imago said:

NelsonR said:

haters till trying to trash Prince based on speculation

Prince fills stadium, y'all fill toilets

If by toilet, you mean yo momma's vagina...then yes...yes we do!

OMG, being high school again is fun!

haters

LMMFAO!!!

I think everybody is kinda in the dark about the depth of the business aspects involved. Prince may own the name but does Warner Bros. have ownership or control elsewhere. Everybody jumped on Prince when it was rumored that he was tryin to mess with FDeluxe but soon after that whole story/ situation broke things got real quiet and we haven't heard anything since and they have some live shows in the works. Prince was a guest on Tavis Smiley a while back and stated that he was in the process of receiving full ownership of some of his masters because the contracts were expiring. He also said he was still attempting to track down money owed to him from Purple Rain and explained how Warner had made money overseas that never found it's way back to him. These things tell me that the business is kinda involved and sometimes complex and Prince is more in tune with his business these days. Before we criticize we need to hear both sides of the story and Tom Joyner is kinda janky, if ya ask me so i don't put much weight on shit he says. As for The Time and it's conception. Andre Cymone played a major role in the conceptualization of it, as far as wanting Morris' persona to mirror that of Kid Creole. Prince was about the music as well as the concept and Dez was a chief writer and player. The Time, as we know it, were hired musicians but proved to be more than that. They're great musicians, writers, arrangers and producers and don't need Prince's input to put out a viable product. The worst cuts on Pandemonium were the Prince cuts except for 'Jerk Out' and 'Data Bank'. Hopefully I have brought some clarity to this subject and I cite Dez's book and interviews with Andre Cymone as my sources.

I always thought Morris' character was based off Kid Creole's.

Timmy84 said:

I always thought Morris' character was based off Kid Creole's.

^-

-Everytime I think about Champagne and 'em, I think about how they hold alot of bullshit over Prince's head.

Timmy84 said:

I always thought Morris' character was based off Kid Creole's.

SoulAlive said:

I love how Jesse is not even bothering with looking at his watch. He knows what time it is.

rialb said:

SoulAlive said:

I love how Jesse is not even bothering with looking at his watch. He knows what time it is.

Jesse always had that "I know it" look anyway.

Sorry to get off topic here but has Morris Day had work done? Seems like in the group photo here on this thread perhaps he's gone under the knife?

SeventeenDayze said:

Sorry to get off topic here but has Morris Day had work done? Seems like in the group photo here on this thread perhaps he's gone under the knife?

Who knows? But I don't think you would be crazy in making that assumption looking at him nowadays. Or maybe he's aging real badly. Which I could think is the reason for how he looks now. His hard living lifestyle has caught up to him.

Timmy84 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Sorry to get off topic here but has Morris Day had work done? Seems like in the group photo here on this thread perhaps he's gone under the knife?

Who knows? But I don't think you would be crazy in making that assumption looking at him nowadays. Or maybe he's aging real badly. Which I could think is the reason for how he looks now. His hard living lifestyle has caught up to him.

Dumb question here but Morris had a "hard life" (i.e. drugs, etc?) I always thought he was relatively clean....interesting. I wonder if he gets tired of performing the same 6 songs that he's done since 1984....would drive me insane.

HonestMan13 said:

hhhhdmt said:

i agree that obviously the time should be allowed to perform and tour and do whatever they want to do. There is no doubt that he is wrong here- he is a hypocrite on covers and on this issue as well. I wonder if he realises his own contradictory statements. I'd love to see a reporter asking him "prince, you have covered other artists songs on your record, why do you have a problem with other artists covering yours?" and then see his reaction

You are aware that ever since the breakup of the originals after Graffiti Bridge that Morris Day has toured with an alternate line up of musicians under 'Morris Day & The Time'. They've played numerous cities and shows (most recently BB Kings in NYC in July). Unless using this alternate name included a stipulation that they could not record or perform new music under it then why not use it now to release the new music. Everyone who is a fan of theirs is already familiar with the 'Morris Day & The Time' moniker and wouldn't be too fazed by it. The only issue I could conceive of is that the other original who weren't a part of that touring line up don't want to be associated with the name out of foolish pride. Similar to the bashings they gave the stand-in members on Ice Cream Castles. The original line-up only did 2 albums before a major staff change and that was all of about 12 -14 tracks of material. Then came Ice Cream Castles which had their biggest hits of which most of the orignals had no association with whatsoever. Then came Pandemonium and that put them at about 26 to 28 tracks for a career spanning close to 30 years. If they really want to get new music out there then they should suck it up and do it however they have to.

Yup, that pretty much sums it all up. I saw Morris Day and the Time last year. Hmmm, just found out they'll be here again in the fall...think I'll go again!

Go back to the roots:

Flyte Tyme

SeventeenDayze said:

Timmy84 said:

Who knows? But I don't think you would be crazy in making that assumption looking at him nowadays. Or maybe he's aging real badly. Which I could think is the reason for how he looks now. His hard living lifestyle has caught up to him.

Dumb question here but Morris had a "hard life" (i.e. drugs, etc?) I always thought he was relatively clean....interesting. I wonder if he gets tired of performing the same 6 songs that he's done since 1984....would drive me insane.

According to some Prince historians, the "Pop Life" lyric where it was mentioned, "what you putting in your nose" was dedicated to Vanity and Morris.

V10LETBLUES said:

imago said:

I would imagine financially, they wouldn't care about it at all.

But, it doesn't appear it would be that important to Prince. I mean, he's not going to use "The Time" for any of his backing bands. He has that dreadful NPG moniker that he uses.

It just seems an awefully unhelpful gesture to 'old friends' for a 52 year old man whose found Jehova.

I think this may have more to do with the classic catalogs for some reason honestly. The "name" issue doesn't seem to make sense. I still think there is legal posturing behind the scenes regarding the original recordings, by both sides. That's where the long term value is. I think the "name" issue is a smokescreen.

And If that's the case, I don't blame Prince protecting his assets. That's his legacy more so than whoever he decided to prop up pretend to be the band of albums he had already recorded.

ExactLy! U took the words right out of my mouth. This has to do with the ownership of those masters. Prince is waiting to get full ownership of The Time masters. That is why he is stalling all of this. He stands to make a killing from all of it. The Time songs are all his creations. He wants all the earnings from the name The Time & the past music he created in that name. He knows if he allows The Time to use the name & release new music.. It would create an interest in The Time older catalog. If U really think about that. It makes sense.

Prince adding "Cool"(A kick ass version of it) to his current song line up in his w2a tour, for the past year. Plus he has performed "Jungle Love" & The Bird a lot in the past years. Speaks volumes & sends a big message. That it is his songs & legacy.....

Simple solution

"Morris Day and The Tyme"

Prince can't touch em!!

dandeeland said:

Simple solution

"Morris Day and The Tyme"

Prince can't touch em!!

^-

-'Morris Day and The Thyme.

-Peaches and Herb,

-Ashford and Simpson..

-Right! Check, please!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I think this may have more to do with the classic catalogs for some reason honestly. The "name" issue doesn't seem to make sense. I still think there is legal posturing behind the scenes regarding the original recordings, by both sides. That's where the long term value is. I think the "name" issue is a smokescreen.

And If that's the case, I don't blame Prince protecting his assets. That's his legacy more so than whoever he decided to prop up pretend to be the band of albums he had already recorded.

ExactLy! U took the words right out of my mouth. This has to do with the ownership of those masters. Prince is waiting to get full ownership of The Time masters. That is why he is stalling all of this. He stands to make a killing from all of it. The Time songs are all his creations. He wants all the earnings from the name The Time & the past music he created in that name. He knows if he allows The Time to use the name & release new music.. It would create an interest in The Time older catalog. If U really think about that. It makes sense.

Prince adding "Cool"(A kick ass version of it) to his current song line up in his w2a tour, for the past year. Plus he has performed "Jungle Love" & The Bird a lot in the past years. Speaks volumes & sends a big message. That it is his songs & legacy.....

I agree with what you all are saying

But Prince doesn't seem to have a problem with them performing the songs.

And at the award show a few years ago announcing the Time as the baddest band out there and they played those songs

And I thought Jungle Love & the Bird were Morris Day & Jesse Johnson recordings, with Prince, that's why they sound very different from most of the album??

The third album, [Ice Cream Castle], was released by Warner Bros. Records on 2nd July 1984. This record was in all essentials a collaboration effort between [Prince], [Morris Day] and [Jesse Johnson]. With the exception of The bird, which was a live recording by THE TIME from 4th October 1983, there was very little musical input by the other band members. The bird features [Morris Day] on lead vocals, [Jerome Benton] on percussion, [Jesse Johnson] on guitar, [Rocky Harris] on bass, [Jellybean Johnson] on drums and [Paul Peterson] and [Mark Cardenas] on keyboards. However, [Rocky Harris] were fired before scenes with THE TIME in the "Purple Rain" motion picture were shot, so on the album sleeve his replacement in the movie, [Jerry Hubbard], is listed as the bass player. Sharon Hughes sings background vocals on If the kid can't make you come and acts as [Morris Day]'s love interest on Chili sauce. The last song also features Novi Novog on violin.

"All jams by Morris Day, except 'Jungle love' written by Morris Day & Jesse Johnson" listed the songwriting credits on the album cover. However, Ice cream castles, Jungle love and The bird were registered as a collaboration by [Prince] (as Jamie Starr) with [Morris Day]. All other songs registered solely to [Prince] (as Jamie Starr). [Jesse Johnson] stated in an later interview, that he wrotes Jungle love and that he was removed from the credits when he decided to left THE TIME in June 1984. His claim is substantiated, because in May 1984, when the songs initially were registered to ASCAP, [Jesse Johnson] was listed together with [Prince] (as Jamie Starr) and [Morris Day] as co-writer of Jungle love and The bird, but his name was omitted in July 1984 by changing the songwriting credits on both songs.

SeventeenDayze said:

Timmy84 said:

Who knows? But I don't think you would be crazy in making that assumption looking at him nowadays. Or maybe he's aging real badly. Which I could think is the reason for how he looks now. His hard living lifestyle has caught up to him.

Dumb question here but Morris had a "hard life" (i.e. drugs, etc?) I always thought he was relatively clean....interesting. I wonder if he gets tired of performing the same 6 songs that he's done since 1984....would drive me insane.

They perform from The Time, What Time Is It, Ice Cream Castles Pandemonium + they do songs from Morris Day's album and I think Jesse's

new name fellas we know who u r!

OldFriends4Sale said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

ExactLy! U took the words right out of my mouth. This has to do with the ownership of those masters. Prince is waiting to get full ownership of The Time masters. That is why he is stalling all of this. He stands to make a killing from all of it. The Time songs are all his creations. He wants all the earnings from the name The Time & the past music he created in that name. He knows if he allows The Time to use the name & release new music.. It would create an interest in The Time older catalog. If U really think about that. It makes sense.

Prince adding "Cool"(A kick ass version of it) to his current song line up in his w2a tour, for the past year. Plus he has performed "Jungle Love" & The Bird a lot in the past years. Speaks volumes & sends a big message. That it is his songs & legacy.....

I agree with what you all are saying

But Prince doesn't seem to have a problem with them performing the songs.

And at the award show a few years ago announcing the Time as the baddest band out there and they played those songs

And I thought Jungle Love & the Bird were Morris Day & Jesse Johnson recordings, with Prince, that's why they sound very different from most of the album??

The third album, [Ice Cream Castle], was released by Warner Bros. Records on 2nd July 1984. This record was in all essentials a collaboration effort between [Prince], [Morris Day] and [Jesse Johnson]. With the exception of The bird, which was a live recording by THE TIME from 4th October 1983, there was very little musical input by the other band members. The bird features [Morris Day] on lead vocals, [Jerome Benton] on percussion, [Jesse Johnson] on guitar, [Rocky Harris] on bass, [Jellybean Johnson] on drums and [Paul Peterson] and [Mark Cardenas] on keyboards. However, [Rocky Harris] were fired before scenes with THE TIME in the "Purple Rain" motion picture were shot, so on the album sleeve his replacement in the movie, [Jerry Hubbard], is listed as the bass player. Sharon Hughes sings background vocals on If the kid can't make you come and acts as [Morris Day]'s love interest on Chili sauce. The last song also features Novi Novog on violin.

"All jams by Morris Day, except 'Jungle love' written by Morris Day & Jesse Johnson" listed the songwriting credits on the album cover. However, Ice cream castles, Jungle love and The bird were registered as a collaboration by [Prince] (as Jamie Starr) with [Morris Day]. All other songs registered solely to [Prince] (as Jamie Starr). [Jesse Johnson] stated in an later interview, that he wrotes Jungle love and that he was removed from the credits when he decided to left THE TIME in June 1984. His claim is substantiated, because in May 1984, when the songs initially were registered to ASCAP, [Jesse Johnson] was listed together with [Prince] (as Jamie Starr) and [Morris Day] as co-writer of Jungle love and The bird, but his name was omitted in July 1984 by changing the songwriting credits on both songs.

I think Prince has a problem when they are using the name The Time without him involved. Only exception is when he gave them permission to use it, when they played there reunion gig in Vegas.

The song "Jungle Love" does sound like a Jesse composition. It could have easily fit on one of his solo albums. I guess Prince feels once U cut ties with him. U give up everything 4 LIFE.

I still want to know, why The Time didn't end up opening 4 Prince, in his 21 nites gig earlier this summer here in LA? It sure was hinted by The Time that it was going to happen. Then boom nothing. Would like to be a fly on the wall, to hear what happen to make the negotiations fall apart.

#1 To those of you saying The Time can't find a record label that will release the new album, well, it's 2011... if you can't get a deal, you release it yourself! It's 2011. Self release, tour, keep all the profits.

#2 How about they just change their band name to an unpronounceable symbol to get out of their CONtract?

berniejobs said:

#1 To those of you saying The Time can't find a record label that will release the new album, well, it's 2011... if you can't get a deal, you release it yourself! It's 2011. Self release, tour, keep all the profits.

#2 How about they just change their band name to an unpronounceable symbol to get out of their CONtract?

Yeah I wonder why they haven't thought of self-releasing it?

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I wonder why they haven't thought of self-releasing it?

Lack of funds?

Even then: How much does a 50.000 release cost today?

$250.000?

That's 250 people that invest $1000, or 2500 that invest $100.

Very doable if you can mobilize enough people.

Timmy84 said:

berniejobs said:

#1 To those of you saying The Time can't find a record label that will release the new album, well, it's 2011... if you can't get a deal, you release it yourself! It's 2011. Self release, tour, keep all the profits.

#2 How about they just change their band name to an unpronounceable symbol to get out of their CONtract?

Yeah I wonder why they haven't thought of self-releasing it?

Jam said in interviews they may change the name and they have mentioned self releasing the record, plus several side projects as well. I doubt they will get a major label deal with a new name. For legacy acts, the name and history is a big part of the marketing. Yet if Prince signed over the naming rights to them, he may as well give them the rights to their back catalog as well because he would be unable to release it for a long time.

Stop kidding yourselves, it's not about "using" the name for this release, or the FDeluxe release. It's about control of the classic back-catalog/s. I really think they could give a shit about the new albums.

let's be serious here, the original "The Family" album bombed. There was no audience for the album on it's initial release even with Prince at his sales and artistic peak and the blatant knowledge that Prince was responsible for all of it. It still did not sell. WTF does their name matter now? What value does it have for the band on a new project with or without Prince?

While record buyers at the time passed on it, we fans know the album is fantastic, and we will buy their new album regardless of name out of sheer curiosity, we could care less what name they choose.

The original albums will have long term value because they are classics and can be marketed as such to a new audiences for a long time to come. This is not a play for the immediate release of any new album. This is part of a play for the rights to the classic recordings. To say anything else is either complete nonsense or complete B.S.

I wonder what happened...

I saw an interview last summer and Morris said "We talked to Prince and he is cool with it...he gave us his blessing..."

V10LETBLUES said:

Stop kidding yourselves, it's not about "using" the name for this release, or the FDeluxe release. It's about control of the classic back-catalog/s. I really think they could give a shit about the new albums.

let's be serious here, the original "The Family" album bombed. There was no audience for the album on it's initial release even with Prince at his sales and artistic peak and the blatant knowledge that Prince was responsible for all of it. It still did not sell. WTF does their name matter now? What value does it have for the band on a new project with or without Prince?

While record buyers at the time passed on it, we fans know the album is fantastic, and we will buy their new album regardless of name out of sheer curiosity, we could care less what name they choose.

The original albums will have long term value because they are classics and can be marketed as such to a new audiences for a long time to come. This is not a play for the immediate release of any new album. This is part of a play for the rights to the classic recordings. To say anything else is either complete nonsense or complete B.S.

Family didn't do well because the lead singer dropped not long after the album was release....right? by the time the family came out a lot of Prince stuff was sounding the same....

V10LETBLUES said:

Stop kidding yourselves, it's not about "using" the name for this release, or the FDeluxe release. It's about control of the classic back-catalog/s. I really think they could give a shit about the new albums.

let's be serious here, the original "The Family" album bombed. There was no audience for the album on it's initial release even with Prince at his sales and artistic peak and the blatant knowledge that Prince was responsible for all of it. It still did not sell. WTF does their name matter now? What value does it have for the band on a new project with or without Prince?

While record buyers at the time passed on it, we fans know the album is fantastic, and we will buy their new album regardless of name out of sheer curiosity, we could care less what name they choose.

The original albums will have long term value because they are classics and can be marketed as such to a new audiences for a long time to come. This is not a play for the immediate release of any new album. This is part of a play for the rights to the classic recordings. To say anything else is either complete nonsense or complete B.S.

I think you make a great point about the back catalog.

But to say that it is the only issue and that it has nothing to do with using the name(s) for new releases is just silly.

More likely there are many issues involved. And you have wisely pointed out one of, maybe even the biggest, issue.

But to discount all the other issues as having nothing to do with the situation sounds like B.S. to me.

Graycap23 said:

The Brothers from Minnesota really need 2 stop making excuses and release it.

me smells publicity stunt...

This is simply a control issue.Bottom line: Prince doesn't like the idea of these guys doing an album without his involvement.That's what it all boils down to.Imagine if the album does well and sells more copies than Prince's latest albums....you know he will get a major attitude Remember back in 1986 when there was all this talk about the Time reuniting for a new album,tour and movie? Prince was petrified of that happening! That's one reason why he fired The Revolution and decided to start over with a new band.Back then,an insider was quoted as saying "He knows that if the Time reunion thing happens,they're gonna come out smoking and he doesn't want to be caught with his pants down".

I would have thought that,after all this time,Prince wouldn't be dealing with those control/ego issues anymore but I guess some things will never change.