thebanishedone said:

I know it's Michael Bland playing drums on the Gold album version.Is it Prince on the original single version?

The album version and the single version are exactly the same. The album version is edited to give folks something different. I would say, as a drummer, that it is NOT Michael Bland on either version. Michael Bland is a HARD hitter whereas that track is being performed by someone with a much lighter touch on the snare drum. Also, Michael Bland tends to play right in the middle of the beat and on the recording of TMBGITW the snare hits on the backbeat, (two and four) have a very slight behind-the-beat quality. There is really nothing technically complex about the playing, either. Whenever Mchale B. is turned loose in the studio for a solo, (Shhh..., the xtended She Spoke Me, ect...) he plays some stuff that you can be fairly certain is way out of Prince's curent skill level. Not his level to conceptualize, but to perform. TMBGITW is great, but there is nothing to suggest it's Michael B. and there are a few things to suggest it isn't.

I could be wrong, though. I seem to remember being positive Michael B. played drums on Billy Jack Bitch but I'm pretty sure I read an interview with Barbarella where he said that Prince played those drums and did a lot of editing on the track because for whatever reason he wasn't getting it done in one full take.

It's hard to say with 100% certainty, but I'm 99% sure it's Prince.

steakfinger said:

Nice lil tidbit

theres more going on with the hi hat on the single version (beautiful experience ep) where the album version the hi hat is just straight on the beat. the album version drums have a number of breaks during the verse with clock sound ('how can i get through days when i cant get through hours') while the single version just keeps going straight. thats 2 of the obvious differences to me. the breaks in the album version could make me say its michael b, they fit his style to me, but i dont know for a fact. as for the single, i could see how prince would be more straight forward without all the breaks, but again... i dont know. but yes, they are 2 completely different drum tracks.

"Also, Michael Bland tends to play right in the middle of the beat and on the recording of TMBGITW the snare hits on the backbeat, (two and four) have a very slight behind-the-beat quality."

i think you wanna sound interesting, but this is bull.

Almost every song has the snare on two and four and dont u think prince decides where to put the snare, sure he can improvise in between.

Michael B. had a really recognizable style during that period and the fills on both versions of TMBGITW sound like Michael B.

I have no idea what steakfinger is trying to convey there.

SpookyElektrix said:

"Also, Michael Bland tends to play right in the middle of the beat and on the recording of TMBGITW the snare hits on the backbeat, (two and four) have a very slight behind-the-beat quality."

i think you wanna sound interesting, but this is bull.

Almost every song has the snare on two and four and dont u think prince decides where to put the snare, sure he can improvise in between.

it may you that wants to sound interesting.

hes not saying anything about WHAT beat they are played on. 3 different drummers can play the same exact beat hitting the snare on 2 and 4, but with a slightly different feel. some play on the beat, some behind the beat, some ahead of the beat. its a very subtle thing that many people wouldnt even notice, but can change the whole feeling of a song.

[Edited 7/3/12 7:26am]

Well, any professional drummer should be able to play with different feels even if they would favour a certain style themselves. The snare hits being slightly "off" on some track does not "prove" that Michael B. is not playing on it.

savagedreams said:

SpookyElektrix said:

"Also, Michael Bland tends to play right in the middle of the beat and on the recording of TMBGITW the snare hits on the backbeat, (two and four) have a very slight behind-the-beat quality."

i think you wanna sound interesting, but this is bull.

Almost every song has the snare on two and four and dont u think prince decides where to put the snare, sure he can improvise in between.

it may you that wants to sound interesting.

hes not saying anything about WHAT beat they are played on. 3 different drummers can play the same exact beat hitting the snare on 2 and 4, but with a slightly different feel. some play on the beat, some behind the beat, some ahead of the beat. its a very subtle thing that many people wouldnt even notice, but can change the whole feeling of a song.

[Edited 7/3/12 7:26am]

Prince loves hitting the snare just slightly behind the normal beat point of 2 & 4. I've noticed this on tons of songs. It makes the beat sound more funky.

And it's true that Micheal Bland hits the drums right on the beat, and has been criticized in one review of a concert as having too much machine gun precision that was detrimental to the sound.

He's also featured in the video as the drummer (not that it means anything) but the naked ear can tell it's all bland. I also saw him play it live at glam slam in 94 & it sounded like it did on record.

Farfunknugin said:

He's also featured in the video as the drummer (not that it means anything) but the naked ear can tell it's all bland. I also saw him play it live at glam slam in 94 & it sounded like it did on record.

Yup!

Then the real ? is then, who plays the drums on the "Mustang Mix 96". Pysche

BigChick said:

Then the real ? is then, who plays the drums on the "Mustang Mix 96". Pysche

The REGULAR Mustang Mix is an Onyx sample, believe it or not. I don't remember what song, but it's the tail end of the song. That grunt on the 1 is actually one of the members.

Clearly that's Michael Bland...

steakfinger said:

Whenever Mchale B. is turned loose in the studio for a solo, (Shhh..., the xtended She Spoke Me, ect...) he plays some stuff that you can be fairly certain is way out of Prince's curent skill level. Not his level to conceptualize, but to perform. TMBGITW is great, but there is nothing to suggest it's Michael B. and there are a few things to suggest it isn't.

But the fills at the end of TGE version (where Prince starts singing at a pitch only dogs can hear) are exactly as you describe: Bland turning loose and way out of Prince's skill level.

It has to be Bland on the track.

As for the single version it's less obvious but the snare & tom hits kicking into the intro are so clean and clear, and so unlike Prince's style that I'd say it was B also.

Spinlight said:

Farfunknugin said:

He's also featured in the video as the drummer (not that it means anything) but the naked ear can tell it's all bland. I also saw him play it live at glam slam in 94 & it sounded like it did on record.

Yup!

Nope. It's an easy drum track to play. Any semi-professional could do it.

jayARDAHB said:

Hey, It you can't hear the difference between the single version and the album version, you may want to get your ears checked. The keys on the album version are different and the arrangement has many more starts and stops. Ricky Peterson plays keys on the single version. Bland plays drums on he album version - it's just so damn obvious! Same lead vocal though. J [Edited 7/2/12 14:47pm]

Hey, I can hear things you probably cannot. Yes, it's totally different arrangement. The basic tracks are the same, however. The only differences in the drum tracks are when the starts and stops occur. The mix is totally diffeent, too. The bass is much louder, (and therefore easier to dicern as a fretless bass) the drums are less defined. I said it was EDITED. The "it" was the drums. If you don't know anything about recording you don't need to be talking smack about to someone who does. The vocal tracks are identical on both versions even though the music changes considerably beneath. It is easy to take those tracks, cut parts out and replace them. Hell, the track Gett Off has multiple drum tracks blended in such a way to where Michael B. couldn't tell if the track he played on it was even in the final version. I could drop a Michael B. drum track in Pro-Tools and make him sound like a beginner. Tommy Barbarella has confirmed in at least one interview that Prince edited his own drum tracks to accomplish whatever effect he was trying to get that he couldn't by just playing the damned things.

djfine said:

But the fills at the end of TGE version (where Prince starts singing at a pitch only dogs can hear) are exactly as you describe: Bland turning loose and way out of Prince's skill level.

Nay. Even if it is Bland, (I DID say I was not 100%) TMBGITW is not him turning loose. That is no one turning loose. A child could play those fills. That doesn't make them bad or unmusical, but there isn't a drummer in the house who would freak about them.

novabrkr said:

Well, any professional drummer should be able to play with different feels even if they would favour a certain style themselves. The snare hits being slightly "off" on some track does not "prove" that Michael B. is not playing on it.

I said I was not 100%, but here's my idea of evidence. And I still think I'm right.

novabrkr said:

Michael B. had a really recognizable style during that period and the fills on both versions of TMBGITW sound like Michael B.

I have no idea what steakfinger is trying to convey there.

The fills on the single version are typical of 50,000,000 drummers. In fact, I think there's really only 1 fill on that version, (2 snare hits and a rack tom) that has been around in pop music since Motown and if you watch the Standing in the Shadows of Motown documentary you can find out the name of the guy who invented the damned fill.

I'm trying to answer the OP's question and I'm giving him/her what I think has likely happened along with the disclaimer that I am not 100% but here's why I think what I think in my actually educated opinion.

SpookyElektrix said:

"Also, Michael Bland tends to play right in the middle of the beat and on the recording of TMBGITW the snare hits on the backbeat, (two and four) have a very slight behind-the-beat quality."

i think you wanna sound interesting, but this is bull.

Almost every song has the snare on two and four and dont u think prince decides where to put the snare, sure he can improvise in between.

Don't try to talk about music in technical terms when you know not of what you speak. You sound like an absolute moron here.

Timmy84 said:

Clearly that's Michael Bland...

It is not clear, hence the debate.

djfine said:

As for the single version it's less obvious but the snare & tom hits kicking into the intro are so clean and clear, and so unlike Prince's style that I'd say it was B also.

Prince sounds clean and clear when the drummer in his band has his kit sounding that way. Prince plays on whatever is in the studio. On Musicology it is very clear that he is playing on Blackwell's kit on limp-wristed drum performances like Cinnamon Girl and Reflection. Especially on Reflection where there is an extremely out-of-tune rack tom that sounds exactly like a Tama Starclassic in need of tweaking. I've recorded on one myself and anytime I hear Blackwell I know his kit. It's not magic or trying to sound smart - it's just having ears.

So IF it's Prince, he's playing Michael B.'s kit and of course it's gonna sound cleaner than someone else's because B. was all about keeping his drums tuned and perfect.

[Edited 7/5/12 8:51am]

steakfinger said:

steakfinger said:

Timmy84 said:

Clearly that's Michael Bland...

It is not clear, hence the debate.

But I don't know how y'all came to the conclusion that Prince was drumming on the released version...

steakfinger said:

novabrkr said:

Michael B. had a really recognizable style during that period and the fills on both versions of TMBGITW sound like Michael B.

I have no idea what steakfinger is trying to convey there.

The fills on the single version are typical of 50,000,000 drummers.

No, they are not.

novabrkr said:

steakfinger said:

The fills on the single version are typical of 50,000,000 drummers.

No, they are not.

Don't roll your eyes at me, child.

Yes, "they" are. There is one fill on the single version and the stuff in the pre-chorus is probably what most folks would call hits, (accents using nothing but the kick drum and cymbals - the snare stays firmly on the 2 and 4 - AKA the backbeat)

One fill. Two snare hits, (sixteenth notes) occupying the first half of beat 4 followed by a single rack tom hit on the up beat of beat 4. Perfect for the song. Totally musical and above reproach. Nothing remotely difficult, however, and it first appeared on a zillion Motown hits. This part is not up for interpretation. You can listen to the song and you can transcribe the drum track - I have. It took about 5 minute due to all simplicity and repetition. There's no debating it. It is what it is.

I'm an educated musician and a critical thinker. That doesn't mean I know everything, but my opinions on matters of music come from a place other than hero worship and wishful thinking.

Timmy84 said:

steakfinger said:

It is not clear, hence the debate.

But I don't know how y'all came to the conclusion that Prince was drumming on the released version...

I don't necessarily think it's Prince. I made an educated guess based on what seems like some pretty compelling evidence. The reason I think it might be Prince is that in the studio with that band, if there are live drums involved we know that it was either Prince or Michael Bland. There may have been others, but we don't know that. We obviously can't know everythign that went on, but here's one example of how things worked at the time -

On the recording of Gett Off, Michael Bland proclaimed in print that it was a hard track to get the drums "right" on. He gave it a try and then Prince gave it a try. Prince wasn't happy with how it was going. Michael Bland claimed that he himself has no idea if on the final product it is him, Prince, drum machines or a mixture of all three.

There hasn't been any mention that I'm aware of that anyone other than Prince or Michael Bland played drums during that time.

The drum programming is anyone's guess. The live drums are pretty easy to tell. Michael Bland is a HEAVY hitter. You can hear the drum heads really bending. The cymbals are being hit HARD. There's a certain feel in the backbeat that is obvious to anyone who's played the drums for more than a couple of years. I can say with absolute certain that Michael Bland played drums on every live drum track on TGE with the POSSIBLE exceptions of TMBGITW and BJB. I feel pretty confident that Michael Bland did NOT play on TWBGITW, (but as I said I'm not 100%) and Tommy Barbarella has said in print that Prince played drums on BJB with some heavy editing after the fact.