I'm actually a pretty big fan of most of P's new stuff, including 20Ten, but like many I really really love the old school stuff too, paritcularly the unique stripped out sound.

Loads of people on the org say that Prince can't really write a decent tune anymore and is tired. I don't believe that for a second.

Here is my take. Right now I have 'Sticky Like Glue' playing from the gig in Copenhagen. Can't remember if that was 2010 or 11? Either way, this sounds properly good and funky, even stripped down. That then makes me ask the question, 'Is production the reason many fans are often disappointed and frustrtated'?

From my personal point of view, I like the new stuff, but sometimes feel frustrated that it could be fantastically good if it had the stripped down underproduced sound that would give it that unique sound that we heard before?

I'm certainly not moaning, more just thinking out loud, that the songs haven't really changed that much, it's just the technique used in the studio which is softening things out a little more than many would choose.

Any thoughts?

jasontate said:

I'm actually a pretty big fan of most of P's new stuff, including 20Ten, but like many I really really love the old school stuff too, paritcularly the unique stripped out sound.

Loads of people on the org say that Prince can't really write a decent tune anymore and is tired. I don't believe that for a second.

Here is my take. Right now I have 'Sticky Like Glue' playing from the gig in Copenhagen. Can't remember if that was 2010 or 11? Either way, this sounds properly good and funky, even stripped down. That then makes me ask the question, 'Is production the reason many fans are often disappointed and frustrtated'?

From my personal point of view, I like the new stuff, but sometimes feel frustrated that it could be fantastically good if it had the stripped down underproduced sound that would give it that unique sound that we heard before?

I'm certainly not moaning, more just thinking out loud, that the songs haven't really changed that much, it's just the technique used in the studio which is softening things out a little more than many would choose.

Any thoughts?

I totally agree with you. Sticky Like Glue, as much as I like it as-is, could've been a major jam if it was produced similarly to how a track on the black album was - raw. Extend the "jam" part of the song in the last minute for about 2 or 3 minutes, like "we can funk" - and it's an amazing track.

Similarly, imagine "Mr. Happy" produced well...... hell, the entire emancipation album could've had some real masterpieces.

yeah .. no .. the production on rainbow chillin was great .. the lyrics ruined the whole record

same with sticky like glue .. sounds fine enough .. its the horrid rap that ruins it

lyrics count and prince used to write good ones

"no one plays the clarinet the way u play my heart"

thats a good lyric ..

"dig if u will ..."

good lyric

"purple bananas" bad lyric that prince got away with due to having good lyrics around it

mr goodnight .. VERY VERY BAD LYRICS

production of black sweat was bad tho .. i'll give u that

musicology sounded like a cheap drum machine .. i'll give u that

but lyrics are what makes or breaks universal appeal and critical appeal .. his music has been strong for the most part which is impressive .. but the lyrics have tanked record after record after record ..

he could lay of the on board computer sounds tho .. give it a more genuine feel

It's both. You cite one song as proof - but that's one that's almost universally regarded as good. What about all the other shit no amount of production would polish?

Jatrig said:

jasontate said:

I'm actually a pretty big fan of most of P's new stuff, including 20Ten, but like many I really really love the old school stuff too, paritcularly the unique stripped out sound.

Loads of people on the org say that Prince can't really write a decent tune anymore and is tired. I don't believe that for a second.

Here is my take. Right now I have 'Sticky Like Glue' playing from the gig in Copenhagen. Can't remember if that was 2010 or 11? Either way, this sounds properly good and funky, even stripped down. That then makes me ask the question, 'Is production the reason many fans are often disappointed and frustrtated'?

From my personal point of view, I like the new stuff, but sometimes feel frustrated that it could be fantastically good if it had the stripped down underproduced sound that would give it that unique sound that we heard before?

I'm certainly not moaning, more just thinking out loud, that the songs haven't really changed that much, it's just the technique used in the studio which is softening things out a little more than many would choose.

Any thoughts?

I totally agree with you. Sticky Like Glue, as much as I like it as-is, could've been a major jam if it was produced similarly to how a track on the black album was - raw. Extend the "jam" part of the song in the last minute for about 2 or 3 minutes, like "we can funk" - and it's an amazing track.

Similarly, imagine "Mr. Happy" produced well...... hell, the entire emancipation album could've had some real masterpieces.

Yeah, it's weird that I didn't really get Sticky Like Glue until I heard it live and then I though it sounded crackin. I really love Future Soul Song, but that sounded much more real and dare I say more like Prince when he played it live.

Maybe TrevorAyer is right that if he ditched the schmalzy digital stuff, then it could be even better.

NouveauDance said:

It's both. You cite one song as proof - but that's one that's almost universally regarded as good. What about all the other shit no amount of production would polish?

Ha ha, yeah I hear what your saying. I suppose what I mean is that it didn't really sound that Prince like until he took it out of the studio. I can't say I liked it that much until then.

I think the fact that everything is polished so much, that often a decent number is pretty much lost in the blurring of the edges. He nearly fucked up Future Soul Song, but it was strong enough to hold out.

I do agree that there are some duffers though. I think Laydown is bile as a quick example.

[Edited 3/19/12 10:25am]

TrevorAyer said:

yeah .. no .. the production on rainbow chillin was great .. the lyrics ruined the whole record

same with sticky like glue .. sounds fine enough .. its the horrid rap that ruins it

lyrics count and prince used to write good ones

"no one plays the clarinet the way u play my heart"

thats a good lyric ..

"dig if u will ..."

good lyric

"purple bananas" bad lyric that prince got away with due to having good lyrics around it

mr goodnight .. VERY VERY BAD LYRICS

production of black sweat was bad tho .. i'll give u that

musicology sounded like a cheap drum machine .. i'll give u that

but lyrics are what makes or breaks universal appeal and critical appeal .. his music has been strong for the most part which is impressive .. but the lyrics have tanked record after record after record ..

he could lay of the on board computer sounds tho .. give it a more genuine feel

I agree that sometimes the lyrics are what really matters, but Prince has always had some of the best and worst lyrics, even with his most admired work.

It's really the sound I'm getting at. Plus, I think you're absolutely right about the Rainbow Children, but for me the music and production is so good on that record, I can almost not hear the lyrics and they don't bother me that much.

Like I said, I really like most of the new stuff, I just think it would be bloody spectcular if he just played it and recorded the bugger.

I have said for a while that I still think the song writing is top notch, but it is Prince's dated sound, particularly his use of synths that lets him down.

His production is stuck in the 80's heyday, or even 70's retro. It worked in 84, because it was the sound of 84. But in the modern day, he sounds like a retro artist.

Examples.

Fury - Great song, dated pop rock production.

Beginning Endlessly - Killer song, including lyrics, but tries too hard to be "old Prince".

I think the Rainbow Children was Princes best production in 20 year, but was let ruined by the lyrical content.

I would love Prince to use guest producers. It could set him free.

SquirrelMeat said:

I have said for a while that I still think the song writing is top notch, but it is Prince's dated sound, particularly his use of synths that lets him down.

His production is stuck in the 80's heyday, or even 70's retro. It worked in 84, because it was the sound of 84. But in the modern day, he sounds like a retro artist.

Examples.

Fury - Great song, dated pop rock production.

Beginning Endlessly - Killer song, including lyrics, but tries too hard to be "old Prince".

I think the Rainbow Children was Princes best production in 20 year, but was let ruined by the lyrical content.

I would love Prince to use guest producers. It could set him free.

I think Beginning Endlessly is one of the exceptions for me. I just love it and it's one of those tracks that actually captures the feeling some of his older stuff has. I think the problem is that, if he is trying to make it sound like the 80's, it's not working. I'm not sure he really is.

I don't believe he's forgotten how to produce a record like 1999, he just chooses to have this new sound without the edge and you can only hear how it would have sounded when he plays it live?

jasontate said:

I'm actually a pretty big fan of most of P's new stuff, including 20Ten. Loads of people on the org say that Prince can't really write a decent tune anymore and is tired. I don't believe that for a second.

TOTALLY AGREE!!! I Like The sound Of his New Music, It's still funky! And I do believe that the problem It's the Main Production

This is an interesting thread jasontate. I have thought about this from time to time when certain people bash and bash AND bash the new stuff while proclaiming the death of Prince's artistic ability. I think that many of his new songs are just as good as anything he has ever done. However, I do agree that the production kills some of the songs for me. I wish he would ditch some of the digital toys and go into the studio with the basics. One of the best live Prince shows for me in years was the L.A. gig at the Conga Room. It was perfect, but it was so organice and real. I enjoyed it without all the schmaltz. It was guitar, bass, drums and singing. The power trio really worked.

Some of the songs have been overproduced to the point that they don't seem real. Some of the stuff on 3121 and Planet Earth would have benefitted from more sparse production. P once said that Miles taught him about space. I wish he would use it more. Lotusflow3r had some great production in spots but others suffered from too much. I still love that album as a whole.

Now the lyrics, that is another thing. Some of the have been good, some great and some awful. Prince has always been that one. One thing I have noticed in recent years that I can't stand, though, is the materialistic brand name dropping crap. I HATE that from Prince. I also hate the lyrics of Valentina, which had the groove to be a good song with more effort put to the lyrics. Future Soul Song, Walk in Sand and Sea of Everything are the same. They have parts where the lyrics are fantastic then other lyrics that sound like they were just an afterthought.