Hello!

I've been a member here forever, but never had much reason to post!

I met Angelo Moore, the lead singer of Fishbone, a few weeks ago and got to talk with him for a little bit.

For those who don't know, it's Angelo's voice shouting "bitch!" that Prince sampled and used in "Billy Jack Bitch." The sample came from Fishbone's 1985 song "Lyin' Ass Bitch."

Anyway, I asked Angelo if Prince had gotten Fishbone's permission to sample them, and he quickly said "NO!!" He didn't go into much detail, but he wasn't happy about it at all. He sort of implied that they couldn't afford all the high-priced lawyers that Prince can.

I remember reading that Prince didn't get the Hendrix estate's permission to sample the drums of "Little Miss Lover" for "Tick, Tick, Bang" either. It's a shame. Prince would sue the pants off anyone who did that to him.

galactus said:

He sort of implied that they couldn't afford all the high-priced lawyers that Prince can.

Not an isolated story.

galactus said:

I remember reading that Prince didn't get the Hendrix estate's permission to sample the drums of "Little Miss Lover" for "Tick, Tick, Bang" either. It's a shame. Prince would sue the pants off anyone who did that to him.

It was around this time/just after that the big sampling cases regarding 'U Can't Touch This' etc were happening, but I think Prince just slipped under the radar here in terms of timeframe.

If you check the 'Gold Experience' CD jacket, he did acknowledge that there is a sample of 'Lyin Ass Bitch' from Fishbone (and I bought my CD the first day it was released so it's not a reprint or anything). I honestly don't think he would credit someone in print at the same time as he was ripping them off. Just my thoughts.

NouveauDance said:

galactus said:

He sort of implied that they couldn't afford all the high-priced lawyers that Prince can.

Not an isolated story.

galactus said:

I remember reading that Prince didn't get the Hendrix estate's permission to sample the drums of "Little Miss Lover" for "Tick, Tick, Bang" either. It's a shame. Prince would sue the pants off anyone who did that to him.

It was around this time/just after that the big sampling cases regarding 'U Can't Touch This' etc were happening, but I think Prince just slipped under the radar here in terms of timeframe.

iwonderyou said:

If you check the 'Gold Experience' CD jacket, he did acknowledge that there is a sample of 'Lyin Ass Bitch' from Fishbone (and I bought my CD the first day it was released so it's not a reprint or anything). I honestly don't think he would credit someone in print at the same time as he was ripping them off. Just my thoughts.

NouveauDance said:

It was around this time/just after that the big sampling cases regarding 'U Can't Touch This' etc were happening, but I think Prince just slipped under the radar here in terms of timeframe.

The credit on the CD indicates that he did probably get permission and pay for it, but Angelo Moore's statement probably means it wasn't Fishbone that gave permission or got paid. Remember, Sinead O'Connor got P's song from Warner, and she didn't need or even want P's permission! These songs belong to the record companies.

But the funny thing is: it sounds just like Sonny T. - so why he didn't get Sonny to shout Bitch! in the first place...

But wasn't Prince saying on Lopez Tonight that anyone can cover your song as long as they pay you royalties for it, the same could apply for samples, he probably just payed for the sample regardless.

I've never understood this. Why not sample your damn self saying what ever word u wanted a sample?

bigd74 said:

But wasn't Prince saying on Lopez Tonight that anyone can cover your song as long as they pay you royalties for it, the same could apply for samples, he probably just payed for the sample regardless.

Exactly - you dont' need explicit permission from the creator, you just need to credit it and pay for it. Its called "Creative Common Licence". So, yes, you can cover/sample a song, as long as you pay the copyright owner properly.

Prince wouldn't have needed Fishbone's permission, but he does credit it on the album and, therefore, would have paid for it too. Don't see what their problem is with it - its not like he took their riff or something - he sampled a word!

And he may have sampled that word because he likes the tune, so its a small homage. Really don't get what Angelo's problem with it is. (unless they did something stupid like reliquished their rights/publishing and didn't get jack shit for it - instead it went to the label or something).

fantasticjoy said:

It's just one word he sampled, I wouldn't see why he'd need permission. Did Arrested Development ask permission for sampling Prince saying Tennessee?

No - but you can be sure they had to pay!

bobbyperu said:

All of this is of course why Prince wants to keep such a tight control over his work. He doesn't want to be in Angelo's shoes! This may be selfish or hypocrite but it is understandable.

He's in the same boat as everyone else and there is nothing selfish about owning your own work and it can't be hypocrtical when you're in the same position as everyone else!

NouveauDance said:

galactus said:

He sort of implied that they couldn't afford all the high-priced lawyers that Prince can.

Not an isolated story.

galactus said:

I remember reading that Prince didn't get the Hendrix estate's permission to sample the drums of "Little Miss Lover" for "Tick, Tick, Bang" either. It's a shame. Prince would sue the pants off anyone who did that to him.

It was around this time/just after that the big sampling cases regarding 'U Can't Touch This' etc were happening, but I think Prince just slipped under the radar here in terms of timeframe.

More than timeframe - he used a much more obscure sample.

On a related subject, I heard Lyn Collins's "Think" this morning - and kept waiting for Rob Base to pop up.

I've met Angelo a few times. Did you ask him if he got Damon Wayans permission for the sample on "Swim"?

In my opinion it doesn't really matter. She's just saying a word, really.