After a Labor Day weekend spent playing nearly everything in my Princely collection, I got to wondering IF in fact "The Vault" does really exist any more. It seems like Warner Bros. would stop rehashing greatest hits compilations (I can think of four mainstream ones) and get on with letting some of the vault material out. So I have a few questions to ponder and would appreciate any input from you guys:

1.) Has the vault already been tapped and now empty?

2.) Who owns the vault - Prince, Warner Bros., or ???

3.) Should anything happen to Prince, what becomes of the vault material?

4.) Is there a NEW vault that Prince has been developing in recent years, since he no longer releases an album a year?

Thoughts????

There is actually a physical vault in Paisley Park, but in general people refer to "the vault" as Prince's stock of unreleased audio and visual recordings.

There are hundreds of unreleased songs, and hundreds more uncirculating and unreleased, add to this the live shows he records and video projects, it's fair to say there is a huge amount of material still to see the light of day.

Prince owns it, it has nothing to do with WB. We don't know Prince's contingency plans for his legacy and unreleased music if and when he dies.

WB aren't rehashing anything, every hits compilation has either been part of Prince's contract or with his direct input.

Prince apparently still records regularly, so there is unreleased music from the past several years certainly.

FormerlyKnownAs said:

FormerlyKnownAs said:

After a Labor Day weekend spent playing nearly everything in my Princely collection, I got to wondering IF in fact "The Vault" does really exist any more. It seems like Warner Bros. would stop rehashing greatest hits compilations (I can think of four mainstream ones) and get on with letting some of the vault material out. So I have a few questions to ponder and would appreciate any input from you guys:

1.) Has the vault already been tapped and now empty?

2.) Who owns the vault - Prince, Warner Bros., or ???

3.) Should anything happen to Prince, what becomes of the vault material?

4.) Is there a NEW vault that Prince has been developing in recent years, since he no longer releases an album a year?

Thoughts????

There is definitely a physical vault or more... But, how could anyone possibly answer these questions except for Prince himself?!

erik319 said:

FormerlyKnownAs said:

After a Labor Day weekend spent playing nearly everything in my Princely collection, I got to wondering IF in fact "The Vault" does really exist any more. It seems like Warner Bros. would stop rehashing greatest hits compilations (I can think of four mainstream ones) and get on with letting some of the vault material out. So I have a few questions to ponder and would appreciate any input from you guys:

1.) Has the vault already been tapped and now empty?

2.) Who owns the vault - Prince, Warner Bros., or ???

3.) Should anything happen to Prince, what becomes of the vault material?

4.) Is there a NEW vault that Prince has been developing in recent years, since he no longer releases an album a year?

Thoughts????

I think that if you listened to all your Prince stuff & think there's nothing in the vault worth releasing, you need to upgrade your collection. I'd start by seeking out Workit 2.0 that'll give you a good idea if there's stuff left in the vault. And they're the tracks that are circulating. Who knows what else is stashed away in there...

Don't start with Work It 2.0. Start with something much, much smaller like Box O' Chocolates. there's just too much to digest on Work It. Plus you'll never make it past the 43rd instrumental from 1978.

NouveauDance said:

There is actually a physical vault in Paisley Park, but in general people refer to "the vault" as Prince's stock of unreleased audio and visual recordings.

There are hundreds of unreleased songs, and hundreds more uncirculating and unreleased, add to this the live shows he records and video projects, it's fair to say there is a huge amount of material still to see the light of day.

Prince owns it, it has nothing to do with WB. We don't know Prince's contingency plans for his legacy and unreleased music if and when he dies.

WB aren't rehashing anything, every hits compilation has either been part of Prince's contract or with his direct input.

Prince apparently still records regularly, so there is unreleased music from the past several years certainly.

^ That exactly.

It also seems that Prince doesn't record "concerts" but "every concert", as well as every rehearsal, and that most if not all the shows are pro-shot.

errant said:

erik319 said:

FormerlyKnownAs said: I think that if you listened to all your Prince stuff & think there's nothing in the vault worth releasing, you need to upgrade your collection. I'd start by seeking out Workit 2.0 that'll give you a good idea if there's stuff left in the vault. And they're the tracks that are circulating. Who knows what else is stashed away in there...

Don't start with Work It 2.0. Start with something much, much smaller like Box O' Chocolates. there's just too much to digest on Work It. Plus you'll never make it past the 43rd instrumental from 1978.

hehe. It was my shortcut way of saying, 'Look, there's fecking hundreds of unreleased tracks in the vault, and here's proof'.

Yeah, he records his concerts, rehearsals, aftershows, records videos for albums tracks that never see the light of day, records videos for protege's that never see the light of day, and of course there are the outtakes. Whether they be outtakes from his officially released albums, or tracks that he just casually records at a whim, or tracks that he records for other people that just don't released.

So yeah, it's pretty obvious the man has alotta sh*t in his vault.

U gotta think of his video recordings as his own personal home videos. Why release them if he's really only recording them for his own personal pleasure? Maybe show them 2 a current girlfriend or some of his homies, U know? The average Joe will make home movies or videos 4 his own personal pleasure and show them 2 family & friends & not necessarily want 2 post them on YouTube 4 the world 2 see.

Prince is probably thinking on that level with most of the stuff he records( video/audio). Also he probably has an intention 2 release something but then he gets sidetracked with something else and just stashes it in his Vault. After U've been doing that for years & years, U've got a Vault-load stuff that U've accumilated.

But I guarantee that the majority of that stuff will never see the light of day. He'll probably order most of it destroyed when he passes because he's in a different place now, and alot of that older stuff was recorded when he was different person. Do U seriously think he'll ever release stuff like "Vibrator"? or "Good Dick and A Job"? Probably not. We'll see "Roadhouse Garden" and "Adonis and Bathsheba" before we ever see stuff like that!!!

The majority of his Vault just will never be released. That's one of the many reasons why I collect bootlegs, so I can have my own "Vault"...

FormerlyKnownAs said:

After a Labor Day weekend spent playing nearly everything in my Princely collection, I got to wondering IF in fact "The Vault" does really exist any more. It seems like Warner Bros. would stop rehashing greatest hits compilations (I can think of four mainstream ones) and get on with letting some of the vault material out. So I have a few questions to ponder and would appreciate any input from you guys:

1.) Has the vault already been tapped and now empty?

2.) Who owns the vault - Prince, Warner Bros., or ???

3.) Should anything happen to Prince, what becomes of the vault material?

4.) Is there a NEW vault that Prince has been developing in recent years, since he no longer releases an album a year?

Thoughts????

Really? This is the kind of question I expect from somebody who owns Purple Rain, 1999, and maybe Diamonds And Pearls, and maybe one or two more. And for the person saying there are 100's of songs in there....there are likely at least 2,000. If you simply think of all the things that have leaked, and all the things that have not leaked are likely much more.

Of the total of songs ever recorded by Prince we have only heard (including boots) about 50% (or even less) of the total recorded catalog.

Have we heard the best 50% though? probably.

Will we ever hear the other 50%? not all of it, but hopefully another 25% will get out before I'magettin.

NouveauDance said:

KingSausage said:

NouveauDance said:

There is actually a physical vault in Paisley Park, but in general people refer to "the vault" as Prince's stock of unreleased audio and visual recordings.

There are hundreds of unreleased songs, and hundreds more uncirculating and unreleased, add to this the live shows he records and video projects, it's fair to say there is a huge amount of material still to see the light of day.

Prince owns it, it has nothing to do with WB. We don't know Prince's contingency plans for his legacy and unreleased music if and when he dies.

WB aren't rehashing anything, every hits compilation has either been part of Prince's contract or with his direct input.

Prince apparently still records regularly, so there is unreleased music from the past several years certainly.

Wait..."IF" he dies?! Holy shit. Is that what Captain Crunch and soy milk does for you?

KingSausage said:

Wait..."IF" he dies?! Holy shit. Is that what Captain Crunch and soy milk does for you?

You know what I meant!

erik319 said:

FormerlyKnownAs said:

After a Labor Day weekend spent playing nearly everything in my Princely collection, I got to wondering IF in fact "The Vault" does really exist any more. It seems like Warner Bros. would stop rehashing greatest hits compilations (I can think of four mainstream ones) and get on with letting some of the vault material out. So I have a few questions to ponder and would appreciate any input from you guys:

1.) Has the vault already been tapped and now empty?

2.) Who owns the vault - Prince, Warner Bros., or ???

3.) Should anything happen to Prince, what becomes of the vault material?

4.) Is there a NEW vault that Prince has been developing in recent years, since he no longer releases an album a year?

Thoughts????

I think that if you listened to all your Prince stuff & think there's nothing in the vault worth releasing, you need to upgrade your collection. I'd start by seeking out Workit 2.0 that'll give you a good idea if there's stuff left in the vault. And they're the tracks that are circulating. Who knows what else is stashed away in there...

I think you better re-read what I wrote. I never said there's nothing in the vault worth releasing. What I meant by my most was simply to say that we don't seem to hear of the mysterious vault any more - hence I was wondering if there was anything left. If so, RELEASE IT....

stillwaiting said:

FormerlyKnownAs said:

After a Labor Day weekend spent playing nearly everything in my Princely collection, I got to wondering IF in fact "The Vault" does really exist any more. It seems like Warner Bros. would stop rehashing greatest hits compilations (I can think of four mainstream ones) and get on with letting some of the vault material out. So I have a few questions to ponder and would appreciate any input from you guys:

1.) Has the vault already been tapped and now empty?

2.) Who owns the vault - Prince, Warner Bros., or ???

3.) Should anything happen to Prince, what becomes of the vault material?

4.) Is there a NEW vault that Prince has been developing in recent years, since he no longer releases an album a year?

Thoughts????

Really? This is the kind of question I expect from somebody who owns Purple Rain, 1999, and maybe Diamonds And Pearls, and maybe one or two more. And for the person saying there are 100's of songs in there....there are likely at least 2,000. If you simply think of all the things that have leaked, and all the things that have not leaked are likely much more.

I have my "fair share" of some 200+ bootlegs.... It's just that in recent years, it seems hard to obtain them, and the majority of mine are from the Lovesexy era. Why not release material, new or not, so that "bootlegs" are not necessary of even a forbidden concept? If there is a vault, I'd like to hear some things from it, as a longtime fan, so as that way - when I am, say, 80 - I don't break a hip trying to dance to it when it DOES see the light of day.

KingSausage said:

NouveauDance said:

There is actually a physical vault in Paisley Park, but in general people refer to "the vault" as Prince's stock of unreleased audio and visual recordings.

There are hundreds of unreleased songs, and hundreds more uncirculating and unreleased, add to this the live shows he records and video projects, it's fair to say there is a huge amount of material still to see the light of day.

Prince owns it, it has nothing to do with WB. We don't know Prince's contingency plans for his legacy and unreleased music if and when he dies.

WB aren't rehashing anything, every hits compilation has either been part of Prince's contract or with his direct input.

Prince apparently still records regularly, so there is unreleased music from the past several years certainly.

Wait..."IF" he dies?! Holy shit. Is that what Captain Crunch and soy milk does for you?

No one knows, right? But put yourself in the shoes of MJ fans. I would hate to feel like that, when one day we turn on the news and hear the worst. Right?

stillwaiting said:

FormerlyKnownAs said:

After a Labor Day weekend spent playing nearly everything in my Princely collection, I got to wondering IF in fact "The Vault" does really exist any more. It seems like Warner Bros. would stop rehashing greatest hits compilations (I can think of four mainstream ones) and get on with letting some of the vault material out. So I have a few questions to ponder and would appreciate any input from you guys:

1.) Has the vault already been tapped and now empty?

2.) Who owns the vault - Prince, Warner Bros., or ???

3.) Should anything happen to Prince, what becomes of the vault material?

4.) Is there a NEW vault that Prince has been developing in recent years, since he no longer releases an album a year?

Thoughts????

Really? This is the kind of question I expect from somebody who owns Purple Rain, 1999, and maybe Diamonds And Pearls, and maybe one or two more. And for the person saying there are 100's of songs in there....there are likely at least 2,000. If you simply think of all the things that have leaked, and all the things that have not leaked are likely much more.

In the late 90s, I asked around PP about this the answer was they had 39 album completed with artwork, everything ready for release and he could release anything at anytime. But he had tons of songs finished that were not yet on albums guess was around 1000 and likely the album # would go up as he was always piecing stuff together. But all the reheasals, live shows everything like that was in the vault!!! The people that told me that made the live recordings sound so exciting, like that was the stuff. I'm still more interested in studio but they mentioned the live stuff with enthusiasm.

FormerlyKnownAs said:

I think you better re-read what I wrote. I never said there's nothing in the vault worth releasing. What I meant by my most was simply to say that we don't seem to hear of the mysterious vault any more - hence I was wondering if there was anything left. If so, RELEASE IT....

One thing that we know for certain is in the Vault. All the rerecordings when he was angry with WB! How can the Vault be dry when we still have some great stuff that leaked onto bootleg? Everything could not have leaked.

I don't understand the obsession with his vault. Every producer/artist has possibly a vault. George Michael/Elton John and everyone else has a vault. It'll contain his ideas, produced songs that he didn't like, soundbites/rehearsals etc...nothing is probably finalised and even if they are, I guess he keeps them for his own personal re-use/pleasure...and most of the stuff in the vault won't good, cause all the good stuff has already leaked from Prince.

The concept of Vault is totally flawed, and imagination of fans.

OzlemUcucu said:

I don't understand the obsession with his vault. Every producer/artist has possibly a vault. George Michael/Elton John and everyone else has a vault. It'll contain his ideas, produced songs that he didn't like, soundbites/rehearsals etc...nothing is probably finalised and even if they are, I guess he keeps them for his own personal re-use/pleasure...and most of the stuff in the vault won't good, cause all the good stuff has already leaked from Prince.

The concept of Vault is totally flawed, and imagination of fans.

Then it must also be the imagination of the musicians, engineers, producers, etc... who have discussed it.... Riiiiight!

I wonder... since many Prince fans these days don't care for a lot of his last releases over the past... well, whenever... and that's not all fans, mind you; some of us still like his stuff, even if he just poots into a microphone, we'll jump for joy!

Anyway, back to the vault. If Prince created so much back in the day, would he even have anything to do with it since so much of it were so sexually charged now that he is a JW? Would there be some that he would redo, which "may or may not" totally ruin it since some fans don't like his new sound/direction/influences? I don't know if this makes since, but I have been wondering about this in a while... since he redid the ExtraLoveable song, which we all know the original version had some racy lyrics. Hmmmm....

BigBen said:

I wonder... since many Prince fans these days don't care for a lot of his last releases over the past... well, whenever... and that's not all fans, mind you; some of us still like his stuff, even if he just poots into a microphone, we'll jump for joy!

Anyway, back to the vault. If Prince created so much back in the day, would he even have anything to do with it since so much of it were so sexually charged now that he is a JW? Would there be some that he would redo, which "may or may not" totally ruin it since some fans don't like his new sound/direction/influences? I don't know if this makes since, but I have been wondering about this in a while... since he redid the ExtraLoveable song, which we all know the original version had some racy lyrics. Hmmmm....

THANK YOU... Yes! Now THIS is the kind of stuff I was suspecting too.

^ Prince's stance on his past material, including lyrical content and themes is up for change - it has in the past!

OzlemUcucu said:

I don't understand the obsession with his vault. Every producer/artist has possibly a vault. George Michael/Elton John and everyone else has a vault. It'll contain his ideas, produced songs that he didn't like, soundbites/rehearsals etc...nothing is probably finalised and even if they are, I guess he keeps them for his own personal re-use/pleasure...and most of the stuff in the vault won't good, cause all the good stuff has already leaked from Prince.

The concept of Vault is totally flawed, and imagination of fans.

As we said above the "concept" of the Vault is very real, as is the actual physical vault in PP (and another in his home or something, IIRC? I'm sure someone knows this better than I and can put me straight on the actual number of physical/data stockpiles).

There are hundreds of circulating unreleased songs and alt. takes/versions, add to this the hundreds more that are known of (from studio logs, interviews etc, etc), unreleased video projects, and it's known he records almost every live show, AND add to all that the fact that knowledge of his recordings after WB is sketchy at best, so there could be, and probably is, many, many more from 1996 onwards right to the present that are unknown.

And lastly, it's pretty common knowledge that Prince has historically not usually demoed songs, but since he has the access and ability to record what he wants, when he wants, he does - and although there are undoubtedly unfinished tracks and actual demos, the vast majority of these songs, and certainly the vast, vast majority of ones we have heard and/or know of are FULL finished songs, not demos or sketches (although some of them circulating come from stages in production before the end result - a good example being The Line, which we all recently heard in a second much fuller and finished state).

You have to get past this big thing about this idea of a mythical Vault, this magical never ending labyrinth of unheard treasures - there are unreleased gems, but there are also stinkers and non-descript stuff, treading water, toss off ideas, botched and discarded projects, mis-steps, repeating himself etc - And sure, every artist with a few years under their belt has a stock of unreleased and unused material, no one said Prince was the only one - it's just it is a big part of his persona and appeal, that he records a lot, and a lot of the unreleased stuff can be heard by fans.

[Edited 9/9/12 14:31pm]

OzlemUcucu said:

djThunderfunk said:

OzlemUcucu said:

I don't understand the obsession with his vault. Every producer/artist has possibly a vault. George Michael/Elton John and everyone else has a vault. It'll contain his ideas, produced songs that he didn't like, soundbites/rehearsals etc...nothing is probably finalised and even if they are, I guess he keeps them for his own personal re-use/pleasure...and most of the stuff in the vault won't good, cause all the good stuff has already leaked from Prince.

The concept of Vault is totally flawed, and imagination of fans.

Then it must also be the imagination of the musicians, engineers, producers, etc... who have discussed it.... Riiiiight!

The definition of vault as the gloriest thing is coined by Prince. Those people were working for Prince, and he was their boss. He told them what he wanted them to hear/know.

If he wants to keep his personal stuff/music/sounds in the vault (folder) he's entitled to, and nobody suggested there is another SOTT in the vault.

Complete nonsense!

NouveauDance said:

^ Prince's stance on his past material, including lyrical content and themes is up for change - it has in the past!

OzlemUcucu said:

I don't understand the obsession with his vault. Every producer/artist has possibly a vault. George Michael/Elton John and everyone else has a vault. It'll contain his ideas, produced songs that he didn't like, soundbites/rehearsals etc...nothing is probably finalised and even if they are, I guess he keeps them for his own personal re-use/pleasure...and most of the stuff in the vault won't good, cause all the good stuff has already leaked from Prince.

The concept of Vault is totally flawed, and imagination of fans.

As we said above the "concept" of the Vault is very real, as is the actual physical vault in PP (and another in his home or something, IIRC? I'm sure someone knows this better than I and can put me straight on the actual number of physical/data stockpiles).

There are hundreds of circulating unreleased songs and alt. takes/versions, add to this the hundreds more that are known of (from studio logs, interviews etc, etc), unreleased video projects, and it's known he records almost every live show, AND add to all that the fact that knowledge of his recordings after WB is sketchy at best, so there could be, and probably is, many, many more from 1996 onwards right to the present that are unknown.

And lastly, it's pretty common knowledge that Prince has historically not usually demoed songs, but since he has the access and ability to record what he wants, when he wants, he does - and although there are undoubtedly unfinished tracks and actual demos, the vast majority of these songs, and certainly the vast, vast majority of ones we have heard and/or know of are FULL finished songs, not demos or sketches (although some of them circulating come from stages in production before the end result - a good example being The Line, which we all recently heard in a second much fuller and finished state).

You have to get past this big thing about this idea of a mythical Vault, this magical never ending labyrinth of unheard treasures - there are unreleased gems, but there are also stinkers and non-descript stuff, treading water, toss off ideas, botched and discarded projects, mis-steps, repeating himself etc - And sure, every artist with a few years under their belt has a stock of unreleased and unused material, no one said Prince was the only one - it's just it is a big part of his persona and appeal, that he records a lot, and a lot of the unreleased stuff can be heard by fans.

[Edited 9/9/12 14:31pm]

My problem is with the term "vault". As I said every artist, specially of Prince's calibre, will have all these things you outlined (tracks, demos etc. and a vault). The difference is, they don't make such a big fuss of it, and consequently don't exist in fans imagination/fantasy. I think it was coined as a PR trick, songs were leaked, and that is not a bad thing from the artist's point of view. Nowayds, lotta performers give songs as a free give away. Can't remember if it was common thing back then, when he manifested the idea of a "vault".

It makes no sense for an artist to keep the best art in the vault. As we witnessed he records his gigs, and watches them later, cause after 30 years he probably does not know anymore what the fuck he was doing on stage at times (he has a lyric monitor on stage after all, plus he announces next song is PR, then he sings another song).

There is not much hope in the vault. Best stuff is out there.

Well, we're on the same page then.

Prince and his team has undoubtedly made it one of his USPs that he has a quantity of unreleased material - this is something that goes way, way back, he's spoke about it in interviews in the 80s and it was certainly a topic of point during interviews in the 90s.

I don't see people saying the best stuff in the Vault, I do see them saying there's some great stuff in there that we'd like to hear in perfect quality, and other stuff we know about from the same time periods that could be just as good, and we'd like to hear that too.

NouveauDance said:

Well, we're on the same page then.

Prince and his team has undoubtedly made it one of his USPs that he has a quantity of unreleased material - this is something that goes way, way back, he's spoke about it in interviews in the 80s and it was certainly a topic of point during interviews in the 90s.

I don't see people saying the best stuff in the Vault, I do see them saying there's some great stuff in there that we'd like to hear in perfect quality, and other stuff we know about from the same time periods that could be just as good, and we'd like to hear that too.

I don't know how we gonna hear the great stuff in perfect quality, if the last two album he has released and thought were great stuff sound so miserably to the effect that two years later I still haven't listened to the album fully.

If there were great stuff in the vault, he probably shredded all of them, cause his definition of great and crap changed in the past years.

Honestly, I do believe the PR trick of a existing Vault is not working anymore in this century. It's lame idea. As for releasing good studio albums, Prince is ovah.

Here are my thoughts on the vault material:

1. Probably most of the stuff he recorded but didn't release while with WB has been bootlegged. It's well-known that various band members and staffers stole stuff and bootlegged it. I think that most of the unreleased stuff recorded from 1976 - 2000 got bootlegged one way or another, and we have it.

2. But after Prince left WB, the flow of unreleased recordings pretty much went out of existence. However, I do not think Prince stopped recording, and there's stuff that hasn't been released. I just think that for whatever reason, when he left WB he was able to stop the bootlegging of recorded material. Therefore, I think the vault is stocked with material that is mostly from 2001 until now. How much there is, who knows?

3. I believe but am not sure that Prince has tapes (audio and sometimes video) of almost every concert he's ever done. We know he used to (still does?) listen to the soundboard recordings of each show immediately after it, checking for mistakes or just grooving. Hopefully, he saved those tapes and will release some one day.

At one point P and Jimmy Jam and Terry were in talks of having P give them an albums-worth of tracks from the vault and letting them remix them and do whatever with plans to release it? Don't think it ever happened.