I would personally rather have CT's Parade, Do U Lie and Mountains than Daddy Pop, Push and Jughead as "crap" or "filler" lol.

I disagree with 1999 too. I think it's a great album but it has tracks a lot of people don't like so much actually, like Automatic and All the critics.

It's a matter of taste of course, but ALL his albums (even NPS and Rave) have great and less great songs. Some have more mediocre or "crap/filler" songs than others.

But it's clear that this got worse in the 90's. I blame it on the CD and the extra money the industry intended to make by filling them.

Tremolina said:

ufoclub said:

Lot's of people can't stomach the crap songs he put out before 1988 too. I always thought there were only a few honest gems on every single album. the rest are usually failed experiments or not quite baked right.

Where are these people? lol

I think the main secret in the 80's was that albums simply NEVER had more than 9 or 10 songs, unless they were double albums.

With the CD in the 90's this changed.

Funny thing is that his two double LP sets in the 80's are absolute gems. Technology is not the issue, Prince's state of mind is.

eavlinc said:

Tremolina said:

Where are these people? lol

I think the main secret in the 80's was that albums simply NEVER had more than 9 or 10 songs, unless they were double albums.

With the CD in the 90's this changed.

Funny thing is that his two double LP sets in the 80's are absolute gems. Technology is not the issue, Prince's state of mind is.

When released 1999 and SOTT actually didn't sell al that great. As ufo pointed out, many people thought quite a few songs on SOTT for example were not so great...

In time however, both thes albums have grown to become absolute Prince classics.

I honestly think Prince has a couple of gems on each album he sends forward. As with time, some songs you listen to on first listen ultimately grows on you. So many have, and that is what I find very spectacular.

I think he should have waited some time to release new albums, but the way it went down, I am quite satisfied. It's not like Prince was just GOOD in the 80's. I don't accept that notion, because here is a man that has done so many styles of music, and it was not limited to the 80's. He's really a genius in how he arranges and produces songs; it has his signature. He has experimented with so many styles, and while some of them are not that good, it shows his diversity. He can still pull it off great. IMO.

I think we can sometimes focus too much on the 80's when it comes to Prince. Saying after 'Lovesexy/Black Album' (Which are 2 of my favorite albums and concepts) he went downhill, is misinformed to me. I think it was a beginning for him. A rebirth! REBIRTH OF THE FLESH! Haha, It's like he went another direction while still maintaining some old antics mixed with new. People have to remember, HIP HOP in the 90's really carried a lot of 80's stars out the window. Prince went along with it, and mixed it with his sound. Some of it, is not good, but I would not go as far to say ANY of this ALBUMS as a whole suck all together after 88/89. Filler exists greatly, in some of his albums. He seems like he gets bored and just makes a song for the heck of it, without really putting much into it. Emancipation for example is a landmark album, and I think he was born to make something like that. I personally would have liked it if it was limited to 2 CD's instead of 3.

But it was like a slap in the face to WB, because every time he wanted to do a 3 CD set, they rejected it. So it was like him, saying; I am making a 3CD set for once! Haha

But to answer your question, I think he could have waited maybe 2 years. However, looking back, I think all of his albums came out exactly when they should have. They all speaks to everyone differently! I am expecting a new album next year though!

As he said: " I've seen the future and it will be
I've seen the future and it works
And if there's life after, we will see
So I can't go like a jerk"

Some would say he went like a jerk, but..We will see in the future! (That is how all music is really appreciated..IN THE FUTURE..lol)

EyeJester7 said:

I think we can sometimes focus too much on the 80's when it comes to Prince. Saying after 'Lovesexy/Black Album' (Which are 2 of my favorite albums and concepts) he went downhill, is misinformed to me. I think it was a beginning for him. A rebirth! REBIRTH OF THE FLESH! Haha, It's like he went another direction while still maintaining some old antics mixed with new. People have to remember, HIP HOP in the 90's really carried a lot of 80's stars out the window. Prince went along with it, and mixed it with his sound.

In a way you could right, as for "re-birth". He played with that concept quite a lot in those days.

But I think it had to do more with his issues with WB.

With that ridiculous contract they got themselves into, WB wanted to see MEGA sales. Of course. It was because of that contract with WB that Prince decided to get on the hiphop boat with Tony M and they approved. Some of it actually was pretty good, but did it work out? Did he sell more albums and gain more fans? Except for D&P I don't think so. More like the opposite. What about his artistic integrity? Did he sell a lot of that? Uhhm...

[Edited 12/16/11 11:26am]

But you have make a question to yourself, what will be Prince's career without a whole name change, NPG and freedom sounds?

EyeJester7 said:

I honestly think Prince has a couple of gems on each album he sends forward.

^This.

Prime example: 20Ten. I agree that it was a pretty much forgettable, mediocre record, though "Laydown" is a decent fun track. But there is one winner in that album, a true classic in my book and probably in my top 25 Prince tracks ever: "Act of God."

Tremolina said:

eavlinc said:

Funny thing is that his two double LP sets in the 80's are absolute gems. Technology is not the issue, Prince's state of mind is.

When released 1999 and SOTT actually didn't sell al that great. As ufo pointed out, many people thought quite a few songs on SOTT for example were not so great...

In time however, both thes albums have grown to become absolute Prince classics.

So then in time some of those post 80's albums will become alsolute Prince classics?

eavlinc said:

Tremolina said:

When released 1999 and SOTT actually didn't sell al that great. As ufo pointed out, many people thought quite a few songs on SOTT for example were not so great...

In time however, both thes albums have grown to become absolute Prince classics.

So then in time some of those post 80's albums will become alsolute Prince classics?

So far they haven't...

RRA said:

EyeJester7 said:

I honestly think Prince has a couple of gems on each album he sends forward.

^This.

Prime example: 20Ten. I agree that it was a pretty much forgettable, mediocre record, though "Laydown" is a decent fun track. But there is one winner in that album, a true classic in my book and probably in my top 25 Prince tracks ever: "Act of God."

that's exactly what this thread is about, a lot of post-1988 albums with a couple of gems, but too much filler and/or turkeys...

chelsearodgerslovesya said:

But you have make a question to yourself, what will be Prince's career without a whole name change, NPG and freedom sounds?

I agree.

All that was just bound to happen one day. And it just so happened to be in the early to mid nineties...

Tremolina said:

ufoclub said:

Lot's of people can't stomach the crap songs he put out before 1988 too. I always thought there were only a few honest gems on every single album. the rest are usually failed experiments or not quite baked right.

Where are these people? lol

The masses. Just look at his album sales in the USA post 1984. Until 1989 he never had an album that was one of the top ten sellers of the year. His albums post Purple Rain were not ALL universally praised by critics. The man had some monster singles, but he also had some songs that flopped on the airwaves/singles charts.

I only say this to point out that Prince's success in the 80's wasn't like many people claim. His career has always been kind of up and down and uneven.

In terms of mainstream success there was a stretch between 1984 and 1989 that the masses kind of ignored him in the US. Parade was viewed as a flop (except for "kiss"). And the lovesexy tour played to a few half empty venues. Imagine that? 4 years after Purple Rain, Prince cannot sell out all venues in the US? He has more success in that regard nowadays.

I think the main secret in the 80's was that albums simply NEVER had more than 9 or 10 songs, unless they were double albums.

With the CD in the 90's this changed.

Absolutely dead on good point. I've never eally thought about this before.

[Edited 12/17/11 11:17am]

skywalker said:

Tremolina said:

The masses. Just look at his album sales in the USA post 1984. Until 1989 he never had an album that was one of the top ten sellers of the year. His albums post Purple Rain were not ALL universally praised by critics. The man had some monster singles, but he also had some songs that flopped on the airwaves/singles charts.

I only say this to point out that Prince's success in the 80's wasn't like many people claim. His career has always been kind of up and down and uneven.

In terms of mainstream success there was a stretch between 1984 and 1989 that the masses kind of ignored him in the US. Parade was viewed as a flop (except for "kiss"). And the lovesexy tour played to a few half empty venues. Imagine that? 4 years after Purple Rain, Prince cannot sell out all venues in the US? He has more success in that regard nowadays.

You are right. Except for Purple Rain, Prince was never really "HUGE" in terms of record sales and critical acclaim.

BUT you are also exclusively speaking from the American perspective here. In Europe, things were very different. Almost the opposite actually. When Parade, SOTT and LoveSexy more or less "bombed" in the US, these albums and especially their accompanying tours, were major "hits" in Europe.

So in the end these two extremes compensated eachother. In fact, I think Prince selled more albums and gained more fans with it, worldwide, than if he wouldn't have release these albums and done these tours. Even if he did lose out on the US legs of the tours...

I think the main secret in the 80's was that albums simply NEVER had more than 9 or 10 songs, unless they were double albums.

With the CD in the 90's this changed.

Absolutely dead on good point. I've never eally thought about this before.

[Edited 12/17/11 11:17am]

"The CD killed the music industry"

No serious, the CD was the START of it. That's when everything started rolling...

[Edited 12/17/11 12:16pm]

JoeTyler said:

we all know that the man has released some crap after 1988, but that's only because he has released way too many albums after his peak (82-87), with too much filler or embarrassing songs; the way I see it, Prince should have stopped with the "one album per year" thing, he should have released one new album every two, three or EVEN four years after 1988...

for me, this could have been a KILLER/FLAWLESS post-1988 career

D&P 1991

LoveSymbol 1992

TGE 1994

Emancipation (one disc only) 1996

Rave (remix) (1999)

TRC (2001)

Musicology (2004)

3121 (2006)

LotusFlow3r (2009)

20Ten (2010)

new album? 2012?

so, the point is: can you ignore/forgive his frequent mistakes/bullshit of the post-1988 era and just concentrate on the good stuff he has released during the last 22 years?

[Edited 12/15/11 10:57am]

Firstly I will say this. Most people agree or express that Emancipation should be one disc however the problem is getting two people to agree what should be on it from the triple disc

I've done this with 10 Prince fans in a room and got 10 completely diffrent set lists. When we averaged out the ones most people liked nobody was impressed because inveriably there favourite was left off.

Also you've left off some of my favourite albums and songs, Songs I personally consider some of his best ever work.

If you don't like it don't listen but don't deprive us of our favourites

Also I don't think everything pre 88 was flawless, I think the Prince album had it's fair share of filler (not bad songs just not world class).

Also just out of curiosity would you have released The Black Album as it was released 94 but recorded 87?

Tremolina said:

skywalker said:

"The CD killed the music industry"

No serious, the CD was the START of it. That's when everything started rolling...

[Edited 12/17/11 12:16pm]

Y'all killed the music industry.

Timmy84 said:

Tremolina said:

"The CD killed the music industry"

No serious, the CD was the START of it. That's when everything started rolling...

[Edited 12/17/11 12:16pm]

Y'all killed the music industry.

No, no, it all started with the music industry making us pay for the same product twice. There was a lot of money generated just by a new medium...not content!

There's still some really good stuff once in awhile which is more than I can ask for from a lot of artists that have been in it as long as he has. Playlists make it really easy to cut out the fat.

It also helps that I do not give a shit about his personal life or beliefs.

chopingard said:

Firstly I will say this. Most people agree or express that Emancipation should be one disc however the problem is getting two people to agree what should be on it from the triple disc

I've done this with 10 Prince fans in a room and got 10 completely diffrent set lists. When we averaged out the ones most people liked nobody was impressed because inveriably there favourite was left off.

Also you've left off some of my favourite albums and songs, Songs I personally consider some of his best ever work.

If you don't like it don't listen but don't deprive us of our favourites

Also I don't think everything pre 88 was flawless, I think the Prince album had it's fair share of filler (not bad songs just not world class).

Also just out of curiosity would you have released The Black Album as it was released 94 but recorded 87?

And some of us wish that it had been four seventy-five minute discs. Three hours of new Prince music was great but five hours of new Prince music would have been even better.

My take on post 1988 Prince.

!980-1988 out put is all amazing.

Batman Fantastic

Graffiti Bridge Fantastic

D&P Very Good

Symbol Good

Come Good

TGE Very Good

Chaos And Disorder OK

Emancipation OK

The Truth OK

NPS OK

Rave Good

The Rainbow Children Very Good

ONA Boring

Xpectation OK

NEWS OK

Chocolate Invasion OK

Slaugherhouse Poor/OK

Musicology Good

3121 Fantastic

Planet Earth very Good

Lotus Flower Very Good

MPLSound Very Good

20ten Very Good

rialb said:

chopingard said:

Firstly I will say this. Most people agree or express that Emancipation should be one disc however the problem is getting two people to agree what should be on it from the triple disc

I've done this with 10 Prince fans in a room and got 10 completely diffrent set lists. When we averaged out the ones most people liked nobody was impressed because inveriably there favourite was left off.

Also you've left off some of my favourite albums and songs, Songs I personally consider some of his best ever work.

If you don't like it don't listen but don't deprive us of our favourites

Also I don't think everything pre 88 was flawless, I think the Prince album had it's fair share of filler (not bad songs just not world class).

Also just out of curiosity would you have released The Black Album as it was released 94 but recorded 87?

And some of us wish that it had been four seventy-five minute discs. Three hours of new Prince music was great but five hours of new Prince music would have been even better.

Oh you don't know how with you on that I am

I'm still waiting on a 9 disk set from him, Come on Prince I know you could whip one up no problem

chopingard said:

rialb said:

And some of us wish that it had been four seventy-five minute discs. Three hours of new Prince music was great but five hours of new Prince music would have been even better.

Oh you don't know how with you on that I am

I'm still waiting on a 9 disk set from him, Come on Prince I know you could whip one up no problem

And I thought I was the only one.

for a long time i was scared dto listen to any of his music after d&p, because people are constantly bitching about it. but honestly theres a lot of really great music in the 90s, i really fell in love with tge

funkomatic said:

Timmy84 said:

Y'all killed the music industry.

No, no, it all started with the music industry making us pay for the same product twice. There was a lot of money generated just by a new medium...not content!

Nobody forced you to pay for your albums again on CD really. But you are right, the industry did profit the hell out of the many people who replaced their entire LP collection on CD. That basically doubled their profits for several years in a row...

My point however had to do with the extra space for musical "filler" the CD ALSO made possible. How many CD's from the 90's and on are actually like true albums, consisting of a MAXIMUM of 9 to 10 (really strong) songs?

Not that many I can assure you.

[Edited 12/18/11 6:52am]

The industry then says that they only cramped up their CD's with filler to give the music lovers as much music as possible.

Sound argument, no?

For some acts and albums maybe, but not really, because the true motivations have to do with making more profits.

More tracks on one album sold, means more master and publishing right royalties. Simple as that.

Just promote the hell out of one or two "good" singles and then you can bank on the CD filled with subpar music as much as possible too...

Crucial to why the price of CD's was never brought down, after the industry had already gained back the "costs of investment" in CD recording and production technology....

[Edited 12/18/11 7:05am]

Well if you include Come (my favorite Prince album), all 3 discs of Emancipation, Batman, Graffitti Bridge, and Planet Earth, and ignore 20ten

[Edited 12/18/11 7:57am]

EyeJester7 said:

I honestly think Prince has a couple of gems on each album he sends forward.

funkomatic said:

Timmy84 said:

Y'all killed the music industry.

No, no, it all started with the music industry making us pay for the same product twice. There was a lot of money generated just by a new medium...not content!

Riiiight... but it wasn't like Mr. Evil Music Industry Exec held a gun to your head to buy it.

Timmy84 said:

funkomatic said:

No, no, it all started with the music industry making us pay for the same product twice. There was a lot of money generated just by a new medium...not content!

Riiiight... but it wasn't like Mr. Evil Music Industry Exec held a gun to your head to buy it.

It reminds me of people who get upset at buying a new gadget only to see it become obsolete a year later. If you like your 1.5 megapixel camera from 3 years ago, keep it. Don't get upset becasue there is another one out now.

By the same token I still collect and love my Prince related vinyl more than his mp3's. Purchase what you like. Or don't. It's up to you.