Those problems existed in the music industry and society as a whole, long before Prince ever came along. So if you feel effed up, it's not because of Prince.

U are correct.......he did eff u up if your BRAIN doesn't work.

[Edited 9/30/11 8:55am]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

You don't have to like the topic, but if your going to reply ^ is the standard.

Don't attack the person.

eros said:

irreverence said:

Oh my god, what an odd thread.

How do you see effeminisation af black men?

1) Are they really?

2) How on earth has anything Prince has done have an effect on this?

How do you know he has an obsession with non black women, and not just women?

While I agree that mainstream culture is or has been obsessed with the white anglo saxon look in women, I fail to see Prince as a big influence on this, but I might be wrong.

But most of all I wonder why these exact two points are the ones you bring up???

(I'm not sure I want to read the answer, but they might be good, so I may not be all rhetorical)...

I can certainly understand how these may not be the easiest of concepts for the Rainbow Children to palate.....but I stand by my observations

Palate is not a verb.

[Edited 9/30/11 11:14am]

NiceNBreezy said:

Nevermind.

[Edited 9/30/11 11:31am]

Didn't want to get on this thread, but just need to say:

1. "Palette" isn't a verb either, so I don't know what you're saying, and "effeminization" is not a word either (you mean "emasculation"), and

2. Both this and the "Make Prince's Birthday a National Holiday" - get a grip people! He's just a frickin' musician! National holidays are for people like Ghandi & Martin Luther King Jr., and people who effed up the world are people are Hitler and Idi Amin. Get perspective.

Prince put the "eff" in funk, baby!!

hls2000 said:

eros said:

irreverence said:

Oh my god, what an odd thread.

How do you see effeminisation af black men?

1) Are they really?

2) How on earth has anything Prince has done have an effect on this?

How do you know he has an obsession with non black women, and not just women?

While I agree that mainstream culture is or has been obsessed with the white anglo saxon look in women, I fail to see Prince as a big influence on this, but I might be wrong.

But most of all I wonder why these exact two points are the ones you bring up???

(I'm not sure I want to read the answer, but they might be good, so I may not be all rhetorical)...

I can certainly understand how these may not be the easiest of concepts for the Rainbow Children to palate.....but I stand by my observations

English is not my first language, so I don't know what it means to palate. But I do resent your condescending tone. I am not making these comments because of my lack of intelligence! And don't count me as one of some group without knowing me.

And your socalled observations may be just that, but they don't count as arguments or clarifications or anything like that. I believe that you disprove your interest in your own post by your sarcastic remarks.

irreverence said:

irreverence said:

eros said:

irreverence said: I can certainly understand how these may not be the easiest of concepts for the Rainbow Children to palate.....but I stand by my observations

English is not my first language, so I don't know what it means to palate. But I do resent your condescending tone. I am not making these comments because of my lack of intelligence! And don't count me as one of some group without knowing me.

And your socalled observations may be just that, but they don't count as arguments or clarifications or anything like that. I believe that you disprove your interest in your own post by your sarcastic remarks.

Best to just walk away from this (as I am doing now). Don't palate anything on your way out!

Prince made everybody gay.

Jump in the the GD thread and take a pole of how many straight men are in there.

You'll find 80% are gay.

Hell, 60% of the org is gay. Before the week is over, this thread will be gay.

He's sort of like Midas that way.

NiceNBreezy said:

eros said:

Next..... The effeminization of the Black man

Prince wasn't the first back man in the industry with straight flowing hair. Ron O' Neal was in Superfly with long straight hair. There were black men with straight hair decades before that. Don't blame Prince.

MadamGoodnight said:

MadamGoodnight said:

Even if what you are saying is true, which it isn't, I still don't see how that "effed us all up" in anyway.

Seems more that you yourself have a major problem with him and you are looking for a way to vent.

Says a lot about you actually. Like that your actually talking about your own fanatic obsessions.

Not Prince's.

eros said:

MadamGoodnight said:

Prince wasn't the first back man in the industry with straight flowing hair. Ron O' Neal was in Superfly with long straight hair. There were black men with straight hair decades before that. Don't blame Prince.

I don't remember Ron O'Neal in Superfly donning a fully made up face, high heels, bikini underwear, thigh-high leggins, and posing like Edith Piaf.....but maybe I was in the restroom during that part of the film.

I remember some guy who calls himself Little Richard and that Prince greatly borrowed from his image.

Tremolina said:

Tremolina said:

Oh so just because he had more "exposure" than Little Richard, who had a lot too by the way, he needs to fit within your ideal views.

You said you grew up being a Prince fan. You mean that as a teenager you danced to Dirty Mind? Fantasised on Head and freaked out on Sister?

Tremolina said:

eros said:

Tremolina said:

Oh so just because he had more "exposure" than Little Richard, who had a lot too by the way, he needs to fit within your ideal views.

You said you grew up being a Prince fan. You mean that as a teenager you danced to Dirty Mind? Fantasised on Head and freaked out on Sister?

...those songs were being danced to way before my teenage years

who cares? did you or did you not?

I think your thread would have been better received if you would have said something like, “Reminiscing the past twenty years, it seems that Prince may not have had the best influence on me,” and then you could have explained why while contextualizing your individual issues or insights into a larger discussion of the circular relationship between art and societal values.

*

Having been a Prince fan since 1980, I can agree that Prince has aided in the larger American cultural emasculation of black men (aided not started). At the beginning of his career, Prince not only wanted to be “raceless” but also “genderless,” borrowing from the history of popular music, including Little Richard and David Bowie to name only two. And, yes, his choice of leading ladies has also perpetuated the marginalization of African American female beauty by having an African American man consistently choose a white or Latino female as his object of desire. This has been further perpetuated by having larger African American females as “background” singers (Bonnie Boyer, Rosie Gaines, Shelby J), which—to stretch a metaphor for a moment—extends and perpetuates the Mammy image of African American women, whereas the Mammy was a sexless nurturing or mothering figure. Finally, Prince was also pushing the sexuality explicit envelope, thus perpetuating the myth of the exotic or sexually aggressive often perverted African American male. So, I can see how someone who was a teenage and young adult fan of Prince could say that maybe being a Prince fan wasn’t the best type of influence for oneself.

*

However, the aspect or element that is missing from your discussion is the element of parenting. Not to offend anyone, but if someone outside the home is more influential on a child than the parents, then the parents have done a crappy job. Especially where art and artistic influence is concerned, the job of a parent is not to hide a child from certain aspects of art but to help the child navigate artistic influences with education through parental discussion. For instance, when I was eight, I said that Elvis Presley was the King of Rock-n-Roll. My father, whom I learned many years later was irate that his son would think such a thing, simply gave me some B. B. King, Ray Charles, and Little Richard records, some chronological information, and told me to listen at my leisure. While I continued to listen to and enjoy Elvis, I was sure he was not the king of anything. Thus, even though I was ten when I first became a fan of Prince’s music, I already knew who Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, and George Clinton were. As for his gender and racial hybridity, my parents discussed all of that whenever the issue was raised. So while Prince became and still is my favorite artist, I had my own set of values (not saying that they were better or more effective) that allowed me to analyze and measure what Prince was saying and doing to decide if some or anything he was proclaiming could be assimilated or amalgamated into my own way of seeing the world. Other than the music, what I loved most was his message of individuality. And I will admit that Prince’s message of individuality often clashed with my notions of Black Nationalism where all is supposed to be done for the good of the community. So even while I loved his music and his individualistic “eff” the world attitude, I was also extremely conscious of and bothered by what I perceived as his rejection of African beauty by perming his hair and his celebration of white female beauty. And even as I became an artist (writer) I would think about how to balance my desire for personal, self-expression and my desire to craft work that would aid in the struggle of African people. Yet, I knew, even as a college student, that this conflict was not because of Prince but more the natural progression of any young person trying to amalgamate varying ideologies into one philosophy.

*

Additionally, as a high school and college kid I liked that Prince seemed to be rebelling against traditional Christianity even though some of his lyrics plainly show that he held similar Judeo-Christian beliefs. However, now, as someone in his forties, I’m pretty cool with Prince’s desire to be less sexually explicit. In fact, I would consider it pathetic if Prince was writing songs like “Head” in his fifties. By now, shouldn’t one have had enough head so that one’s mind and art can focus on something more important or reflective? (And yes, I do still listen to and like “Head,” but now it is just a song with a catchy beat. And, sadly, being married as long as I’ve been married, oral sex is just a memory—much like the Ancient Egyptian Empire or the dinosaurs.) But, the truth is that young people expose themselves to all types of things that many of their parents tell them not to do. That is, for better and worse, the nature of being young. However, those who are lucky or blessed have some adult guidance that provides them knowledge and love to lessen their chances of doing something that will cause permanent harm or scarring. There are lots of things that I did and liked when I was young that I no longer do because when I was a child I thought as a child and acted as a child. Now, as a man, I hope to “put away” or “outgrow” childish things. (And I also admit that sometimes I do wonder if I am too old to visit and post at Prince.org.)

*

So while Prince was rebelling against certain norms as a part of his artistic and ideological expression (and as a way to earn a living), he was also perpetuating as many negative stereotypes as he was attempting to destroy. Yet, to use a phrase from Don King, if Prince didn’t exist, Madison Avenue would have invented him because he made a whole lot of people a whole lot of money, including himself. Little Richard and Jimi Hendrix were not popular just because of their music. They were also popular because they appealed to the cultural (racial and sexual) sensibilities and perversions of a lot of people—black and white. So, yes, it is natural for some people to review their past and say, “man, that wasn’t the smartest thing to do or follow.” But, like many have already said, Prince is just a man doing the best he can while navigating the same world and issues as all of us. If Prince has “effed up” any of us, that is more a statement about poor parenting and corporate greed than Prince. Thus, the real question is: Who is the bigger fool—the fool or the person who follows the fool? And while Prince can sometimes act the fool, he is not a fool nor is anyone for enjoying his music. My point is that parenting must trump outside influences and give children the necessary information and insights to make constructive choices rather than destructive choices. So, Prince as not “effed up” society, but I am willing to vote for poor parenting as the culprit.

Eloquently put, but still not explaining what exactly he did wrong. So he wanted to be himself and promote individuality, racial and gender equality, while also being a bit controversial about it, to make a buck. Is that so bad? So he usesd bigger African American back up singers, because they could actually sing but he was doing something wrong? You wanted to see Boni Boyer dance on Hot thing while Cat was doing the backing vocals? How about Sheila on drums? Too latin for your taste? Cora then? Doesn't respect her afro enough? IOW and not so eloquently put: that is all saying more about the OP than Prince.

[Edited 10/1/11 13:57pm]

eros said:

....and thanks by the way for your advice regarding how my post would have 'been better received' --but I'm cool with it. The negative responses that I got were reflections on the characters of those who made them--certainly not mine

No they were not reflections but reactions, to your opening post, which by all means, was negative, not positive.