This makes me think of some comments that Josh Groban (yes, really) made regarding Autotune: http://youtu.be/pUpE8TqxqUw?t=24m13s

In brief, it's OK when it's used for a genuine musical purpose, but it's not cool when it's an eratz stand-in for the real thing.

[Edited 9/20/12 4:04am]

thebanishedone said:

VainAndy songs like When Doves Cry ,Little Red Corvette ,1999,Kiss ,777-9311,Nasty Girl dont have acoustic druns and i don't hear any power lacking Whole Purple Rain album is Linn only

I believe certain songs do have live drums underneath, especially Purple Rain, the live renditions-Let's Go Crazy I Would Die 4 U Baby I'm a Star, and Computer Blue live-studio, Bobby Z did the linn programing but also played live drums

Darling Nikki I believe is live drums as well -Lisa Coleman said that was Prince wildness

I know that the kick drum on "Darling Nikki" was a drum machine at the very least. It was stated in one of the interviews at the time.

Prince hardly used the layering technique on every song at the time. The most obvious example of it would be "Lady Cab Driver" - and it works really well on it - but it's hardly like it applies to every one of his songs.

Sorry Vainandy, I know what you're getting at, but it's complete horseshit that drum machines would always sound weak without an acoustic drum kit layered with them.

thebanishedone said:

VainAndy songs like When Doves Cry ,Little Red Corvette ,1999,Kiss ,777-9311,Nasty Girl dont have acoustic druns and i don't hear any power lacking Whole Purple Rain album is Linn only

"When Doves Cry" is one song. It's not like every song he had at the time was lacking in drums and bass at the time. And even it has a sound that is pleasurable without them. It's hard to explain why but that's one of the things that truly makes someone an artist if they can make a song actually sound good without using the usual necessary things that make songs sound good.

As for the song "1999", I definitely hear a steady drum pounding hard underneath it throughout the whole song. If it's not a real drum, then it sounds damn close. I'm not a musician, nor do I play any instruments so no, I don't know exactly what things are used on these songs. All I can do is speculate as to what instruments are there from listening by ear but I definitely know the difference between hard and soft and power.

Folks like to throw Prince up as an example when argueing their case with people who don't like current artists because of their use of drum machines. It's like throwing all drum machines into one category and acting as if they all sound alike. The difference is sound. Whatever he was doing back then and however he was doing it, sounded good. It had a sound that was slightly different which made it unique, but didn't stray too far from the sound of the real thing. House music is a genre that used a lot of drum machines but they don't sound like the ones used today. They have a much harder pound to them. I never had a problem with drum machines until shit hop came along. Whatever type they're using and however they're using them, they sound weak, extremely fake and far from the real thing, and barely tap with no rhythm whatsoever. In other words, no ass shakability to them whatsoever. I guess I'll just break it all the way down to you. If the drum machines, synths, or anything else in the music resembles shit hop or anything that came from shit hop, in even the slightest fraction of a way, I absolutely despise it. Whatever types they are using or the way they are using them, sound absolutely weak and horrible.

From what I know about the 1999 sessions was he relied heavily on the linn drum machine, did most of the album in his home studio and did most of it alone. When it came to live performance, again he was somewhat of a pioneer, he had the linn sound linked to a drum kit so when bobby hit it made the linn sound. His beats in those days were fantastic, a fact I think we're forgetting. The rhythms on 1999, when doves cry are what smokey Robinson meant when he said "his rhythms come from the darkest Africa" or what Miles meant when he said "when prince makes love he doesn't hear bolero, he hears drums n shit". Also, the drum track to Little Red Corvette is one of my absolute all time favorites by anyone, simple yet perfect for the song, that's the thing, everything was synergistic in those days, everything worked so damned well together it was ridiculous.

the big thing with the linn machine was the atmosphere it helped to create. 1999 created an entire artistic universe and worldview of the artist, just like Elvis' sun sessions or bruce's best work. And by that I mean the linn helped to create a colder, lonelier world without outside influences. I'm speaking on the whole, you can here the artist and his very own vision on songs like automatic, something in the water, lady cab driver. Our man had plenty of issues as any artist of his caliber does and they come through here better then they ever would again. Post-PR his world burst open and we lost a lot of that, before 1999 he was approaching this peak. The linn machines were great for that but that's just my opinion. He's a different man today, his use will be different and as listeners we're different too, the synth sounds he helped to invent are old hat now and nothing new.

vainandy said:

thebanishedone said:

VainAndy songs like When Doves Cry ,Little Red Corvette ,1999,Kiss ,777-9311,Nasty Girl dont have acoustic druns and i don't hear any power lacking Whole Purple Rain album is Linn only

"When Doves Cry" is one song. It's not like every song he had at the time was lacking in drums and bass at the time. And even it has a sound that is pleasurable without them. It's hard to explain why but that's one of the things that truly makes someone an artist if they can make a song actually sound good without using the usual necessary things that make songs sound good.

As for the song "1999", I definitely hear a steady drum pounding hard underneath it throughout the whole song. If it's not a real drum, then it sounds damn close. I'm not a musician, nor do I play any instruments so no, I don't know exactly what things are used on these songs. All I can do is speculate as to what instruments are there from listening by ear but I definitely know the difference between hard and soft and power.

Folks like to throw Prince up as an example when argueing their case with people who don't like current artists because of their use of drum machines. It's like throwing all drum machines into one category and acting as if they all sound alike. The difference is sound. Whatever he was doing back then and however he was doing it, sounded good. It had a sound that was slightly different which made it unique, but didn't stray too far from the sound of the real thing. House music is a genre that used a lot of drum machines but they don't sound like the ones used today. They have a much harder pound to them. I never had a problem with drum machines until shit hop came along. Whatever type they're using and however they're using them, they sound weak, extremely fake and far from the real thing, and barely tap with no rhythm whatsoever. In other words, no ass shakability to them whatsoever. I guess I'll just break it all the way down to you. If the drum machines, synths, or anything else in the music resembles shit hop or anything that came from shit hop, in even the slightest fraction of a way, I absolutely despise it. Whatever types they are using or the way they are using them, sound absolutely weak and horrible.

Pretty sure that Lady Cab Driver and International Lover are the only songs on 1999 that use live drumming.

Spinlight said:

vainandy said:

"When Doves Cry" is one song. It's not like every song he had at the time was lacking in drums and bass at the time. And even it has a sound that is pleasurable without them. It's hard to explain why but that's one of the things that truly makes someone an artist if they can make a song actually sound good without using the usual necessary things that make songs sound good.

As for the song "1999", I definitely hear a steady drum pounding hard underneath it throughout the whole song. If it's not a real drum, then it sounds damn close. I'm not a musician, nor do I play any instruments so no, I don't know exactly what things are used on these songs. All I can do is speculate as to what instruments are there from listening by ear but I definitely know the difference between hard and soft and power.

Folks like to throw Prince up as an example when argueing their case with people who don't like current artists because of their use of drum machines. It's like throwing all drum machines into one category and acting as if they all sound alike. The difference is sound. Whatever he was doing back then and however he was doing it, sounded good. It had a sound that was slightly different which made it unique, but didn't stray too far from the sound of the real thing. House music is a genre that used a lot of drum machines but they don't sound like the ones used today. They have a much harder pound to them. I never had a problem with drum machines until shit hop came along. Whatever type they're using and however they're using them, they sound weak, extremely fake and far from the real thing, and barely tap with no rhythm whatsoever. In other words, no ass shakability to them whatsoever. I guess I'll just break it all the way down to you. If the drum machines, synths, or anything else in the music resembles shit hop or anything that came from shit hop, in even the slightest fraction of a way, I absolutely despise it. Whatever types they are using or the way they are using them, sound absolutely weak and horrible.

Pretty sure that Lady Cab Driver and International Lover are the only songs on 1999 that use live drumming.

ya, and that he played on them too, thus verifying my ideas. Dez provided a classic guitar solo, the girls gave some great vocals but by and large it was truly a one man thing.

petes2 said:

thebanishedone said:

petes2 said:

the big thing with the linn machine was the atmosphere it helped to create. 1999 created an entire artistic universe and worldview of the artist, just like Elvis' sun sessions or bruce's best work. And by that I mean the linn helped to create a colder, lonelier world without outside influences. I'm speaking on the whole, you can here the artist and his very own vision on songs like automatic, something in the water, lady cab driver. Our man had plenty of issues as any artist of his caliber does and they come through here better then they ever would again. Post-PR his world burst open and we lost a lot of that, before 1999 he was approaching this peak. The linn machines were great for that but that's just my opinion. He's a different man today, his use will be different and as listeners we're different too, the synth sounds he helped to invent are old hat now and nothing new.

wow ,great post man

thank, and I mean every word of that, the 1999 album to my 14 year old mind, from the cover to the music was Prince's purest manifestation of his artistic vision ever. A great artist is best (and usually not as commercial) in those moments.