Some orgers will not be happy with a vault track being released unless Prince doesn't do anything but clean up the sound for them. He's not allowed to alter it in any other way whatsoever. Of course the likelihood of this happening is probably 50/50 depending on the track being unearthed from the archives. He left didn't touch 'Splash' but changed 'In A Large Room with No Light'. If this version 'Extraloveable' isn't your cup of tea then wait a year or so maybe you'll get a pristine, crispy clean, immaculate recording of 'Big Tall Wall' for your discerning pallette!

[Edited 11/24/11 16:34pm]

^always that frustration

I understand but why care so much? I mean, I actually love the new version of WCF but I really couldn't care less about all the peope who were hating on it. That's just a waste of time and energy man...

Tremolina said:

^always that frustration

I understand but why care so much? I mean, I actually love the new version of WCF but I really couldn't care less about all the peope who were hating on it. That's just a waste of time and energy man...

Because I don't put a at the end of my sarcastic/rude/demeaning statements doesn't mean I'm frustrated.

HonestMan13 said:

Tremolina said:

^always that frustration

I understand but why care so much? I mean, I actually love the new version of WCF but I really couldn't care less about all the peope who were hating on it. That's just a waste of time and energy man...

Because I don't put a at the end of my sarcastic/rude/demeaning statements doesn't mean I'm frustrated.

Okay cool, it's just that I perceive you to be bothered by others people's opinions a lot, that's all. I understand tho

Tremolina said:

Dave1992 said:

What people seem to forget is that it takes another creative dimension to take your own already existing song and make it sound completely different.

You may prefer one version over the other, of course, but I think that this should be taken into account when forming such a strong opinion on this new song.

When you record a song (which you have constructured for days and then spent hours on recording it, mixing it etc) you usually listen to it at least 50 times. Then you decide whether you're satisfied or not etc. Most musicians just do it that way and it's also understandable. It's out of question that you familiarise yourself with this song more than anyone else could do. While listening to it, you not only of course know all the words and sounds, but your fingers actually twitch as if you were playing the lick on the guitar - your brain just remembers everything, even 10+ years later.

The steps Prince took to create a new version are simple, yet huge if you take into account that the old version was a finished article and considered a perfect song. He completely let go of all that and came up with something different - a funky, R&B style, fresh song. Slowing it down and delivering the lyrics out-of-time, the rap part, changing the power chords of the guitar into major chord melodies on the synth, adding the octave in the choir of the chorus etc.

Believe me, it's easier to write a completely new song than to take a finished, perfect song and create a completely new song out of it, that would definitely be able to stand on its own, especially when the original song is your own.

I think we should give him at peast props for that, no matter whether the new version is as jaw-dropping as the old one (how could it even be? No song could ever reach the mystery of an old bootleg that was released when most of you were young and full of sex, that had a rape-part in it...)!

Well said Dave and a lot of good points. But, to be completely honest, I still like the original version better

Nah seriously, as far as Im concerned it's all cool, some people on here take any opportunity to get their panties in a bunch. But what do they know really about music?

All I really care about is that Prince again re-visited one of his unreleased classics, but that the r&b style he gave to it, is not to my liking. I like the funky rhytm guitar he now plays but I miss the original hunting linn based rhytm and raging guitar of the original.

Then again, the snippet of the re-make of We Can funk sounded lovely to my ears.

Hit and miss

So ppl don't like one piece of shit song, and their knowledge of music is being questioned?? Oh, I forgot; you need a masters in musical theory like you guys have in order to even begin to know what we're talking about when it comes to funk. Again, I say

there

is

no

mother

fucking

autotune

alexnvrmnd777 said:

So ppl don't like one piece of shit song, and their knowledge of music is being questioned?? Oh, I forgot; you need a masters in musical theory like you guys have in order to even begin to know what we're talking about when it comes to funk.

IstenSzek said:

why are people still saying that he changes these songs so much because he won't be

able to release the original recordings?

hasn't it been assessed yet that he can do whatever he wants with his unreleased and

unheard songs?

he's done it before in a few instances. notably with 20 songs on "crystal ball".

prince wasn't simply 'allowed' to release crystal ball because warners were still hoping

he would come back to them. their deals were done by then, prince delivered all that

he had to and went his own way.

the only reason prince changes these songs around is because he wants to do it that

way. tracks on crystal ball were changed too, either for mixing the discs coherently,

or because of old bandmates involvement (crystal ball without wendy and lisa etc etc).

more recently with tracks like "large room with no light" and now "extraloveable" he's

just pulling those old songs out of the vault for some reason, probably because he has

remembered them for some reason of because new people in his inner circle tell him

how much they used to like this or that song when they were young. i mean, you can

be sure prince asks them if they heard the bootlegs. the subject will come up.

whatever. he dusts off a track and in his new mindset, 30 years down the road, he is

listening to this differently from the way we are. like he said in an interview a little

while back about listening to his old albums and being somewhat embarassed about

his guitar playing on them. he just listens to those tracks and is probably either too

critical on himself or thinks "yeah, the song is good, but it needs something else....."

to me that seems far more likely than there being any legal ramifications if he would

decide to release his vault stuff online or on cd in unchanged format.

you can bet that prince thinks this version is the shit or he wouldn't release it. he's in

rehearsal for the canada tour and just like with "large room with no light" they plan on

playing this one live. doc funkenberry reported about a 25 minute live version of it a

while ago.

but whatever the reason is. i'm beyond being angry when he releases anything that is

tampered with or re-recorded. what's the point anyway?

when we got crystal ball and we got to hear some of those cherished bootlegs in good

quality, it didn't really enhance those songs for me. it was cool, very cool. but it's not

like i consider "moviestar" from the crystal ball album to be miles above the bootleg

version. the soundquality is better, yes. but a part of the mystique is also gone and a

lot of the bootleg material has been ingrained into your mind for 20 years now and it

just changes a lot when you hear it in "good quality". that sounds weird, but it's true

for me.

at the end of the day i just view this as a nice surprise release that doesn't irk me in

any way. well except for the rap, perhaps, lol.

it would be cool to get the old albums remastered with all these outtakes added to

them, like everyone and their mother has been doing for the past decade. but prince

doesn't seem into that. possibly in that case indeed because of shit with warners he

can't get leveled out. or because of other reasons.

in the meantime, i'm bobbing my head to this song. and if the original ever surfaces

on a remaster, great. if not, the bootleg is pretty good quality and i've heard it so

many times that i can play that song in my mind without every even listening to it

anymore.

on that note, bring on a full album or 2 disc set of prime vault material in new and

alternate versions. it's a nice experiment at least.

well, most of it, anyway...

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Tremolina said:

Well said Dave and a lot of good points. But, to be completely honest, I still like the original version better

Nah seriously, as far as Im concerned it's all cool, some people on here take any opportunity to get their panties in a bunch. But what do they know really about music?

All I really care about is that Prince again re-visited one of his unreleased classics, but that the r&b style he gave to it, is not to my liking. I like the funky rhytm guitar he now plays but I miss the original hunting linn based rhytm and raging guitar of the original.

Then again, the snippet of the re-make of We Can funk sounded lovely to my ears.

Hit and miss

So ppl don't like one piece of shit song, and their knowledge of music is being questioned?? Oh, I forgot; you need a masters in musical theory like you guys have in order to even begin to know what we're talking about when it comes to funk. Again, I say

Vendetta1 said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

So ppl don't like one piece of shit song, and their knowledge of music is being questioned?? Oh, I forgot; you need a masters in musical theory like you guys have in order to even begin to know what we're talking about when it comes to funk. Again, I say

Tremolina said:

Vendetta1 said:

It's not so much that I disagree with you that I agree with his point. Like i've said before, either you like a song or you don't. it doesn't make anything wrong with a person if they don't like something. A few people here take things way too far.

I just tried to download it from iTunes by changing my country to Canada, but apparently that doesn't work. I'm sure I could find online from all sorts of illegal sources, but I'm too lazy to bother. So I guess I won't hear the full version and Prince won't get my 99 cents. Oh well...

Dave1992 said:

Why are people angry because Prince didn't release a song the way they want it when they already "have" the version they do like? JS

I don't hate it. In fact, I like it quite a bit. On par with the original, for me. But then I've never been as impressed with the original outtake as most others seem to be.

NeonCraxx said:

I can't stop listening to the full cut INCLUDING Allo's vocals. The lyrics are corny but I like her rap flow, I'd gladly listen to her than Nicki Minaj's "Super Bass" anyday.

Also love the fact how updated it sounds. The production is kickass and has a lot going on.

It began and ended very well.

I love the original and revamped versions both equally.

My thoughts exactly. I love them both!

Militant said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

The purple Kool-Aid drinking in these parts is just simply AMAZING!!!

It's nothing compared to the vitriolic hating going on.

define hate

V10LETBLUES said:

What did Prince do to these poor folks to look so disconsolate.

He probably fined them all $500 for stepping outside their hotel room with a beer in their hand.

jtfolden said:

V10LETBLUES said:

What did Prince do to these poor folks to look so disconsolate.

He probably fined them all $500 for stepping outside their hotel room with a beer in their hand.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Tremolina said:

Well said Dave and a lot of good points. But, to be completely honest, I still like the original version better

Nah seriously, as far as Im concerned it's all cool, some people on here take any opportunity to get their panties in a bunch. But what do they know really about music?

All I really care about is that Prince again re-visited one of his unreleased classics, but that the r&b style he gave to it, is not to my liking. I like the funky rhytm guitar he now plays but I miss the original hunting linn based rhytm and raging guitar of the original.

Then again, the snippet of the re-make of We Can funk sounded lovely to my ears.

Hit and miss

So ppl don't like one piece of shit song, and their knowledge of music is being questioned?? Oh, I forgot; you need a masters in musical theory like you guys have in order to even begin to know what we're talking about when it comes to funk. Again, I say

No, you misunderstood me. Whether you like it or not is highly subjective and I'm not interested in trying to change your personal opinion. I would just like for people to show respect to the art of making music and to take into account what it takes to re-record a classic in a completely new manner.

Plus, take into account that the bootleg version is a huge mystery to all of us (logically). Because musically, it may be interesting, but certainly not ground-breaking or fascinating. Don't get me wrong - the original is holy! -, but looking at it objectively you can't deny that it is not The Grand Progression...

I was just shocked at how rude and impolite some people were in expressing that they didn't like a song...

ThreadBare said:

Dave1992 said:

What people seem to forget is that it takes another creative dimension to take your own already existing song and make it sound completely different.

You may prefer one version over the other, of course, but I think that this should be taken into account when forming such a strong opinion on this new song.

When you record a song (which you have constructured for days and then spent hours on recording it, mixing it etc) you usually listen to it at least 50 times. Then you decide whether you're satisfied or not etc. Most musicians just do it that way and it's also understandable. It's out of question that you familiarise yourself with this song more than anyone else could do. While listening to it, you not only of course know all the words and sounds, but your fingers actually twitch as if you were playing the lick on the guitar - your brain just remembers everything, even 10+ years later.

The steps Prince took to create a new version are simple, yet huge if you take into account that the old version was a finished article and considered a perfect song. He completely let go of all that and came up with something different - a funky, R&B style, fresh song. Slowing it down and delivering the lyrics out-of-time, the rap part, changing the power chords of the guitar into major chord melodies on the synth, adding the octave in the choir of the chorus etc.

Believe me, it's easier to write a completely new song than to take a finished, perfect song and create a completely new song out of it, that would definitely be able to stand on its own, especially when the original song is your own.

I think we should give him at peast props for that, no matter whether the new version is as jaw-dropping as the old one (how could it even be? No song could ever reach the mystery of an old bootleg that was released when most of you were young and full of sex, that had a rape-part in it...)!

Couldn't disagree more, and that's speaking as an artist and session musician in a music town. It's far easier to record an inferior "update" of a song than record one that recaptures the essence that made that first take or version special.

Well, that's highly subjective too. I bet you'd agree with me if the update wasn't "inferior" in your opinion

I do hope that we can agree on the fact that simply slowing down a song and adding a rap doesn't automatically create a new version of any given song and makes it sound like a proper song of its own. I gave some examples in my original post.

wonder505 said:

Ok I gave it a second listen and its not that bad. I think because I was so in love with the original the remake shocked me a little. I think the problem with this song is the over autotuned part on the chorus which i was not prepared for. I've always loved the way Prince harmonizes his own voice on choruses so this is something new. if that part was cleaner it was a good song. I could see this rocking out live. Nothing will take away the stripped down rawness of the original but this one is much better than the horrificness of the 1999 remake i also think that group that remixed that other version was better.

There is no auto-tune on that song! What you hear is a dense vocal recording, especially because some voc tracks were doubled (which makes it sound even more dense and strong, because of the tiny imperfections in timing and frequency). It's what you hear during the verses too, only with 4 different tracks all at once.

It's probably his vocals that are the weakest part of this remake.

novabrkr said:

It's probably his vocals that are the weakest part of this remake.

totally agree. he sounds off. not quite in the pocket.

Gonna be honest here... i don't really like it. its kind of boring and doesn't sound he really cares to put in any effort. like just he said "fans always talk about this song... so here. maybe they'll shut up about it now." lol.

i could be wrong though.

Militant said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

The purple Kool-Aid drinking in these parts is just simply AMAZING!!!

It's nothing compared to the vitriolic hating going on.

You disagree with the comments, so now they're consdiered "hate"???? Pffft.

And, shout out to my boy, Vitriol!!! We miss ya, homey!

Dave1992 said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

So ppl don't like one piece of shit song, and their knowledge of music is being questioned?? Oh, I forgot; you need a masters in musical theory like you guys have in order to even begin to know what we're talking about when it comes to funk. Again, I say

No, you misunderstood me. Whether you like it or not is highly subjective and I'm not interested in trying to change your personal opinion. I would just like for people to show respect to the art of making music and to take into account what it takes to re-record a classic in a completely new manner.

Plus, take into account that the bootleg version is a huge mystery to all of us (logically). Because musically, it may be interesting, but certainly not ground-breaking or fascinating. Don't get me wrong - the original is holy! -, but looking at it objectively you can't deny that it is not The Grand Progression...

I was just shocked at how rude and impolite some people were in expressing that they didn't like a song...

What I would respect more would be his ability to know when not to fuck with something that didn't need to be fucked with in the first place. And unfortunately, he no longer has this ability. Artists do re-recordings ALL the time, so I'm not going to try to find one little bright spot in this by saying, "Well hey, he had the nerve to fuck it up! I guess that's a good thing!" It's done very often! Hell, he did the same with "In A Large Room With No Light" too, and that was also a travesty. He's TRULY lost his ear from back in the 80s - back when he recorded these outtake treasures - when at least he somewhat knew what truly good music (of his own) sounded like.