will respond 2 this later.

did u see post 113? thats the closest i've come so far 2 something close to what u r looking 4

1725topp said:

I understand your confusion and mild frustration, but everybody draws a line in the sand and says, “Here is the point of right and wrong for me,” and, often, where that line is placed is based as much on one’s personal, subjective issues as much as it is based on some ideology. Usually, the placement of that line is based on a combination of subjective issues and the ideology by which one chooses to live, and the person often modifies and moves that line throughout the reminder of one’s life. And my response to the initial placement of that line and the subsequent movements of that line is as long as their line in the sand doesn’t affect what I want to do, then I don’t see it as a problem. So, for whatever reason, his placement of his religious line and subsequent modifications and movements have not kept me from enjoying his art (studio or live) probably because I allow for more moral latitude. No one is perfect, and I know that you are not suggesting that Prince or anyone be perfect. But, as the Bible states, we all sin and fall short, and Prince’s playing the snippets of what he has deemed as songs too “sinful” to play is just his way of trying to have his cake and eat it too (I never understood the literal translation of this phrase since I feel that I should be able to eat my cake, but you know what I mean.).

*

I think, if I understand you correctly, you are most frustrated by his contradiction, and you see that contradiction as hypocrisy. I guess it doesn’t bother me as much because he has always been, on some level, contradictory. And, of course, his embracing a stricter adherence to Christianity doesn’t bother me as much, even if he contracts that as well. Again, dude is batshit crazy! I guess, for me, at the end of the day, there are enough songs that I love that him choosing not perform some doesn’t bother me. And, the changes that he makes in certain songs don’t destroy the meaning of feeling of the song for me.

*

As for not taking him seriously due to the “mix of Egyptology and JW ideas, and biblical stories of the Fall of man ect mixed in strongly with stories of the Banished Ones Digital Gardens and such,” I guess I’m just used to the manner in which all religions and ideologies intersect or overlap in some way. For instance, in my world literature class, my students must write a paper examining the significance of the similarities between “The Hymn to the Aton” and “Psalm 104.” They do not tell me that they are similar. We know that they are similar. I want them to explore and tell me what does it tells about life, humanity, art, or religion that two men living almost eight hundred years apart from different cultures and religions envision God and his power in an almost identical manner. Noah’s flood is found in “The Epic of Gilgamesh.” Cultural exchange has existed as long has humans have been on this planet so, again, I don’t find his mixing of items or narratives that relate to his ultimate narrative that unusual.

*

Finally, the only difference that I see between “Automatic” and “Mellow” is that I am assuming that the sex in “Mellow” represents sex under the umbrella of marriage. Of course, I am making this leap simply because TRC is supposed to reflect his JW beliefs. The Bible says no sex before marriage, but it also encourages deeply satisfying sex once married, as one scripture states, “A wife’s breasts are to be pleasing to a husband.” Amen! I may be splitting hairs or making an illogical connection or jump, but in this manner “Mellow” seems no more out of place or contradictory to me than Song of Solomon being in the Bible, and this is some sexually intense reading.

OldFriends4Sale said:

the part of him playing those snippets is not ego but it is that part of him that wants to play that music and it's him being mischievous, like at the Super B press conference when he asks 4 questions and when someone proceeds to ask he rips with his guitar into AnotherLoverH...

In bring his 'religious' ideals to this, playing snippets, if the song is so wrong why play with it. Like if you're not supposed to have sex out of marriage then why the heavy petting, or sextexting, phonesex I would think in the context of a denomination that will excommunicate and individual those latter things are just as wrong

But he did still play some of the song at his website preview party, I think he want to play those songs.

Prince really did a lot of cursing way more during his post 1980's music. I don't mind a 'dirty word' when placed just right, in a song or a joke, but just using it just to use it is like scratching on a chalkboard

Remember Prince made changes to his music and what he would/wouldn't perform way before his 50's. Him also considering the effect that his work has on others, is why the Black album was aborted.

I think a lot of people felt the same you did(in the bolded part) I never looked at the sex parts in the 1980's music as being 'in your face or over the top' it was just parts of life story, I didn't see his music as a focus on sex, but living. Doesn't he still perform Dance Music Sex Romance? I think that was what a lot of his music & proteges were about telling stories of rendevous and inner struggles, fantasies and such

Like many others I do see a difference in his pre 1990's music presentation of God-heaven/hell spiritual/religious ideals vs the latter, going to point of changing (yes its his music) but changing the Cross 2 the Christ, Sexuality 2 Spirituality and such. Just leave it alone. Don't use the bible in business agreements to make sure others do right by you, then not make sure people who did work 4 u get paid so they have 2 take u to court.

Overall I love the Rainbow Children album, I know there are probably lines that are not PC and offensive, but with the mix of Egyptology and JW ideas, and biblical stories of the Fall of man ect mixed in strongly with stories of the Banished Ones Digital Gardens and such, I still can't take it serious as being a testament of Jehovahs Witness doctrinal beliefs.

And singing of going down on a woman whether it's in Automatic 1982

I'll go down on U all night long
It's automatic (U will?) (Yes I will, babe)

or masturbation in Mellow 2001

Can I sing 2 U while U bring yourself 2 joy?
I'll go slow at first, while U quench your thirst
Wet circles around the toy
While U bring yourself 2 joy

is the same to me, how is singing Erotic City such a bad thing. If you can change Sexuality 2 Spirituality the change Fuck 2 Funk or Love but you want to play the song.

Automatic just went off Nasty Girls just came on ...

OldFriends4Sale said:

will respond 2 this later.

did u see post 113? thats the closest i've come so far 2 something close to what u r looking 4

Hey, thanks for posting the article. I saw it on that site where some guy has dedicated an entire page to bashing Prince becoming a Jehovah’s Witness, but most of the stuff didn't relate to what I needed. I must have been tired of reading and searching because I completely missed two useful lines from the article you posted, "since then Prince has gone so far as to add religious lyrics to his theme song “Purple Rain.” The new line in the song goes, “Say you can’t make up your mind? I think you better close it and open up the Bible.” Close your mind? Isn’t that like being “brainwashed”?" and "Well, Prince may still be "revolutionary" amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses." These will work, and the article brings my total to six. I thought I had a seventh, but once I reread it I realized that it didn’t give me what I needed. Thanks again!

purplethunder3121 said:

paintedlady said:

Prince always wrote lyrics about God and spirituality. Prince IMO always had faith in a higher power, so he always sought out some sort of religous understanding of an afterlife his entire career.

Now Prince is in a more rigorous religion that seems more dogmatic than others, but the soul searching always remains the same.

Prince was always about religion, sex, and music. It set him apart from the other funk acts because his lyrics caused controversy. It made people pay attention and want more. He became famous because of his views and his sound. It was all new... and interesting, until it wasn't.

He still makes the same good music, about God, religion, and sex... its just that we are not interested anymore since it isn't "new" and "daring" to us.

Prince has remained the same... we changed.

This, too, is true.

That's right. Prince is wrong. HE is stagnation incarnate. S.O.S., different drum machine. Growth in a mirage when it comes to Prince. I couldn't agree more.

1725topp said:

I am writing an article discussing how Einstein and Newton's peers and later scientists criticized them for the amount of time they spent, especially in their later years, engaging religion, and I'd like to use Prince as an example, but I can't find any published articles where writers attribute the decline in Prince's musical and lyrical ability/productivity to his conversion to the Jehovah's Witness faith. I know that a lot of people on this site have asserted this, and I would love to use those assertions, but for this article I must quote published articles. Any assistance provided will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

For years on this site there have been threads about Prince somehow being corrupted by his JW conversion. If he were ... say ... Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic would it be so much of a bother to you? There seems to be some kind of discrimination against JWs and I don't like it. By the way I'm not a Christian at all, but this is getting to be a bit too much.

dseann said:

1725topp said:

I am writing an article discussing how Einstein and Newton's peers and later scientists criticized them for the amount of time they spent, especially in their later years, engaging religion, and I'd like to use Prince as an example, but I can't find any published articles where writers attribute the decline in Prince's musical and lyrical ability/productivity to his conversion to the Jehovah's Witness faith. I know that a lot of people on this site have asserted this, and I would love to use those assertions, but for this article I must quote published articles. Any assistance provided will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

For years on this site there have been threads about Prince somehow being corrupted by his JW conversion. If he were ... say ... Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic would it be so much of a bother to you? There seems to be some kind of discrimination against JWs and I don't like it. By the way I'm not a Christian at all, but this is getting to be a bit too much.

Please don't make it personal, 1725topp is not taking sides on it, just looking for articles/interviews etc that insist that Prince's JW connection is why they feel his career may have declined.

OldFriends4Sale said:

dseann said:

For years on this site there have been threads about Prince somehow being corrupted by his JW conversion. If he were ... say ... Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic would it be so much of a bother to you? There seems to be some kind of discrimination against JWs and I don't like it. By the way I'm not a Christian at all, but this is getting to be a bit too much.

Please don't make it personal, 1725topp is not taking sides on it, just looking for articles/interviews etc that insist that Prince's JW connection is why they feel his career may have declined.

172Stopp isn't targeting JWs; 172Stopp is focusing on Prince's faith of choice, which is JW, but could have been any of the ones dseann mentioned or thousands of other religious views. Since the topic is Prince, then the faith to be examined is the one he has chosen.

purplethunder3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Please don't make it personal, 1725topp is not taking sides on it, just looking for articles/interviews etc that insist that Prince's JW connection is why they feel his career may have declined.

172Stopp isn't targeting JWs; 172Stopp is focusing on Prince's faith of choice, which is JW, but could have been any of the ones dseann mentioned or thousands of other religious views. Since the topic is Prince, then the faith to be examined is the one he has chosen.

True and I'm saying the same thing. even though many of us are off on a tangent about it, 172Stopp is looking for articles(not really discussion) that deal with people who see Prince's 'decline' due to his JW connection

paintedlady said:

Prince always wrote lyrics about God and spirituality. Prince IMO always had faith in a higher power, so he always sought out some sort of religous understanding of an afterlife his entire career.

Now Prince is in a more rigorous religion that seems more dogmatic than others, but the soul searching always remains the same.

Prince was always about religion, sex, and music. It set him apart from the other funk acts because his lyrics caused controversy. It made people pay attention and want more. He became famous because of his views and his sound. It was all new... and interesting, until it wasn't.

He still makes the same good music, about God, religion, and sex... its just that we are not interested anymore since it isn't "new" and "daring" to us.

Prince has remained the same... we changed.

That's not true, if he didn't change he would not be a professed Jehovah's Witness

If he didn't change he would not have taken his 1981 song Sexuality and begin singing Spirituality or the Cross 2 the Christ

1980's God is Love, Love God Prince is a lot different

Recently, Prince hosted an executive works for Philip Anschutz, the Christian businessman whose company owns the Staples Center. “We started talking red and blue,” Prince said. “People with money—money like that—are not affected by the stock market, and they’re not freaking out over anything. They’re just watching. So here’s how it is: you’ve got the Republicans, and basically they want to live according to this.” He pointed to a Bible. “But there’s the problem of interpretation, and you’ve got some churches, some people, basically doing things and saying it comes from here, but it doesn’t. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum you’ve got blue, you’ve got the Democrats, and they’re, like, ‘You can do whatever you want.’ Gay marriage, whatever. But neither of them is right.”

When asked about his perspective on social issues—gay marriage, abortion—Prince tapped his Bible and said, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’ ”

An article/interv about him and his JW faith

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3...ned-233415

Prince: How the rock legend turned his life around

Prince sifr

One of the world’s raunchiest rock stars, Prince is in his stacked heels and flamboyant suit strutting from house to house around an ordinary suburban estate.

Flanked by minders, he goes up a garden path, knocks on a door and politely asks the householder: “Would you like to talk about God?”

It’s an extraordinary image. You can only imagine the shock of a ­homeowner finding the superstar on their doorstep clutching a bible and delivering a message about the divine.

Can this really be the same man who shot to fame with outrageously explicit songs such as Sexy MF?

Prince admits his door-to-door missions as a Jehovah’s Witness raises eyebrows. “Sometimes people act surprised but mostly they’re really cool about it.

Sometimes he tries to escape his fame by going in disguise. He says: “My hair is capable of doing a lot of different things. I don’t always look like this.”

You only have to meet Prince for a few minutes to realise the extent to which God – rather than the colour purple – now influences how he lives.

Much of what he says, as well as his songwriting, revolves around his beliefs these days. Even the mysterious numbers he slots into his material are thought to be coded biblical references.

I join Prince at his Paisley Park base near his home city of Minneapolis in the US Midwest.

It is days before his eagerly anticipated new album 20TEN is released free inside this Saturday’s Daily Mirror in the biggest music giveaway of the year.

In my view it’s his best record since his brilliant Sign o’ the Times and, with ­references from “fat bankers” to melting ice caps, it’s his most socially aware.

The songs – and even his ­decision to give them away free to Mirror readers – have been

influenced by his faith.

He says: “It’s great to give away my music through your ­newspaper. God is a generous and loving being. It is written that we should act like God. There are enough opportunities.”

On my guided tour of Paisley Park it’s clear that for Prince the most important part of the 70,000 sq ft complex isn’t the recording studio where he’s created hit after ­worldwide hit but a peaceful ­sanctuary on the first floor which he calls The ­Knowledge Room.

Lined with shelves of religious ­literature, it’s where he contemplates the meaning of life, prays and studies the Bible for up to six hours a day, sometimes long into the night.

The teetotal vegan, a youthful-looking 52, is certain his faith has changed his life.

He says: “There’s an incredible peace in my life now and I’m trying to share it with people.”

He talks with a real missionary zeal though some of his comments are puzzling. At one point he says: “You know there are bad angels as well as good angels.”

It reminded me that he once revealed he had epileptic seizures when he was young – until “my mother told me one day I had said to her, ‘Mom I’m not going to be sick any more because an angel told me so.’”

I ask him about the story. He thinks for a moment and then says: “I never talk about the past.”

Subject closed.

He avoids performing his most X-rated sexual material from the 80s and early 90s – those massive selling songs such as Gett Off – and cautions against swearing because “you call up all the anger”.

He is also known to donate huge chunks of his £100million fortune to good causes around the

world. And, perhaps most surprising of all, the man who was romantically linked to beauties including Sheena Easton, Kim Basinger and Carmen Electra – and sang about “23 positions in a one night stand” – is a fan of monogamy.

He’s been dating ­stunning singer Bria Valente, who is almost half his age, for at least three years.

For Prince that’s no small feat!

It is believed that, like his second wife Manuela Testolini, who he divorced in 2006, Bria has become a Jehovah’s Witness, has been baptised in a pool and attends regular Bible studies at their local Kingdom Hall meeting place.

The background to why he ­abandoned a world of hedonistic excess can be traced to a series of tragedies in the mid to late 90s.

It was a time when his glittering career seemed to be faltering and contractual frustrations with

his then record company Warners were boiling over.

He replaced his name with an unpronounceable symbol, became the Artist Formerly Known As Prince and scrawled SLAVE on his cheek.

But all that paled beside the anguish of the death of his baby son Gregory in 1996.

Prince had set his heart on starting a family with his first wife, dancer Mayte Garcia.

Seven days after their child was born the child died from a genetic disorder of the skull called

Pfieffer syndrome.

More heartbreak and soul-searching followed with the death of both the star’s parents.

Dad John L Nelson was a pianist and bandleader.

Prince’s mother, the jazz singer Mattie Shaw, died six months later. Her final wish was said to be that her son should become a Jehovah’s Witness as she had been for most of her life. Prince grappled with depression and something approaching a midlife crisis.

To the outside world he was a gleaming example of the American Dream.

Prince Rogers Nelson, an African-American boy from a broken home on the wrong side of the tracks who had faced down the bullies at school and every other obstacle to conquer the world with truly ­innovative music.

A rock legend who had amassed a fortune from global tours and sales of more than 100 million albums, including classics such as Purple Rain, 1999 and Diamonds and Pearls.

And when he wasn’t making music, he was picking up beautiful women or awards including Grammys and even an Oscar.

But for Prince all the dizzying success meant little. As he searched for purpose to his life he became friends with one of his heroes – former Sly and the Family Stone bassist Larry Graham, now 63.

The soul veteran made a huge ­impression on Prince, telling him how he had recovered from a life of drugs and violence by being born again as a Jehovah’s Witness. Larry convinced him to convert.

Prince says: “Larry goes door to door to tell people the truth about God. “That’s why I told myself I need to know a man like him. He’s a friend who calls me his baby brother.”

Larry says: “Prince is a spiritual man. Sometimes we study for hours – six, seven, eight hours a day. We sit down and get into the scriptures.”

Prince’s place of worship is the Chanhassen Congregation, a few miles from Paisley Park.

One of the elders there says: “We have watched Prince since he started studying the Bible and noticed a dramatic change. We go on Bible studies together and work in field service, the door-to-door ministry that Jehovah’s Witnesses are known for.

“When people being called on get past the initial shock of actually meeting Prince, he is very persuasive. He uses the ­scriptures very well.”

Critics claim it has led to him adopting surprisingly hardline conservative views on issues such as gay marriage and ­abortion.

In one interview two years ago, he was quoted as saying: “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out.

“He was like, ‘Enough.’”

Prince denied taking such a stance and is now careful not be drawn on his beliefs.

“I can give you books to read and you would understand,” he says, “But I ain’t going into details with you.”

I ask does he regret the wild image which helped catapult him to fame all those years ago? The dirty lyrics, ­endorsements of casual sex, the nude figure on the cover of Lovesexy?

He thinks, smiles and in typically Prince style says: “I live in the here and now. You should try it too.”

OldFriends4Sale said:

dseann said:

For years on this site there have been threads about Prince somehow being corrupted by his JW conversion. If he were ... say ... Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic would it be so much of a bother to you? There seems to be some kind of discrimination against JWs and I don't like it. By the way I'm not a Christian at all, but this is getting to be a bit too much.

Please don't make it personal, 1725topp is not taking sides on it, just looking for articles/interviews etc that insist that Prince's JW connection is why they feel his career may have declined.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

purplethunder3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Please don't make it personal, 1725topp is not taking sides on it, just looking for articles/interviews etc that insist that Prince's JW connection is why they feel his career may have declined.

172Stopp isn't targeting JWs; 172Stopp is focusing on Prince's faith of choice, which is JW, but could have been any of the ones dseann mentioned or thousands of other religious views. Since the topic is Prince, then the faith to be examined is the one he has chosen.

Thank you, also, but just for clarification, I looking for articles by others (not me) who are focusing on Prince's faith of choice and connecting it to his decline. I just want to show that Prince being criticized for his faith is no different than Einstein and Newton being criticized for their faith so that I can make the connection to a larger discussion about the similarity of the artist and the scientist in their role as philosopher. So, again, thanks for helping to clarify what I'm doing. I appreciate it!!!

OldFriends4Sale said:

An article/interv about him and his JW faith

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3...ned-233415

Prince: How the rock legend turned his life around

One of the world’s raunchiest rock stars, Prince is in his stacked heels and flamboyant suit strutting from house to house around an ordinary suburban estate.

Prince sifr

Thanks for this one, but it more shows how becoming a JW has helped him by giving him perspective and inner peace moreso than caused a decline in his art. But, I appreciate the continued help.