For all you who don't know what polyrhythm is:

Polyrhythm is the simultaneous use of two or more conflicting rhythms, that are not readily perceived as deriving from one another, or as simple manifestations of the same meter.

Let's start!

I don't know,,,

Would "Train" and "Starfish & Coffee" be accurate?

Planet Earth?

The beginning of "Temptation" The guitar is in a completely different time and rhythm to the percussiont that kicks in. I think it's the only example I can think of outside of parts of Crystal Ball where the orchestral strings are doing a different rhythm than the beat.

We can often find that in songs where he uses both the Linn Drum and plays "real" drums over it, however those two beats usually share speed and metre, they're just different beats, as in:

Let's Go Crazy

Technically, even Tambourine would be poly-rhythmic (the clap on the 2 and 4 is one rhythm, the live playing the other); it's just a very simple example.

Damn. That's a tough one...When I think of polyrhythm (in funk/soul) the 1st that comes to my mind is Sly's "In Time".

Maybe "Crystal Ball".."S.O.T.T".."Lady Cab Driver"?

none of them i guess...

Otherwise I would not have been that surprised when I heard for the first time the song "Polyrhythm" from the japanese band Perfume.

I think the best exemple of polyrhythm : www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9x1keJW4A

I think "Housequake" would fall in2 this category.

Also (maybe) "There'll Never Be Another Like Me."

uh.. the Digital Garden has a polythythmic, afrobeat kinda thing going on doesn't it? At least for the first half...

Dance on?

I think people are clutching at straws here. Digital Garden certainly isn't polyrhythmic, or Housequake. Where are the "conflicting rhythms" in those tracks?

I can't think of a single example of Prince using polyrhythm in its true sense. For a real polyrhythm example, check out "Unreal Square" on Squarepusher's amazing new long-player "Ufabulum" (if you can find anywhere to listen to it online, it only came out the other day). Everything is in standard meter and rhythmic syncopation until we get to around 2m50s in - then you'll hear the bizarreness of 2 conflicting rhythms playing together. Prince has never done anything like that!

I wait to be proved wrong though - perhaps the OP has an answer?

Mindflux said:

I wait to be proved wrong though - perhaps the OP has an answer?

I don't recall any of his songs using polyrhythm. This thread hasn't been much help either.

Mindflux said:

I think people are clutching at straws here. Digital Garden certainly isn't polyrhythmic, or Housequake. Where are the "conflicting rhythms" in those tracks?

I dunno, Digital Garden always reminded me of The Great Curve by Talking Heads rhythmically, which I was lead to understand utilised polyrhythms for its groove.

If i'm wrong it's prince's fault not mine!

Mindflux said:

I think people are clutching at straws here. Digital Garden certainly isn't polyrhythmic, or Housequake. Where are the "conflicting rhythms" in those tracks?

I can't think of a single example of Prince using polyrhythm in its true sense. For a real polyrhythm example, check out "Unreal Square" on Squarepusher's amazing new long-player "Ufabulum" (if you can find anywhere to listen to it online, it only came out the other day). Everything is in standard meter and rhythmic syncopation until we get to around 2m50s in - then you'll hear the bizarreness of 2 conflicting rhythms playing together. Prince has never done anything like that!

I wait to be proved wrong though - perhaps the OP has an answer?

The reason HQ came to mind for me is that there are actually 2 different beats that are overlapped. The drum line you hear when the track starts, then there is a counter-beat that was added on top. You really hear it more in the 7 mo quake mix when the 2 beats overlap (in differnt sections). Is that not one? (Just wondering).

daPrettyman said:

Mindflux said:

I think people are clutching at straws here. Digital Garden certainly isn't polyrhythmic, or Housequake. Where are the "conflicting rhythms" in those tracks?

I can't think of a single example of Prince using polyrhythm in its true sense. For a real polyrhythm example, check out "Unreal Square" on Squarepusher's amazing new long-player "Ufabulum" (if you can find anywhere to listen to it online, it only came out the other day). Everything is in standard meter and rhythmic syncopation until we get to around 2m50s in - then you'll hear the bizarreness of 2 conflicting rhythms playing together. Prince has never done anything like that!

I wait to be proved wrong though - perhaps the OP has an answer?

The reason HQ came to mind for me is that there are actually 2 different beats that are overlapped. The drum line you hear when the track starts, then there is a counter-beat that was added on top. You really hear it more in the 7 mo quake mix when the 2 beats overlap (in differnt sections). Is that not one? (Just wondering).

Nope. Two beats, but they follow the same meter and are the same tempo.

Gohi said:

daPrettyman said:

The reason HQ came to mind for me is that there are actually 2 different beats that are overlapped. The drum line you hear when the track starts, then there is a counter-beat that was added on top. You really hear it more in the 7 mo quake mix when the 2 beats overlap (in differnt sections). Is that not one? (Just wondering).

Nope. Two beats, but they follow the same meter and are the same tempo.

Oh...ok. I got it. Thanx 4 the explanation.

Is "Batdance" an example of this? You know, the part at 2:43 that begins with "Stop the press!"

To me, that little section always sounded like a sideways beat.

The obscure snare drum entry towards the end of Mountains suggests rhythmic conflict.

Nice thread but can you attach an audio file for an example. Means more to me than the words I know what polysemy is but need to hear a rhythm for the above.

As far as live Prince goes, I think he used to play a lot with rhythm just with the crowd and his guitar by stopping and starting in between songs to generate the unexpected. Thinking here of the Lovesexy 'lets go crazy' performance. But I know that's not what you mean.

flinty said:

The obscure snare drum entry towards the end of Mountains suggests rhythmic conflict.

yep.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Mindflux said:

I wait to be proved wrong though - perhaps the OP has an answer?

I don't recall any of his songs using polyrhythm. This thread hasn't been much help either.

According to this video the two examples I mentioned and then the instance at the end of Mountains fits the definition.

Mindflux said:

I think people are clutching at straws here. Digital Garden certainly isn't polyrhythmic, or Housequake. Where are the "conflicting rhythms" in those tracks?

I can't think of a single example of Prince using polyrhythm in its true sense. For a real polyrhythm example, check out "Unreal Square" on Squarepusher's amazing new long-player "Ufabulum" (if you can find anywhere to listen to it online, it only came out the other day). Everything is in standard meter and rhythmic syncopation until we get to around 2m50s in - then you'll hear the bizarreness of 2 conflicting rhythms playing together. Prince has never done anything like that!

I wait to be proved wrong though - perhaps the OP has an answer?

Ok, I get it. It's when you play with the rhythm and when e.g. a bass/drum doubles up to knock you off your feet or more explicity, put you into overdrive if you're dancing. I don't know where they are in the songs though. I'll let you guys educate me.

Bohemian67 said:

Ok, I get it. It's when you play with the rhythm and when e.g. a bass/drum doubles up to knock you off your feet or more explicity, put you into overdrive if you're dancing. I don't know where they are in the songs though. I'll let you guys educate me.

I think it's more like the beat gets complicated like someone hit the switch to another song and you can't dance to it, unless you split into two.

To some people's ears it could sound like a mistake or awkwardness.

maybe like seconds 8 to 18 in the song "Temptation"

Listen to that.

Bohemian67 said:

Nice thread but can you attach an audio file for an example. Means more to me than the words I know what polysemy is but need to hear a rhythm for the above.

As far as live Prince goes, I think he used to play a lot with rhythm just with the crowd and his guitar by stopping and starting in between songs to generate the unexpected. Thinking here of the Lovesexy 'lets go crazy' performance. But I know that's not what you mean.

ufoclub said:

Bohemian67 said:

Ok, I get it. It's when you play with the rhythm and when e.g. a bass/drum doubles up to knock you off your feet or more explicity, put you into overdrive if you're dancing. I don't know where they are in the songs though. I'll let you guys educate me.

I think it's more like the beat gets complicated like someone hit the switch to another song and you can't dance to it, unless you split into two.

To some people's ears it could sound like a mistake or awkwardness.

maybe like seconds 8 to 18 in the song "Temptation"

Listen to that.

Thanks. Haven't listened to that in years, I used to like it a lot so I've put in on my ipod.

I like it when beats get complicated because of the unpredictablity and especially because if dancing, you have to invent extra moves if you're feeling the music. It kicks your ass, knocks you off your feet so to speak. Cool to listen to Temptation again

my understanding of polyrhythms is limited, but at the end of The Everlasting Now he goes into odd meters without ever losing the basic thumping beat, and I suppose this might qualify?

NDRU said:

my understanding of polyrhythms is limited, but at the end of The Everlasting Now he goes into odd meters without ever losing the basic thumping beat, and I suppose this might qualify?

I'll have to relisten.

NDRU said:

my understanding of polyrhythms is limited, but at the end of The Everlasting Now he goes into odd meters without ever losing the basic thumping beat, and I suppose this might qualify?

Oohh....that is a good one to point out. The drums have a certain beat, the bass line is playing a different rhythm.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Bohemian67 said:

Nice thread but can you attach an audio file for an example. Means more to me than the words I know what polysemy is but need to hear a rhythm for the above.

As far as live Prince goes, I think he used to play a lot with rhythm just with the crowd and his guitar by stopping and starting in between songs to generate the unexpected. Thinking here of the Lovesexy 'lets go crazy' performance. But I know that's not what you mean.

[Edited 5/25/12 8:16am]

So is this an example? Because I've always thought there were two different things going on in this--one with her hands and one with her feet.