I think with all of Prince's gifts, his drumming sometimes gets overlooked. Some people look for alot of flash from a drummer (over the top fills and such), but I think that ability to lock in a solid groove is key. When Prince hit the scene, he acomplished this perfectly with his first 4 albums. Just listen to how tight the grooves are on songs like "I wanna be your lover, Soft and Wet, Im yours, Lets work etc". Of course the 1999 album saw the rise of the linn drum machine. Although live drumming took a back seat, I think his skills as a programmer were very inventive. Some of my favorite linn drum patterns were "something in the water, 777-9311, nasty girl, when doves cry,if I was your girlfriend, and alphabet street. I think around batman he started using drum sounds and loops other producers were using. I must admit I was'nt as big a fan of those drum sounds. My favorite moments from most of his 90's to current albums had live drums . Whether it was Prince or other drum killers (Michael B/Blackwell) it just made me enjoy the songs more. So I think at this stage I hope he stays with live drumming. Any thoughts?

WinterIsComing said:

I think with all of Prince's gifts, his drumming sometimes gets overlooked. Some people look for alot of flash from a drummer (over the top fills and such), but I think that ability to lock in a solid groove is key. When Prince hit the scene, he acomplished this perfectly with his first 4 albums. Just listen to how tight the grooves are on songs like "I wanna be your lover, Soft and Wet, Im yours, Lets work etc". Of course the 1999 album saw the rise of the linn drum machine. Although live drumming took a back seat, I think his skills as a programmer were very inventive. Some of my favorite linn drum patterns were "something in the water, 777-9311, nasty girl, when doves cry,if I was your girlfriend, and alphabet street. I think around batman he started using drum sounds and loops other producers were using. I must admit I was'nt as big a fan of those drum sounds. My favorite moments from most of his 90's to current albums had live drums . Whether it was Prince or other drum killers (Michael B/Blackwell) it just made me enjoy the songs more. So I think at this stage I hope he stays with live drumming. Any thoughts?

In the 80's I loved both of the drums (linn and live), especially Lady Cab Driver for live drumming, and the linn for those you mentioned and Lets Go Crazy. Amidst all the linn, when you heard a live pattern it really stood out. However in the post 90's era I really enjoy the live drums only. The sound is more organic (duh) and inspired imho. The drumming really made The Rainbow Children pop. When he goes retro and uses the linn post 95, it just sounds ..I dont know...out of place?

rdhull said:

WinterIsComing said:

I think with all of Prince's gifts, his drumming sometimes gets overlooked. Some people look for alot of flash from a drummer (over the top fills and such), but I think that ability to lock in a solid groove is key. When Prince hit the scene, he acomplished this perfectly with his first 4 albums. Just listen to how tight the grooves are on songs like "I wanna be your lover, Soft and Wet, Im yours, Lets work etc". Of course the 1999 album saw the rise of the linn drum machine. Although live drumming took a back seat, I think his skills as a programmer were very inventive. Some of my favorite linn drum patterns were "something in the water, 777-9311, nasty girl, when doves cry,if I was your girlfriend, and alphabet street. I think around batman he started using drum sounds and loops other producers were using. I must admit I was'nt as big a fan of those drum sounds. My favorite moments from most of his 90's to current albums had live drums . Whether it was Prince or other drum killers (Michael B/Blackwell) it just made me enjoy the songs more. So I think at this stage I hope he stays with live drumming. Any thoughts?

In the 80's I loved both of the drums (linn and live), especially Lady Cab Driver for live drumming, and the linn for those you mentioned and Lets Go Crazy. Amidst all the linn, when you heard a live pattern it really stood out. However in the post 90's era I really enjoy the live drums only. The sound is more organic (duh) and inspired imho. The drumming really made The Rainbow Children pop. When he goes retro and uses the linn post 95, it just sounds ..I dont know...out of place?

It sounds like all the people who use the Linn to sound like him.

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

In the 80's I loved both of the drums (linn and live), especially Lady Cab Driver for live drumming, and the linn for those you mentioned and Lets Go Crazy. Amidst all the linn, when you heard a live pattern it really stood out. However in the post 90's era I really enjoy the live drums only. The sound is more organic (duh) and inspired imho. The drumming really made The Rainbow Children pop. When he goes retro and uses the linn post 95, it just sounds ..I dont know...out of place?

It sounds like all the people who use the Linn to sound like him.

And think of the song Compassion from 2010. If that had live drums it would be jammin. Its an ok song now and what not but live would probably really sound so much better.

The weirds thing is now I want that live sound whereas I was initally enamored with that linn sound..to death. I guess those things belong back then.

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

In the 80's I loved both of the drums (linn and live), especially Lady Cab Driver for live drumming, and the linn for those you mentioned and Lets Go Crazy. Amidst all the linn, when you heard a live pattern it really stood out. However in the post 90's era I really enjoy the live drums only. The sound is more organic (duh) and inspired imho. The drumming really made The Rainbow Children pop. When he goes retro and uses the linn post 95, it just sounds ..I dont know...out of place?

It sounds like all the people who use the Linn to sound like him.

exaclty genesia and rd. I think it sounds forced (almost as forced as when he used the loops and then current drum machines on d& p/symbol/and emancipation etc).

yeah, agree that even prince can't make the linn drum sound natural in 'modern' songs. I have a really hard time understanding why that is, though. Is it just something about how production was in 80s that made the linn blend in more?

Maybe he used to write the drum patterns on the linn drum, and now he writes them on something else and says, 'ehhhhhh let's have the linn drum play this pattern, for old times sake...' That's almost what it sounds like, but I'd like to think Prince is good enough to know that that's a bad way of writing...

You hear different things from different instruments. Probably the kind of patterns that you'd gravitate to while playing around with a linn drum are gonna be different than the patterns you'd gravitate to while playing with something else, and writing a beat on one instrument and having another play it would take away from the immediacy/directness/naturalness of the song.

Who knows though, that's just a guess at why even Prince can't make the linn drum fit in post 95...

fusk said:

yeah, agree that even prince can't make the linn drum sound natural in 'modern' songs. I have a really hard time understanding why that is, though. Is it just something about how production was in 80s that made the linn blend in more?

Maybe he used to write the drum patterns on the linn drum, and now he writes them on something else and says, 'ehhhhhh let's have the linn drum play this pattern, for old times sake...' That's almost what it sounds like, but I'd like to think Prince is good enough to know that that's a bad way of writing...

You hear different things from different instruments. Probably the kind of patterns that you'd gravitate to while playing around with a linn drum are gonna be different than the patterns you'd gravitate to while playing with something else, and writing a beat on one instrument and having another play it would take away from the immediacy/directness/naturalness of the song.

Who knows though, that's just a guess at why even Prince can't make the linn drum fit in post 95...

I don't know if it's that...or that music just sounded a lot colder and more "metallic" in the early/mid 80s. I mean...maybe the Linn works best with music that is very stripped down and synth focused - which frankly, would sound really dated if anyone did it now.

Well, the last time he used the Linn drum with all the orignal patches (eproms) would be "What Do U Want Me 2 Do", if I'm not mistaken.

On MPLS-Sound he used a plugin and was using other kicks and on 20Ten he uses the Linndrum snare instead of the LM-1 snare. And that, besides the way of programming, is what makes it sound very different from his retro sound. On the cover of MPLS-sound it's even the Linndrum instead of the LM-1.

[Edited 2/8/12 10:17am]

Genesia said:

It sounds like all the people who use the Linn to sound like him.

I think he should do BOTH like he used to do back in 82, where he overdubs the linn on the live drums or vice versa.

It gave his playing more heart and it didn't sound like anybody else, hell, it still doesn't sound like anybody else because 90% of the folks who use the linn drums, don't overdub the live drums on them.

David1974 said:

Well, the last time he used the Linn drum with all the orignal patches (eproms) would be "What Do U Want Me 2 Do", if I'm not mistaken.

On MPLS-Sound he used a plugin and was using other kicks and on 20Ten he uses the Linndrum snare instead of the LM-1 snare. And that, besides the way of programming, is what makes it sound very different from his retro sound. On the cover of MPLS-sound it's even the Linndrum instead of the LM-1.

[Edited 2/8/12 10:17am

Well put Dave. Prince is using loops and eproms from the LM-1 and the samples just don't mesh as well as if one had the real thing and programmed it. When Prince had the real thing, the programming was seemless. I too like the sounds of the drum machine and the live drums, but if he wants to capture his own true Prince sound, he better dig up the LM-1 to make it sound tight.

Harlepolis said:

I think he should do BOTH like he used to do back in 82, where he overdubs the linn on the live drums or vice versa.

It gave his playing more heart and it didn't sound like anybody else, hell, it still doesn't sound like anybody else because 90% of the folks who use the linn drums, don't overdub the live drums on them.

Good point. He has'nt done the blend much at all as of late. Look at lady cab driver. He's got that linn hi hot and clap rockin, but pretty much kills it with that live snare overdub (insane:) Or better yet Irresistable bitch. Thats one of his beefiest live drum perfomances of that time (both in sonics and performance). But what puts it over the top is that trademark deep linn clp underneath:)

Housequake has to be one of the classics that was all Linn Drum LM-1. One of the original Linn drums was set up at paisley park during the celebration and it was plugged in. Some fan stepped and could play the opening drums housequake with two fingers. You would have thought he was playing the record. LM-1 Sounds cool Live too.

joyinrepetition said:

David1974 said:

Well, the last time he used the Linn drum with all the orignal patches (eproms) would be "What Do U Want Me 2 Do", if I'm not mistaken.

On MPLS-Sound he used a plugin and was using other kicks and on 20Ten he uses the Linndrum snare instead of the LM-1 snare. And that, besides the way of programming, is what makes it sound very different from his retro sound. On the cover of MPLS-sound it's even the Linndrum instead of the LM-1.

[Edited 2/8/12 10:17am

Well put Dave. Prince is using loops and eproms from the LM-1 and the samples just don't mesh as well as if one had the real thing and programmed it. When Prince had the real thing, the programming was seemless. I too like the sounds of the drum machine and the live drums, but if he wants to capture his own true Prince sound, he better dig up the LM-1 to make it sound tight.

Nahhhh...that'd be too much like work. I mean...how could he do that? What with all the time he spends on his lyrics these days.

Oh, wait.

Genesia said:

joyinrepetition said:

Well put Dave. Prince is using loops and eproms from the LM-1 and the samples just don't mesh as well as if one had the real thing and programmed it. When Prince had the real thing, the programming was seemless. I too like the sounds of the drum machine and the live drums, but if he wants to capture his own true Prince sound, he better dig up the LM-1 to make it sound tight.

Nahhhh...that'd be too much like work. I mean...how could he do that? What with all the time he spends on his lyrics these days.

Oh, wait.

Efan said:

Genesia said:

Nahhhh...that'd be too much like work. I mean...how could he do that? What with all the time he spends on his lyrics these days.

Oh, wait.

He used to be so brilliant.

I thought Housequake was the Fairlight, not the Linn. Could be wrong though?

truly depends on the song. i beleive thie first time he used the linn for a album song

was private joy..... and then the way he used the linn on the rave album and also

mplsound felt just as good.

i think prince is underated as a live drummer. he is crisp and does not do too much

if he cant. i would say a mix of both on one track would e my ideal.

.

[Edited 2/8/12 14:33pm]

i'm with rdhull, that linn sound is done to death. in the 80s it worked perfectly when he had that new wave approach but nowadays sounds out of place. i'd love him to develop his jazzy side more, late 80s i always envisaged prince going down that road as he matured, especially after hearing stuff like new morning club 87. (didn't see glam-hop coming!!! lol)

prince can still write great tunes but his approach to recording them frustrates me, all of the recent stuff he's done that i really like has a live, orchestrated feel. for me a perfect example is "when eye lay my hands on u". the studio version sounds medicre when comparing it to the lush, dramatic arrangement of montreux etc.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

i'm with rdhull, that linn sound is done to death. in the 80s it worked perfectly when he had that new wave approach but nowadays sounds out of place. i'd love him to develop his jazzy side more, late 80s i always envisaged prince going down that road as he matured, especially after hearing stuff like new morning club 87. (didn't see glam-hop coming!!! lol)

prince can still write great tunes but his approach to recording them frustrates me, all of the recent stuff he's done that i really like has a live, orchestrated feel. for me a perfect example is "when eye lay my hands on u". the studio version sounds medicre when comparing it to the lush, dramatic arrangement of montreux etc.

right on robert. I think that's why I started this blog in the first place. He came on the scene with all live drums. The linn had its run (and a good one at that). But I think he's a much better live musician than programmer these days. I'm not saying that as a dig, but actually a compliment. Look at the success Adele is having right now. The majority of that album is all live production. If Prince focused on 10 well written songs lyrically, then played to his live strengths in the studio, that could be a magical next release.

WinterIsComing said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

i'm with rdhull, that linn sound is done to death. in the 80s it worked perfectly when he had that new wave approach but nowadays sounds out of place. i'd love him to develop his jazzy side more, late 80s i always envisaged prince going down that road as he matured, especially after hearing stuff like new morning club 87. (didn't see glam-hop coming!!! lol)

prince can still write great tunes but his approach to recording them frustrates me, all of the recent stuff he's done that i really like has a live, orchestrated feel. for me a perfect example is "when eye lay my hands on u". the studio version sounds medicre when comparing it to the lush, dramatic arrangement of montreux etc.

right on robert. I think that's why I started this blog in the first place. He came on the scene with all live drums. The linn had its run (and a good one at that). But I think he's a much better live musician than programmer these days. I'm not saying that as a dig, but actually a compliment. Look at the success Adele is having right now. The majority of that album is all live production. If Prince focused on 10 well written songs lyrically, then played to his live strengths in the studio, that could be a magical next release.

Id love Emancipation set with live drums. As it is now, its meh to me. The material form that set kicks live though (certain songs he has played).

rdhull said:

Id love Emancipation set with live drums. As it is now, its meh to me. The material form that set kicks live though (certain songs he has played).

yeah people wanna edit Emancipation down to one disc. Imo it would have been more killer if he used npg gold era.. Nothing wrong with any of the songs but I believe it would have been one of his best works with a band, even with 36 songs.

rdhull said:

WinterIsComing said:

right on robert. I think that's why I started this blog in the first place. He came on the scene with all live drums. The linn had its run (and a good one at that). But I think he's a much better live musician than programmer these days. I'm not saying that as a dig, but actually a compliment. Look at the success Adele is having right now. The majority of that album is all live production. If Prince focused on 10 well written songs lyrically, then played to his live strengths in the studio, that could be a magical next release.

Id love Emancipation set with live drums. As it is now, its meh to me. The material form that set kicks live though (certain songs he has played).

I agree. He was on the right trk with some of the live stuff from d&p/symbol/ and the gold experience. But emancipation suffered(imho) because of the synth based production and the mix. The live drums would have definitely brought more feeling to the songs.

thebanishedone said:

Well u think linn don't work these days is because when he programs it these days he restrics himself to make a beat that more hip hop less funky,so his patterns sound predictable.i choose linn instead of real drums Prince was the Hendrix of linn

Exactly! I would still love to hear the Linn, but his approach to it has just been lazy. He hasn't done any imaginative programming on it since the 80s, on top of what others have said about using plugins in ProTools instead of the real thing.

If he could get experimental with that shit and stop trying to sound like people that are trying to sound like him, that shit'd be funky again. Add some Oberheim synths and some thick ass bass, and we're halfway there to a winner. The next half (at least, if not way more) HAS to be a well written song.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

The next half (at least, if not way more) HAS to be a well written song.

THis is something I think we all can agree on:)

The basis of many of Princes greatest tracks in the 80's have been based on some amazing grooves that were propelled with equally amazing beats. After the mid 90's he seemed to have lost interest in that, and his music seemed to rely less and less on grooves and beats and more on traditional pop and rock oriented arrangements.

To me last interesting groove and beat based tracks that I can remember are 7 and Pheromone and maybe Gett Off. His recent attempts to replicate this formula with MplSound have sounded really forced and extremely atrocious.

V10LETBLUES said:

The basis of many of Princes greatest tracks in the 80's have been based on some amazing grooves that were propelled with equally amazing beats. After the mid 90's he seemed to have lost interest in that, and his music seemed to rely less and less on grooves and beats and more on traditional pop and rock oriented arrangements.

To me last interesting groove and beat based tracks that I can remember are 7 and Pheromone and maybe Gett Off. His recent attempts to replicate this formula with MplSound have sounded really forced and extremely atrocious.

THanks for reminding me. Get off & 7 were some of the non linn drum instances where I didnt mind the programming and sounds. But I think (I could be wrong) that he had help with the programming for those tunes.