1725topp said:

2elijah said:

Thanks for responding. I think it was the material given to them that kept them on the 'pop mainstream' level. Both Houston and Summer had the capabilities to be soul singers if they had chosen to fully go that route. I'm not sure if I could have seen Donna going as hard as Whitney, as a soul singer. Whitney was brought up in the church, and sang in church, and already had the skills to sing in a soulful style, but she also, had a softness to her voice, as well, that could carry various vocal styles, and sing various, types of songs. Now I don't think I could have ever seen Whitney like an 'Aretha-type of soul singer, but I also don't see her straining her voice had she chosen to sing more 'soul' or 'gospel' type songs. To me, Donna pretty much always seemed to have the 'same' sound when she sang, which was easy to recognize. I forgot to add Mariah Carey to the list, as she could definitely carry a note, and has a high vocal range. I would say she can sing with some 'soul' when she wants to as well, but more or less is a 'pop mainstream' singer.

I kind of miss the 'natural' styles that some singers just don't have today. There's just too much 'noise' in their music, and you can't 'hear' them, so-to-speak. Now Amy Whinehouse had some soul, no question about it and knew how to rock it, despite the personal hardships she experienced during her lifetime. Her voice was so natural, and complimented the music within the songs she sung.

Now getting back to Liv/Shel/Elisa, you can clearly hear their talent when they sing. Liv and Shelby's voice is so natural, strong, and pulls you in. They put the 'soul' in the songs they sing, much like how many singers back in the day, used to sing. Elisa's voice is a bit softer, but she compliments bgth Liv's and Shel's voice when all 3 harmonize together, and those are the types of voices, as singers, I appreciate, because neither of them sounds manufactured, like how some record execs try to pass off as talent today.

You are on point with what you say, and I think hip hop also has had a negative effect on soul singing in general. On another listserv, I angered a lot of people when I stated that hip hop has been good for hip hop but bad for the musicality (instrumentation and singing) of black music. As hip hop has become the focal point (major seller) of black music, it has limited instrumentation and well-rounded singing so that the best R&B, Soul, and Funk musicians and singers are almost exclusively in the church or on the gospel circuit because that is one of the few places that most black musicians and true singers have an opportunity to explore and reach their technical potential and earn a living. And as it relates to Prince, so many fans want to put Prince in this nice little box of being just a rocker or just a pop star that they resent when he does what he has always done--break the boundaries of the boxes and mix as much as he can, which includes soul and gospel. Thus, most, not all, of the fans annoyed by Shelby's, Liv's, and Elisa's voice are really annoyed that Prince is actively embracing a soul and gospel sound as much as he embraces all other sounds.

I absolutely agree with you regarding hip-hop. I feel that genre of music when it came out, just about killed or limited the careers of many popular Black r&b/pop/soul singers and musicians, at that time, just like how Disco/Dance music silenced musicians of the 60s era, (primarily the romance/soul Black groups), and when funk/pop/new wave took over in the late 70s to mid 70s, it pretty much sent the Disco era packing. It was clear though, that Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, and Rick James, pretty much ruled the industry in the mid to late 80s, until various forms of rap (socio-political, gangsta), took over, and many of the pop/r&b artists were struggling to survive in that era, even to the point where some intergrated rap into their owh music to stay on board.

When I hear a new artist today, with a distinct sound. I appreciate them, because if feels good to not hear music with so much 'clutter' around the singer's voice, and I'm able to pay close attention to the lyrics, message in the song. When I say clutter, well, turn on radio station Z100 in NYC (you can find it online) and you will see what I mean. I think they're actually called Zoo 100 and that's exactly what the music they play on that station sounds like....day at the zoo.

As far as Prince incorporating the r&b, gospel-flavored sounds in his music, thank goodness he does, because the industry today, ignores so many Black artists who have the talent for that form of music and can capture that sound, but get passed over, unless there's already an established artist who can get those artists' talents noticed, which is what Prince seems to be doing for various artists these days, not just Black artists of course, but artists/musicians from various racial and music backgrounds, and showcasing their talents during his tours or inviting them to be part of his band.

If some fans are annoyed with the talents of some of his background singers or the fact that Prince embraces the 'soul' or 'gospel' sound, and incorporates that in some of his music, well some fans need to remember that they don't get to call the shots as to what type of sound Prince is looking for, when he hires musicians/artists, and also should remember that Prince never surrendered to one, particular form of music as well.

So why would some of his fans think they have some special privilege to put limitations on what type of sound, Prince can present within his music, when Prince pretty much never put limitations on the 'sound or style' of his own music?

'Spelling edit'

[Edited 6/2/12 8:39am]

2elijah said:

I absolutely agree with you regarding hip-hop. I feel that genre of music when it came out, just about killed or limited the careers of many popular Black r&b/pop/soul singers and musicians, at that time, just like how Disco/Dance music silenced musicians of the 60s era, (primarily the romance/soul Black groups), and when funk/pop/new wave took over in the late 70s to mid 70s, it pretty much sent the Disco era packing. It was clear though, that Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, and Rick James, pretty much ruled the industry in the mid to late 80s, until various forms of rap (socio-political, gangsta), took over, and many of the pop/r&b artists were struggling to survive in that era, even to the point where some intergrated rap into their owh music to stay on board.

When I hear a new artist today, with a distinct sound. I appreciate them, because if feels good to not hear music with so much 'clutter' around the singer's voice, and I'm able to pay close attention to the lyrics, message in the song. When I say clutter, well, turn on radio station Z100 in NYC (you can find it online) and you will see what I mean. I think they're actually called Zoo 100 and that's exactly what the music they play on that station sounds like....day at the zoo.

As far as Prince incorporating the r&b, gospel-flavored sounds in his music, thank goodness he does, because the industry today, ignores so many Black artists who have the talent for that form of music and can capture that sound, but get passed over, unless there's already an established artist who can get those artists' talents noticed, which is what Prince seems to be doing for various artists these days, not just Black artists of course, but artists/musicians from various racial and music backgrounds, and showcasing their talents during his tours or inviting them to be part of his band.

If some fans are annoyed with the talents of some of his background singers or the fact that Prince embraces the 'soul' or 'gospel' sound, and incorporates that in some of his music, well some fans need to remember that they don't get to call the shots as to what type of sound Prince is looking for, when he hires musicians/artists, and also should remember that Prince never surrendered to one, particular form of music as well.

So why would some of his fans think they have some special privilege to put limitations on what type of sound, Prince can present within his music, when Prince pretty much never put limitations on the 'sound or style' of his own music?

Exactly, this realization was made for me years ago with Around the World in a Day. I was a teenager awaiting Purple Rain II, when Prince blew my mind with something completely different. So while I loved ATWIAD, I also realized that "this dude is on his own journey, and there may come a day when his musical or socio-political journey may not be the same as mine," so I'm not surprised or annoyed by anything Prince does because even after his first three albums he had already served notice that he would be playing by his own rules. And, thus, I enjoy what pleases my personal aesthetic and don't waste time bemoaning or wishing that all of his art appealed to my personal aesthetic nor do I waste time asserting that he is coasting or has lost it because his aesthetic may not appeal to my personal tastes. I am just glad that he still creates enough work that I love and that there are still way more pros than cons to listening to his music or seeing him live. And if the time comes when there are more cons than pros to listening to his music or seeing him live, I hope that I am objective enough to differentiate between an issue of personal taste and a decline in Prince’s level of excellence (art and work ethic).

1725topp said:

2elijah said:

I absolutely agree with you regarding hip-hop. I feel that genre of music when it came out, just about killed or limited the careers of many popular Black r&b/pop/soul singers and musicians, at that time, just like how Disco/Dance music silenced musicians of the 60s era, (primarily the romance/soul Black groups), and when funk/pop/new wave took over in the late 70s to mid 70s, it pretty much sent the Disco era packing. It was clear though, that Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, and Rick James, pretty much ruled the industry in the mid to late 80s, until various forms of rap (socio-political, gangsta), took over, and many of the pop/r&b artists were struggling to survive in that era, even to the point where some intergrated rap into their owh music to stay on board.

When I hear a new artist today, with a distinct sound. I appreciate them, because if feels good to not hear music with so much 'clutter' around the singer's voice, and I'm able to pay close attention to the lyrics, message in the song. When I say clutter, well, turn on radio station Z100 in NYC (you can find it online) and you will see what I mean. I think they're actually called Zoo 100 and that's exactly what the music they play on that station sounds like....day at the zoo.

As far as Prince incorporating the r&b, gospel-flavored sounds in his music, thank goodness he does, because the industry today, ignores so many Black artists who have the talent for that form of music and can capture that sound, but get passed over, unless there's already an established artist who can get those artists' talents noticed, which is what Prince seems to be doing for various artists these days, not just Black artists of course, but artists/musicians from various racial and music backgrounds, and showcasing their talents during his tours or inviting them to be part of his band.

If some fans are annoyed with the talents of some of his background singers or the fact that Prince embraces the 'soul' or 'gospel' sound, and incorporates that in some of his music, well some fans need to remember that they don't get to call the shots as to what type of sound Prince is looking for, when he hires musicians/artists, and also should remember that Prince never surrendered to one, particular form of music as well.

So why would some of his fans think they have some special privilege to put limitations on what type of sound, Prince can present within his music, when Prince pretty much never put limitations on the 'sound or style' of his own music?

Exactly, this realization was made for me years ago with Around the World in a Day. I was a teenager awaiting Purple Rain II, when Prince blew my mind with something completely different. So while I loved ATWIAD, I also realized that "this dude is on his own journey, and there may come a day when his musical or socio-political journey may not be the same as mine," so I'm not surprised or annoyed by anything Prince does because even after his first three albums he had already served notice that he would be playing by his own rules. And, thus, I enjoy what pleases my personal aesthetic and don't waste time bemoaning or wishing that all of his art appealed to my personal aesthetic nor do I waste time asserting that he is coasting or has lost it because his aesthetic may not appeal to my personal tastes. I am just glad that he still creates enough work that I love and that there are still way more pros than cons to listening to his music or seeing him live. And if the time comes when there are more cons than pros to listening to his music or seeing him live, I hope that I am objective enough to differentiate between an issue of personal taste and a decline in Prince’s level of excellence (art and work ethic).

Good points (bolded parts). It was noticeable from the start he was on his own journey re: his music. This is why it surprises me that some fans want to wrap him up and keep him in their own box, and then take him out when they want to fill a personal void, and expect him to be the same, while not even recognizing that they themselves have grown older, so how do they expect him to stay the same, not move on or not go in different directions with his music, when the state of music changes all the time?

Some artists of his era gave up, were afraid to try new directions with their music and pretty much the reason why they simply disappeared from the scene, while Prince stayed in the game, and found various ways to distribute his music, while not solely dependent on record labels, and at the same time, still maintains a large, international fan base. He also has succeeded in maintaining his household name, and as a musician/artist, is widely-respected by musicians/artists prior to his time period, as well as the musicians/artists that surfaced from the time Prince started to present day. Yet some of those artists that surfaced in between Prince's era, and some of present day, have 'fizzled' out, have no classics, and are now 'flat' out of the scene, and forgotten, while Prince's name remains recognizable, and is still a world, reknown musician/artist who can still fill arenas, at a very short notice, and so what does that tell you? He knows how to play the game, and that is why he has succeeded in having a 30-year plus music career.

[Edited 6/2/12 14:03pm]

2elijah said:

It was noticeable from the start he was on his own journey re: his music. This is why it surprises me that some fans want to wrap him up and keep him in their own box, and then take him out when they want to fill a personal void, and expect him to be the same, while not even recognizing that they themselves have grown older, so how do they expect him to stay the same, not move on or not go in different directions with his music, when the state of music changes all the time?

Some artists of his era gave up, were afraid to try new directions with their music and pretty much the reason why they simply disappeared from the scene, while Prince stayed in the game, and found various ways to distribute his music, while not solely dependent on record labels, and at the same time, still maintains a large, international fan base. He also has succeeded in maintaining his household name, and as a musician/artist, is widely-respected by musicians/artists prior to his time period, as well as the musicians/artists that surfaced from the time Prince started to present day. Yet some of those artists that surfaced in between Prince's era, and some of present day, have 'fizzled' out, have no classics, and are now 'flat' out of the scene, and forgotten, while Prince's name remains recognizable, and is still a world, reknown musician/artist who can still fill arenas, at a very short notice, and so what does that tell you? He knows how to play the game, and that is why he has succeeded in having a 30-year plus music career.

And that puts the bow on the gift for me.

I'm glad I came back to this thread. Some valid points that I hadn't ever considered--thank you. The talent of these current singers is clear; I still wonder about the balance in sound, not as a trio of female vocalists or as soloists, but as backup to Prince's voice on Prince songs, particularly on the older material whose original style (i.e. how these songs sound on the albums) sometimes feels incongruous with the style Prince may be playing with now... Around and around the argument goes... Still, maybe my brain and ears need a reboot.

PS: Z100 tortured my soul when I was living in NY. Definitely sounded like a zoo. I got road rage from my own radio!

2elijah said:

1725topp said:

You are on point with what you say, and I think hip hop also has had a negative effect on soul singing in general. On another listserv, I angered a lot of people when I stated that hip hop has been good for hip hop but bad for the musicality (instrumentation and singing) of black music. As hip hop has become the focal point (major seller) of black music, it has limited instrumentation and well-rounded singing so that the best R&B, Soul, and Funk musicians and singers are almost exclusively in the church or on the gospel circuit because that is one of the few places that most black musicians and true singers have an opportunity to explore and reach their technical potential and earn a living. And as it relates to Prince, so many fans want to put Prince in this nice little box of being just a rocker or just a pop star that they resent when he does what he has always done--break the boundaries of the boxes and mix as much as he can, which includes soul and gospel. Thus, most, not all, of the fans annoyed by Shelby's, Liv's, and Elisa's voice are really annoyed that Prince is actively embracing a soul and gospel sound as much as he embraces all other sounds.

I absolutely agree with you regarding hip-hop. I feel that genre of music when it came out, just about killed or limited the careers of many popular Black r&b/pop/soul singers and musicians, at that time, just like how Disco/Dance music silenced musicians of the 60s era, (primarily the romance/soul Black groups), and when funk/pop/new wave took over in the late 70s to mid 70s, it pretty much sent the Disco era packing. It was clear though, that Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, and Rick James, pretty much ruled the industry in the mid to late 80s, until various forms of rap (socio-political, gangsta), took over, and many of the pop/r&b artists were struggling to survive in that era, even to the point where some intergrated rap into their owh music to stay on board.

When I hear a new artist today, with a distinct sound. I appreciate them, because if feels good to not hear music with so much 'clutter' around the singer's voice, and I'm able to pay close attention to the lyrics, message in the song. When I say clutter, well, turn on radio station Z100 in NYC (you can find it online) and you will see what I mean. I think they're actually called Zoo 100 and that's exactly what the music they play on that station sounds like....day at the zoo.

As far as Prince incorporating the r&b, gospel-flavored sounds in his music, thank goodness he does, because the industry today, ignores so many Black artists who have the talent for that form of music and can capture that sound, but get passed over, unless there's already an established artist who can get those artists' talents noticed, which is what Prince seems to be doing for various artists these days, not just Black artists of course, but artists/musicians from various racial and music backgrounds, and showcasing their talents during his tours or inviting them to be part of his band.

If some fans are annoyed with the talents of some of his background singers or the fact that Prince embraces the 'soul' or 'gospel' sound, and incorporates that in some of his music, well some fans need to remember that they don't get to call the shots as to what type of sound Prince is looking for, when he hires musicians/artists, and also should remember that Prince never surrendered to one, particular form of music as well.

So why would some of his fans think they have some special privilege to put limitations on what type of sound, Prince can present within his music, when Prince pretty much never put limitations on the 'sound or style' of his own music?

'Spelling edit'

[Edited 6/2/12 8:39am]

I don't think the industry is ignoring soul/gospelish singers/singing at all. On the contrary every time I turn around it's being duplicated. Sorta a good thing, sorta a bad thing. I was watching American idol and it seems EVERYONE male and female when it was their turn did that style and sound.

Prince has always embraced the soul/gospel sound, that's nothing new. I ask, what is actually defining soul, because no one is going to tell me Sade doesn't sing 'soul' music, but she definately doesn't "blow" or do the more gospelish type singing. Prince has always incorporated it to different degrees.

What he is doing on his live shows though with those voices, is a lot different from what is done on his albums.

lezama said:

2elijah said:

When Shelby J, Liv and Elisa sang 'Arms of an Angel', that I saw posted in a video that Andy Allo had on her FB page sometime ago, is was amazing the way the 3 of them sang that song

I just relistened to that song with earphones... man. The OWN that song live.. Flawless, seriously flawless, harmonization from all of them. And the way each of them go off at the end... and then Shelby's final high note. OMG. Shit, even if they did an album together just reworking classics I'd buy that. Because I know there'd be some serious sanging on that joint. Whoever started this thread needs to be shot. They dont know music.

Fine, then let them be on their OWN stage singing that shit on their OWN show. It's not something a lot of us hardcores want to hear during a PRINCE show. Plus, the hype man/woman role is just NOT needed.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

lezama said:

I just relistened to that song with earphones... man. The OWN that song live.. Flawless, seriously flawless, harmonization from all of them. And the way each of them go off at the end... and then Shelby's final high note. OMG. Shit, even if they did an album together just reworking classics I'd buy that. Because I know there'd be some serious sanging on that joint. Whoever started this thread needs to be shot. They dont know music.

Fine, then let them be on their OWN stage singing that shit on their OWN show. It's not something a lot of us hardcores want to hear during a PRINCE show. Plus, the hype man/woman role is just NOT needed.

See that's the problem. Because you label yourself a hardcore fan doesn't give you any special privileges to call any shots, no more than a casual fan, and you set yourself up for specific expectations you think you're entitled to, just because you claim you're hardcore, when you have no more special privileges than the average or casual fans.

When you purchase a ticket to a show, there's no entitlements included. If you're a hardcore fan, that apparently means you already know who the bandmembers are who will be performing with him. If you're a hardcore fan who doesn't attends the shows, and don't pay a dime to see them but sit around waiting for someone's review of said shows or depend on illegal bootlegs of the shows, and then get on social media sites, to b*tch, whine and complain, about specific band members surrounding your favorite artist, yet you didn't contribute a dime to any of those shows, then what makes you think you can call the shots and be the captain of somebody's else's ship? It's not your ship, and you're not the captain, regardless if you're a hardcore, casual or occasional fan. You don't know the type of sound a musician is looking for when he hires his band members. If it doesn't work for you, then fine, but as fans we don't get to call the shots. As fans, we make the personal choice to be a fan, no one is forced to be one.

'spelling edit'

[Edited 6/3/12 7:01am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

I absolutely agree with you regarding hip-hop. I feel that genre of music when it came out, just about killed or limited the careers of many popular Black r&b/pop/soul singers and musicians, at that time, just like how Disco/Dance music silenced musicians of the 60s era, (primarily the romance/soul Black groups), and when funk/pop/new wave took over in the late 70s to mid 70s, it pretty much sent the Disco era packing. It was clear though, that Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, and Rick James, pretty much ruled the industry in the mid to late 80s, until various forms of rap (socio-political, gangsta), took over, and many of the pop/r&b artists were struggling to survive in that era, even to the point where some intergrated rap into their owh music to stay on board.

When I hear a new artist today, with a distinct sound. I appreciate them, because if feels good to not hear music with so much 'clutter' around the singer's voice, and I'm able to pay close attention to the lyrics, message in the song. When I say clutter, well, turn on radio station Z100 in NYC (you can find it online) and you will see what I mean. I think they're actually called Zoo 100 and that's exactly what the music they play on that station sounds like....day at the zoo.

As far as Prince incorporating the r&b, gospel-flavored sounds in his music, thank goodness he does, because the industry today, ignores so many Black artists who have the talent for that form of music and can capture that sound, but get passed over, unless there's already an established artist who can get those artists' talents noticed, which is what Prince seems to be doing for various artists these days, not just Black artists of course, but artists/musicians from various racial and music backgrounds, and showcasing their talents during his tours or inviting them to be part of his band.

If some fans are annoyed with the talents of some of his background singers or the fact that Prince embraces the 'soul' or 'gospel' sound, and incorporates that in some of his music, well some fans need to remember that they don't get to call the shots as to what type of sound Prince is looking for, when he hires musicians/artists, and also should remember that Prince never surrendered to one, particular form of music as well.

So why would some of his fans think they have some special privilege to put limitations on what type of sound, Prince can present within his music, when Prince pretty much never put limitations on the 'sound or style' of his own music?

'Spelling edit'

[Edited 6/2/12 8:39am]

I don't think the industry is ignoring soul/gospelish singers/singing at all. On the contrary every time I turn around it's being duplicated. Sorta a good thing, sorta a bad thing. I was watching American idol and it seems EVERYONE male and female when it was their turn did that style and sound.

Prince has always embraced the soul/gospel sound, that's nothing new. I ask, what is actually defining soul, because no one is going to tell me Sade doesn't sing 'soul' music, but she definately doesn't "blow" or do the more gospelish type singing. Prince has always incorporated it to different degrees.

What he is doing on his live shows though with those voices, is a lot different from what is done on his albums.

Sade, in my opinion, is more of a smooth jazz singer, with her own special touch of soul, that can't be duplicated. She owns her sound. There are variations of the 'soul' sound. Like Leela James vs Christina Aguilera. Leela's sound is more in depth, deeper, the Al Green, Bill Withers type of soul, compared to Christina's, and the late Tina Marie being on the level of Patti LaBelle, that's just my opinion. Shelby and Liv definitely have the Al Green/Bill Withers/Patti Labelle/Leela James/Aretha, type of soul, that flows naturally, the kind of soul that can't be manufactured or purchased from a cereal box.

[Edited 6/3/12 7:22am]

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think the industry is ignoring soul/gospelish singers/singing at all. On the contrary every time I turn around it's being duplicated. Sorta a good thing, sorta a bad thing. I was watching American idol and it seems EVERYONE male and female when it was their turn did that style and sound.

Prince has always embraced the soul/gospel sound, that's nothing new. I ask, what is actually defining soul, because no one is going to tell me Sade doesn't sing 'soul' music, but she definately doesn't "blow" or do the more gospelish type singing. Prince has always incorporated it to different degrees.

What he is doing on his live shows though with those voices, is a lot different from what is done on his albums.

Sade, in my opinion, is more of a smooth jazz singer, with her own special touch of soul, that can't be duplicated. She owns her sound. There are variations of the 'soul' sound. Like Leela James vs Christina Aguilera. Leela's sound is more in depth, deeper, the Al Green, Bill Withers type of soul, compared to Christina's, and the late Tina Marie being on the level of Patti LaBelle, that's just my opinion. Shelby and Liv definitely have the Al Green/Bill Withers/Patti Labelle/Leela James/Aretha, type of soul, that flows naturally, the kind of soul that can't be manufactured or purchased from a cereal box.

[Edited 6/3/12 7:22am]

Even though Jazz stations will play her, she wouldn't be considered jazz,

It's all weird because so many genre can easily blend into another

I almost fit Anita Baker & Toni Braxton along with Sade, Sade has never boasted having big voice chops, Anita & Toni can take it to another level but not like Whitney or Mariah(who can shatter glass)

Sometimes because of the bigness of the voice I would think that big voice gospel sound can do rock/hard rock well but, it doesn't work like that. Guys who sing rock hard rock tend to be allowed to cut loose with vocals, them and the more gospel type women vocals are 2 of my favs to hear blow. I remember hearing Tamar backed by Prince doing Red Headed StepChild and it being a harder rock song, I don't think she nailed it, there is a different kind of wildness that's needed.

But Whitney on So Emotional did nail it, Janet on Black Cat ( I wish Janet would do a rock album)

I don't mind the back up sngers Prince has I just don't like the featuring, and that leads to Prince doing covers. I would love to hear them lead Prince songs that either he won't sing or from like the Vanity/Apollonia 6 albums or something. He has so much music in his catalogue,

RodeoSchro said:

fantasticjoy said:

There's only room for one diva on his stage.

You don't know how true you are.

I once had dinner with one of Bobby Byrd's sons (can't remember which), who knew Rosie Gaines.

He said Prince let Rosie go because Rosie was a better singer than he was, and it was too noticeable onstage.

If Prince was threatened by Rosie's singing, why did he try to launch a solo career for her (the Paisley Park album WB blocked)?

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Sade, in my opinion, is more of a smooth jazz singer, with her own special touch of soul, that can't be duplicated. She owns her sound. There are variations of the 'soul' sound. Like Leela James vs Christina Aguilera. Leela's sound is more in depth, deeper, the Al Green, Bill Withers type of soul, compared to Christina's, and the late Tina Marie being on the level of Patti LaBelle, that's just my opinion. Shelby and Liv definitely have the Al Green/Bill Withers/Patti Labelle/Leela James/Aretha, type of soul, that flows naturally, the kind of soul that can't be manufactured or purchased from a cereal box.

[Edited 6/3/12 7:22am]

Even though Jazz stations will play her, she wouldn't be considered jazz,

It's all weird because so many genre can easily blend into another

I almost fit Anita Baker & Toni Braxton along with Sade, Sade has never boasted having big voice chops, Anita & Toni can take it to another level but not like Whitney or Mariah(who can shatter glass)

Sometimes because of the bigness of the voice I would think that big voice gospel sound can do rock/hard rock well but, it doesn't work like that. Guys who sing rock hard rock tend to be allowed to cut loose with vocals, them and the more gospel type women vocals are 2 of my favs to hear blow. I remember hearing Tamar backed by Prince doing Red Headed StepChild and it being a harder rock song, I don't think she nailed it, there is a different kind of wildness that's needed.

But Whitney on So Emotional did nail it, Janet on Black Cat ( I wish Janet would do a rock album)

I don't mind the back up sngers Prince has I just don't like the featuring, and that leads to Prince doing covers. I would love to hear them lead Prince songs that either he won't sing or from like the Vanity/Apollonia 6 albums or something. He has so much music in his catalogue,

I'll agree that Sade can fit in the same box as Anita Baker, but Toni Braxton, although she has a smokey, soul sound is more r&b to me. I have heard Sade's songs on smooth jazz stations, so yes, the smooth jazz stations have played her songs as well as Anita's.

As far as the covers, don't you think it is Prince who is the one making the decision to do covers? The blame shouldn't be placed on the backup singers. Besides, they have sung some of his classics with him. I think some fans need to let a musician/artist grow instead of expecting 20 years later for him/her to be the same What kind of growth would that show, if they stayed within the same era, and not try something new? Why limit a musician's/artist's potential for the sake of a fan's selfish reasons for not wanting to see a change in their favorite musician or don't want them to move, collaborate or sing their classics, with new members of their band during live shows? It's not like the original, cut versions of his classics will suddenly non-exist.

He gave us the Dez and Gail era, the W&L era, the Rosie & Cat eras, that alone should tell any fan, apparently he never intended to stay in one box, but some fans seem to want to keep him in their own eras, for their own selfish reasons or pleasures. If he did that, then he would have limited the possibilities and his potential to grow as a musician/artist, and would have ended up like some artists from one of those eras, who couldn't fill 1/4 of an arenatoday.

But apparently he is doing something right, if he could still fill an arena at short notice, regardless if some radio stations are mainly playing his classics. Thing is, you can walk into a mall, a supermarket, into a doctor's office or some other public venue today, and hear a Prince classic playing on the radio. So whether or not he has a totally different band at any given time jn his music career, he's proven, that even after 30-plus years in the industry, he still has it going on.

'Added more, edit'

[Edited 6/3/12 13:42pm]

2elijah said:

See that's the problem. Because you label yourself a hardcore fan doesn't give you any special privileges to call any shots, no more than a casual fan, and you set yourself up for specific expectations you think you're entitled to, just because you claim you're hardcore, when you have no more special privileges than the average or casual fans.

When you purchase a ticket to a show, there's no entitlements included. If you're a hardcore fan, that apparently means you already know who the bandmembers are who will be performing with him. If you're a hardcore fan who doesn't attends the shows, and don't pay a dime to see them but sit around waiting for someone's review of said shows or depend on illegal bootlegs of the shows, and then get on social media sites, to b*tch, whine and complain, about specific band members surrounding your favorite artist, yet you didn't contribute a dime to any of those shows, then what makes you think you can call the shots and be the captain of somebody's else's ship? It's not your ship, and you're not the captain, regardless if you're a hardcore, casual or occasional fan. You don't know the type of sound a musician is looking for when he hires his band members. If it doesn't work for you, then fine, but as fans we don't get to call the shots. As fans, we make the personal choice to be a fan, no one is forced to be one.

Well written! And, if one was really a hardcore fan one would know that change is the only consistent thing about Prince. A real hardcore fan knows that one enters or engages on a musical journey with Prince at one’s own risk of not liking the next change or movement. But rather than hating the guy for that I would think that he would be applauded for following his own muse. Finally, he may not have been using the big gospel sound as much or to the degree or as emphasized or defined as now, but seeds of it were always there. And like seeds, this particular sound grew and became more of what he wanted to express. You either like it or you don't, but it doesn't mean that he has lost it or is in a rut or is coasting because he no longer appeals to someone else's personal tastes.

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Even though Jazz stations will play her, she wouldn't be considered jazz,

It's all weird because so many genre can easily blend into another

I almost fit Anita Baker & Toni Braxton along with Sade, Sade has never boasted having big voice chops, Anita & Toni can take it to another level but not like Whitney or Mariah(who can shatter glass)

Sometimes because of the bigness of the voice I would think that big voice gospel sound can do rock/hard rock well but, it doesn't work like that. Guys who sing rock hard rock tend to be allowed to cut loose with vocals, them and the more gospel type women vocals are 2 of my favs to hear blow. I remember hearing Tamar backed by Prince doing Red Headed StepChild and it being a harder rock song, I don't think she nailed it, there is a different kind of wildness that's needed.

But Whitney on So Emotional did nail it, Janet on Black Cat ( I wish Janet would do a rock album)

I don't mind the back up sngers Prince has I just don't like the featuring, and that leads to Prince doing covers. I would love to hear them lead Prince songs that either he won't sing or from like the Vanity/Apollonia 6 albums or something. He has so much music in his catalogue,

I'll agree that Sade can fit in the same box as Anita Baker, but Toni Braxton, although she has a smokey, soul sound is more r&b to me. I have heard Sade's songs on smooth jazz stations, so yes, the smooth jazz stations have played her songs as well as Anita's.

As far as the covers, don't you think it is Prince who is the one making the decision to do covers? The blame shouldn't be placed on the backup singers. Besides, they have sung some of his classics with him. I think some fans need to let a musician/artist grow instead of expecting 20 years later for him/her to be the same What kind of growth would that show, if they stayed within the same era, and not try something new? Why limit a musician's/artist's potential for the sake of a fan's selfish reasons for not wanting to see a change in their favorite musician or don't want them to move, collaborate or sing their classics, with new members of their band during live shows? It's not like the original, cut versions of his classics will suddenly non-exist.

He gave us the Dez and Gail era, the W&L era, the Rosie & Cat eras, that alone should tell any fan, apparently he never intended to stay in one box, but some fans seem to want to keep him in their own eras, for their own selfish reasons or pleasures. If he did that, then he would have limited the possibilities and his potential to grow as a musician/artist, and would have ended up like some artists from one of those eras, who couldn't fill 1/4 of an arenatoday.

But apparently he is doing something right, if he could still fill an arena at short notice, regardless if some radio stations are mainly playing his classics. Thing is, you can walk into a mall, a supermarket, into a doctor's office or some other public venue today, and hear a Prince classic playing on the radio. So whether or not he has a totally different band at any given time jn his music career, he's proven, that even after 30-plus years in the industry, he still has it going on.

'Added more, edit'

[Edited 6/3/12 13:42pm]

Prince does a lot of covers, because he doesn't respect a lot of his music. How much of LotusFlow3r & 20Ten has been played at these Welcome 2 concerts? But he'll play covers

So Many Hits So Little Time... just doesn't fit

I'm not talking about eras, how much of Prince's music has he played from 1995-2005 at the recent shows. He's still mostly playing music from 1980-1987 and then 1990-91

It shouldn't be a big wonder that his continued popularity is not from 1993-2003 it's from the 1978-1990 years.

I don't think there is an arguement that Prince is a good entertainer. I still wish he would feature his music more, and not classics. And I do believe that the singers have some say in influence on playing those covers.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

I'll agree that Sade can fit in the same box as Anita Baker, but Toni Braxton, although she has a smokey, soul sound is more r&b to me. I have heard Sade's songs on smooth jazz stations, so yes, the smooth jazz stations have played her songs as well as Anita's.

As far as the covers, don't you think it is Prince who is the one making the decision to do covers? The blame shouldn't be placed on the backup singers. Besides, they have sung some of his classics with him. I think some fans need to let a musician/artist grow instead of expecting 20 years later for him/her to be the same What kind of growth would that show, if they stayed within the same era, and not try something new? Why limit a musician's/artist's potential for the sake of a fan's selfish reasons for not wanting to see a change in their favorite musician or don't want them to move, collaborate or sing their classics, with new members of their band during live shows? It's not like the original, cut versions of his classics will suddenly non-exist.

He gave us the Dez and Gail era, the W&L era, the Rosie & Cat eras, that alone should tell any fan, apparently he never intended to stay in one box, but some fans seem to want to keep him in their own eras, for their own selfish reasons or pleasures. If he did that, then he would have limited the possibilities and his potential to grow as a musician/artist, and would have ended up like some artists from one of those eras, who couldn't fill 1/4 of an arenatoday.

But apparently he is doing something right, if he could still fill an arena at short notice, regardless if some radio stations are mainly playing his classics. Thing is, you can walk into a mall, a supermarket, into a doctor's office or some other public venue today, and hear a Prince classic playing on the radio. So whether or not he has a totally different band at any given time jn his music career, he's proven, that even after 30-plus years in the industry, he still has it going on.

'Added more, edit'

[Edited 6/3/12 13:42pm]

Prince does a lot of covers, because he doesn't respect a lot of his music. How much of LotusFlow3r & 20Ten has been played at these Welcome 2 concerts? But he'll play covers

So Many Hits So Little Time... just doesn't fit

I'm not talking about eras, how much of Prince's music has he played from 1995-2005 at the recent shows. He's still mostly playing music from 1980-1987 and then 1990-91

It shouldn't be a big wonder that his continued popularity is not from 1993-2003 it's from the 1978-1990 years.

I don't think there is an arguement that Prince is a good entertainer. I still wish he would feature his music more, and not classics. And I do believe that the singers have some say in influence on playing those covers.

Didn't he explain in a previous interview and said something to the effect(paraphrasing) that he does covers as a way of reminding music fans what real music sounds like? So I gather playing covers of other musicians/artists of the 70s/80s/90s, may be part of that agenda, and a tribute to those musicians/artists as well? I'm sure many hear one of those classics he performs from other artist's catalogue, and show interest in who the originator of the song is, and may go out and buy the album. I would never just assume he doesn't respect his own music though, unless those words came out of his mouth himself and he told you that directly, because how else can you draw that type of conclusion unless he told you that himself or said that publically?

If that was the case and he felt that way, it doesn't seem a musician/artist would bother making new music at all, and would just focus entirely on classics, so I just can't buy that theory, that he doesn't respect his current music, especially when during the 3121 Vegas shows, his performances consisted of songs from the 3121 album, which was current material, which included 'Lolita, 3121, Black Sweat, Get on the Boat, Satisfied'. Not to mention he performed 'Te Amo Corazon' and other songs from that album, on the British Awards show as well as, a track from that album at the NAACP Award show sometime in 2005(?). He also performed 'Get on the Boat' at the Bryant Park GMA show in NYC, which was on the 3121 album during that time period. He promoted the songs on the 3121 album heavily during his 3121 Vegas shows and on tv performances.

He has played a handful of tracks from the 20Ten album during his W2A East Coast shows, and 21 Nites in LA, i.e., 'LayDown' and 'Future Soul Song'. He has also played a few tracks from the Lotus3flower album on a tv performance, and another single, that wasn't on any of his current albums, but sang it on another tv show, with Ledisi, Shelby, as part of the background singers, as well as singing 'Somewhere Here On Earth', if I am not mistaken, on Jay Leno's show, (correct if I'm wrong about that song choice on Jay's show).

So how is it you can say he doesn't respect his current material, when he has sung some of that current material within the past 8 years spanning from 2004-2012, with the inclusion of a track or two from the Musicology Album? It's not surprising that when you play to an arena, you play more of the classics, to give your audience some familiarity and audience participation, and throw in 1 or 2 new pieces of new material, but the point is keeping the audience's involvement so they can vibe with the musician/artist. I would say more of the rarities are played at the aftershows/afterjams, where he knows some, if not most of the hardcore fans will show up.

So many hits, so little time, does fit, when you're doing a 90 minute or 2 hour show, and you have fans from various eras from the late 70s - 2000s, who individually have their favorite songs, they hope to hear when they see him perform, but he or no other artist can fufill all the wishes of every fan. You can actually wonder, isn't the reason he puts on a different performance at every show, with a different set list every night, could be one of the ways he tries to include a little bit of everything for the fans? Some groups have the same setlist/program for multiple shows, while Prince does not, which is what makes his shows much more interesting.

[Edited 6/4/12 8:02am]

alexnvrmnd777 said:

lezama said:

I just relistened to that song with earphones... man. The OWN that song live.. Flawless, seriously flawless, harmonization from all of them. And the way each of them go off at the end... and then Shelby's final high note. OMG. Shit, even if they did an album together just reworking classics I'd buy that. Because I know there'd be some serious sanging on that joint. Whoever started this thread needs to be shot. They dont know music.

Fine, then let them be on their OWN stage singing that shit on their OWN show. It's not something a lot of us hardcores want to hear during a PRINCE show. Plus, the hype man/woman role is just NOT needed.

Correct, many "hardcores" don't want to hear them. However I've never seen people bitch about his backup singers at a show during their performance, only on the Org do I hear this from a select vocal few. The fact is, most people enjoy them, even if they agree that they'd prefer to just hear Prince, most do enjoy the songs when Prince rests his vocals. And I think Prince is fine with that.

We all know eventually he's going to change his band lineup again. Lets just enjoy this period for all its worth, cuz if you take it for granted, you never know, he could end up doing full shows of sampler sets or performing only tracks from the NPG albums , and then you'll be reminiscing about how great this period was.

2elijah said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Fine, then let them be on their OWN stage singing that shit on their OWN show. It's not something a lot of us hardcores want to hear during a PRINCE show. Plus, the hype man/woman role is just NOT needed.

See that's the problem. Because you label yourself a hardcore fan doesn't give you any special privileges to call any shots, no more than a casual fan, and you set yourself up for specific expectations you think you're entitled to, just because you claim you're hardcore, when you have no more special privileges than the average or casual fans.

When you purchase a ticket to a show, there's no entitlements included. If you're a hardcore fan, that apparently means you already know who the bandmembers are who will be performing with him. If you're a hardcore fan who doesn't attends the shows, and don't pay a dime to see them but sit around waiting for someone's review of said shows or depend on illegal bootlegs of the shows, and then get on social media sites, to b*tch, whine and complain, about specific band members surrounding your favorite artist, yet you didn't contribute a dime to any of those shows, then what makes you think you can call the shots and be the captain of somebody's else's ship? It's not your ship, and you're not the captain, regardless if you're a hardcore, casual or occasional fan. You don't know the type of sound a musician is looking for when he hires his band members. If it doesn't work for you, then fine, but as fans we don't get to call the shots. As fans, we make the personal choice to be a fan, no one is forced to be one.

'spelling edit'

[Edited 6/3/12 7:01am]

And see that's YOUR problem. No one ever said anything about me being able to "call any shots" or being in charge of the ship. You're the one that said that. All I gave was my opinion, as a hardcore fan. You turned it into something else, which is what most of y'all people do when someone dares to criticize your hero. Instead of looking at what's said, you start having a problem with the fact that I even dared to say something that criticized him. Damn.

I've seen many a concert where the backing singers given a chance (but usually unwillingly), upstage the main artist at times... Now the man may be a hard act to follow... but no one is infallible...

'dre

alexnvrmnd777 said:

2elijah said:

See that's the problem. Because you label yourself a hardcore fan doesn't give you any special privileges to call any shots, no more than a casual fan, and you set yourself up for specific expectations you think you're entitled to, just because you claim you're hardcore, when you have no more special privileges than the average or casual fans.

When you purchase a ticket to a show, there's no entitlements included. If you're a hardcore fan, that apparently means you already know who the bandmembers are who will be performing with him. If you're a hardcore fan who doesn't attends the shows, and don't pay a dime to see them but sit around waiting for someone's review of said shows or depend on illegal bootlegs of the shows, and then get on social media sites, to b*tch, whine and complain, about specific band members surrounding your favorite artist, yet you didn't contribute a dime to any of those shows, then what makes you think you can call the shots and be the captain of somebody's else's ship? It's not your ship, and you're not the captain, regardless if you're a hardcore, casual or occasional fan. You don't know the type of sound a musician is looking for when he hires his band members. If it doesn't work for you, then fine, but as fans we don't get to call the shots. As fans, we make the personal choice to be a fan, no one is forced to be one.

'spelling edit'

[Edited 6/3/12 7:01am]

And see that's YOUR problem. No one ever said anything about me being able to "call any shots" or being in charge of the ship. You're the one that said that. All I gave was my opinion, as a hardcore fan. You turned it into something else, which is what most of y'all people do when someone dares to criticize your hero. Instead of looking at what's said, you start having a problem with the fact that I even dared to say something that criticized him.

I don't recall telling you that you couldn't have an opinion, I stated because you consider yourself a hardcore fan, doesn't mean, as a hardcore fan, you get to pull strings or choose what type of singers or singing style he should present to his audience from his background singers. So I believe you made it more than it was because you let your ego get in the way.

By the way, when someone doesn't agree with your criticism of a musician, doesn't mean they are putting that musician/artist on a pedestal or elevating them to some superior status. It is clear there will be negative/positive criticism regarding any musician/artist from their fans, as that is realistic. We both just have varying opinions of him, and if you disagree with my opinions, that's fine, but there is no crime in disagreeing with your opinion. That is all.

[Edited 6/4/12 12:23pm]

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince does a lot of covers, because he doesn't respect a lot of his music. How much of LotusFlow3r & 20Ten has been played at these Welcome 2 concerts? But he'll play covers

So Many Hits So Little Time... just doesn't fit

I'm not talking about eras, how much of Prince's music has he played from 1995-2005 at the recent shows. He's still mostly playing music from 1980-1987 and then 1990-91

It shouldn't be a big wonder that his continued popularity is not from 1993-2003 it's from the 1978-1990 years.

I don't think there is an arguement that Prince is a good entertainer. I still wish he would feature his music more, and not classics. And I do believe that the singers have some say in influence on playing those covers.

Didn't he explain in a previous interview and said something to the effect(paraphrasing) that he does covers as a way of reminding music fans what real music sounds like? So I gather playing covers of other musicians/artists of the 70s/80s/90s, may be part of that agenda, and a tribute to those musicians/artists as well? I'm sure many hear one of those classics he performs from other artist's catalogue, and show interest in who the originator of the song is, and may go out and buy the album. I would never just assume he doesn't respect his own music though, unless those words came out of his mouth himself and he told you that directly, because how else can you draw that type of conclusion unless he told you that himself or said that publically?

If that was the case and he felt that way, it doesn't seem a musician/artist would bother making new music at all, and would just focus entirely on classics, so I just can't buy that theory, that he doesn't respect his current music, especially when during the 3121 Vegas shows, his performances consisted of songs from the 3121 album, which was current material, which included 'Lolita, 3121, Black Sweat, Get on the Boat, Satisfied'. Not to mention he performed 'Te Amo Corazon' and other songs from that album, on the British Awards show as well as, a track from that album at the NAACP Award show sometime in 2005(?). He also performed 'Get on the Boat' at the Bryant Park GMA show in NYC, which was on the 3121 album during that time period. He promoted the songs on the 3121 album heavily during his 3121 Vegas shows and on tv performances.

He has played a handful of tracks from the 20Ten album during his W2A East Coast shows, and 21 Nites in LA, i.e., 'LayDown' and 'Future Soul Song'. He has also played a few tracks from the Lotus3flower album on a tv performance, and another single, that wasn't on any of his current albums, but sang it on another tv show, with Ledisi, Shelby, as part of the background singers, as well as singing 'Somewhere Here On Earth', if I am not mistaken, on Jay Leno's show, (correct if I'm wrong about that song choice on Jay's show).

So how is it you can say he doesn't respect his current material, when he has sung some of that current material within the past 8 years spanning from 2004-2012, with the inclusion of a track or two from the Musicology Album? It's not surprising that when you play to an arena, you play more of the classics, to give your audience some familiarity and audience participation, and throw in 1 or 2 new pieces of new material, but the point is keeping the audience's involvement so they can vibe with the musician/artist. I would say more of the rarities are played at the aftershows/afterjams, where he knows some, if not most of the hardcore fans will show up.

So many hits, so little time, does fit, when you're doing a 90 minute or 2 hour show, and you have fans from various eras from the late 70s - 2000s, who individually have their favorite songs, they hope to hear when they see him perform, but he or no other artist can fufill all the wishes of every fan. You can actually wonder, isn't the reason he puts on a different performance at every show, with a different set list every night, could be one of the ways he tries to include a little bit of everything for the fans? Some groups have the same setlist/program for multiple shows, while Prince does not, which is what makes his shows much more interesting.

[Edited 6/4/12 8:02am]

It just sound like an old soul review at a summer park concert sometimes as far as the aftershows go. I remember listening to the 7.7.2007 'aftershow' at 1st Avenue and it sounded like that, not prince music

Again his music is classic, he has music from 1976 that he never plays

Just play your music, there are enough people at all kinds of shows playing that music or most of the times their own.

Unless you really announce who made the song and when you're not really teaching anyone a lesson.

I can draw that conclusion by the fact that he doesn't even play 90% of his music, especially when a recently released album isn't even performed live at concerts.

He makes music cause he has too, like a painter paints even if he never showcases it

Of course he will play a song or 2, Yeah on Jay Leno that was during the release of Lotusflower, but Somewhere Here On Earth was from Planet Earth

Go thru his shows from 1979-1995 and then check out how the following concerts began to decrease in playing the current songs from the released album

Lovesexy showcased not only EVERY song from the album but also a B side and unreleased from the Black album, Welcome 2... which was started the same time as 20Ten barely showcases 2 songs and that's only a possibility of it being performed, I think he did Sticky Like Glue once.

No it doesn't fit to me, because at just about every show the same hit's are performed. And even at the Aftershows, that's where a lot of the covers show up

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Didn't he explain in a previous interview and said something to the effect(paraphrasing) that he does covers as a way of reminding music fans what real music sounds like? So I gather playing covers of other musicians/artists of the 70s/80s/90s, may be part of that agenda, and a tribute to those musicians/artists as well? I'm sure many hear one of those classics he performs from other artist's catalogue, and show interest in who the originator of the song is, and may go out and buy the album. I would never just assume he doesn't respect his own music though, unless those words came out of his mouth himself and he told you that directly, because how else can you draw that type of conclusion unless he told you that himself or said that publically?

If that was the case and he felt that way, it doesn't seem a musician/artist would bother making new music at all, and would just focus entirely on classics, so I just can't buy that theory, that he doesn't respect his current music, especially when during the 3121 Vegas shows, his performances consisted of songs from the 3121 album, which was current material, which included 'Lolita, 3121, Black Sweat, Get on the Boat, Satisfied'. Not to mention he performed 'Te Amo Corazon' and other songs from that album, on the British Awards show as well as, a track from that album at the NAACP Award show sometime in 2005(?). He also performed 'Get on the Boat' at the Bryant Park GMA show in NYC, which was on the 3121 album during that time period. He promoted the songs on the 3121 album heavily during his 3121 Vegas shows and on tv performances.

He has played a handful of tracks from the 20Ten album during his W2A East Coast shows, and 21 Nites in LA, i.e., 'LayDown' and 'Future Soul Song'. He has also played a few tracks from the Lotus3flower album on a tv performance, and another single, that wasn't on any of his current albums, but sang it on another tv show, with Ledisi, Shelby, as part of the background singers, as well as singing 'Somewhere Here On Earth', if I am not mistaken, on Jay Leno's show, (correct if I'm wrong about that song choice on Jay's show).

So how is it you can say he doesn't respect his current material, when he has sung some of that current material within the past 8 years spanning from 2004-2012, with the inclusion of a track or two from the Musicology Album? It's not surprising that when you play to an arena, you play more of the classics, to give your audience some familiarity and audience participation, and throw in 1 or 2 new pieces of new material, but the point is keeping the audience's involvement so they can vibe with the musician/artist. I would say more of the rarities are played at the aftershows/afterjams, where he knows some, if not most of the hardcore fans will show up.

So many hits, so little time, does fit, when you're doing a 90 minute or 2 hour show, and you have fans from various eras from the late 70s - 2000s, who individually have their favorite songs, they hope to hear when they see him perform, but he or no other artist can fufill all the wishes of every fan. You can actually wonder, isn't the reason he puts on a different performance at every show, with a different set list every night, could be one of the ways he tries to include a little bit of everything for the fans? Some groups have the same setlist/program for multiple shows, while Prince does not, which is what makes his shows much more interesting.

[Edited 6/4/12 8:02am]

It just sound like an old soul review at a summer park concert sometimes as far as the aftershows go. I remember listening to the 7.7.2007 'aftershow' at 1st Avenue and it sounded like that, not prince music

Again his music is classic, he has music from 1976 that he never plays

Just play your music, there are enough people at all kinds of shows playing that music or most of the times their own.

Unless you really announce who made the song and when you're not really teaching anyone a lesson.

I can draw that conclusion by the fact that he doesn't even play 90% of his music, especially when a recently released album isn't even performed live at concerts.

He makes music cause he has too, like a painter paints even if he never showcases it

Of course he will play a song or 2, Yeah on Jay Leno that was during the release of Lotusflower, but Somewhere Here On Earth was from Planet Earth

Go thru his shows from 1979-1995 and then check out how the following concerts began to decrease in playing the current songs from the released album

Lovesexy showcased not only EVERY song from the album but also a B side and unreleased from the Black album, Welcome 2... which was started the same time as 20Ten barely showcases 2 songs and that's only a possibility of it being performed, I think he did Sticky Like Glue once.

No it doesn't fit to me, because at just about every show the same hit's are performed. And even at the Aftershows, that's where a lot of the covers show up

How many shows have you attended in the past 3 to 5 years though? Don't many popular musicians/bands who have multiple shows, have the same setlist, with less of a catalogue than Prince, every night they perform? So that means you know you'll get the same show on all nights. i like the variety and the unexpected, that comes with Prince's concerts, guess why I enjoy it so much when I attend. it's different songs/performances on each night, not the same setlist every night.

I remember back in the days of Prince and the Revolution and the Lovesexy era, it was the same performance/same set list, even though the shows were good. But I like this change he has now where you get a different show every night, and for me, that makes it more interesting, because it keeps fans coming back for multiple shows.

.

[Edited 6/4/12 20:36pm]

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It just sound like an old soul review at a summer park concert sometimes as far as the aftershows go. I remember listening to the 7.7.2007 'aftershow' at 1st Avenue and it sounded like that, not prince music

Again his music is classic, he has music from 1976 that he never plays

Just play your music, there are enough people at all kinds of shows playing that music or most of the times their own.

Unless you really announce who made the song and when you're not really teaching anyone a lesson.

I can draw that conclusion by the fact that he doesn't even play 90% of his music, especially when a recently released album isn't even performed live at concerts.

He makes music cause he has too, like a painter paints even if he never showcases it

Of course he will play a song or 2, Yeah on Jay Leno that was during the release of Lotusflower, but Somewhere Here On Earth was from Planet Earth

Go thru his shows from 1979-1995 and then check out how the following concerts began to decrease in playing the current songs from the released album

Lovesexy showcased not only EVERY song from the album but also a B side and unreleased from the Black album, Welcome 2... which was started the same time as 20Ten barely showcases 2 songs and that's only a possibility of it being performed, I think he did Sticky Like Glue once.

No it doesn't fit to me, because at just about every show the same hit's are performed. And even at the Aftershows, that's where a lot of the covers show up

How many shows have you attended in the past 3 to 5 years though? Don't many popular musicians/bands who have multiple shows, have the same setlist, with less of a catalogue than Prince, every night they perform? So that means you know you'll get the same show on all nights. i like the variety and the unexpected, that comes with Prince's concerts, guess why I enjoy it so much when I attend. it's different songs/performances on each night, not the same setlist every night.

I remember back in the days of Prince and the Revolution and the Lovesexy era, it was the same performance/same set list, even though the shows were good. But I like this change he has now where you get a different show every night, and for me, that makes it more interesting, because it keeps fans coming back for multiple shows.

.

[Edited 6/4/12 20:36pm]

I like change up of course, but it was never the same set list back then either. And as many songs as he had then, his choices were much more small than now. Plus back then you got a lot of unreleased songs played, songs that would end up on the next album or Bsides

But that was a different kind of concert because it was featuring the songs from the current album.

He doesn't really do that anymore, maybe 2-3 songs from the current album, if that and then back to the same set list..This has been going on for some time now. Hey if he's comfortable with it cool. I do appreciate his wide catalogue of music, and like I said I don't mind the background singers taking a lead song, just let it be a Prince song.

2elijah said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

And see that's YOUR problem. No one ever said anything about me being able to "call any shots" or being in charge of the ship. You're the one that said that. All I gave was my opinion, as a hardcore fan. You turned it into something else, which is what most of y'all people do when someone dares to criticize your hero. Instead of looking at what's said, you start having a problem with the fact that I even dared to say something that criticized him.

I don't recall telling you that you couldn't have an opinion, I stated because you consider yourself a hardcore fan, doesn't mean, as a hardcore fan, you get to pull strings or choose what type of singers or singing style he should present to his audience from his background singers. So I believe you made it more than it was because you let your ego get in the way.

By the way, when someone doesn't agree with your criticism of a musician, doesn't mean they are putting that musician/artist on a pedestal or elevating them to some superior status. It is clear there will be negative/positive criticism regarding any musician/artist from their fans, as that is realistic. We both just have varying opinions of him, and if you disagree with my opinions, that's fine, but there is no crime in disagreeing with your opinion. That is all.

[Edited 6/4/12 12:23pm]

But I never even stated that I had the right to run his show or "pull strings". If you think giving a negative opinion about him or his performance is attempting to take control of his show, then you're dead wrong. We all have our opinions, and mine is that this band and having these background singers absolutely suck! Where does that say, "I KNOW I should be runnin' shit, and why isn't he doing everything I say? If he doesn't, I'm going to sue his ass!"?? Because THAT would be having the sense of "I control the show".

alexnvrmnd777 said:

2elijah said:

I don't recall telling you that you couldn't have an opinion, I stated because you consider yourself a hardcore fan, doesn't mean, as a hardcore fan, you get to pull strings or choose what type of singers or singing style he should present to his audience from his background singers. So I believe you made it more than it was because you let your ego get in the way.

By the way, when someone doesn't agree with your criticism of a musician, doesn't mean they are putting that musician/artist on a pedestal or elevating them to some superior status. It is clear there will be negative/positive criticism regarding any musician/artist from their fans, as that is realistic. We both just have varying opinions of him, and if you disagree with my opinions, that's fine, but there is no crime in disagreeing with your opinion. That is all.

[Edited 6/4/12 12:23pm]

But I never even stated that I had the right to run his show or "pull strings". If you think giving a negative opinion about him or his performance is attempting to take control of his show, then you're dead wrong. We all have our opinions, and mine is that this band and having these background singers absolutely suck! Where does that say, "I KNOW I should be runnin' shit, and why isn't he doing everything I say? If he doesn't, I'm going to sue his ass!"?? Because THAT would be having the sense of "I control the show".

Wow, you're still at it?. Peace Dude. You'll be alright.

[Edited 6/5/12 12:04pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

How many shows have you attended in the past 3 to 5 years though? Don't many popular musicians/bands who have multiple shows, have the same setlist, with less of a catalogue than Prince, every night they perform? So that means you know you'll get the same show on all nights. i like the variety and the unexpected, that comes with Prince's concerts, guess why I enjoy it so much when I attend. it's different songs/performances on each night, not the same setlist every night.

I remember back in the days of Prince and the Revolution and the Lovesexy era, it was the same performance/same set list, even though the shows were good. But I like this change he has now where you get a different show every night, and for me, that makes it more interesting, because it keeps fans coming back for multiple shows.

.

[Edited 6/4/12 20:36pm]

I like change up of course, but it was never the same set list back then either. And as many songs as he had then, his choices were much more small than now. Plus back then you got a lot of unreleased songs played, songs that would end up on the next album or Bsides

But that was a different kind of concert because it was featuring the songs from the current album.

He doesn't really do that anymore, maybe 2-3 songs from the current album, if that and then back to the same set list..This has been going on for some time now. Hey if he's comfortable with it cool. I do appreciate his wide catalogue of music, and like I said I don't mind the background singers taking a lead song, just let it be a Prince song.

Ok, but what about any recent shows? Have you been to any of the W2A East Coast shows? I'm only asking because he had the current background singers at those shows, so would like your opinion of any of those shows you may have attended, because there's a difference when you attend a live concert vs seeing it on video or hearing it audio style. For me, like I said, I like the current background singers' harmony, and pretty much all 3 singers can hold their own in their solos, and they also have their own singing careers outside of when they are not touring as part of the NPG band. Which means they are not solely dependent on their current band leader to make a career for them, as it seems some former band members may have been in the past, and it's nice that Prince gives his current background singers the opportunity to showcase their talent as part of his band.

Also, even if he chooses 2 to 3 songs from a new album you don't feel that is good enough, especially if he's playing to an arena, where classics or popular/familiar songs are expected?

I also think because they were different time periods back then, it would be hard to compare to the way things are done now.

[Edited 6/6/12 9:16am]

2elijah said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

But I never even stated that I had the right to run his show or "pull strings". If you think giving a negative opinion about him or his performance is attempting to take control of his show, then you're dead wrong. We all have our opinions, and mine is that this band and having these background singers absolutely suck! Where does that say, "I KNOW I should be runnin' shit, and why isn't he doing everything I say? If he doesn't, I'm going to sue his ass!"?? Because THAT would be having the sense of "I control the show".

Wow, you're still at it?. Peace Dude. You'll be alright.

[Edited 6/5/12 12:04pm]

You had JUST responded a day earlier, so what are you talking about? If you're wrong on something, mainly when it concerns me, I'm gonna correct you on it. Plain and simple. It wouldn't matter if it was 100 days old, to be honest.

So, consider yourself corrected, and now we can move on.