Stymie said:

djThunderfunk said:

It's too logical and obvious? Yeah. That's it...

He doesn't want to though so why isn't that okay for us? We dug the guy because he did what he wanted to do and now were mad at him because of it? Where's the logic in that? I believe p is an asshole for other reasons but not on the bootleg/ releasing music issue.

HonestMan13 said:

Tittypants said:

I couldn't agree with you more. it's weird that he can't see that himself, but we can. Prince deserves his legendary status, But he doesn't have to be a such a lame about it. It really appears to me that he's so engulfed in his own world, he's not seeing such easy ways to make more $...that's all he wants now anyway

You know it's easy now to take this viewpoint because the fans have basically acquired everything by hook or crook over the past 3 decades. Now we want Prince to get on board and give us everything we for all intents already stole but in better sound quality and with pretty pictures. Yeah the bootlegs are a part of his legacy but they were his part to give us when he felt like it not ours to take when we wanted to. If we know what's circulating then so does he. So after 30 years he's pissed and some fans can't accept that. It's cool. At the end of the day yoiu still have your bootlegs and the knowledge on where to find them in your harddrive or committed to memory. Prince still hasn't stopped us from doing anything.

I see your point of view. But maybe Prince could at least consider, going forward, selling CDs at each concert of earlier concerts from the same tour. Suppose the fans at the Chicago concert were given the unique opportunity to buy an official limited edition CD or DVD of some earlier show from the W2A tour. It would become an instant collector's item and would encourage people to go to the next concert. Just like he sold unique CD singles at the Hit-n-Run shows that are now extremely valuable and nearly impossible to find. I say this as an impartial observer because, other than an obsessive need to buy everything Prince releases officially, I'm not really interested in listening to live bootlegs of concerts from the most recent tour.

[Edited 9/2/12 21:42pm]

djThunderfunk said:

How many fans that even know what Prince's last album was or know about and plan to purchase Andy Allo's CD aren't also into bootlegs? Few I think. Just those of us who are "obfuckingsessed".

djThunderfunk said:

Stymie said:

djThunderfunk said: He doesn't want to though so why isn't that okay for us? We dug the guy because he did what he wanted to do and now were mad at him because of it? Where's the logic in that? I believe p is an asshole for other reasons but not on the bootleg/ releasing music issue.

Maybe a new fan that missed out on the limited availability of the NPGMC (or other out of print material) wants to experience Prince's entire discography but has no legal way of doing so. They are faced with choices of skipping entire sections of Prince's career, obtaining "illegally", or just deciding it's not worth it. Where's the logic in that?

The out of print material has null effect on someones fandom or lack thereof....the 80's and a ot of the 90's and oo's material is still readily available..some stuff is not that crucial as yall make it lol.

HonestMan13 said:

Tittypants said:

I couldn't agree with you more. it's weird that he can't see that himself, but we can. Prince deserves his legendary status, But he doesn't have to be a such a lame about it. It really appears to me that he's so engulfed in his own world, he's not seeing such easy ways to make more $...that's all he wants now anyway

You know it's easy now to take this viewpoint because the fans have basically acquired everything by hook or crook over the past 3 decades. Now we want Prince to get on board and give us everything we for all intents already stole but in better sound quality and with pretty pictures. Yeah the bootlegs are a part of his legacy but they were his part to give us when he felt like it not ours to take when we wanted to. If we know what's circulating then so does he. So after 30 years he's pissed and some fans can't accept that. It's cool. At the end of the day yoiu still have your bootlegs and the knowledge on where to find them in your harddrive or committed to memory. Prince still hasn't stopped us from doing anything.

I'm not even mad over bootlegs to the degree that others are....

& I've never stolen any Prince boots, my feet are way too big to fit his boots .

[Edited 9/2/12 21:46pm]

Those who know about all that are obfuckingsessed. Learn it..live it..love it..accept it. 90% of those who will fill up that Chi-town arena dont know or care about any of this shit lol.

djThunderfunk said:

How many fans that even know what Prince's last album was or know about and plan to purchase Andy Allo's CD aren't also into bootlegs? Few I think. Just those of us who are "obfuckingsessed".

rdhull said:

Stymie said:

rdhull said:

I'm sorry but dude just don't strike me as a nice person. It's hard to separate the man from the music because I allowed myself to get too emotionally involved but I'm learning the lesson with every other artist I follow: I don't want to know shit about them as a person.

Oh I kind of agree with you..it was just funny how you put it lol

Stymie said:

djThunderfunk said:

Maybe a new fan that missed out on the limited availability of the NPGMC (or other out of print material) wants to experience Prince's entire discography but has no legal way of doing so. They are faced with choices of skipping entire sections of Prince's career, obtaining "illegally", or just deciding it's not worth it. Where's the logic in that?

You're trying to make te illegality of bootlegs somehow okay and blame Prince like its his fault people want to bootleg his shit and steal from him. Your argument just ain't logical. Really, if it were you, how would you feel?

No I am not. I am trying to explain to you why it IS a big deal that so much of his material is unavailable. This is especially ridiculous with material from NPGMC that he owns 100%, that is already digitized and catalogued, and that he already planned at one time to re-release as a box set.

Of course hard-core music fans that get into Prince are going to want to check out at least all his official material. How is it surprising when a bootleg market fills the void when he won't make them available?

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

Stymie said:

djThunderfunk said: You're trying to make te illegality of bootlegs somehow okay and blame Prince like its his fault people want to bootleg his shit and steal from him. Your argument just ain't logical. Really, if it were you, how would you feel?

No I am not. I am trying to explain to you why it IS a big deal that so much of his material is unavailable. This is especially ridiculous with material from NPGMC that he owns 100%, that is already digitized and catalogued, and that he already planned at one time to re-release as a box set.

Of course hard-core music fans that get into Prince are going to want to check out at least all his official material. How is it surprising when a bootleg market fills the void when he won't make them available?

dj thunderfunk, go to bed

djThunderfunk said:

Stymie said:

rdhull said:

I'm sorry but dude just don't strike me as a nice person. It's hard to separate the man from the music because I allowed myself to get too emotionally involved but I'm learning the lesson with every other artist I follow: I don't want to know shit about them as a person.

I actually agree with this very much so . I shall take notes.

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

Stymie said:

djThunderfunk said: You're trying to make te illegality of bootlegs somehow okay and blame Prince like its his fault people want to bootleg his shit and steal from him. Your argument just ain't logical. Really, if it were you, how would you feel?

No I am not. I am trying to explain to you why it IS a big deal that so much of his material is unavailable. This is especially ridiculous with material from NPGMC that he owns 100%, that is already digitized and catalogued, and that he already planned at one time to re-release as a box set.

Of course hard-core music fans that get into Prince are going to want to check out at least all his official material. How is it surprising when a bootleg market fills the void when he won't make them available?

Let's not act like the bootlegging just started a few years ago. We were bootlegging back when there was a new album every 12 months, 3 or 4 singles dropped with b-sides and remixes along with videos in heavy rotation. We didn't need an excuse then and we don't need one now. Same as Prince.

HonestMan13 said:

Stymie said:

djThunderfunk said:

No I am not. I am trying to explain to you why it IS a big deal that so much of his material is unavailable. This is especially ridiculous with material from NPGMC that he owns 100%, that is already digitized and catalogued, and that he already planned at one time to re-release as a box set.

Of course hard-core music fans that get into Prince are going to want to check out at least all his official material. How is it surprising when a bootleg market fills the void when he won't make them available?

I have been a hardcore fan since the 80s. I missed tons of shows because I couldn't afford to go. You know what? Thats just too bad for me. We as adults cannot always have what we want and nothing you can say will rationalize that. Now there are certain shows I have been lucky enough to get my hands on but nothing I've seen has made me more of a prince fan. And again how would you feel if it were you? Would you feel the fans deserved yur music ecause you wouldn't officially release it?

We're talking about 2 different things.

I was trying to explain to those that don't get it, that it is a big deal when a large portion of an artists OFFICIAL catalog is unavailable and out of print. It is a big deal to new fans who may be trying to take the musical journey that is Prince's discography. When it comes to NPGMC material Prince owns it and can sell it easily. This would be a logical thing for him to do.

First you said I am trying to say it's ok to steal from him. I'm not. I'm explaining a problem. A problem that does lead to increased demand for bootlegs.

Now you're saying I'm arguing that I deserve live shows. I have made no argument regarding deserving live shows. You seem to be confusing different posts by different people.

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

No I am not. I am trying to explain to you why it IS a big deal that so much of his material is unavailable. This is especially ridiculous with material from NPGMC that he owns 100%, that is already digitized and catalogued, and that he already planned at one time to re-release as a box set.

Of course hard-core music fans that get into Prince are going to want to check out at least all his official material. How is it surprising when a bootleg market fills the void when he won't make them available?

dj thunderfunk, go to bed

djThunderfunk said:

This discussions in this thread and the similar one with all the same players have been all over the map.

As I was saying on the other one:

All said, from both these threads, there's only one thing I really get bent out of shape about:

It's this idea that discussions or reviews or any other cataloging information about bootlegs is illegal because they might possibly cause or assist someone's illegal acquisition of said bootlegs. It's not illegal. I'll argue this fact all day. I take freedom of speech very seriously.

The rest of it? I'm just having fun with the discussions...

I don't think Prince is a asshole [just] because he won't release bootlegs. It would be nice if he did, but I'm not bitching about that too much...others are [& I think many would love some legal soundboards in their collection, besides the 'One Nite Alone' stuff ]. But I think it's because his music lately [partially due to his beliefs] hasn't been too up to par with what we're used to [@ least in imo...I'm sure many of you disagree with that too ].

I commend Prince for releasing as much music that he has [good or bad]. I often wished that MJ would have released more. Maybe Prince has spoiled us hardcore fans to a degree that he can't come back from, so he ignores us. My complaints are for the fact that he's want our money, but he's suing us @ the same time...[did anybody sue for the Lotusflow3r.com debacle?]. I've never spent $ on any bootleg, & I never will. If he released them himself, I'd buy them [I've already established that]. But damn, what demographic is he trying to appeal to when he doesn't like digital music....in a digital age?

Sure, he knows for a fact that people will come see him in concert, but he's not going to perform every single song he's ever made every concert [uncut], & you can't keep any of it after it's all over [unless good bootlegs come out ]. I'm nervous to think of remasters, just because of his religious beliefs. Questlove actually said a lot of my feelings about what Prince is doing when it comes to his music, so I really don't care to go over that. But I've just never seen someone so anal over something that they put out there @ a time when people were actually making $ off of music, as oppose to what has happened with music now.

I would like to believe that Prince has some master plan that will ultimately lead to him pleasing fans & his pockets @ the same time. But I don't know if I should put much hope in that. I am for certain that I won't be making another thread like this, simply because I just had to get these thoughts out of my system , & I thank you all for participating [positive or negative ]. But while I do consider Prince an asshole still, it doesn't matter . Carry on.....

rdhull said:

really Im not...not to sound arrogant but Im rarely ever wrong when it comes to Prince stuff lol

I could same the same,

Like the Prince bootleg market exists to serve the few people making the arguments on this thread...

Please! There are whole bootleg labels devoted to Prince bootleg. Multiple. Labels. That only make Prince bootlegs. It's a thriving market, both with the free fan releases AND (apparently still) the pressed bootlegs.

FunkySideEffects said:

I can understand why Prince shut down this website. For example: a few years ago I was a huge fan of Christina Aguilera. I would make sure to buy her album as soon as it went on sale & I even attended her concerts. Then one year she released her third album or whatever it was & a friend at work had bought her cd & burned me a copy. I took it home, played it & loved it plus was so thrilled that I got it for FREE. I stopped buying her cd's after that (not because I got them 4 free but because in my opinion Xtina just got too annoying for me) ..okay so maybe this is not a good example to do with shutting down websites but I mean if someone or something is giving information on bootlegs, then it just encourages the whole cycle. It'd be a different story if the website was based on Prince's favorite outfits or something - but this was a site for bootlegs. Give the man a break, he loves his fans. Don't mix business with pleasure (pleasure: prince & his music. Business: closing down websites for legal reasons). [Edited 9/3/12 0:39am]

you're mixing up pirating with bootlegging in the music biz. The site that was closed did not list albums by Prince. It listed albums that Prince had never made. So they didn't compete with his sales of his official releases.

What your friend did was pirate an official album. All the bootleg listing sites I know seem to have a no "pirating" policy. They don't want to damage sales by the artist they are fans of. They don't list copies of official releases.

rdhull said:

ufoclub said:

Prince should notice that in the long run, more boots, more artwork, more websites equals more purchase of Prince's official releases (which don't coincide with the boots normally in terms of product or market territory). In order for him to be a strong cultural phenomenon that endures beyond and into the future (beyond himself) he needs to allow his art to enter into the public domain of outside interpretation, repetition, and even curation. The bootleggers often curate his art and package it in great ways that he is not planning to do himself, and those good bootlegs will only strengthen his legacy as a historical creative force that shaped pop art.

The bootlegs = valuable marketing hype. Just like the youtube videos = free commercials. If he were to allow more youtube videos to persist, it would probably increase awareness of his talent, thereby increasing his concert sales and maybe even album sales.

That's how its works from I can observe.

Nothing regarding his career being greater or lesser involves bootlegs. You are giving them too much credit. And rest assured..his legacy is solid with or without them.

You kidding me? Out of all the Prince collectors I know, including myself, the bootlegs drive our interest to actually purchase. I didn't buy any Prince stuff until after I heard the Black Album in 1988. Before that I just borrowed his records from a friend (who actually stopped buying his stuff around 1988 and didn't get into bootlegs). I turned down a free ticket to see the Purple Rain concert back in high school. I was not intrigued enough to care.

These days if I want to illustrate that Prince is a creative genius in the studio or live, it's only the bootlegs that would reinforce that idea to new intelligent people that I meet.

When you see a top ten list in 1988 from Bono and The Edge include the Black Album, or an intelligent retrospective article from a music critic mention a project like Dream Factory, you should be getting a little bit aware that these items, songs, and his live performances are a key factor in intelligent fandom of Prince. and it's intelligent fandom that matters 50 years from now. Those people would write the books, direct the movies, create the websites, record tributes that document and promote his thang.

The closest Prince came to tapping into this was with his earlier incarnations of the NPG music club, where he would give out unheard studio cuts, soundboard tracks, and upload MP3's of his "radio shows". Those were steady times with him pushing his hype in a way with substance.

[Edited 9/3/12 6:17am]

What does TDG stand for?

What does TDG stand for?

April8 said:

What does TDG stand for?

The Digital Garden