unique said:

langebleu said:

Prince was performing this George Jackson song in the '80s. It has been a million-seller for ZZ Hill in 1982 (and was subsequently covered by Malaco stablemate, Denise LaSalle the following year). Etta James only recorded the song in 1992.

The song on the Lovesexy Live video is "Blues In C (If I Had A Harem)" and is not the same song:

http://www.princevault.co...ad_A_Harem)

oh yeah, it's the trojan horse bootleg that has downhome blues on it. in lovesexy he plays the same tune but sings his own song "if i had a harem" to the music. the studio version of harem sounds nothing like it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Time_%28Etta_James_album%29

Prince is using the same blues arrangement, including the opening horn lines from 'Things Ain't What They Used To Be' (written by Mercer Ellington), on both recordings.

FunkySideEffects said:

1725topp said:

As someone born and raised in the Mississippi Delta, I’d have to say that I’m scratching my head at some of the songs that have been suggested as blues or blues influenced. If your friend is a blues purist, do not, I repeat, do not play “Papa” as an example of Prince playing the blues. Also, “How Come U Don’t Call Me” is gospel, not blues as well as “Wade in the Water.” (And yes, I know that on the bootleg one can hear what sounds like some drunk dude in the background say, “Yeah, you better play the blues in hear,” during the performance, but “Wade in the Water” is a Negro spiritual, which is a more ancient form of gospel, that is related to the blues but not blues.) And “Motherless Child” is a Negro spiritual also. “Five Women” would be considered country blues at best, Las Vegas lounge blues at worst. And if you play “Old Friends for Sale,” “When I Lay My Hands on You,” or “Empty Room” to a blues purist as an example of Prince playing the blues, not only will that person no longer respect your musical knowledge; that person may start throwing objects at you. And while I never like to insult anybody, I cannot believe that someone actually suggested “Sign ‘O’ the Times” and “I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man” as blues or blues-like? I am at a loss for words to explain why they are not blues.

*

Of course, the problem with Prince is that he can play the blues, but, again, Prince does not desire to be tied to a particular genre and doesn’t seem to be interested in anyone whose ears are not open nor sophisticated enough to ear and enjoy all the various types and layers of genres amalgamated in his style. For instance, “Temptation” is a rock song that diverges into blues and jazz during the end. Prince seems to prefer listeners who can recognize those individual aspects and appreciate the whole more than the parts. With that said, I would suggest simply playing almost any version of “The Ride,” but the versions from The Sacrifice of Victor or Live at the Aladdin are the most representative of traditional blues. And play “Blues in C (If I Had a Harem).” And if your friend can’t hear that Prince can play the blues well, then he doesn’t want to hear that Prince plays the blues well. Additionally, the only problem with playing “Kansas City” and “Down Home Blues” from the same boot as “Wade in the Water” is that to the ears of a purist they may sound more like a lounge act imitating the blues than someone actually being the blues.

*

Finally, The Undertaker is a rock performance, not a blues performance. If your friend is not a Mississippi Delta Blues purist, it might pass. But the only thing blues about The Undertaker is that rock-n-roll is an offspring or derivative of blues. The problem is that a lot of rockers that are blues inspired become labeled as blues in mainstream media, which causes something like The Undertaker and much of the material from The Vault (Old Friends for Sale) to be mislabeled as blues.

I feel ya & thanks! I think u & this friend of mine would get along like a house on fire - for his taste in blues is on a whole nother level. Im not skilled in the genre of blues as I find that u have to be in a sort of mood to get into the groove of it, so I really envy those that can listen to it all the time. So here's a question: whenever u think of blues artists, does Prince ever come to mind for u? For me - commercially no. But Live - I think he's great at it. Do u think Nothing compares 2 u live is a good blues track?

Your final sentence suggests that you didn't understand a single fucking word. Lol

Personally do I think of Prince and blues? Nope. Not once. Not ever. The only reason one may think it is because every single bloody guitarist in the whole fucking world can play a blues lick. It's the first thing we ever learn when we sit it on our lap.

In fact when Prince does attempt a blues track it is obvious he has no feel for it. Not true blues anyway. Listen to three or four notes from BB and you'll start to understand what it means. How one man can make a single note so expressive beats me everytime.

1725topp said:

As someone born and raised in the Mississippi Delta, I’d have to say that I’m scratching my head at some of the songs that have been suggested as blues or blues influenced. If your friend is a blues purist, do not, I repeat, do not play “Papa” as an example of Prince playing the blues. Also, “How Come U Don’t Call Me” is gospel, not blues as well as “Wade in the Water.” (And yes, I know that on the bootleg one can hear what sounds like some drunk dude in the background say, “Yeah, you better play the blues in hear,” during the performance, but “Wade in the Water” is a Negro spiritual, which is a more ancient form of gospel, that is related to the blues but not blues.) And “Motherless Child” is a Negro spiritual also. “Five Women” would be considered country blues at best, Las Vegas lounge blues at worst. And if you play “Old Friends for Sale,” “When I Lay My Hands on You,” or “Empty Room” to a blues purist as an example of Prince playing the blues, not only will that person no longer respect your musical knowledge; that person may start throwing objects at you. And while I never like to insult anybody, I cannot believe that someone actually suggested “Sign ‘O’ the Times” and “I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man” as blues or blues-like? I am at a loss for words to explain why they are not blues.

*

Of course, the problem with Prince is that he can play the blues, but, again, Prince does not desire to be tied to a particular genre and doesn’t seem to be interested in anyone whose ears are not open nor sophisticated enough to ear and enjoy all the various types and layers of genres amalgamated in his style. For instance, “Temptation” is a rock song that diverges into blues and jazz during the end. Prince seems to prefer listeners who can recognize those individual aspects and appreciate the whole more than the parts. With that said, I would suggest simply playing almost any version of “The Ride,” but the versions from The Sacrifice of Victor or Live at the Aladdin are the most representative of traditional blues. And play “Blues in C (If I Had a Harem).” And if your friend can’t hear that Prince can play the blues well, then he doesn’t want to hear that Prince plays the blues well. Additionally, the only problem with playing “Kansas City” and “Down Home Blues” from the same boot as “Wade in the Water” is that to the ears of a purist they may sound more like a lounge act imitating the blues than someone actually being the blues.

*

Finally, The Undertaker is a rock performance, not a blues performance. If your friend is not a Mississippi Delta Blues purist, it might pass. But the only thing blues about The Undertaker is that rock-n-roll is an offspring or derivative of blues. The problem is that a lot of rockers that are blues inspired become labeled as blues in mainstream media, which causes something like The Undertaker and much of the material from The Vault (Old Friends for Sale) to be mislabeled as blues.

aretha franklin is mentioned as an artist his friend is into, which suggests to me that his friend isn't as pedantic as you. the intention is to show that prince has been INFLUENCED by the blues, that he's an amazing guitar player, to try to dispel the widely held myth that prince is just a prancing vacuous pervy pop artist.

langebleu said:

unique said:

oh yeah, it's the trojan horse bootleg that has downhome blues on it. in lovesexy he plays the same tune but sings his own song "if i had a harem" to the music. the studio version of harem sounds nothing like it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_Time_%28Etta_James_album%29

Prince is using the same blues arrangement, including the opening horn lines from 'Things Ain't What They Used To Be' (written by Mercer Ellington), on both recordings.

when i first heard it i thought of it was "kansas city here i come". it's amazing you can still find out little details like this after so much time and spending every single day in about 15 years looking at prince sites

and to think i'm pulling stuff out from memory for performances that were nearly quarter of a centuary ago, and i can't remember half the stuff i did yesterday. then you think next year is the 30th anniversary of purple rain being recorded

alternatively op if music has to pass some elitist checklist before your friend entertains the idea of it entering his lugholes don't play him prince...he won't get it!

[Edited 1/28/12 2:50am]

FunckySideEffects said: whenever u think of blues artists, does Prince ever come to mind for u? Do u think Nothing compares 2 u live is a good blues track?

*

When I am thinking of blues artist, Prince does not come to mind even though he is my favorite musical artist. So, if I want to hear the blues, I’ll scroll through my iPod collection, since after several years I’ve been able to convert my modest blues collection to digital, and find something if I didn’t have something specific in mind. However, there is rarely a time when I listen to Prince that I’m not reminded that blues is one of the flavors of his soul. And this can happen whether it’s a lick or riff that he plays on guitar or a moan or a wail with his voice. So, I would never consider Prince a blues artist, but it is obvious he can play the blues, has a firm understanding of the blues, and a firm appreciation of the blues.

*

“Nothing Compares 2 U” is a great soul track that shows the roots of soul in gospel, but it would not be considered a blues tune. It’s a bit too melodic in its use of harmony to be a blues tune.

*

iloveannie said: In fact when Prince does attempt a blues track it is obvious he has no feel for it. Not true blues anyway. Listen to three or four notes from BB and you'll start to understand what it means. How one man can make a single note so expressive beats me everytime.

*

I’m not sure if you are responding to me or FunckySideEffects, but as someone he was breastfed the blues it is clear to me that Prince has a feel for the blues. To minimize Prince’s skill by comparing him to BB King is like saying someone can’t play basketball because they are not as skilled as Michael Jordan. There are a lot of quality guitar players one could sit next to King and make them appear pitiful. And not to be redundant, but along with the aforementioned “The Ride” and “Blues in C (If I Had a Harem)” you can hear Prince’s blues sensibility, which would probably be more like Bobby “Blue” Bland or Buddy Guy than King, in something like “Electric Man” or the riffs that he plays at the end of “Head” during the Parade Shows or the structure of “Temptation,” especially the end. I can’t force you to hear it, but Prince knows, understand, and can play the blues well, but, again, he is not interested in being a purist anything. (And I hate to edit anything, but I just remembered that BB King stated that he wants to play with Prince. If King can hear it, then I think it's there. Of course, I've been saddened that Prince never responded to King's invitation.)

*

Robertgeorgeakabob said: aretha franklin is mentioned as an artist his friend is into, which suggests to me that his friend isn't as pedantic as you. the intention is to show that prince has been INFLUENCED by the blues, that he's an amazing guitar player, to try to dispel the widely held myth that prince is just a prancing vacuous pervy pop artist.

*

Yes, but there is a difference between showing that Prince has been influenced by the blues and suggesting certain Prince songs as blues songs that have nothing to do with the blues. And since I thought that the point was to suggest songs that were representative of the blues, I was just so surprised that most of the songs that were suggested were not representative of the blues with some not being remotely representative of the blues. And, yes, most of the songs mentioned do dispel the widely held myth that Prince is just a prancing vacuous pop artist, but that does not make them blues tunes.

*

Depending on how much Aretha Franklin you’ve heard and how much you know about her, you may or may not know that Franklin is a gospel version of Big Mama Thornton, Bessie Smith, or Coco Taylor or a soul/pop version of Mahalia Jackson. That’s not to say that Franklin isn’t one of the most powerful and beautiful voices that the Earth has known. My point is that if you’ve heard her live, especially in the sixties and seventies, as well as listened to her early Atlantic records, after Columbia tried to make her Billie Holiday but more “middle of the road,” you understand that the friend is feeling Franklin’s soul and blues sensibility that is heard/felt through her vocal delivery. Or to put it this way, find one blues purist who will say that he does not hear Franklin’s blues sensibility in her vocal delivery. Yet, eighty percent of the songs that were suggested in this thread do not rise to that (Franklin’s) level of blues sensibility enough to be solid examples of Prince playing the blues.

*

langebleu said: Prince is using the same blues arrangement, including the opening horn lines from 'Things Ain't What They Used To Be' (written by Mercer Ellington), on both recordings.

*

I’m glad that Langeblue provided this information because I didn’t want my comment to be taken that Prince’s “Kansas City” or “Down Home Blues” aren’t well done or aren’t gloriously raunchy like I like my blues, but for some reason the musicianship on the boot sounds a bit sloppy, off beat, or not on point to me. Then, again, maybe that’s how an aftershow is supposed to sound though in all my years I’ve never heard King, Bland, or Guy sloppy, off beat, or not on point.

*

Yet, even more than this, the use of these songs and the arrangement shows that Prince has a firm understanding and love for the blues. Even if this idea to use these songs and arrangement were given to him from someone else in the band, his use of them shows his understanding and love for the blues even if he does not desire to be a blues purist.

[Edited 1/28/12 8:21am]

I''l go stand in the corner.

I still think he plays blues like every other pub guitarist I've heard. Yes he is very good but we all learn those licks. The blues is easy to learn but to really play it I guess you need to live it. It has to be in your blood. You need to be dedicated to just that and nothing else.

Prince, eh? Master of all trades, purist of none. Which is precisely why I love his music so much. He has, and does, his own thing (to an extent). His playing grows on me and I'm just so grateful he's not over the top with his guitar (bar the odd exception). His subtle and limited use (not all the time) leaves me begging for more but grateful that that's all I've got. I like the odd bit he throws in. It makes it more entertaining for the ears. And his funky rhythm playing is like strawberries and cream.

I saw Bonamasa last year. Over-rated. Lots of playing but no music.

don't try to convince your friend that prince can handle the blues because ur friend will laugh at you .. the closest prince comes is maybe something like 5 women .. which is kind of a lite pop bar blues style like maybe bonnie riat in her pop glory might sing .. but as for anything that even feels remotely like the real blues .. prince blows chunks .. u are better off turning ur friend on to prince as a pop funk new wave master because prince cant handle any other genres at any respectable capacity .. sorry but telemarketer blues is just campy bar blues drivel .. its cute funny but lacks any of the neccessary 'blues' element that would make it authentic in the mind of a purist .. same with the ride and zanallee .. both have a blues genre feel but both are more pop rock cutesy than anything .. they certainly don't feel like the blues nor is the subject matter even blue

i love prince and he has some good stuff but he is not a blues musician by a long shot ..

in fact i would say some thing like "something in the water does not compute" has more of a blues feel than anything prince has intentional done to sound bluesy like say "the truth" or "the ride". even darling nikki sounds more like the blues than some thing like "peach" which is more pop rock than blues

just stick to prince good music and avoid his attempts to prove himself a "master" cough cough .. at other genres .. its like trying to show a notorious BIG fan that prince can rap .. ur gonna get laughed at

[Edited 1/28/12 9:36am]

TrevorAyer said:

don't try to convince your friend that prince can handle the blues because ur friend will laugh at you .. the closest prince comes is maybe something like 5 women .. which is kind of a lite pop bar blues style like maybe bonnie riat in her pop glory might sing .. but as for anything that even feels remotely like the real blues .. prince blows chunks .. u are better off turning ur friend on to prince as a pop funk new wave master because prince cant handle any other genres at any respectable capacity .. sorry but telemarketer blues is just campy bar blues drivel .. its cute funny but lacks any of the neccessary 'blues' element that would make it authentic in the mind of a purist .. same with the ride and zanallee .. both have a blues genre feel but both are more pop rock cutesy than anything .. they certainly don't feel like the blues nor is the subject matter even blue

i love prince and he has some good stuff but he is not a blues musician by a long shot ..

in fact i would say some thing like "something in the water does not compute" has more of a blues feel than anything prince has intentional done to sound bluesy like say "the truth" or "the ride". even darling nikki sounds more like the blues than some thing like "peach" which is more pop rock than blues

just stick to prince good music and avoid his attempts to prove himself a "master" cough cough .. at other genres .. its like trying to show a notorious BIG fan that prince can rap .. ur gonna get laughed at

[Edited 1/28/12 9:36am]

My only response is that living in Mississippi, I know several blues musicians who would disagree with you when you say that "for anything that even feels remotely like the real blues .. prince blows chunks." I have had this conversation with several blues musicians over the age of forty, and they all stated that Prince has the chops to play the blues and that they use their ears, what that have heard him play in many other songs, to affirm that. Now, their opinion doesn't discount your opinion, and none of them said that Prince is a blues musician. And, I am certainly not saying that Prince is a blues musician. But I do know purist blues musicians who have spent their lives as traveling blues musicians who say that Prince plays the blues very well. And, of course, what proves that this is all subjective on some level is that while I like "Five Women," I cringe every time someone mentions it even remotely as even a faint example of blues, but "The Ride" and "Blues in C" both sound and feel to me more like traditional blues with "Zannalee" being on the fence or on the bubble. Of course, Prince is not fully committed to the blues or many other genres as evident in how he abandons or ends the “Zannalee” groove on the Today Show. And this attitude or approach can cause his attempt to the blues to feel, appear, or seem campy or just half-done, but for the short periods Prince is focused on expressing the blues, he is spot on, dead to right blues.

FunkySideEffects said:

Hi, I was talking to a friend today who's favourite genre of music is Blues now he's into blues in a heavy kind of way: Aretha Franklin, BB King, Buddy Guy etc you name it.

I asked him what Prince music he's heard and he thinks I'm crazy for even thinking that Prince has any blues and I said that Prince is crazy-good on the guitar and has alot of soul & his lyrics are out of this world. (I also mentioned that he writes all his own songs as this friend of mine is only into real musicians). he doesn't believe me...

as people have been nit picking about what is blues or not, i just thought i'd highlight what the OP posted about his friend. nothing about the delta blues, the celtic blues or the navy blues, and aretha franklin is mentioned, who i've never really considered blues. so it sounds like the guy is fairly open minded about the blues in general

but things like nothing compares 2 u, the dark, sign o the times, ICNTTPOYM, and pussy control aren't blues. they are a mix of soul, rnb, pop and rock

So far everyone is making a valid point with regards to Prince vs the Blues...

except this comment, which i think is a bit uncalled for :

iloveannie said:

Your final sentence suggests that you didn't understand a single fucking word. Lol

This friend lets me know of other blues artists but I have no idea of their names, the only ones that stand out by recognition is Aretha Franklin, BB King etc - I just wanted to broaden his mind to the music of Prince as I love his music and wanted to share it with him.

Maybe as TrevorAyer said I should try to turn him onto Prince's funky pop side instead.

FunkySideEffects said:

So far everyone is making a valid point with regards to Prince vs the Blues...

except this comment, which i think is a bit uncalled for :

iloveannie said:

Your final sentence suggests that you didn't understand a single fucking word. Lol

This friend lets me know of other blues artists but I have no idea of their names, the only ones that stand out by recognition is Aretha Franklin, BB King etc - I just wanted to broaden his mind to the music of Prince as I love his music and wanted to share it with him.

Maybe as TrevorAyer said I should try to turn him onto Prince's funky pop side instead.

[img:$uid]http://blog.timesunion.com/localarts/files/2012/01/blues-name.jpg[/img:$uid]

sleepy dog thompkins is prince's blues name

boney bones jefferson! lmao

sleepy bones malone, i dig it

So far everyone is making a valid point with regards to Prince vs the Blues...

except this comment, which i think is a bit uncalled for :

iloveannie said:

Your final sentence suggests that you didn't understand a single fucking word. Lol

This friend lets me know of other blues artists but I have no idea of their names, the only ones that stand out by recognition is Aretha Franklin, BB King etc - I just wanted to broaden his mind to the music of Prince as I love his music and wanted to share it with him.

Maybe as TrevorAyer said I should try to turn him onto Prince's funky pop side instead.

unique said:

[img:$uid]http://blog.timesunion.com/localarts/files/2012/01/blues-name.jpg[/img:$uid]

sleepy dog thompkins is prince's blues name

I got Sleepy Money Jones but I'm now wishing my initials were TXX. lol.

Fat Killer Lee, me.

Fat Liver Lee, the wife.

Jailhouse Liver Jackson, the daughter.

Skinny Harp II, the dog.

Hmm, not as good as I thought they'd be. Was hoping for Sticky Willy Malone.

The Ride, from the Undertaker, Don't Play Me, The Truth, Alphabet Street Blues, Another Lonely Christmas, I'm In The Mood from the Monaco concert boot.

Prince is the master of the blues.

Prince, like a lot of rockers, is blues-influenced.

Nobody with any reasonable knowledge of blues and certainly no purists would consider any of Prince's songs blues.

He has some tracks that follow blues progressions but he is not a blues artist.

Knowledgeable admirers of the genre would just laugh at you.

BlaqueKnight said:

He has some tracks that follow blues progressions but he is not a blues artist.

That.

Like Kiss or Alphabet street. Or U got the Look.

BlaqueKnight said:

Prince, like a lot of rockers, is blues-influenced.

Nobody with any reasonable knowledge of blues and certainly no purists would consider any of Prince's songs blues.

He has some tracks that follow blues progressions but he is not a blues artist.

Knowledgeable admirers of the genre would just laugh at you.

I fully agree. I've got a modest collection of blues artists but not once have I thought of labelling Prince as such. Not even a single song.

Just because it's pentatonic and has twelve bars does not make it blues.

BlaqueKnight said:

Prince, like a lot of rockers, is blues-influenced.

Nobody with any reasonable knowledge of blues and certainly no purists would consider any of Prince's songs blues.

He has some tracks that follow blues progressions but he is not a blues artist.

Knowledgeable admirers of the genre would just laugh at you.

.........so what if they do?

I'd take Prince's version of the Blues over ANY Blues artsit alive or dead.

the question of u is a bit blusey

unique said:

FunkySideEffects said:

So far everyone is making a valid point with regards to Prince vs the Blues...

except this comment, which i think is a bit uncalled for :

This friend lets me know of other blues artists but I have no idea of their names, the only ones that stand out by recognition is Aretha Franklin, BB King etc - I just wanted to broaden his mind to the music of Prince as I love his music and wanted to share it with him.

Maybe as TrevorAyer said I should try to turn him onto Prince's funky pop side instead.

[img:$uid]http://blog.timesunion.com/localarts/files/2012/01/blues-name.jpg[/img:$uid]

sleepy dog thompkins is prince's blues name

Boney Foot Washington! That's my Name! Haha

Graycap23 said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Prince, like a lot of rockers, is blues-influenced.

Nobody with any reasonable knowledge of blues and certainly no purists would consider any of Prince's songs blues.

He has some tracks that follow blues progressions but he is not a blues artist.

Knowledgeable admirers of the genre would just laugh at you.

.........so what if they do?

I'd take Prince's version of the Blues over ANY Blues artsit alive or dead.

Which just means that you don't like blues or you don't know what good blues sounds like.