there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

JoeTyler said:

there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

mydrawers said:

JoeTyler said:

there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

that doesn't answer the OP question, does it?

JoeTyler said:

mydrawers said:

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

that doesn't answer the OP question, does it?

It doesn't, but it might be the better one to ask.

To address your question though: I suspect there's a clause in the contract demanding Prince's approval before Warner can alter the existing releases.

mydrawers said:

JoeTyler said:

there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

if they are remastered properly they can be improved on, especially in just the volume, without being brickwalled. if they get remastered and not to your liking dont buy them, but they really do need a bit of remastering

Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, and Purple Rain have already been remastered for vinyl reissues. There has been debate in other threads as to how they could do this. It's possible that something in Prince's contracts gives them the right to press new vinyl records but not new CDs. Or it's possible that Prince signed on to the vinyl reissues because it fits with his current anti-digital mindset, but he won't agree to digital remasters.

Incidentally, the current U.S. CD pressings of Prince's early albums have not changed since the original "Target" pressings made in West Germany and Japan circa 1983-85. I confirmed this by checking the peak levels:

http://www.stevehoffman.t...-p-18.html

No one really knows for sure what rights the parties have here unless they've seen the contracts. And I suspect no one who has seen those contracts is going to post anything about it here.

TwiliteKid said:

JoeTyler said:

that doesn't answer the OP question, does it?

It doesn't, but it might be the better one to ask.

To address your question though: I suspect there's a clause in the contract demanding Prince's approval before Warner can alter the existing releases.

I think Prince and Warner are arguing over that clause. All about control.

I think it has to do with the complex nature of the intellectual properties rights. They still belong to Prince, so he still has to approve of a re-release. That copy-right can be pawned to anyone else, he pawned them to WB for a period of 30 years (as I have understood).

Though the copy-right can be pawned but the actual (and final) say about a re-release cannot be taken away from the composer. It is and remains his/her personal right - this includes also a release of his song by another artist (covers).

Which leads to a catch-22: Prince has a right to stop WB from re-releasing his work (as remasters), WB has a right to stop Prince from releasing the remasters for the time the pawn of the intellectual properties of the masters lasts.

If my info is correct, Prince could release his remastered version of 'For You', 'Prince' and 'Dirty Mind' if he wants to. Of course he knows that is not commercially interesting and will not be until 2012 - when the pawn of 1999 ends or maybe even 2014...

And even then... the remastered albums will be available for free through the internet in less time than the time required by an apple to fall to the ground. Not to steal your thread, but I think this is the main reason why he is not keen about internet at the moment. He just sees his pot of gold shrinking with the possibility of free downloads of his remasters through torrent websites!

Hope this answers your question a bit

edit: the contractual clause may exist as well, but is not strictly necessary as intellectual properties rights are governed by international treaties to which the US is also a member.

[Edited 6/29/11 14:59pm]

There's always been a lot of talk on here about the supposed reversion of control back to Prince 35 years after each album was issued. But this could have been renegotiated at any point, either in the big contract that turned Prince into a "slave" in the 90s or subsequently. The various contracts may be vaguely worded and subject to different interpretations; thus, even if we had them it wouldn't tell us what exactly is going on in the negotiations. Prince's recent interview comments suggest that he has no plans to release digital remasters now or in the future, but we all know how he can change his mind about such things. After all, he told us that the Black Album was evil and we shouldn't buy it, but then it got released anyway.

electricberet said:

There's always been a lot of talk on here about the supposed reversion of control back to Prince 35 years after each album was issued. But this could have been renegotiated at any point, either in the big contract that turned Prince into a "slave" in the 90s or subsequently. The various contracts may be vaguely worded and subject to different interpretations; thus, even if we had them it wouldn't tell us what exactly is going on in the negotiations. Prince's recent interview comments suggest that he has no plans to release digital remasters now or in the future, but we all know how he can change his mind about such things. After all, he told us that the Black Album was evil and we shouldn't buy it, but then it got released anyway.

That was supposedly 2 get out of his contract.

mydrawers said:

JoeTyler said:

there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

...No, so you can hear all the instruments crisply and all those little subtle nuances in the background.

I'd love to see remasters happen but I think we'll be waiting a longggg time for that.

armpit said:

mydrawers said:

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

...No, so you can hear all the instruments crisply and all those little subtle nuances in the background.

I'd love to see remasters happen but I think we'll be waiting a longggg time for that.

If u grab the recently released vinyls, you can hear those. They sound wonderful!

daPrettyman said:

electricberet said:

There's always been a lot of talk on here about the supposed reversion of control back to Prince 35 years after each album was issued. But this could have been renegotiated at any point, either in the big contract that turned Prince into a "slave" in the 90s or subsequently. The various contracts may be vaguely worded and subject to different interpretations; thus, even if we had them it wouldn't tell us what exactly is going on in the negotiations. Prince's recent interview comments suggest that he has no plans to release digital remasters now or in the future, but we all know how he can change his mind about such things. After all, he told us that the Black Album was evil and we shouldn't buy it, but then it got released anyway.

That was supposedly 2 get out of his contract.

I have read that, but I've also read that it was unrelated to the contractual obligation, but WB gave him a $1 million check to release it. Either way, when Prince is faced with a choice between cash and principles, he will choose the cash if there's enough of it.

TwiliteKid said:

JoeTyler said:

that doesn't answer the OP question, does it?

It doesn't, but it might be the better one to ask.

To address your question though: I suspect there's a clause in the contract demanding Prince's approval before Warner can alter the existing releases.

Well, we can only wait and see.

JoeTyler said:

mydrawers said:

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

that doesn't answer the OP question, does it?

Actually, it does: AGAIN, they have not been remastered because they don't NEED to be remastered.

Prince has already stated that negotiations over remixes/remasters/rereleases have been dragging on due to the constant management shakeups at Warner. Unless things settle down with the new owners nothing is going to happen.

jpnyc said:

Prince has already stated that negotiations over remixes/remasters/rereleases have been dragging on due to the constant management shakeups at Warner. Unless things settle down with the new owners nothing is going to happen.

Either party to a negotiation is always going to blame the other for the failure to make a deal. Prince is obviously living in a fantasy world in any event, so I wouldn't put any stock in anything he says.

JoeTyler said:

there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

There's the multitrack tapes Prince owns, and the finished mix tapes Warners has when they want to put a "best of" out.

They'd prob. take a check from Prince to give him the rights to his tapes now, they're making their money in Harry Potter and Twilight franchises .

I think Purple Rain is going to get a Deluxe Edition treatment because it was edited down to fit vinyl. It's probably not the album Prince envisioned to put out. But it should've been done in 2004 when they did the DVD special edition.

Remastering costs a lot of money (and a lot of time), especially if it is done by competent people, like with The Beatles & Genesis albums. Maybe Warners doesn't think most of Prince's albums will sell enough to justify the expense. Look at other Warner Brothers' acts like Madonna & Van Halen. Only a few of their early albums were remastered. The Beatles have guaranteed sales, Prince does not. If you go to the average record store, The Beatles albums are always kept in stock. With Prince, it's generally 1999, Purple Rain, and maybe The Best Of Prince.

If I'm not mistaken, Prince owns the publishing rights to his music, and Warner Bros. owns the masters; and if I'm still not mistaken, that means Warner Bros. only owns the recordings, not the rights to release those recordings (publishing).

Labels typically own the masters, and can do anything they want with them - reissue them, burn them, whatever.

Reissue projects are a dime a dozen, and can involve simple clean ups, or licensing to sublabels. This typically happens with out of print work, or boxsets where you can add bonus material.

Remastering involves literally restoring and remixing the recording from the original tapes. They recreate the records again in the studio. The labels employ a very select trusted group of engineers to do this kind of work, and the projects are labor intensive. Most of the time they do improve the recordings and error on the side of conservation. If there's a missing or damaged track, or Prince sent off mix downs, it would prevent them from doing it.

The recording artist can't really stop this unless there are limitations written into the contract. Typically the labels negotiate some new terms, since most older artists got screwed to begin with, but the only power the artist has in bargaining is their own support, and availability to promote

JoeTyler said:

there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

WB can (and just did on vinyl with a few albums) remaster the original masters but that wouldn't do much. They can't remaster the original pre-master tapes not because they're not allowed to but because THEY DON'T HAVE THEM. Prince has the pre-master tapes and therefore only Prince can do proper remasters. Simple as that.

Next?

I wouldn't hold your breath:

"I personally can't stand digital music," he said. "You're getting sound in bits. It affects a different place in your brain. When you play it back, you can't feel anything. We're analogue people, not digital."

Prince - June 2011

electricberet said:

jpnyc said:

Prince has already stated that negotiations over remixes/remasters/rereleases have been dragging on due to the constant management shakeups at Warner. Unless things settle down with the new owners nothing is going to happen.

Either party to a negotiation is always going to blame the other for the failure to make a deal. Prince is obviously living in a fantasy world in any event, so I wouldn't put any stock in anything he says.

Right, it's not just the management structure of WB, it's Prince's reaction to that management structure. Obviously it must be a pain in the arse every time you meet with them it's a new set of suits, it makes it hard to build a rapport - but something tells me Prince isn't exactly the most amiable person in this situation any way.

I'm sure Warners would love to have dropped a 20th anniversary special edition of _____ X album - it's Prince who's not giving the go ahead. I don't think his reasons are unjust, but I don't think it's a priority for him.

I would imagine that agreements between Prince and Warner grew more complex in the early 90s and even more complex when they agreed to split with each other.

I imagine Prince thought, somewhat, like this:

This isn't what happened of course, but just to illustrate, that Prince has had plenty of options to renegotiate through out his career and he has probably had plenty of motives for various choices, plus I bet he (along with most) really thought that Purple Rain et al. was in the past and he would go on to produce better works in the future - something I'm sure could motivate a certain carelessness towards his rights to certain key-albums. I don't think he necessarily signed off his rights to his albums because of greed at all, but maybe the naive overestimating of his ability to "just" make another Purple Rain (like, erhm, The Gold Experience).

Anyway, in the end: no one knows for sure what Warner and Prince has agreed to. Bets are, that Warners care mostly about 1999 up until SotT, and none of us know if the counting of the 30 years wait starts in the year the albums were released or the year Prince re-signed to Warners or the year he left.

So to answer: It is obvious, that what ever happens to the music of Prince from the 80s, both parties have the ability to veto the other, and Prince probably already has done so.

[Edited 6/30/11 3:21am]

Thanks for the info

bleak scenario, anyway; something tells me that Prince IS the one to blame...

Prince has declared clearly that he does not want anymore recording new & old albums ...if his deeper wish was to release the remasters...so ..the game would have already begun since few years back...End of the game & talkings....Prince is only interrested by the stage now! Shame!....Prince is an half of an artist now!

He might have the right of refusal with them, I recall the extended version of Sexy Dancer was wropped from Ultimate because he did not want it on there. That information may be wrong though, because I read it on this forum.

GoldiesParade said:

He might have the right of refusal with them, I recall the extended version of Sexy Dancer was wropped from Ultimate because he did not want it on there. That information may be wrong though, because I read it on this forum.

Erotic City, IIRC.

mydrawers said:

JoeTyler said:

there's a thing that I don't understand. Prince doesn't have the rights of the music he released with Warners, right? The rights belong to Warners. Then, what the hell is Warners waiting for? Where are the remasters?

for those who have Spotify, you'll find that there are the 78-93 albums, including Come and The Vault... that's definitely Warners' doing...

can someone explain this to me?? Thanks

can we dream about Purple Rain 84-14 30th Anniversary Edition??

Those CD's sound fine the way they are. They don't NEED remastering. Why? So they can be loud and brickwalled like the way CD's are mastered today?? No thanks.

They seriously need remastering. Remastering is a lot more than loudness. The Beatles remasters are not loud, not brickwalled and they sound absolutely lush and amazing. Most of mastering involves EQ and the art of balancing frequencies. The original mix might sound fantastic on the stunning monitoring you would find in a nice studio, but it takes some work to make that translate onto the kind of system most people would have in the homes/cars. You are 100% incorrect. Hopefully I've expanded your rather limited palate of information regarding the recording process.