prince is a lynchpin for cultural issues or perspectives. That is--many people from many different backgrounds have embraced Prince for many different reasons. Accordingly, Prince--in playing with and manipulating race and gender--has made a career partly by simultaneously challenging and perpetuating race and gender stereotypes. He is, of course, the ultimate hybrid who crosses lines, defies and affirms categories, and embraces cultural infinity and cultural definites as he so chooses. So, simply based on his history and the fact that a vast majority of his fans disagree with and conflict over racial and gender issues as it pertains to what Prince is, does, and should do, it is not outlandish that SpiritOtter or anyone else would raise this question. The truth of the matter is that issues, anxieties, and angers relating to race and gender simmer and fume beneath the vast majority of posts on this site, and I'm not saying that is a good or bad thing. I just think that it is disingenuous when we act like that is not the case.

*

And while I can't say whether Prince has gotten or is becoming more or less militant, essentially because "militant" is such a subjectively loaded and relative term, Prince wearing an Afro can elicit questions as to whether Prince is, once again, playing with race or identity or if it is just a style that he has chosen because it takes less time to maintain or because he's trying to look hip. And while Prince did sport an Afro in the early years, it is not a stretch to think that Prince began perming his hair as a way to be like or connect with his heroes--James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard, Sly Stone--and because there was a time in America when perming one's hair was an attempt to make oneself appear more mainstream or palatable to whites, which also made it an act of self-hatred. Since Prince is not mixed or biracial, his hair was being chemically treated to appear as straight. I'm not saying that Prince doesn't have a fine or softer grade/texture of hair, but from Controversy to 20Ten those hair styles were products of Revlon or Dark 'n Lovely or some box or can because he wanted a more European/Caucasian look. And, no, not all cultural exchange is about self-hatred. When non-African Americans wear Afros it is, in many causes, simply an act of cultural exchange.

*

However, I think that it would be myopic if we don't at least consider the possibility that non-African Americans who embraced dreads or the Afro, especially during the sixties and seventies, were embracing the symbolism of what the Afro and dreads meant for African people in relinquishing the chains of oppression and self-hate of conforming to Eurocentric standards of beauty. So, many non-African Americans who embrace dreads or the Afro do so as much for the socio-political statement it makes as for the aesthetic pleasure. In fact, I would say that the aesthetic pleasure and the socio-political statement of the hair style are one and the same, similar to when James Baldwin wrote about America's fascination with the black penis, "Its color is its size." So, as it relates to dreads and the Afro, their aesthetics is also their socio-political statement. Of course, not everyone who wears dreads or an Afro is making a socio-political statement. That is the natural progression or devolution of any fashion style that begins as a socio-political statement. Once it becomes popular or infamous lots of people will embrace them, wear them, not to make a socio-political statement but merely to be a part of the trends. How many people wear Bob Marley t-shirts and have no real idea of his socio-political commitment and sacrifice? But that does not negate the fact that many people, including non-African people, embrace Marley, dreads, and Rastafarian culture as an aesthetic that communicates a very specific socio-political ideology.

*

Additionally, when I read that Prince is once again becoming at one with our [humanity's] universal culture, I immediately think of Langston Hughes' essay, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain." When speaking of African Americans desiring to be universal, Hughes states, "...this urge within the race toward whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro and as much American as possible." So I often wonder when people want Prince to be "universal" are they really stating that they want Prince to be as less black as possible and as close to white as possible? And in many cases, the debate of what Prince should do or if Prince has lost it includes, in part, a notion that each person is pulling Prince in their own cultural direction of what they think Prince is or desire him to be, and that impacts or influences--in varying degrees--how they measure, evaluate, or connect with what he is doing. I'm not saying that is the prevailing component of how they rate or judge his work, but aesthetic taste is, often, culturally rooted, and often people's aesthetic enjoyment relates to their cultural expectations of what art should be, such as the people who hate the call and response aspects of Prince's shows in contrast to those who hate shows where rock musicians stand in one place and play their instruments.

*

To put it another way, whenever I see a man over the age of twenty-nine wearing braids and a throwback jersey, I think "Dude, you're a grown ass man." Notice I said "think" and not "say". I'm not trying to get my ass whipped. But, my reaction is rooted in certain cultural expectations I have for how a grown man should dress as well as understanding the various ways that African American men are often negatively portrayed. Of course, I also realize that the person has the right to dress as he so chooses. And, in a similar manner, people's reactions to Prince's new anything--in this case hair style--is rooted in their cultural expectations they have as well as rooted in their notions and expectations of what Prince culturally symbolizes to them.

*

Ultimately, I think that Prince has always been at peace with the decisions that he makes though I can't prove it. It seems that he understood what he was doing in being a lightning rod for race and gender issues. And whether it is a perm or a natural, Prince, seemingly, will always be pushing/challenging notions of what African Americans are while, like many African Americans, navigating the external demons of white supremacy and the internal demons of black self-hatred, which is even more complex given the notion that black creativity has often been driven by the pain of self-hatred as well as the desire to overcome self-hatred, even if they didn't know that self-hatred was the cause of the pain and dysfunction.

Wow, after reading your post, I asked myself if I owe apologies to the OP of this thread. Maybe I should have given him/her a chance to explain their point. But I must warn you that the topic of Prince and race, is a very touchy one around here, and often gets shot down with a quickness.

You have to walk a thin line when daring to discuss Prince and race, , as it seems to be an uncomfortable topic, where some would rather dismiss it altogether. Now about Prince showing up on The View wearing his natural born, textured hair vs permed/relaxed hair, that so many fans were used to seeing, the afro hairdo that he presented on The View surprised many, when they saw him.

For many Prince's more straightened hairdos were more accepting by his multiracial fan base, because quite frankly, I believe most were used to society's dictated standard of beauty, which usually dictates/presents as a European standard of beauty. Not just in America, but throughout the globe, whether it's the texture of hair or the skin tone or size. That in and of itself is an uncomfortable truth, but it's truth regardless.

His hair, to many, worn in a straightened texture, became a part of his signature/image. The 'Pretty Man' appearance, the lighter skin, the sexy, enticing, fantasized image, that many of his female fans embraced, because society conditioned most to believe, those are the qualities acceptable as beauty and sexy ( The Pretty Man reference, is something many in the Black community know exactly what I'm referring to, but too often an uncomfortable topic in our community to talk about among ourselves as well, because it plays on the 'light vs dark' topic, that has been an issue within the Black community since the days of slavery, so you have to tread lightly when discussing it. I'm sure I'll probably catch hell for saying this, but that would be nothing unusual around here. ).

Anyway, besides Prince being an amazing, creative, skilled musician/artist, and performer, that image he presented of himself, to many is attached to society's standard of beauty. So I know what you mean in your post when you mentioned, James Brown, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, etc., at one time perming their hair as well. Let's not forget those Black artists, prior to the days of JB, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, as we take a step back in the 50s to the DooWop era, of black male singers/groups, who used to basically 'wax or 'conk' their hair to have a more accepting, appealing straightened, 'pretty boy/man' look. It all ties in.

So the reaction from many when they saw Prince wearing a 'natural' after all these years, doesn't surprise me. They were so used to seeing a man of a different image, they had grown used to, even to the point where some who are not familiar with that type of natural hair, accusing him of wearing a wig or hoping it's just 'temporary', because they're probably so afraid they will lose the fantasized image of Prince with straightened hair, they've embraced for so long.

Although many embraced Prince's afro, when reading between the lines of some of the nasty comments on this site and others about it, the other day, some immediately associated his natural texture of hair as being 'unatttractive' immediately, yet isn't that what society have taught some of them? That, that type of hair is not considered 'a standard of beauty? I wonder sometimes if people read between the lines of their comments and don't recognize their own hidden prejudices behind it.

For some who claimed they didn't like his afro, because it 'wasn't shaped right', well, some may be honest about that, but some may be using that as an excuse, to not openly admit that they rather his hair stay straightened, to maintain their fantasized, sexy image they've created of him for themselves, and now with him wearing his hair natural, they feel like they've been robbed of that.

For all the fans know, Prince may wear his hair different during the Chicago shows. He may wear it in an afro one day, blow it out the next, and wear it differently, but I don't think it is fair to judge him on his hair. It won't take anything away from his talent/skills as a musician or his character as a person. If he was the same Prince months before he appeared on the View with a natural, then he'll still be the same Prince today and tomorrow, regardless if he shaves all his hair off, wears an afro, wears his hair straightened. However he chooses to wear it, is fine with me.

At the end of the day in the words of India Arie, the way I see it "Prince is not his hair". As always, 1725Stopp, you always present an amazing post.

EyeJester7 said:

1725topp said:

What is interesting about the org is that so much is impregnated in what people do and don't say, specifically because Prince is a lynchpin for cultural issues or perspectives. That is--many people from many different backgrounds have embraced Prince for many different reasons. Accordingly, Prince--in playing with and manipulating race and gender--has made a career partly by simultaneously challenging and perpetuating race and gender stereotypes. He is, of course, the ultimate hybrid who crosses lines, defies and affirms categories, and embraces cultural infinity and cultural definites as he so chooses. So, simply based on his history and the fact that a vast majority of his fans disagree with and conflict over racial and gender issues as it pertains to what Prince is, does, and should do, it is not outlandish that SpiritOtter or anyone else would raise this question. The truth of the matter is that issues, anxieties, and angers relating to race and gender simmer and fume beneath the vast majority of posts on this site, and I'm not saying that is a good or bad thing. I just think that it is disingenuous when we act like that is not the case.

*

And while I can't say whether Prince has gotten or is becoming more or less militant, essentially because "militant" is such a subjectively loaded and relative term, Prince wearing an Afro can elicit questions as to whether Prince is, once again, playing with race or identity or if it is just a style that he has chosen because it takes less time to maintain or because he's trying to look hip. And while Prince did sport an Afro in the early years, it is not a stretch to think that Prince began perming his hair as a way to be like or connect with his heroes--James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard, Sly Stone--and because there was a time in America when perming one's hair was an attempt to make oneself appear more mainstream or palatable to whites, which also made it an act of self-hatred. Since Prince is not mixed or biracial, his hair was being chemically treated to appear as straight. I'm not saying that Prince doesn't have a fine or softer grade/texture of hair, but from Controversy to 20Ten those hair styles were products of Revlon or Dark 'n Lovely or some box or can because he wanted a more European/Caucasian look. And, no, not all cultural exchange is about self-hatred. When non-African Americans wear Afros it is, in many causes, simply an act of cultural exchange.

*

However, I think that it would be myopic if we don't at least consider the possibility that non-African Americans who embraced dreads or the Afro, especially during the sixties and seventies, were embracing the symbolism of what the Afro and dreads meant for African people in relinquishing the chains of oppression and self-hate of conforming to Eurocentric standards of beauty. So, many non-African Americans who embrace dreads or the Afro do so as much for the socio-political statement it makes as for the aesthetic pleasure. In fact, I would say that the aesthetic pleasure and the socio-political statement of the hair style are one and the same, similar to when James Baldwin wrote about America's fascination with the black penis, "Its color is its size." So, as it relates to dreads and the Afro, their aesthetics is also their socio-political statement. Of course, not everyone who wears dreads or an Afro is making a socio-political statement. That is the natural progression or devolution of any fashion style that begins as a socio-political statement. Once it becomes popular or infamous lots of people will embrace them, wear them, not to make a socio-political statement but merely to be a part of the trends. How many people wear Bob Marley t-shirts and have no real idea of his socio-political commitment and sacrifice? But that does not negate the fact that many people, including non-African people, embrace Marley, dreads, and Rastafarian culture as an aesthetic that communicates a very specific socio-political ideology.

*

Additionally, when I read that Prince is once again becoming at one with our [humanity's] universal culture, I immediately think of Langston Hughes' essay, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain." When speaking of African Americans desiring to be universal, Hughes states, "...this urge within the race toward whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro and as much American as possible." So I often wonder when people want Prince to be "universal" are they really stating that they want Prince to be as less black as possible and as close to white as possible? And in many cases, the debate of what Prince should do or if Prince has lost it includes, in part, a notion that each person is pulling Prince in their own cultural direction of what they think Prince is or desire him to be, and that impacts or influences--in varying degrees--how they measure, evaluate, or connect with what he is doing. I'm not saying that is the prevailing component of how they rate or judge his work, but aesthetic taste is, often, culturally rooted, and often people's aesthetic enjoyment relates to their cultural expectations of what art should be, such as the people who hate the call and response aspects of Prince's shows in contrast to those who hate shows where rock musicians stand in one place and play their instruments.

*

To put it another way, whenever I see a man over the age of twenty-nine wearing braids and a throwback jersey, I think "Dude, you're a grown ass man." Notice I said "think" and not "say". I'm not trying to get my ass whipped. But, my reaction is rooted in certain cultural expectations I have for how a grown man should dress as well as understanding the various ways that African American men are often negatively portrayed. Of course, I also realize that the person has the right to dress as he so chooses. And, in a similar manner, people's reactions to Prince's new anything--in this case hair style--is rooted in their cultural expectations they have as well as rooted in their notions and expectations of what Prince culturally symbolizes to them.

*

Ultimately, I think that Prince has always been at peace with the decisions that he makes though I can't prove it. It seems that he understood what he was doing in being a lightning rod for race and gender issues. And whether it is a perm or a natural, Prince, seemingly, will always be pushing/challenging notions of what African Americans are while, like many African Americans, navigating the external demons of white supremacy and the internal demons of black self-hatred, which is even more complex given the notion that black creativity has often been driven by the pain of self-hatred as well as the desire to overcome self-hatred, even if they didn't know that self-hatred was the cause of the pain and dysfunction.

You simply bring LIGHT to what is not so known!

I love your posts! I learn something everyday from your exhortations!

By all means, keep talking!

BUT BACK TO THE OP; I really doubt Prince's hair has anything to do with his music and his creative output. He has a lot songs about his hair though, obviously! lol

i 2nd that

2elijah said:

1725topp said:

What is interesting about the org is that so much is impregnated in what people do and don't say, specifically because Prince is a lynchpin for cultural issues or perspectives. That is--many people from many different backgrounds have embraced Prince for many different reasons. Accordingly, Prince--in playing with and manipulating race and gender--has made a career partly by simultaneously challenging and perpetuating race and gender stereotypes. He is, of course, the ultimate hybrid who crosses lines, defies and affirms categories, and embraces cultural infinity and cultural definites as he so chooses. So, simply based on his history and the fact that a vast majority of his fans disagree with and conflict over racial and gender issues as it pertains to what Prince is, does, and should do, it is not outlandish that SpiritOtter or anyone else would raise this question. The truth of the matter is that issues, anxieties, and angers relating to race and gender simmer and fume beneath the vast majority of posts on this site, and I'm not saying that is a good or bad thing. I just think that it is disingenuous when we act like that is not the case.

*

And while I can't say whether Prince has gotten or is becoming more or less militant, essentially because "militant" is such a subjectively loaded and relative term, Prince wearing an Afro can elicit questions as to whether Prince is, once again, playing with race or identity or if it is just a style that he has chosen because it takes less time to maintain or because he's trying to look hip. And while Prince did sport an Afro in the early years, it is not a stretch to think that Prince began perming his hair as a way to be like or connect with his heroes--James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard, Sly Stone--and because there was a time in America when perming one's hair was an attempt to make oneself appear more mainstream or palatable to whites, which also made it an act of self-hatred. Since Prince is not mixed or biracial, his hair was being chemically treated to appear as straight. I'm not saying that Prince doesn't have a fine or softer grade/texture of hair, but from Controversy to 20Ten those hair styles were products of Revlon or Dark 'n Lovely or some box or can because he wanted a more European/Caucasian look. And, no, not all cultural exchange is about self-hatred. When non-African Americans wear Afros it is, in many causes, simply an act of cultural exchange.

*

However, I think that it would be myopic if we don't at least consider the possibility that non-African Americans who embraced dreads or the Afro, especially during the sixties and seventies, were embracing the symbolism of what the Afro and dreads meant for African people in relinquishing the chains of oppression and self-hate of conforming to Eurocentric standards of beauty. So, many non-African Americans who embrace dreads or the Afro do so as much for the socio-political statement it makes as for the aesthetic pleasure. In fact, I would say that the aesthetic pleasure and the socio-political statement of the hair style are one and the same, similar to when James Baldwin wrote about America's fascination with the black penis, "Its color is its size." So, as it relates to dreads and the Afro, their aesthetics is also their socio-political statement. Of course, not everyone who wears dreads or an Afro is making a socio-political statement. That is the natural progression or devolution of any fashion style that begins as a socio-political statement. Once it becomes popular or infamous lots of people will embrace them, wear them, not to make a socio-political statement but merely to be a part of the trends. How many people wear Bob Marley t-shirts and have no real idea of his socio-political commitment and sacrifice? But that does not negate the fact that many people, including non-African people, embrace Marley, dreads, and Rastafarian culture as an aesthetic that communicates a very specific socio-political ideology.

*

Additionally, when I read that Prince is once again becoming at one with our [humanity's] universal culture, I immediately think of Langston Hughes' essay, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain." When speaking of African Americans desiring to be universal, Hughes states, "...this urge within the race toward whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro and as much American as possible." So I often wonder when people want Prince to be "universal" are they really stating that they want Prince to be as less black as possible and as close to white as possible? And in many cases, the debate of what Prince should do or if Prince has lost it includes, in part, a notion that each person is pulling Prince in their own cultural direction of what they think Prince is or desire him to be, and that impacts or influences--in varying degrees--how they measure, evaluate, or connect with what he is doing. I'm not saying that is the prevailing component of how they rate or judge his work, but aesthetic taste is, often, culturally rooted, and often people's aesthetic enjoyment relates to their cultural expectations of what art should be, such as the people who hate the call and response aspects of Prince's shows in contrast to those who hate shows where rock musicians stand in one place and play their instruments.

*

To put it another way, whenever I see a man over the age of twenty-nine wearing braids and a throwback jersey, I think "Dude, you're a grown ass man." Notice I said "think" and not "say". I'm not trying to get my ass whipped. But, my reaction is rooted in certain cultural expectations I have for how a grown man should dress as well as understanding the various ways that African American men are often negatively portrayed. Of course, I also realize that the person has the right to dress as he so chooses. And, in a similar manner, people's reactions to Prince's new anything--in this case hair style--is rooted in their cultural expectations they have as well as rooted in their notions and expectations of what Prince culturally symbolizes to them.

*

Ultimately, I think that Prince has always been at peace with the decisions that he makes though I can't prove it. It seems that he understood what he was doing in being a lightning rod for race and gender issues. And whether it is a perm or a natural, Prince, seemingly, will always be pushing/challenging notions of what African Americans are while, like many African Americans, navigating the external demons of white supremacy and the internal demons of black self-hatred, which is even more complex given the notion that black creativity has often been driven by the pain of self-hatred as well as the desire to overcome self-hatred, even if they didn't know that self-hatred was the cause of the pain and dysfunction.

Wow, after reading your post, I asked myself if I owe apologies to the OP of this thread. Maybe I should have given him/her a chance to explain their point. But I must warn you that the topic of Prince and race, is a very touchy one around here, and often gets shot down with a quickness.

You have to walk a thin line when daring to discuss Prince and race, , as it seems to be an uncomfortable topic, where some would rather dismiss it altogether. Now about Prince showing up on The View wearing his natural born, textured hair vs permed/relaxed hair, that so many fans were used to seeing, the afro hairdo that he presented on The View surprised many, when they saw him.

For many Prince's more straightened hairdos were more accepting by his multiracial fan base, because quite frankly, I believe most were used to society's dictated standard of beauty, which usually dictates/presents as a European standard of beauty. Not just in America, but throughout the globe, whether it's the texture of hair or the skin tone or size. That in and of itself is an uncomfortable truth, but it's truth regardless.

His hair, to many, worn in a straightened texture, became a part of his signature/image. The 'Pretty Man' appearance, the lighter skin, the sexy, enticing, fantasized image, that many of his female fans embraced, because society conditioned most to believe, those are the qualities acceptable as beauty and sexy ( The Pretty Man reference, is something many in the Black community know exactly what I'm referring to, but too often an uncomfortable topic in our community to talk about among ourselves as well, because it plays on the 'light vs dark' topic, that has been an issue within the Black community since the days of slavery, so you have to tread lightly when discussing it. I'm sure I'll probably catch hell for saying this, but that would be nothing unusual around here. ).

Anyway, besides Prince being an amazing, creative, skilled musician/artist, and performer, that image he presented of himself, to many is attached to society's standard of beauty. So I know what you mean in your post when you mentioned, James Brown, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, etc., at one time perming their hair as well. Let's not forget those Black artists, prior to the days of JB, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, as we take a step back in the 50s to the DooWop era, of black male singers/groups, who used to basically 'wax or 'conk' their hair to have a more accepting, appealing straightened, 'pretty boy/man' look. It all ties in.

So the reaction from many when they saw Prince wearing a 'natural' after all these years, doesn't surprise me. They were so used to seeing a man of a different image, they had grown used to, even to the point where some who are not familiar with that type of natural hair, accusing him of wearing a wig or hoping it's just 'temporary', because they're probably so afraid they will lose the fantasized image of Prince with straightened hair, they've embraced for so long.

Although many embraced Prince's afro, when reading between the lines of some of the nasty comments on this site and others about it, the other day, some immediately associated his natural texture of hair as being 'unatttractive' immediately, yet isn't that what society have taught some of them? That, that type of hair is not considered 'a standard of beauty? I wonder sometimes if people read between the lines of their comments and don't recognize their own hidden prejudices behind it.

For some who claimed they didn't like his afro, because it 'wasn't shaped right', well, some may be honest about that, but some may be using that as an excuse, to not openly admit that they rather his hair stay straightened, to maintain their fantasized, sexy image they've created of him for themselves, and now with him wearing his hair natural, they feel like they've been robbed of that.

For all the fans know, Prince may wear his hair different during the Chicago shows. He may wear it in an afro one day, blow it out the next, and wear it differently, but I don't think it is fair to judge him on his hair. It won't take anything away from his talent/skills as a musician or his character as a person. If he was the same Prince months before he appeared on the View with a natural, then he'll still be the same Prince today and tomorrow, regardless if he shaves all his hair off, wears an afro, wears his hair straightened. However he chooses to wear it, is fine with me.

At the end of the day in the words of India Arie, the way I see it "Prince is not his hair". As always, 1725Stopp, you always present an amazing post.

I dont know if its that deep really

I believe from reading a lot of comments from the thread that featured Andy & Prince on the video set with his hair less straightened most fans loved the whole look

how he came out on the View gave those same fans a different reaction. If he came out looking exactly like he did on that video set, it would not have gotten the same reaction. from reading and my own reaction, Prince just didnt look put together, he looked 'plain' and not styled

from the beginning of his career till now Prince was know for his image and music, the mix match of clothing and the plainess to his afro 2 me was a throw off

It reminds me of a conversation I had with a few ladies who decided to cut their hair short and the reason why, it the reason was just tired. I told one of them just because you cut your hair short doesnt mean you dont have to do anything, you dont just wake up in the morning and go. Men with short hair dont do that, why should u feel you dont have to brush or comb, not try different natural looks with it, you went from looking with it to looking plain and like your just letting yourself go

That was my reaction to the Views Prince and afro, whereas the Prince of the video shoot was still the Prince Ive always been accustomed to. Styled hair loved the shades the textures of the clothing the matching of colors etc

on the view he really looked like he just woke up and threw on what ever and walked out the door

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Wow, after reading your post, I asked myself if I owe apologies to the OP of this thread. Maybe I should have given him/her a chance to explain their point. But I must warn you that the topic of Prince and race, is a very touchy one around here, and often gets shot down with a quickness.

You have to walk a thin line when daring to discuss Prince and race, , as it seems to be an uncomfortable topic, where some would rather dismiss it altogether. Now about Prince showing up on The View wearing his natural born, textured hair vs permed/relaxed hair, that so many fans were used to seeing, the afro hairdo that he presented on The View surprised many, when they saw him.

For many Prince's more straightened hairdos were more accepting by his multiracial fan base, because quite frankly, I believe most were used to society's dictated standard of beauty, which usually dictates/presents as a European standard of beauty. Not just in America, but throughout the globe, whether it's the texture of hair or the skin tone or size. That in and of itself is an uncomfortable truth, but it's truth regardless.

His hair, to many, worn in a straightened texture, became a part of his signature/image. The 'Pretty Man' appearance, the lighter skin, the sexy, enticing, fantasized image, that many of his female fans embraced, because society conditioned most to believe, those are the qualities acceptable as beauty and sexy ( The Pretty Man reference, is something many in the Black community know exactly what I'm referring to, but too often an uncomfortable topic in our community to talk about among ourselves as well, because it plays on the 'light vs dark' topic, that has been an issue within the Black community since the days of slavery, so you have to tread lightly when discussing it. I'm sure I'll probably catch hell for saying this, but that would be nothing unusual around here. ).

Anyway, besides Prince being an amazing, creative, skilled musician/artist, and performer, that image he presented of himself, to many is attached to society's standard of beauty. So I know what you mean in your post when you mentioned, James Brown, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, etc., at one time perming their hair as well. Let's not forget those Black artists, prior to the days of JB, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, as we take a step back in the 50s to the DooWop era, of black male singers/groups, who used to basically 'wax or 'conk' their hair to have a more accepting, appealing straightened, 'pretty boy/man' look. It all ties in.

So the reaction from many when they saw Prince wearing a 'natural' after all these years, doesn't surprise me. They were so used to seeing a man of a different image, they had grown used to, even to the point where some who are not familiar with that type of natural hair, accusing him of wearing a wig or hoping it's just 'temporary', because they're probably so afraid they will lose the fantasized image of Prince with straightened hair, they've embraced for so long.

Although many embraced Prince's afro, when reading between the lines of some of the nasty comments on this site and others about it, the other day, some immediately associated his natural texture of hair as being 'unatttractive' immediately, yet isn't that what society have taught some of them? That, that type of hair is not considered 'a standard of beauty? I wonder sometimes if people read between the lines of their comments and don't recognize their own hidden prejudices behind it.

For some who claimed they didn't like his afro, because it 'wasn't shaped right', well, some may be honest about that, but some may be using that as an excuse, to not openly admit that they rather his hair stay straightened, to maintain their fantasized, sexy image they've created of him for themselves, and now with him wearing his hair natural, they feel like they've been robbed of that.

For all the fans know, Prince may wear his hair different during the Chicago shows. He may wear it in an afro one day, blow it out the next, and wear it differently, but I don't think it is fair to judge him on his hair. It won't take anything away from his talent/skills as a musician or his character as a person. If he was the same Prince months before he appeared on the View with a natural, then he'll still be the same Prince today and tomorrow, regardless if he shaves all his hair off, wears an afro, wears his hair straightened. However he chooses to wear it, is fine with me.

At the end of the day in the words of India Arie, the way I see it "Prince is not his hair". As always, 1725Stopp, you always present an amazing post.

I dont know if its that deep really

I believe from reading a lot of comments from the thread that featured Andy & Prince on the video set with his hair less straightened most fans loved the whole look

how he came out on the View gave those same fans a different reaction. If he came out looking exactly like he did on that video set, it would not have gotten the same reaction. from reading and my own reaction, Prince just didnt look put together, he looked 'plain' and not styled

from the beginning of his career till now Prince was know for his image and music, the mix match of clothing and the plainess to his afro 2 me was a throw off

It reminds me of a conversation I had with a few ladies who decided to cut their hair short and the reason why, it the reason was just tired. I told one of them just because you cut your hair short doesnt mean you dont have to do anything, you dont just wake up in the morning and go. Men with short hair dont do that, why should u feel you dont have to brush or comb, not try different natural looks with it, you went from looking with it to looking plain and like your just letting yourself go

That was my reaction to the Views Prince and afro, whereas the Prince of the video shoot was still the Prince Ive always been accustomed to. Styled hair loved the shades the textures of the clothing the matching of colors etc

on the view he really looked like he just woke up and threw on what ever and walked out the door

Ok, but that's the thing, can the man have a few hairs out of place? I know what you mean about the image of perfection he always displayed to many, when it comes to his appearance,, but I think some folks forget, he can't be perfect all the time. He is human and can have a few hairs out of place. During his early days of performing, his hair was all over the place, every strand wasn't always in place, and that didn't seem to bother anyone.

In the pic of him and Andy, with his hair in a 'fro, it was a pic, not seen close up on tv, so a few hairs could have been out of place, as well, and may not have been as visible, because the background in the pic is a good camouflage, so we don't really know. Regardless, whether some were complaining that it could have been 'shaped' better, okay, I could take that as an honest opinion/complaint, but you know as well as I do, some fans will have a problem with him wearing his hair in its natural texture and in an afro. Let's not cover that fact up with ice cream and cake, and you know exactly what I mean.

I thought Prince was cute as hell with the afro during the "For You" era but he looks horrible with one now. I don't know if he still no longer eats meat but his face is too narrow now and it looks horrible on him. Do I prefer Prince with straight hair though? Yes, I always have. It's one of the things that has made him look more unique than most other artists. It just looks more natural to his natural gay self, especially the "I Wanna Be Your Lover" hair. That bitch was slingin' that hair back then! But no, the "I Wanna Be Your Lover" hair wouldn't look good on him nowadays either.

I just like straight hair better on Prince anyway. Nothing to do with race. Hell, he looks his natural gay self with straight hair. Although with Prince, he's like the queen in "The Birdcage". You could dress him up as butch as you wanted to and he'd STILL be fish as hell.

2elijah said:

Wow, I never knew that if a person wears their hair in an Afro, it is suppose to measure how black they are? What does that say about White/Hispanics or other people who wear their hair in afros or dreds? To the OP would you ask the same question? I have seen White and Hispanic musicians with dreds. It never crossed my mind they were trying to be Black.

Prince had that natural hair texture from the time he was born. It has nothing to do with his talent/skills as a musician.

Exactly. White people can dye, perm, and do anything they want to with their hair to make it look better but black people can't?

vainandy said:

I thought Prince was cute as hell with the afro during the "For You" era but he looks horrible with one now. I don't know if he still no longer eats meat but his face is too narrow now and it looks horrible on him. Do I prefer Prince with straight hair though? Yes, I always have. It's one of the things that has made him look more unique than most other artists. It just looks more natural to his natural gay self, especially the "I Wanna Be Your Lover" hair. That bitch was slingin' that hair back then! But no, the "I Wanna Be Your Lover" hair wouldn't look good on him nowadays either.

I just like straight hair better on Prince anyway. Nothing to do with race. Hell, he looks his natural gay self with straight hair. Although with Prince, he's like the queen in "The Birdcage". You could dress him up as butch as you wanted to and he'd STILL be fish as hell.

lol u made my day

for short hair I love his Parade look

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I dont know if its that deep really

I believe from reading a lot of comments from the thread that featured Andy & Prince on the video set with his hair less straightened most fans loved the whole look

how he came out on the View gave those same fans a different reaction. If he came out looking exactly like he did on that video set, it would not have gotten the same reaction. from reading and my own reaction, Prince just didnt look put together, he looked 'plain' and not styled

from the beginning of his career till now Prince was know for his image and music, the mix match of clothing and the plainess to his afro 2 me was a throw off

It reminds me of a conversation I had with a few ladies who decided to cut their hair short and the reason why, it the reason was just tired. I told one of them just because you cut your hair short doesnt mean you dont have to do anything, you dont just wake up in the morning and go. Men with short hair dont do that, why should u feel you dont have to brush or comb, not try different natural looks with it, you went from looking with it to looking plain and like your just letting yourself go

That was my reaction to the Views Prince and afro, whereas the Prince of the video shoot was still the Prince Ive always been accustomed to. Styled hair loved the shades the textures of the clothing the matching of colors etc

on the view he really looked like he just woke up and threw on what ever and walked out the door

Ok, but that's the thing, can the man have a few hairs out of place? I know what you mean about the image of perfection he always displayed to many, when it comes to his appearance,, but I think some folks forget, he can't be perfect all the time. He is human and can have a few hairs out of place. During his early days of performing, his hair was all over the place, every strand wasn't always in place, and that didn't seem to bother anyone.

In the pic of him and Andy, with his hair in a 'fro, it was a pic, not seen close up on tv, so a few hairs could have been out of place, as well, and may not have been as visible, because the background in the pic is a good camouflage, so we don't really know. Regardless, whether some were complaining that it could have been 'shaped' better, okay, I could take that as an honest opinion/complaint, but you know as well as I do, some fans will have a problem with him wearing his hair in its natural texture and in an afro. Let's not cover that fact up with ice cream and cake, and you know exactly what I mean.

lol, we are dealing with stardom and even Prince till this day has put the word out that his image still means a lot. there was a show he played I think at first ave where he made them turn the lights out or keep it dark, cause he knew he wasnt looking as fab as he wanted to

But in those early days like Dirty Mind & Controversy his look was supposed to be wild he was in his New Wave faze which is why he didnt get flax for it

In our society where there are shows like Joan Rivers that rate stars and their looks, he cant any kond of wayt, but again he is someone who is very much into appearance, thats his thing. Whoever styled him if there is someone, should have 'their pay docked lol As a general fan If I saw him on the way looking like that I would have pulled him aside. If he was just in the studio, I would give him a pass to have a few hairs out of place mx n match clothing but your stepping out on the View

Ive even read of band rehearsals where Prince was described as being dressed head 2 toe

If you remember the image look at the pix of him at the 2006 Brit Award show rehearsal, youd swear he was performing for the actual show

In order for that View afro to work he cant dress as he has before, he will have to dress really simple very simple because his whoredrobe requires more flare

Even looking at the pic u posted of Andy & Betty their afros were sweat

vitriol said:

2elijah said: Although many embraced Prince's afro, when reading between the lines of some of the nasty comments on this site and others about it, the other day, some immediately associated his natural texture of hair as being 'unattractive' immediately, yet isn't that what society have taught some of them? That, that type of hair is not considered 'a standard of beauty? I wonder sometimes if people read between the lines of their comments and don't recognize their own hidden prejudices behind it. For some who claimed they didn't like his afro, because it 'wasn't shaped right', well, some may be honest about that, but some may be using that as an excuse, to not openly admit that they rather his hair stay straightened, to maintain their fantasized, sexy image they've created of him for themselves, and now with him wearing his hair natural, they feel like they've been robbed of that.

*

Frist, thanks for the kind words. You are really highlighting my point that often many people have sensibilities, preferences, tastes, likes, and dislikes and do not know how or why they formed them or that they are rooted in certain cultural notions about race. For instance, when we are children, adults (our parents and other community adults) pass to us their sensibilities and notions of life, and in many cases the adults don’t even realize they are doing it. Once, I was getting my pre-K grandnephew from school, and the teacher said to me in a glowing voice: “We are so happy to have Tay in our class. He is our little gentleman; all the light-skin girls just love him, and you know that’s something!” To the people who think I may be lying, most of the African Americans on this site will know that you can’t make this stuff up. Now, while I was horrified at the statement, the teacher stood their glowing, just beaming with joy that Tay was something of value because the light-skin girls like him. And, of course, Tay is just standing there smiling because he is being complimented. He’s four; he doesn’t know any better. In the past, I would have gone off, but I took one look at this caramel toned woman wearing blue contacts with blond and red streaks in her hair, realized that she is drowning in her own self-hate, and said, “Well, we try to teach Tay to be nice to everybody and to be thankful that anyone appreciates and returns his kindness.” And, then, I got as far from that woman as I could.

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So, in most cases, people have prejudices and don’t know they have them. And you and I are not saying that it makes them bad people. But, especially for whites, who often exist as the majority, they almost never are forced to ask or analyze how or why they feel a certain way about aesthetics because they are surround by people with the same general aesthetic tastes. They don’t usually experience what W. E. B. DuBois termed as “Double Consciousness,” which is the notion of always viewing or comparing oneself through the eyes of a ruling culture that has an ingrained or historically disseminated low opinion of you. This is, essentially, what “crossing over” is all about. Yes, it’s about making more money, but the notion that only by crossing over can one make more money and purchase a certain cultural status is innately about race. As J. T. Matthews of the Five Heartbeats states, “A crossover ain’t nothing but a double cross.” And, Eddie King, Jr., adds, “Why are niggers always crossing over? You never see them crossing over to us.” So when most whites and even African people say, I like Prince more with straight hair, while I don’t think it is their intent to perpetuate white supremacist notions, I do find it odd that they don’t realize how much of their preference is influenced by their cultural aesthetics, which, in some sense, though they may not mean to do, marginalizes if not denounces African aesthetics.

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vainandy said: Do I prefer Prince with straight hair though? Yes, I always have. It's one of the things that has made him look more unique than most other artists. It just looks more natural to his natural gay self, especially the "I Wanna Be Your Lover" hair. That bitch was slingin' that hair back then! But no, the "I Wanna Be Your Lover" hair wouldn't look good on him nowadays either. I just like straight hair better on Prince anyway. Nothing to do with race. Hell, he looks his natural gay self with straight hair. Although with Prince, he's like the queen in "The Birdcage". You could dress him up as butch as you wanted to and he'd STILL be fish as hell.

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First, while I usually disagree with your posts, they are mostly funny, not malicious, and often insightful. Second, in a sense you are making my point about the notion that Prince has different fans that have come to love him for different reasons. But, I have two disagreements with your post. To say that “It just looks more natural to his natural gay self” is to say that an African American man with his naturally wooly hair would look/appear unnatural. And, more specifically, your statement also implies that somehow African Americans don’t look natural in their natural African state. (I’m not saying that you were intending to say this, but this is what your words imply.) Whether or not he looks his natural gay self can be debated because, of course, some of us don’t think that he’s gay, but it seems that you are looking or perceiving Prince so much through your own gay lens or perception of the world—in the same way that I have a hetero lens or perception of the world—that, like some whites who can only perceive of things from a Eurocentric perspective, you seemingly can only see him as being natural or proper when he appears more effeminate. And my question is, “why can’t he be naturally effeminate with a ‘fro?,” especially since some of the sexiest sisters I’ve ever seen are those with low haircuts who are sexy because they are physically beautiful and are also comfortable in their own skin.

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vainandy said: White people can dye, perm, and do anything they want to with their hair to make it look better but black people can't?

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My only concern with your question is that you are seemingly ignoring the socio-historical context that caused African Americans to begin straightening their hair. Madam C. J. Walker—whom I wish people would stop presenting as a hero during Black History Month—became the first millionaire because she was able to exploit black self-hatred because African Americans have spent centuries in America being told that they are inferior because of their African traits, which, of course, includes their wooly hair. (Never mind that Jesus has wooly hair, but that’s a different debate for a different time.) So, on the surface of your question, yes, anybody has the right to experiment with their physical aesthetics for no other reason than just do something different. But, I do think that it is irresponsible not to acknowledge or to minimize the socio-historical context of why so many African Americans straighten their hair because it makes it difficult to address very real and lingering issues of black self-hatred as well as unrecognized prejudices that some whites may have.

1725topp said:

My only concern with your question is that you are seemingly ignoring the socio-historical context that caused African Americans to begin straightening their hair. Madam C. J. Walker—whom I wish people would stop presenting as a hero during Black History Month—became the first millionaire because she was able to exploit black self-hatred because African Americans have spent centuries in America being told that they are inferior because of their African traits, which, of course, includes their wooly hair. (Never mind that Jesus has wooly hair, but that’s a different debate for a different time.) So, on the surface of your question, yes, anybody has the right to experiment with their physical aesthetics for no other reason than just do something different. But, I do think that it is irresponsible not to acknowledge or to minimize the socio-historical context of why so many African Americans straighten their hair because it makes it difficult to address very real and lingering issues of black self-hatred as well as unrecognized prejudices that some whites may have.

Madame CJ Walker didn't cause blacks to begin straigtening their hair. If you want to blame someone for encouraging straightening as an expression of self-hatred, blame slavemasters who had house slaves use actual clothing irons to press their hair long before Walker came on the scene because they didn't want to see "slave hair" in the house. Workers had to cover their hair or straighten it.

Even so, that doesn't mean that's why blacks continued to do it in Walker's era or even now. To suggest that "socio-historical" context, as you say, is stagnant and one-dimensional after all these generations is narrow-minded. There's no reason to keep suggesting contemporary people are under the same mindset -- especially since the 70s intervened when a completely different cultural mindset was preached. There are a lot of principles at work when it comes to hair straightening today.