Giovanni777 said:

I realize that the scope and breadth of Prince's talent is so vast that it can lead to this kind of thinking, but come on folks.

Prince has given FAR more credit for things he did than credit he's taken for things he didn't.

TRUE.

.

[Edited 8/9/12 14:23pm]

Indeed.

It looks like we can all agree that Prince stole whenever he felt like it but I really don't think in this instance it's true. Out of all the claims I've heard (Andre wrote Do Me Baby, Morris wrote Partyup, Andre didn't get credit for the second album) I've never heard any of the very bitter people say he stole drumming parts. Prince's response to Andres claims about the Second album were addressd in the 85 rolling stone interview saying all Andre did was sing harmony on "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad" if that's true then it's stupid of Prince to put him in a position to accuse him of theft over something so trivial, if it's not true then andre did more work and as in the case of the Controversy album where he got a gold record for his work, maybe he deserved some payment. The For You part always sounded like a certain EArth wind and fire song which I can't name at the moment and the Take Me with You intro wasn't totally unlike it, I think Prince could pull it off.

Militant said:

Giovanni777 said:

I realize that the scope and breadth of Prince's talent is so vast that it can lead to this kind of thinking, but come on folks.

Prince has given FAR more credit for things he did than credit he's taken for things he didn't.

TRUE.

.

[Edited 8/9/12 14:23pm]

Indeed.

oh i get it, that's very true as well, Morris wrote partyup, a song P thought was great but I never thought much of it, the entire first time album was fantastic to me and prince did the bulk of that. who can figure out a guy who gives and takes so recklessy, selfish and selflessly.

Geez.....if he was horrible in the "America" video on the long version when he got behind the drums what makes you think he was good 1978-1981? it was Morris Day folks!!

kidmelody2012 said:

Geez.....if he was horrible in the "America" video on the long version when he got behind the drums what makes you think he was good 1978-1981? it was Morris Day folks!!

horrible? how was he horrible? I never thought he was horrible.

kidmelody2012 said:

Geez.....if he was horrible in the "America" video on the long version when he got behind the drums what makes you think he was good 1978-1981? it was Morris Day folks!!

let's not bash him now come on

He was not horrible at all, and playing electric drums is much different than organic drums

Lol...........a discussion we will NEVER have about MJ.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Replica said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

let's not bash him now come on

He was not horrible at all, and playing electric drums is much different than organic drums

I've heard that electronic drums back then was difficult to make sound good. And my own experience is that organic still is alot easier to make sound good. Just triggering the sounds in the 80s was probably a bit tricky. Ve was much better on organic drums. Pretty tight on the sott concert.

I don't think the original intent here was to imply that Prince is an incompetent drummer -- only to discuss the lingering questions over where he may have used an outside (and uncredited) drummer, who that may have been and why he (or someone else) made that decision...

Still not sure why the mystery drummer(s) would go uncredited, afterall Prince was touted as the next Stevie Wonder but Stevie never claimed to play everything on his recordings

alphachannel said:

I don't think the original intent here was to imply that Prince is an incompetent drummer -- only to discuss the lingering questions over where he may have used an outside (and uncredited) drummer, who that may have been and why he (or someone else) made that decision...

Still not sure why the mystery drummer(s) would go uncredited, afterall Prince was touted as the next Stevie Wonder but Stevie never claimed to play everything on his recordings

Prince said himself in an interview that many credits were missed on songs back then, I will pull up the interview

Reading on how many of the songs were created I can understand how people could go uncredited.

Lisa Coleman said that in that early 1980-81 period that Prince Morris Day & Her(Lisa) would be in the studio a lot making a lot of the music that ended up on Protege albums and some other stuff

I believe the next Stevie Wonder was used by the guy trying to get him the deal, because up to that point he was being rejected left n right

The time had arrived, Prince believed, to begin shopping his music to labels in the hope of getting a contract. He had essentially outgrown the need for Moon as a colaborator, and asked him instead to begin serving as a manager. The Englishman declined, however. "The piece I don't do," he responded, "is booking your hotel, making sure you're wearing the right kind of clothes. I'm not interested in that."

Showing remarkable confidence, Prince decided to approach record companies on his own. Armed with a four-song demo tape he flew to New York, where he stayed with his his half sister Sharon Nelson. Predictably, labels were unwilling to meet with an unknown teenager. Frustrated, Prince called Moon and urged him to contact record labels. Moon relented and did as asked, although no one returned his calls either.

Moon then seived on a bolder approach. He contacted Atlantic Records and claimed to a secretary that he represented Stevie Wonder; moments later, an executive called back. Summoning all of the confidence he could muster, Moon admitted that he did not handle Wonder but claimed he had something better to offer. "I'm representing Princ," Moon said "If you like Stevie Wonder, you're gonna love my artist. He's only 18, he plays all the instruments, and he's not blind."

Moon's audacity landed Prince and audience with Atlantic records, but the label came away unimpressed with the tape. The Moonsound demo was simply not slick or professional enough for presentation to major labels. Disappointed but undaunted, Prince hunkered down in his sister's apartment and pondered his next step.

Leaving 4 New York & Soft n Wet were 2 of those songs on the demo

OldFriends4Sale said:

alphachannel said:

I don't think the original intent here was to imply that Prince is an incompetent drummer -- only to discuss the lingering questions over where he may have used an outside (and uncredited) drummer, who that may have been and why he (or someone else) made that decision...

Still not sure why the mystery drummer(s) would go uncredited, afterall Prince was touted as the next Stevie Wonder but Stevie never claimed to play everything on his recordings

Prince said himself in an interview that many credits were missed on songs back then, I will pull up the interview

Reading on how many of the songs were created I can understand how people could go uncredited.

Lisa Coleman said that in that early 1980-81 period that Prince Morris Day & Her(Lisa) would be in the studio a lot making a lot of the music that ended up on Protege albums and some other stuff

I believe the next Stevie Wonder was used by the guy trying to get him the deal, because up to that point he was being rejected left n right

That interview would be a nice read -- I hope you can post it...

I agree with you by the way, and I should have be clearer with my off-hand Stevie comparison. I wholly believe the push behind Prince as a "teenage" one-man band was more the brainchild of his management and/or Warner's marketing efforts than Prince's ego.

Also to Prince's defense he's given more credit to people who didn't contribute as compared to not crediting people who did...

alphachannel said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince said himself in an interview that many credits were missed on songs back then, I will pull up the interview

Reading on how many of the songs were created I can understand how people could go uncredited.

Lisa Coleman said that in that early 1980-81 period that Prince Morris Day & Her(Lisa) would be in the studio a lot making a lot of the music that ended up on Protege albums and some other stuff

I believe the next Stevie Wonder was used by the guy trying to get him the deal, because up to that point he was being rejected left n right

That interview would be a nice read -- I hope you can post it...

I agree with you by the way, and I should have be clearer with my off-hand Stevie comparison. I wholly believe the push behind Prince as a "teenage" one-man band was more the brainchild of his management and/or Warner's marketing efforts than Prince's ego.

Also to Prince's defense he's given more credit to people who didn't contribute as compared to not crediting people who did...

Yeah as far as title usage, especially when it came down to the proteges, but that was his ploy too

In a GB era interview he said the Time broke up because they ran out of ideas

and he said he never fired Jimmy & Terry, that Morris asked him what would he do and he answered I would let them go...

Prince created so many untruths that he couldn't keep up lol didn't they have him at a younger age than his real?

I think that starting Prince off as this 1 man band Wonder, wasn't good for him in the long run, but it got him his WB deal.

Over all there are many outtakes from 1877-1980 that band members played on(+the Rebel project), but prob most of the 1st & 2nd album was Prince. Maybe in jamming others gave Prince ideas that became the music for the 1st 2 albums but giving credit should be still be recorded.

A lot of the music from the 1st 2 albums were really 'simple', you hear it extend into DM but you know he opened up to some new things by then

When Lisa came on he used Lisa a lot, and Dr Fink and as the music increased he used more band,

This info(Prince Vault) doesn't credit with Andre as being on the song

Just As Long A We're 2Gether

In 1976-1977, before the album sessions began, the full track was recorded at Sound 80, Minneapolis, MN, USA. On 8 April, 1977, Prince recorded the song from scratch in front of CBS Records executives in Los Angeles to show that he could play all the instruments and produce himself.

Later in 1977 he did the same again in front of Warner Bros. executives, also in Los Angeles. Recording dates for the album version of the song are not known, but the album was recorded at the Record Plant, Sausalito, CA, USA, from 1 October 1977 to 22 December 1977, before overdubs and mixing took place, in early January 1978 at Sound Labs, Los Angeles, CA, USA.

5. Just As Long As We're Together co-lead:Andre Cymone
Just as Long as We're Together #1 3:44
Just as Long as We're Together #2 5:47
Just as Long as We're Together #3 5:57

Nothin' that will break us apart
Girl, I got 2 always have U in my hair
Gotta always have U in my heart

Just As Long As We're Together

Released November 21, 1978
Recorded October-December 1977

The song consists of two verses and multiple repeats of the chorus before a coda at the end. The coda is actually an instrumental track originally called "Jelly Jam" that was added to "Just as Long as We're Together", and modified over time to blend into the main track. Andre Cymone co-leads on this song.

B-side:In Love

With the completed Cookhouse songs in his possession, Pepé and Wendell, the bass player for 94 East, flew to New York in April of 1976 and literally beat the pavement until 94 East was signed with Polydor. 94 East had to prepare to go in to the studio and record a single. By this time, Dale Alexander had lost his position as drummer with 94 East and was replaced by Bobby "Z" Rivkin. Bobby later became the drummer for Prince's first band, the Revolution. When Prince began working on his own demo recordings at Sound 80, André Lewis, Pierre Lewis' younger brother was given the task of learning all of Prince's guitar parts.

By now, Prince had started his association with Owen Husney, whom he later hired as his manager. Soon after, Prince was recording his own demos at Sound 80 with the financial support of Husney and the engineering skills of David Z (Bobby Z's brother).

The very next day, Prince, André Cymone and Pepé were in Sound 80 Recording Studios, recording new material.

From these sessions came Dance To The Music The World, Lovin' Cup and Just Another Sucker (the song Pepé and Prince co-wrote). If You Feel Like Dancin' and One Man Jam were recorded at a studio in New York. That trip proved to be an excellent experience for Prince and André (Cymone). They got the kind of professional studio exposure that would prove invaluable to them in the future.

These five songs really show the fast-growing maturity and versatility of Prince since the Cookhouse Five recordings. On Just Another Sucker, Lovin' Cup and Dance To The Music Of The World, Prince not only played guitar, but also drums, keyboards, and did vocal work. André Cymone played bass and Pepé played rhythm guitar. On If You Feel Like Dancin', Prince is on keyboards and guitar. One Man Jam, André Cymone is on bass and Prince "went crazy" playing everything else. Pepé added synthesizer parts in the overdub. We guess Prince really wanted to "show them" for Pepés sake.

Songs that were intended to be on For You started being recorded in late 1976:

14-track demo tape, Moonsound, Minneapolis, spring – December 1976 – no known order
Instrumental (7:25) – possibly titled Farnborough
Aces (Prince/Chris Moon)
Diamond Eyes (Prince/Chris Moon)
Don’t Forget (Prince/Chris Moon)
Don’t Hold Back (Prince/Chris Moon)
Fantasy (Prince/Chris Moon)
Love Is Forever #1 (Prince/Chris Moon)
Make It Through the Storm #1 (Prince/Chris Moon)
Piano Intro (0:40)
Soft and Wet #1 (3:22) (Prince/Chris Moon)
Surprise (Prince/Chris Moon)
Baby #1
I’m Yours #1
Jelly Jam #1 (Instrumental)
Leaving for New York #2
Since We’ve Been Together #1
For You #3 (1:19)
For You #4 (1:20)
Outro (0:13)

OldFriends4Sale said:

With the completed Cookhouse songs in his possession, Pepé and Wendell, the bass player for 94 East, flew to New York in April of 1976 and literally beat the pavement until 94 East was signed with Polydor. 94 East had to prepare to go in to the studio and record a single. By this time, Dale Alexander had lost his position as drummer with 94 East and was replaced by Bobby "Z" Rivkin. Bobby later became the drummer for Prince's first band, the Revolution. When Prince began working on his own demo recordings at Sound 80, André Lewis, Pierre Lewis' younger brother was given the task of learning all of Prince's guitar parts.

By now, Prince had started his association with Owen Husney, whom he later hired as his manager. Soon after, Prince was recording his own demos at Sound 80 with the financial support of Husney and the engineering skills of David Z (Bobby Z's brother).

The very next day, Prince, André Cymone and Pepé were in Sound 80 Recording Studios, recording new material.

From these sessions came Dance To The Music The World, Lovin' Cup and Just Another Sucker (the song Pepé and Prince co-wrote). If You Feel Like Dancin' and One Man Jam were recorded at a studio in New York. That trip proved to be an excellent experience for Prince and André (Cymone). They got the kind of professional studio exposure that would prove invaluable to them in the future.

These five songs really show the fast-growing maturity and versatility of Prince since the Cookhouse Five recordings. On Just Another Sucker, Lovin' Cup and Dance To The Music Of The World, Prince not only played guitar, but also drums, keyboards, and did vocal work. André Cymone played bass and Pepé played rhythm guitar. On If You Feel Like Dancin', Prince is on keyboards and guitar. One Man Jam, André Cymone is on bass and Prince "went crazy" playing everything else. Pepé added synthesizer parts in the overdub. We guess Prince really wanted to "show them" for Pepés sake.

Songs that were intended to be on For You started being recorded in late 1976:

14-track demo tape, Moonsound, Minneapolis, spring – December 1976 – no known order
Instrumental (7:25) – possibly titled Farnborough
Aces (Prince/Chris Moon)
Diamond Eyes (Prince/Chris Moon)
Don’t Forget (Prince/Chris Moon)
Don’t Hold Back (Prince/Chris Moon)
Fantasy (Prince/Chris Moon)
Love Is Forever #1 (Prince/Chris Moon)
Make It Through the Storm #1 (Prince/Chris Moon)
Piano Intro (0:40)
Soft and Wet #1 (3:22) (Prince/Chris Moon)
Surprise (Prince/Chris Moon)
Baby #1
I’m Yours #1
Jelly Jam #1 (Instrumental)
Leaving for New York #2
Since We’ve Been Together #1
For You #3 (1:19)
For You #4 (1:20)
Outro (0:13)

I know we're drifting a bit off topic but do you know if there's a story behind the sessions with Prince, Andre and Steve Fontana? I've always wondered why he took time off from completing For You to do this session and didn't (as far as I know) use any of the material later. Curious to hear any insights on the Husney's recordings too...

OldFriends4Sale said:

kidmelody2012 said:

Geez.....if he was horrible in the "America" video on the long version when he got behind the drums what makes you think he was good 1978-1981? it was Morris Day folks!!

let's not bash him now come on

He was not horrible at all, and playing electric drums is much different than organic drums

I respectfully disagree and his timing was not rock solid and he holds the sticks to far up.1/3 the back of sticks(butt) should be showing.its called stick control!

don't worry about him, I was going to ask if he was a drummer because it's always other musicians not listeners who nitpick the hell out of you. I'm a musician and I hate musicians because of it. The people like my music when I play, that's never fucking good enough for these kind of pricks though. Anyway, one thing I learned from Prince was not to let anyone do anything because I didn't want the issues he has. I write every note in my music and use midi so I don't have those headaches and believe me bandmates are headaches, how many great bands hate each others guts? It's normal really.

petes2 said:

don't worry about him, I was going to ask if he was a drummer because it's always other musicians not listeners who nitpick the hell out of you. I'm a musician and I hate musicians because of it. The people like my music when I play, that's never fucking good enough for these kind of pricks though. Anyway, one thing I learned from Prince was not to let anyone do anything because I didn't want the issues he has. I write every note in my music and use midi so I don't have those headaches and believe me bandmates are headaches, how many great bands hate each others guts? It's normal really.

pete2 real musicians who criticize are there to help you play the correct way thats all

kidmelody2012 said:

petes2 said:

don't worry about him, I was going to ask if he was a drummer because it's always other musicians not listeners who nitpick the hell out of you. I'm a musician and I hate musicians because of it. The people like my music when I play, that's never fucking good enough for these kind of pricks though. Anyway, one thing I learned from Prince was not to let anyone do anything because I didn't want the issues he has. I write every note in my music and use midi so I don't have those headaches and believe me bandmates are headaches, how many great bands hate each others guts? It's normal really.

pete2 real musicians who criticize are there to help you play the correct way thats all

that's not true, nearly all of them are trying to put you down to exalt themselves. I've been a musician longer than you probably. Musicians are as catty as women and you'll never convince me that women are bitching about other women to help them. that's all.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Reading on how many of the songs were created I can understand how people could go uncredited.

It truly is not that hard. Trust me, it was intentional that all those credits were left out. I also will probably bet that there are records and Prince wouldn't (like when he had the opportunity to change the credits when the cd versions first rolled out)/couldn't be bothered to change any of it now/ever.

At the end of the day, i am not taking away from the absolute sheer force of magic that is Prince. He is up there with the greatest of the greats no doubt about it at all. But lets just face the facts, he can be quite fishy, and secretive, and illusive about many things. This being one of them. There is nothing wrong with stating our feelings. I just cannot listen to "Soft & Wet" (those verse drums are pretty goofy) and "I'm Yours" back to back and believe they are the same drummer. Prince's drumming back then had this quirky, cute, almost child-like enthusiasm quality to it. He also loves using that damn hihat on every single song. (which he still does to this day: Prettyman, Musicology, Lolita, to name a few off the top of my head) So it's pretty noticable when he drums. Again, no disrespect to Prince. Love that man!

oceancrayon said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It truly is not that hard. Trust me, it was intentional that all those credits were left out. I also will probably bet that there are records and Prince wouldn't (like when he had the opportunity to change the credits when the cd versions first rolled out)/couldn't be bothered to change any of it now/ever.

At the end of the day, i am not taking away from the absolute sheer force of magic that is Prince. He is up there with the greatest of the greats no doubt about it at all. But lets just face the facts, he can be quite fishy, and secretive, and illusive about many things. This being one of them. There is nothing wrong with stating our feelings. I just cannot listen to "Soft & Wet" (those verse drums are pretty goofy) and "I'm Yours" back to back and believe they are the same drummer. Prince's drumming back then had this quirky, cute, almost child-like enthusiasm quality to it. He also loves using that damn hihat on every single song. (which he still does to this day: Prettyman, Musicology, Lolita, to name a few off the top of my head) So it's pretty noticable when he drums. Again, no disrespect to Prince. Love that man!

well, i have to say, I'm yours musically stands out from the rest of that album, but I honestly never thought about him having standins do parts or any of that. Wouldn't say it's impossible but I just someone would have ratted him out by now.

Giovanni777 said:

I realize that the scope and breadth of Prince's talent is so vast that it can lead to this kind of thinking, but come on folks.

Prince has given FAR more credit for things he did than credit he's taken for things he didn't.

TRUE.

.

[Edited 8/9/12 14:23pm]

thebanishedone said:

I highjly doubt that Kid Melodie plays any instrument,judged by his childish immature comments on org

actuallly I play 7 professionally so you are kinda right!been playing for 35 years

kidmelody2012 said:

thebanishedone said:

I highjly doubt that Kid Melodie plays any instrument,judged by his childish immature comments on org

actuallly I play 7 professionally so you are kinda right!been playing for 35 years

see I knew it. playing longer than me I gotta admit, doesn't change the fact that you've got that attitude. I had a music teacher when I was younger and he'd run down anyone who had any more success than him, I never paid it much attention til after our association, Andrew Lloyd Weber, George Winston, anyone above ground was fair game the Bernsteins and so forth he didn't talk shit about. Then, it looked for a minute that I might be getting my shot, overnight in his mind I went from a talented guy to "you don't even have a career", or "i was watching american Idol last night and I thought about you". Guys like that have to go, I don't entertain the shit, don't have time for it and I can see it in a minute, I don't argue with them, I just get rid of em. Sad fact is, Prince and the big names have more success than us and 99.99999999 percent of musicians, that hurts your ego doesn't it? I was around pro fighters for many years and when people ask about what it was like I'd say, both groups are bad as far as ego but Musicians are way worse by and large. Hard to believe but true.

Prince didn't play anything from birth up until now it was all me! There I said it!!!