OldFriends4Sale said:

I beg to differ with Jill Jones, what exactly defines a soul singer anyway? All soul singers can't "blow" nor do they need to

Hmmmm and Tina Marie must was RJ funk & soul and she had a monotone singer with no depth??? sounds suspicious

I've heard Boni Boyer and Boni is very 1 dimensional in that it's mostly wailing type singing, even when she was responding sex to Prince during Strange Relationships @ 1st Ave open rehearsal it was the same thing she always did. But Jill's moaning on Lady Cab Driver showed vocal control and range that Boni couldn't have pulled off cause she has to do it gospel

Jill Jones: Kiss (extended) Jill Jones Hello (extended) Jill Jones album

Automatic

I'll go down on U all night long, it's automatic,
JJ:U will?

yes I will babe)

In that 2 word peace she responded to Prince with sexy controlled range

Rosie Bonie & Shelby sorry it's all the same, I've heard some of Rosies music outside of Prince and her vocal theatrics are all the same.

I'm not saying Shelby or Rosie can't sing of course, but I don't think just because someone is a 'soul singer'means they have range, cause they do the same thing over and over to me.

I beg to differ that part of being a soul singer is not being able to "blow" and "croon" in some form or another because the most effective soul singers can both "blow" and "croon." And if one can't "blow," one is usually seen as limited in the soul community.

*

As for being with Tina Marie, usually there are two or three backing vocalist, and my Tina Marie memory is a bit foggy, no pun intended, but Jones' voice would blend nicely with one or two other singers whose voices are more earthy and soulful so Jones could have as easily been chosen for her contrast to what the other singer(s) did. That's how one creates contrasting harmony. However, Jones, if my memory is correct, was never asked to provide more than one type of range. Additionally, Bonnie's, Rosie's, and Shelby's vocal theatrics may remain within the same structure, but they still have more range and diversity to their voices, at least as far as I can hear.

*

Secondly, since you are equating "talking" to "singing" I don't have a response for that. I'm not being flippant, but what Jones does in "AUTOMatic" and in "Lady Cab Driver" is not something that hundreds of women couldn't do. I don't "hear it" nearly as special as you do, and while I love "Lady Cab Driver," I always thought that the moaning was a bit over the top and too much like bad porn and not very sensuous at all. But, since you are giving Jones credit for "talking" we are, then, discussing apples and oranges, and I relent because I just can't equate talking, especially what Jones does on those two songs, with the depth and soul of what Bonnie, Rosie, and Shelby brings. To be quite honest, she was quite unmemorable on "AUTOMatic" for me as nothing more than a stock prop for Prince's vocal dancing.

*

It appears to me that you just don't like the big gospel sound, and that's cool, but I don't see how it does not fit with what Prince is doing now or in the past. For me, the whole punk, pop, rock aspect is only one part of Prince whereas most fans who love the eighties want that to be all he is. I'm not saying that you are asserting this, but the gospel and soul sound have always been there, though more faintly in the early days, but there nonetheless. And, if you like it more faintly (which is what Jones’ voice provides) or not at all, I understand that, but that does not mean that Jones' voice has as much character and depth as Bonnie's, Rosie's, and Shelby's.

*

So, it seems that we are at an impasse as we differ on the definition of what constitutes a soul singer and the value of Jones’ speaking parts.

OldFriends4Sale said:

KICKDRUMZ said:

Hearing live recordings and or seeing him live, I always think that "wow" if he had a strong backing vocals it would bring a color to his music. I know u guys are gonna through Rosie or Bonnie in tha mix, or that he's to cheap to pay anyone. But im sure its a few gulable singer out there who would jump at the chance to be part of his musical world. What your feeling? on this.

I think the women he has are quality singers

I just don't think that it works with Prince's music well too me especially being to big in voice

I've always loved Jill Jones shadowing Prince's voice, or Lisa or Sheila

Let me just say I love the female backing vocals from the the 1980's

Jill Jones Vanity Brenda Sheila Lisa Taj Susannah Cat & Wendy

Boni was the start of the Big (gospel) vocal sound but on the albums and tours she was to big

I kinda agree with this...

He always goes for singers with big pipes, like gospel-style singers and it doesn't really mix right with his music to me.

His stuff sounded best when he had Lisa and Wendy and Susannah singing with him.

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I beg to differ with Jill Jones, what exactly defines a soul singer anyway? All soul singers can't "blow" nor do they need to

Hmmmm and Tina Marie must was RJ funk & soul and she had a monotone singer with no depth??? sounds suspicious

I've heard Boni Boyer and Boni is very 1 dimensional in that it's mostly wailing type singing, even when she was responding sex to Prince during Strange Relationships @ 1st Ave open rehearsal it was the same thing she always did. But Jill's moaning on Lady Cab Driver showed vocal control and range that Boni couldn't have pulled off cause she has to do it gospel

Jill Jones: Kiss (extended) Jill Jones Hello (extended) Jill Jones album

Automatic

I'll go down on U all night long, it's automatic,
JJ:U will?

yes I will babe)

In that 2 word peace she responded to Prince with sexy controlled range

Rosie Bonie & Shelby sorry it's all the same, I've heard some of Rosies music outside of Prince and her vocal theatrics are all the same.

I'm not saying Shelby or Rosie can't sing of course, but I don't think just because someone is a 'soul singer'means they have range, cause they do the same thing over and over to me.

I beg to differ that part of being a soul singer is not being able to "blow" and "croon" in some form or another because the most effective soul singers can both "blow" and "croon." And if one can't "blow," one is usually seen as limited in the soul community.

*

As for being with Tina Marie, usually there are two or three backing vocalist, and my Tina Marie memory is a bit foggy, no pun intended, but Jones' voice would blend nicely with one or two other singers whose voices are more earthy and soulful so Jones could have as easily been chosen for her contrast to what the other singer(s) did. That's how one creates contrasting harmony. However, Jones, if my memory is correct, was never asked to provide more than one type of range. Additionally, Bonnie's, Rosie's, and Shelby's vocal theatrics may remain within the same structure, but they still have more range and diversity to their voices, at least as far as I can hear.

*

Secondly, since you are equating "talking" to "singing" I don't have a response for that. I'm not being flippant, but what Jones does in "AUTOMatic" and in "Lady Cab Driver" is not something that hundreds of women couldn't do. I don't "hear it" nearly as special as you do, and while I love "Lady Cab Driver," I always thought that the moaning was a bit over the top and too much like bad porn and not very sensuous at all. But, since you are giving Jones credit for "talking" we are, then, discussing apples and oranges, and I relent because I just can't equate talking, especially what Jones does on those two songs, with the depth and soul of what Bonnie, Rosie, and Shelby brings. To be quite honest, she was quite unmemorable on "AUTOMatic" for me as nothing more than a stock prop for Prince's vocal dancing.

*

It appears to me that you just don't like the big gospel sound, and that's cool, but I don't see how it does not fit with what Prince is doing now or in the past. For me, the whole punk, pop, rock aspect is only one part of Prince whereas most fans who love the eighties want that to be all he is. I'm not saying that you are asserting this, but the gospel and soul sound have always been there, though more faintly in the early days, but there nonetheless. And, if you like it more faintly (which is what Jones’ voice provides) or not at all, I understand that, but that does not mean that Jones' voice has as much character and depth as Bonnie's, Rosie's, and Shelby's.

*

So, it seems that we are at an impasse as we differ on the definition of what constitutes a soul singer and the value of Jones’ speaking parts.

Your 1st paragraph was a bit confusing "you used my line 'beg to differ...' and never really defined what a soul singer is. This line reads contradictory: a soul singer is not being able to "blow" and "croon" in some form or another because the most effective soul singers can both "blow" and "croon."

Have you heard Jill Jones in Kiss and Hello?, there is no monotone there, she is belting it out.

And have you heard her album?

No Jill wasn't talking, she did those lines Melodically, do you know what stuff I'm talking about?

Jill Lisa & Dez all had a singing part in 1999, nothing mono about it, Jill was singing in Automatic, just because it the song title is 'computer like' doesn't mean it's no layered and building which is is a very orgasmic song

Naw anyone can't just beautifuly melodically deliver moans and cooing, like I said, (if you've heard it??): the Strange Relationships where he had a back in forth with Boni and her delivery again was just big and strong, I liked it but it didn't show she had layers and depth.

A lot of people don't like the big voice

I like gospelish belting voices, just not on Prince music, and it has never worked in Prnce albums which is why you don't hear it on the albums. He only uses it live. Can you tell me 10 songs that are real Prince songs with big diva voices on them?

I'm a House head and I love the big gospel belting voices a lot of house used from MPeople Martha Walsh, and I love how Mariah Carey remixes and belts on her house versions of songs

Rosie Gaines: Closer than Close

laurarichardson said:

duggalolly said:

I like the 80s background vocals the best, too, especially Lisa on the early albums and tours.

The woman he has singing for him now are professionals

Repeat it all you want honey, your bullshit will remain bullshit.

erik319 said:

laurarichardson said:

The woman he has singing for him now are professionals

Repeat it all you want honey, your bullshit will remain bullshit.

I still haven't heard the defination that defines them as pros versus Susannah Lisa Jill Jones Taj Sevelle

OldFriends4Sale said:

erik319 said:

Repeat it all you want honey, your bullshit will remain bullshit.

I still haven't heard the defination that defines them as pros versus Susannah Lisa Jill Jones Taj Sevelle

I'm sorry but to put Susannah and Lisa in the same sentence as 'Jill Jones and Taja Sevelle' as 'pros' regarding their singing abilities is stretching it a bit

[Edited 5/28/12 9:38am]

laurarichardson said:

The woman he has singing for him now are professionals

And the women he used previously weren't??

They were skilled musicians who also sang and did it for a living and got paid for it; sounds like professionals to me...

Neversin.

80spfantwp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I still haven't heard the defination that defines them as pros versus Susannah Lisa Jill Jones Taj Sevelle

I'm sorry but to put Susannah and Lisa in the same sentence as 'Jill Jones and Taja Sevelle' as 'pros' regarding their singing abilities is stretching it a bit

[Edited 5/28/12 9:38am]

In what direction?

80spfantwp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I still haven't heard the defination that defines them as pros versus Susannah Lisa Jill Jones Taj Sevelle

I'm sorry but to put Susannah and Lisa in the same sentence as 'Jill Jones and Taja Sevelle' as 'pros' regarding their singing abilities is stretching it a bit

[Edited 5/28/12 9:38am]

Susannah is a trained singer and very skilled vocalist, why don't you think Susannah is not a professional singer? What has Taj done that makes her a pro and not suzannah

Also I'm just asking for what defines a 'professional'

This below is what Susannah comes from and you think she isn't talented?

Have you heard her on the Family lp? backing for Prince on various songs and FDelux lp?

Have you ever heard her sing live? and she is not in the same line or higher than Taj & Jill? hmmmm

And you don't think she is a professional?

Susannah Melvoin (born January 26, 1964) is an American vocalist and songwriter, best known for her association with Prince in the mid-1980s. Coming from a musical family, Melvoin is the twin sister of musician Wendy Melvoin, sister of Jonathan Melvoin (touring keyboardist with The Smashing Pumpkins), and daughter of jazz pianist (and former NARAS president) Michael Melvoin.

Melvoin has subsequently worked as a background vocalist for such artists as Roger Waters, Eric Clapton and Mike Oldfield among others and has performed vocals on the "Wendy & Lisa" projects's albums.

As a songwriter, she has co-written songs performed by Madonna, Eric Clapton, and Doyle Bramhall II; this last, a member of Arc Angels, is also Melvoin's husband. (See below.)

She has also performed in small or cameo roles in three small-budget films, including Skin & Bone and Luster.

In 2007, The Family reunited to record a new CD, and renamed themselves fDeluxe in 2009.

Dren5 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think the women he has are quality singers

I just don't think that it works with Prince's music well too me especially being to big in voice

I've always loved Jill Jones shadowing Prince's voice, or Lisa or Sheila

Let me just say I love the female backing vocals from the the 1980's

Jill Jones Vanity Brenda Sheila Lisa Taj Susannah Cat & Wendy

Boni was the start of the Big (gospel) vocal sound but on the albums and tours she was to big

I kinda agree with this...

He always goes for singers with big pipes, like gospel-style singers and it doesn't really mix right with his music to me.

His stuff sounded best when he had Lisa and Wendy and Susannah singing with him.

They never overpowered him, they complimented him: Lisa Susannah Wendy Sheila Cat, I love how they flowed with his music

i like it better when prince does his own background vocals he far as the tour goes he has been bringing out the best now shelby,tamar,liv,ledisi,elisa,rosie,bonnie,kip so he has done his part.

i like how now prince bring out the undiscovered and work with em giving em some spotlight and then kick em out 2 make it 4 themselves

OldFriends4Sale said:

Your 1st paragraph was a bit confusing "you used my line 'beg to differ...' and never really defined what a soul singer is. This line reads contradictory: a soul singer is not being able to "blow" and "croon" in some form or another because the most effective soul singers can both "blow" and "croon."

Have you heard Jill Jones in Kiss and Hello?, there is no monotone there, she is belting it out.

And have you heard her album?

No Jill wasn't talking, she did those lines Melodically, do you know what stuff I'm talking about?

Jill Lisa & Dez all had a singing part in 1999, nothing mono about it, Jill was singing in Automatic, just because it the song title is 'computer like' doesn't mean it's no layered and building which is is a very orgasmic song

Naw anyone can't just beautifuly melodically deliver moans and cooing, like I said, (if you've heard it??): the Strange Relationships where he had a back in forth with Boni and her delivery again was just big and strong, I liked it but it didn't show she had layers and depth.

A lot of people don't like the big voice

I like gospelish belting voices, just not on Prince music, and it has never worked in Prnce albums which is why you don't hear it on the albums. He only uses it live. Can you tell me 10 songs that are real Prince songs with big diva voices on them?

I'm a House head and I love the big gospel belting voices a lot of house used from MPeople Martha Walsh, and I love how Mariah Carey remixes and belts on her house versions of songs

Rosie Gaines: Closer than Close

I am willing to agree to disagree as we are definitely hearing things differently, but the whole, "Have you heard" statement is just insulting and disrespectful. I have been listening to Prince since 1979, been a fan since 1980, and have heard more Prince music than most. Just because I hear it differently or am not as impressed by certain things as you does not mean that I have not heard it.

*

You stated that being able to "blow" is not essential for being a soul singer, and I beg to differ. The most effective and noted soul singers are those who can "blow" and "croon," which are essential components to being a soul singer. Jill Jones can't "blow," rather I have never heard her "blow," which, for me, makes her not a soul singer. Now, there are some pop singers who have soul sensibilities, but their lack of being able to "blow" keeps them as pop singers with some soul sensibility, soul singers.

*

Yes, I heard Jones' album, was not impressed. Yes, I heard the backing vocals on "Kiss" and "Hello" and what the backing vocals add are more falsetto; it is Prince's vocals that add the layering with other octaves. Thus, by definition, Jones' vocals are monotone. Monotone does not mean bad, it simply means one--as in one octave or as in one dimensional.

*

If you call the talking in "Lady Cab Driver" and "AUTOMatic" melodic and beautiful, then, yes, we are definitely miles apart from what constitutes soul singing. Now, the speaking in "AUTOMatic" is "in rhythm" or "on beat" like any average spoken word artist, but it comes nowhere close to being melodic, no more than the speaking voice has a natural rhythm or cadence and sound, but that is not enough to use as an example of her being a soul singer, at least not for my tastes. And, yes, Jones and Dickerson have singing parts on "1999," and they proved that they can carry a tune in a bucket, but that's about it. In fact, live, I never liked and often cringed at how poorly they delivered those parts live, causing Prince's live vocal delivery to sound far superior to theirs, making me wonder how much studio help they had. To be clear, I'm not saying they had technical help producing their vocals, but hearing them live makes me wonder. And we will just disagree about the quality of Jones' delivery on "Lady Cab Driver." For me, there is nothing melodic or beautiful about it, more like painful over acting, i.e., bad porn.

Okay, so you don't like the "big" gospel sound on Prince's music; I do. I love what Rosie does on the studio version of "Thunder." Prior to this, it was Prince, himself, supplying the screaming that was half James Brown and half the black church, reconfiguring it in his own manner. As he evolved, he began to include it more, and instances, such as "I Rock; therefore, I Am" or the House version of "Gett Off" show this. Whether one can name ten songs is not the issue because quality cannot be measured by quantity. The bottom line is that over the years, Prince has readily embraced the "big" gospel sound, and I love that sound much more than the airy and whimsical sound of Jill, Wendy, and Lisa. Now, because I love Bonnie's, Rosie's, and Shelby's voices more than I love the voices of Jill, Wendy, and Lisa does not mean that I love the eighties work any less. It simply means that for my tastes in soul singing, the voices of Bonnie, Rosie, and Shelpby move me much more than the voices of Jill, Wendy, and Lisa. But, what I love most is Prince's ability to mix and reconfigure the "big" gospel sound with his funk and rock sound because rather than being drawn by one sound, I was drawn to the notion of Prince's ability to produce several sounds well.

*

Finally, I hate House music. It is repetitive and boring to me even though many have used the "big" gospel sound well. Yet, the "big" gospel sound is unable to cover the boring repetition for me. House music is Disco in regression, and it is the one sound that Prince has embraced that I hate. Some fans hate the Game Boyz, some hate Shelby J, and I hate the use of House music, which completely destroys the opening to the Nude Tour. Yet, when the House music ends, the Nude Tour becomes much better.

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Your 1st paragraph was a bit confusing "you used my line 'beg to differ...' and never really defined what a soul singer is. This line reads contradictory: a soul singer is not being able to "blow" and "croon" in some form or another because the most effective soul singers can both "blow" and "croon."

Have you heard Jill Jones in Kiss and Hello?, there is no monotone there, she is belting it out.

And have you heard her album?

No Jill wasn't talking, she did those lines Melodically, do you know what stuff I'm talking about?

Jill Lisa & Dez all had a singing part in 1999, nothing mono about it, Jill was singing in Automatic, just because it the song title is 'computer like' doesn't mean it's no layered and building which is is a very orgasmic song

Naw anyone can't just beautifuly melodically deliver moans and cooing, like I said, (if you've heard it??): the Strange Relationships where he had a back in forth with Boni and her delivery again was just big and strong, I liked it but it didn't show she had layers and depth.

A lot of people don't like the big voice

I like gospelish belting voices, just not on Prince music, and it has never worked in Prnce albums which is why you don't hear it on the albums. He only uses it live. Can you tell me 10 songs that are real Prince songs with big diva voices on them?

I'm a House head and I love the big gospel belting voices a lot of house used from MPeople Martha Walsh, and I love how Mariah Carey remixes and belts on her house versions of songs

Rosie Gaines: Closer than Close

I am willing to agree to disagree as we are definitely hearing things differently, but the whole, "Have you heard" statement is just insulting and disrespectful. I have been listening to Prince since 1979, been a fan since 1980, and have heard more Prince music than most. Just because I hear it differently or am not as impressed by certain things as you does not mean that I have not heard it.

*

You stated that being able to "blow" is not essential for being a soul singer, and I beg to differ. The most effective and noted soul singers are those who can "blow" and "croon," which are essential components to being a soul singer. Jill Jones can't "blow," rather I have never heard her "blow," which, for me, makes her not a soul singer. Now, there are some pop singers who have soul sensibilities, but their lack of being able to "blow" keeps them as pop singers with some soul sensibility, soul singers.

*

Yes, I heard Jones' album, was not impressed. Yes, I heard the backing vocals on "Kiss" and "Hello" and what the backing vocals add are more falsetto; it is Prince's vocals that add the layering with other octaves. Thus, by definition, Jones' vocals are monotone. Monotone does not mean bad, it simply means one--as in one octave or as in one dimensional.

*

If you call the talking in "Lady Cab Driver" and "AUTOMatic" melodic and beautiful, then, yes, we are definitely miles apart from what constitutes soul singing. Now, the speaking in "AUTOMatic" is "in rhythm" or "on beat" like any average spoken word artist, but it comes nowhere close to being melodic, no more than the speaking voice has a natural rhythm or cadence and sound, but that is not enough to use as an example of her being a soul singer, at least not for my tastes. And, yes, Jones and Dickerson have singing parts on "1999," and they proved that they can carry a tune in a bucket, but that's about it. In fact, live, I never liked and often cringed at how poorly they delivered those parts live, causing Prince's live vocal delivery to sound far superior to theirs, making me wonder how much studio help they had. To be clear, I'm not saying they had technical help producing their vocals, but hearing them live makes me wonder. And we will just disagree about the quality of Jones' delivery on "Lady Cab Driver." For me, there is nothing melodic or beautiful about it, more like painful over acting, i.e., bad porn.

Okay, so you don't like the "big" gospel sound on Prince's music; I do. I love what Rosie does on the studio version of "Thunder." Prior to this, it was Prince, himself, supplying the screaming that was half James Brown and half the black church, reconfiguring it in his own manner. As he evolved, he began to include it more, and instances, such as "I Rock; therefore, I Am" or the House version of "Gett Off" show this. Whether one can name ten songs is not the issue because quality cannot be measured by quantity. The bottom line is that over the years, Prince has readily embraced the "big" gospel sound, and I love that sound much more than the airy and whimsical sound of Jill, Wendy, and Lisa. Now, because I love Bonnie's, Rosie's, and Shelby's voices more than I love the voices of Jill, Wendy, and Lisa does not mean that I love the eighties work any less. It simply means that for my tastes in soul singing, the voices of Bonnie, Rosie, and Shelpby move me much more than the voices of Jill, Wendy, and Lisa. But, what I love most is Prince's ability to mix and reconfigure the "big" gospel sound with his funk and rock sound because rather than being drawn by one sound, I was drawn to the notion of Prince's ability to produce several sounds well.

*

Finally, I hate House music. It is repetitive and boring to me even though many have used the "big" gospel sound well. Yet, the "big" gospel sound is unable to cover the boring repetition for me. House music is Disco in regression, and it is the one sound that Prince has embraced that I hate. Some fans hate the Game Boyz, some hate Shelby J, and I hate the use of House music, which completely destroys the opening to the Nude Tour. Yet, when the House music ends, the Nude Tour becomes much better.

Oh don't be so sensitive, it was a statement more than a question.

You are offended now, no need to communicate with the rest of your post

But the last part means you haven't heard house music

Agree to disagree

Graycap23 said:

Qtips..........lots of them.

x2

EvilAngel said:

RodeoSchro said:

You don't know how true you are.

I once had dinner with one of Bobby Byrd's sons (can't remember which), who knew Rosie Gaines.

He said Prince let Rosie go because Rosie was a better singer than he was, and it was too noticeable onstage.

Always thought she left because she didn't get along with Tony, Kirky and Damon.

That is the reason she left because she has said so in numerous interviews. I would take what she had to say to the public over second had gossip.

EvilAngel said:

RodeoSchro said:

You don't know how true you are.

I once had dinner with one of Bobby Byrd's sons (can't remember which), who knew Rosie Gaines.

He said Prince let Rosie go because Rosie was a better singer than he was, and it was too noticeable onstage.

Always thought she left because she didn't get along with Tony, Kirky and Damon.

That is the reason she left because she has said so in numerous interviews. I would take what she had to say to the public over second had gossip.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Oh don't be so sensitive, it was a statement more than a question.

You are offended now, no need to communicate with the rest of your post

But the last part means you haven't heard house music

Agree to disagree

Whether offended or not, I am objective enough to engage in analytical discourse without becoming overly subjective or demeaning to others so you can't just dismiss my position by stating that I'm offended, inferring that I am irrational. If you check my history of posts, and I'm sure you have better things to do than that, I don't have a record of being so subjective that it causes me to make irrational and negative comments.

Finally, I have heard house music, dislike it, and I do agree to disagree.

lol yall high as fuck if you think Wendy/Lisa/Fink/Mark can sing sing live....yall ever hear Baby Im A Star etc live etc from back then?

The recent and not so recent singers aren't as endearing to us as they arent part of the romaticized past hit parade era but they CAN sing

rdhull said:

lol yall high as fuck if you think Wendy/Lisa/Fink/Mark can sing sing live....yall ever hear Baby Im A Star etc live etc from back then?

The recent and not so recent singers aren't as endearing to us as they arent part of the romaticized past hit parade era but they CAN sing

I'm readying thru and trying to figure out where Fink & Mark came in on this... maybe u r hi

Prince doesn't wanna be upstaged.

i'm not sure what you on about, he has, vocally strong background singers, maybe elisa is not considered that, but Liv and Shelby...come on, they are strong.

Quite frankly, I think the 3 ladies that are currently his background singers, are the best background singers, Prince has had in his band. Bonnie and Rosie pretty much sang on the same wave length as one another, but these 3 have demonstrated they can hold their own when they're given the 'solo' spotlight, whether it's at an aftershow/afterjam or in an arena. All 3, have individual vocal styles, and beautiful voices, and when they harmonize together they bring out the beauty in a song. Plus they all have their own solo careers, even with being part of the NPG, and when they're not on tour with him. So I hope he keeps them as part of his band for a long time. All 3, Shelby, Liv and Elisa, have real talent--sweet harmony, fantastic singing voices--and certainly are not 'manufactured' talent being passed off as real talent.

[Edited 5/31/12 11:57am]

1725Stopp said:

and I beg to differ. The most effective and noted soul singers are those who can "blow" and "croon," which are essential components to being a soul singer. Jill Jones can't "blow," rather I have never heard her "blow," which, for me, makes her not a soul singer. Now, there are some pop singers who have soul sensibilities, but their lack of being able to "blow" keeps them as pop singers with some soul sensibility, soul singers.

I agree with you 100% 1725Stopp. I can name a few, Aretha, Patti, Leela James, Ledisi, Tina Marie, Angie Stone, Christine Aguilera, Mary J. Blige, Jonny Lang, Kelly Clarkson, and I'm going to add Shelby J and Liv Warfield, just to name a few, as there are many more, among just some of the singers that have that gift to carry a song and knock it ouf of the water and bring chills to your spine. and can be classified as 'soul' singers. Jill Jones, Susannah, Wendy are more or less pop singers, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I can't see them having the same vocal abilities on the soulful level of the above-mentioned. I also would classify the late Whitney Houston and Donna Summer also, as more or less pop singers with soul sensibilities, even though when Whitney sang some of her songs, she could really blow it ouf of the water. It takes some real skill, real talent to be able to have that gift.

When Shelby J, Liv and Elisa sang 'Arms of an Angel', that I saw posted in a video that Andy Allo had on her FB page sometime ago, is was amazing the way the 3 of them sang that song, and that song has been a favorite of mine, ever since I first heard it in a movie that actor Nicolas Cage starred in.

[Edited 5/31/12 12:00pm]

2elijah said:

When Shelby J, Liv and Elisa sang 'Arms of an Angel', that I saw posted in a video that Andy Allo had on her FB page sometime ago, is was amazing the way the 3 of them sang that song

I just relistened to that song with earphones... man. The OWN that song live.. Flawless, seriously flawless, harmonization from all of them. And the way each of them go off at the end... and then Shelby's final high note. OMG. Shit, even if they did an album together just reworking classics I'd buy that. Because I know there'd be some serious sanging on that joint. Whoever started this thread needs to be shot. They dont know music.

lezama said:

2elijah said:

When Shelby J, Liv and Elisa sang 'Arms of an Angel', that I saw posted in a video that Andy Allo had on her FB page sometime ago, is was amazing the way the 3 of them sang that song

I just relistened to that song with earphones... man. The OWN that song live.. Flawless, seriously flawless, harmonization from all of them. And the way each of them go off at the end... and then Shelby's final high note. OMG. Shit, even if they did an album together just reworking classics I'd buy that. Because I know there'd be some serious sanging on that joint. Whoever started this thread needs to be shot. They dont know music.

Isn't it awesome? Enough to bring tears to your eyes, because they made you feel that song. Sometimes I can't tell the difference between Shelby and Liv when they're singing a song together, because those two have some strong voices, not saying Elisa doesn't but you can't miss the way Liv and Shel bring out the soul of a song. I said it before, if the 3 of them formed a singing group together, and toured in between when Prince and the NPG aren't scheduled for tours/shows, I believe they would do just fine.

They harmonize so well together. Kind of reminds me of Barry White's 'Love Unlimited' Female Trio group, even though they had a different sound. Shel/Liv/Elisa, their voices are the real deal. Their version of 'Mountains' is awesome too, when Prince and the NPG streamed part of their show online, I believe in 2010 from Paris (?), and the 3 ladies sang that song. Also, I remember sort of hearing them sing together for the first time, when a club in NYC, 'The Village Underground', streamed the show online about 3 years ago, and Prince, Shel, Liv, Elisa, showed up, at that club. The 3 ladies sang a few songs, before Prince got on stage with them for a min. Liv's voice just blew me away. Anyway, if the 3 of them got together and made an album, I'm definitely buying it. I already made up my own name for them, . I call them 'Sweet Harmony', because they harmonize so well together.

Anyway, I'm so tired of the manufactured crap the music industry promotes these days, that they try to pass off as real music, that it killed radio for me. Now all I seem to hear on the radio is Electronica crap that sounds like noise, and it gives me a headache, so I either turn it off or change the station. Now I mostly listen to Pandora music station online, because they play the soul/pop/r&b/funk, etc., classics from the 70s - late 90. So when I hear talented singers like Prince's current background singers, I appreciate them.

[Edited 5/31/12 21:13pm]

2elijah said:

I agree with you 100% 1725Stopp. I can name a few, Aretha, Patti, Leela James, Ledisi, Tina Marie, Angie Stone, Christine Aguilera, Mary J. Blige, Jonny Lang, Kelly Clarkson, and I'm going to add Shelby J and Liv Warfield, just to name a few, as there are many more, among just some of the singers that have that gift to carry a song and knock it ouf of the water and bring chills to your spine. and can be classified as 'soul' singers. Jill Jones, Susannah, Wendy are more or less pop singers, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I can't see them having the same vocal abilities on the soulful level of the above-mentioned. I also would classify the late Whitney Houston and Donna Summer also, as more or less pop singers with soul sensibilities, even though when Whitney sang some of her songs, she could really blow it ouf of the water. It takes some real skill, real talent to be able to have that gift.

When Shelby J, Liv and Elisa sang 'Arms of an Angel', that I saw posted in a video that Andy Allo had on her FB page sometime ago, is was amazing the way the 3 of them sang that song, and that song has been a favorite of mine, ever since I first heard it in a movie that actor Nicolas Cage starred in.

[Edited 5/31/12 12:00pm]

Nice list because of its diversity. Thanks for providing examples to my theory. Also, I'm not the biggest Houston and Summer fans, but how much of your categorizing them as pop singers has to do with their vocal range, depth, and power, and how much of it has to do with the songs they were given? Think about how early in Franklin's career the record company wanted her to be a more sophisticated jazz artist than a gospel influenced soul singer. I don't disagree with your assessment of Houston and Summer, but I wonder how much of them being labeled more as pop singers is about their voices or about the songs they were given as both were really influenced/controlled by the record company. Of course, we are what we produce so, in the end, they accepted those songs, but I wonder if you think they were limited by the material or if they just didn't have the voices to be firmly identified as soul singers.

1725topp said:

2elijah said:

I agree with you 100% 1725Stopp. I can name a few, Aretha, Patti, Leela James, Ledisi, Tina Marie, Angie Stone, Christine Aguilera, Mary J. Blige, Jonny Lang, Kelly Clarkson, and I'm going to add Shelby J and Liv Warfield, just to name a few, as there are many more, among just some of the singers that have that gift to carry a song and knock it ouf of the water and bring chills to your spine. and can be classified as 'soul' singers. Jill Jones, Susannah, Wendy are more or less pop singers, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I can't see them having the same vocal abilities on the soulful level of the above-mentioned. I also would classify the late Whitney Houston and Donna Summer also, as more or less pop singers with soul sensibilities, even though when Whitney sang some of her songs, she could really blow it ouf of the water. It takes some real skill, real talent to be able to have that gift.

When Shelby J, Liv and Elisa sang 'Arms of an Angel', that I saw posted in a video that Andy Allo had on her FB page sometime ago, is was amazing the way the 3 of them sang that song, and that song has been a favorite of mine, ever since I first heard it in a movie that actor Nicolas Cage starred in.

[Edited 5/31/12 12:00pm]

Nice list because of its diversity. Thanks for providing examples to my theory. Also, I'm not the biggest Houston and Summer fans, but how much of your categorizing them as pop singers has to do with their vocal range, depth, and power, and how much of it has to do with the songs they were given? Think about how early in Franklin's career the record company wanted her to be a more sophisticated jazz artist than a gospel influenced soul singer. I don't disagree with your assessment of Houston and Summer, but I wonder how much of them being labeled more as pop singers is about their voices or about the songs they were given as both were really influenced/controlled by the record company. Of course, we are what we produce so, in the end, they accepted those songs, but I wonder if you think they were limited by the material or if they just didn't have the voices to be firmly identified as soul singers.

Thanks for responding. I think it was the material given to them that kept them on the 'pop mainstream' level. Both Houston and Summer had the capabilities to be soul singers if they had chosen to fully go that route. I'm not sure if I could have seen Donna going as hard as Whitney, as a soul singer. Whitney was brought up in the church, and sang in church, and already had the skills to sing in a soulful style, but she also, had a softness to her voice, as well, that could carry various vocal styles, and sing various, types of songs. Now I don't think I could have ever seen Whitney like an 'Aretha-type of soul singer, but I also don't see her straining her voice had she chosen to sing more 'soul' or 'gospel' type songs. To me, Donna pretty much always seemed to have the 'same' sound when she sang, which was easy to recognize. I forgot to add Mariah Carey to the list, as she could definitely carry a note, and has a high vocal range. I would say she can sing with some 'soul' when she wants to as well, but more or less is a 'pop mainstream' singer.

I kind of miss the 'natural' styles that some singers just don't have today. There's just too much 'noise' in their music, and you can't 'hear' them, so-to-speak. Now Amy Whinehouse had some soul, no question about it and knew how to rock it, despite the personal hardships she experienced during her lifetime. Her voice was so natural, and complimented the music within the songs she sung.

Now getting back to Liv/Shel/Elisa, you can clearly hear their talent when they sing. Liv and Shelby's voice is so natural, strong, and pulls you in. They put the 'soul' in the songs they sing, much like how many singers back in the day, used to sing. Elisa's voice is a bit softer, but she compliments both Liv's and Shel's voice when all 3 harmonize together, and those are the types of voices, as singers, I appreciate, because neither of them sounds manufactured, like how some record execs try to pass off as talent today.

[Edited 6/2/12 8:30am]

Off Topic:

I just like to say "Joss Stone"....just because I love her....continue

2elijah said:

Thanks for responding. I think it was the material given to them that kept them on the 'pop mainstream' level. Both Houston and Summer had the capabilities to be soul singers if they had chosen to fully go that route. I'm not sure if I could have seen Donna going as hard as Whitney, as a soul singer. Whitney was brought up in the church, and sang in church, and already had the skills to sing in a soulful style, but she also, had a softness to her voice, as well, that could carry various vocal styles, and sing various, types of songs. Now I don't think I could have ever seen Whitney like an 'Aretha-type of soul singer, but I also don't see her straining her voice had she chosen to sing more 'soul' or 'gospel' type songs. To me, Donna pretty much always seemed to have the 'same' sound when she sang, which was easy to recognize. I forgot to add Mariah Carey to the list, as she could definitely carry a note, and has a high vocal range. I would say she can sing with some 'soul' when she wants to as well, but more or less is a 'pop mainstream' singer.

I kind of miss the 'natural' styles that some singers just don't have today. There's just too much 'noise' in their music, and you can't 'hear' them, so-to-speak. Now Amy Whinehouse had some soul, no question about it and knew how to rock it, despite the personal hardships she experienced during her lifetime. Her voice was so natural, and complimented the music within the songs she sung.

Now getting back to Liv/Shel/Elisa, you can clearly hear their talent when they sing. Liv and Shelby's voice is so natural, strong, and pulls you in. They put the 'soul' in the songs they sing, much like how many singers back in the day, used to sing. Elisa's voice is a bit softer, but she compliments bgth Liv's and Shel's voice when all 3 harmonize together, and those are the types of voices, as singers, I appreciate, because neither of them sounds manufactured, like how some record execs try to pass off as talent today.

You are on point with what you say, and I think hip hop also has had a negative effect on soul singing in general. On another listserv, I angered a lot of people when I stated that hip hop has been good for hip hop but bad for the musicality (instrumentation and singing) of black music. As hip hop has become the focal point (major seller) of black music, it has limited instrumentation and well-rounded singing so that the best R&B, Soul, and Funk musicians and singers are almost exclusively in the church or on the gospel circuit because that is one of the few places that most black musicians and true singers have an opportunity to explore and reach their technical potential and earn a living. And as it relates to Prince, so many fans want to put Prince in this nice little box of being just a rocker or just a pop star that they resent when he does what he has always done--break the boundaries of the boxes and mix as much as he can, which includes soul and gospel. Thus, most, not all, of the fans annoyed by Shelby's, Liv's, and Elisa's voice are really annoyed that Prince is actively embracing a soul and gospel sound as much as he embraces all other sounds.

pueroda said:

Off Topic:

I just like to say "Joss Stone"....just because I love her....continue

Joss Stone has a wonderful voice. My wife loves her more than I do, but she has such a powerful earthy sound with nice depth and range.