electricberet said:

JudasLChrist said:

[Snip - luv4u]

I wondered how long it would take for Prince's crazy nonsense to spark an ugly argument over Islam. Take it over to Politics & Religion, please. Prince just happened to use this example of why he likes social control. If he had given a concert in Beijing he would probably be using the People's Republic as his example of utopia. Whatever passes through his crazy brain at the moment.

And it would be equally upsetting. Prince's tendency towards religious conservatism gets creepier and creepier every year.

PurpleLove7 said:

Shorty said:

the article is not as bad as people are making it out to be.

I agree Shorty, I'm Sunni Muslim, African American (Black) and I don't see anything in the article (just read the full article 30 min. ago)(don't like the 'no new album' part tho). I'm happy to see my man Xtra P talking about Al Islaam. A lot of people don't realize that in the Arabic speaking countries a lot of what's going on is 'cultural' not Islaamic. Yes, woman are to cover up but, it guards their chastity by doing so. I'll leave it at that.

People believe what they want with that Terrorist Religion , don't they (tongue in cheek comment).

laurarichardson said:

NouveauDance said:

That is probably the most pathetic and disheartening thing I've ever read from Prince.

What a fucking cretin.

While I do not agree with the tenets of Islam millions of people are practicing Muslims. If Prince agrees with one of the core beliefs that does not make him or those millions of people cretins. Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please. As far as Prince being for the submission of woman I guess you have not been listening to his music over the last 30 odd years. He always came off as a knuckle dragging type of guy. I think he is the last guy that would be at a woman’s equality rally.

In the west people have freedom of Religion. A consequence of this is that religion is accountable to the values of our secular society. If say, a muslim wants to perform a genital castration on his daughter, the larger secular society would realize that this is barbaric and would make moves to protect the daughter from her father. The price of freedom of religion is that religion does not get to dicate against the rights of an individual. Jus because millions of Muslims are practicing doesn't mean that theocratic muslim regimes are just. Distaste for theocracy is a given for people who care about democracy and autonomy for the individual.

laurarichardson said:

NouveauDance said:

That is probably the most pathetic and disheartening thing I've ever read from Prince.

What a fucking cretin.

While I do not agree with the tenets of Islam millions of people are practicing Muslims. If Prince agrees with one of the core beliefs that does not make him or those millions of people cretins. Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please. As far as Prince being for the submission of woman I guess you have not been listening to his music over the last 30 odd years. He always came off as a knuckle dragging type of guy. I think he is the last guy that would be at a woman’s equality rally.

The point is he does NOT know what the fuck he is talking about. The burqa is NOT one of the core beliefs of Islam. In fact nowhere in the CORE scripture of Islam does it instruct women to cover their face (as the burqa does). His comments on Islam reflect gross ignorance about the religion, Muslim societies, and countries that claim to adhere to Islamic law. A tourist trip to Egypt (to "study") while staying at the Ritz Carlton, or a million dollar gig in Abu Dhabi (considered by many one of the "Vegases" of the Middle East) does not qualify.

It demonstrates his ongoing search for "theocratic order" and naive romanticization of what an authoritarian dictatorship can produce by way of social controls.

Good to see the press is only picking up on him not recording anymore and not the Islamic comment

Prince to 'Hold Off on Recording' Until Piracy Is Controlled

[Edited 6/24/11 12:45pm]

JudasLChrist said:

laurarichardson said:

While I do not agree with the tenets of Islam millions of people are practicing Muslims. If Prince agrees with one of the core beliefs that does not make him or those millions of people cretins. Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please. As far as Prince being for the submission of woman I guess you have not been listening to his music over the last 30 odd years. He always came off as a knuckle dragging type of guy. I think he is the last guy that would be at a woman’s equality rally.

In the west people have freedom of Religion. A consequence of this is that religion is accountable to the values of our secular society. If say, a muslim wants to perform a genital castration on his daughter, the larger secular society would realize that this is barbaric and would make moves to protect the daughter from her father. The price of freedom of religion is that religion does not get to dicate against the rights of an individual. Jus because millions of Muslims are practicing doesn't mean that theocratic muslim regimes are just. Distaste for theocracy is a given for people who care about democracy and autonomy for the individual.

and who exacty supports these dictarorships? If the west gave a damn about democracy, they would not have supported Saddam or Mubarak or other muderous dictators. If you believe that people over there like having dictarors, you are living in fools paradise. Those dictators rule the middle east, largely with the help of american government and other western governments. So much for West's love of freedom and democracy.

Prince: "After 75 you don't know where you are – somebody had to drag me

to the stage. I'm not going! Yes you are!

It was bloody back then. I won't say why but there was blood on me."

^^ Who's blood do you think was on him? and WHY?

I have a few ideas...

NuPwrSoul said:

laurarichardson said:

While I do not agree with the tenets of Islam millions of people are practicing Muslims. If Prince agrees with one of the core beliefs that does not make him or those millions of people cretins. Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please. As far as Prince being for the submission of woman I guess you have not been listening to his music over the last 30 odd years. He always came off as a knuckle dragging type of guy. I think he is the last guy that would be at a woman’s equality rally.

The point is he does NOT know what the fuck he is talking about. The burqa is NOT one of the core beliefs of Islam. In fact nowhere in the CORE scripture of Islam does it instruct women to cover their face (as the burqa does). His comments on Islam reflect gross ignorance about the religion, Muslim societies, and countries that claim to adhere to Islamic law. A tourist trip to Egypt (to "study") while staying at the Ritz Carlton, or a million dollar gig in Abu Dhabi (considered by many one of the "Vegases" of the Middle East) does not qualify.

It demonstrates his ongoing search for "theocratic order" and naive romanticization of what an authoritarian dictatorship can produce by way of social controls.

21 pages ... DAMN ya'LL ...

laurarichardson said:

Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please.

I think the point is that in a lot of Muslim countries, people DON'T have the freedom to worship as they please.

You really aren't that mental, are you?

errant said:

laurarichardson said:

Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please.

I think the point is that in a lot of Muslim countries, people DON'T have the freedom to worship as they please.

You really aren't that mental, are you?

what is the specefic number though? I know saudi arabia is one, but there are plenty of others. which specefic ones are you refering too?

2elijah said:

PurpleLove7 said:

That's my point linus, it's the LAW in some Arabic speaking countries, which is Shar'iah. I was raised in Al Islaam and I am Muslim ...

I was just reading an article, which pointed out that when female foreigners visit some countries with specific, Islamic laws, that they have to adhere to the dress code. I see it more as a "cultural" thing as well as religious.

[Edited 6/24/11 12:27pm]

If they have to, it's not a cultural thing anymore. It's the law with zero tolerance in a lot of the muslimic countries.

hhhhdmt said:

JudasLChrist said:

In the west people have freedom of Religion. A consequence of this is that religion is accountable to the values of our secular society. If say, a muslim wants to perform a genital castration on his daughter, the larger secular society would realize that this is barbaric and would make moves to protect the daughter from her father. The price of freedom of religion is that religion does not get to dicate against the rights of an individual. Jus because millions of Muslims are practicing doesn't mean that theocratic muslim regimes are just. Distaste for theocracy is a given for people who care about democracy and autonomy for the individual.

and who exacty supports these dictarorships? If the west gave a damn about democracy, they would not have supported Saddam or Mubarak or other muderous dictators. If you believe that people over there like having dictarors, you are living in fools paradise. Those dictators rule the middle east, largely with the help of american government and other western governments. So much for West's love of freedom and democracy.

My statement was not about any country's foreign policy. It was to point out that Muslim countries and Islam itself is not beyond critique.

http://www.drfunkenberry.com/

Another version of the same interview by a different paper via the Doc.

electricberet said:

JudasLChrist said:

How about not bringing yr stupid sectarian feud onto The Org, eh? Death to yr prophet and Islamic stupidity everywhere.

I wondered how long it would take for Prince's crazy nonsense to spark an ugly argument over Islam. Take it over to Politics & Religion, please. Prince just happened to use this example of why he likes social control. If he had given a concert in Beijing he would probably be using the People's Republic as his example of utopia. Whatever passes through his crazy brain at the moment.

That was always coming, sadly...... Prince's ignorance has rightly come in for criticism on this thread, but when some of those criticising it are quite happy to parade their own ignorance in the process, it becomes ironic at best, hypocritical at worst.

I'll reiterate what I said earlier in the thread, for the benefit of those who came late to the party:

There are a whole bunch of things one can say about Prince's comments on choice and the burqa. Firstly, there are huge differences between different countries in the so-called 'Muslim world'. In countries like Egypt and Syria, the 'burqa' (people usually mean the niqab) or 'full veil' was actually banned, either across the board or in universities and such institutions, by secular governments seeking to quell the rise of religious fundamentalism. Secondly, where there are such measures being imposed, or shifts towards that, there's massive, vociferous opposition to it from human rights groups, women's groups, people who want to preserve secular freedoms, etc, even though those people would consider themselves Muslims and want to keep practicing their religion. Thirdly, in terms of dictatorships in that region, some of which have been known to use similar rhetoric about order, about religion, etc, to justify preserving the status quo they benefit from, we're living at a time when opposition to that is as strong as its ever been. In Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Syria, etc, there have been well-publicised uprisings against authoritarian regimes (some of which are in fact secular though still tyrannical), which don't seem to have found their way to the TVs at Paisley Park.

He's peddling the same bunch of hoary old stereotypes usually drudged up by those who want to invade countries in that region to gain control of oil assets (as well as the unworldly cheerleaders that buy into what they're saying), with the only difference being that he's holding those images up as something good. The right response to this, I think, is not to start talking like a neocon but to look deeper than inherited and media-bolstered stereotypes about a homogenous mass of scary people with a barbaric culture, and look at what actually goes on in that part of the world, and how people that live there don't find the myths about order under tyranny, or chauvinism as religion, anywhere near as comforting as he does.

ludwig said:

2elijah said:

I was just reading an article, which pointed out that when female foreigners visit some countries with specific, Islamic laws, that they have to adhere to the dress code. I see it more as a "cultural" thing as well as religious.

[Edited 6/24/11 12:27pm]

If they have to, it's not a cultural thing anymore. It's the law with zero tolerance in a lot of the muslimic countries.

Good point ...

muleFunk said:

http://www.drfunkenberry.com/

Another version of the same interview by a different paper via the Doc.

I just knew that the good Doctor Dingleberry had been practicing flexing his throat muscles so that eventually Prince could get his whole balls and taint crammed down there one day too.

ludwig said:

2elijah said:

I was just reading an article, which pointed out that when female foreigners visit some countries with specific, Islamic laws, that they have to adhere to the dress code. I see it more as a "cultural" thing as well as religious.

[Edited 6/24/11 12:27pm]

If they have to, it's not a cultural thing anymore. It's the law with zero tolerance in a lot of the muslimic countries.

(Bolded part) Thanks for correcting that - yes if foreigners "have to" adhere to the dress code required by countries under Islamic law, then yes, apparently it's based on their laws. Thanks for correcting that.

[Edited 6/24/11 13:15pm]

laurarichardson said:

NouveauDance said:

That is probably the most pathetic and disheartening thing I've ever read from Prince.

What a fucking cretin.

While I do not agree with the tenets of Islam millions of people are practicing Muslims. If Prince agrees with one of the core beliefs that does not make him or those millions of people cretins. Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please. As far as Prince being for the submission of woman I guess you have not been listening to his music over the last 30 odd years. He always came off as a knuckle dragging type of guy. I think he is the last guy that would be at a woman’s equality rally.

There's something commendable about the sentiment behind what you're saying (trying to make people empathise with and imagine things from the perspective of another group of people, etc), but the burqa isn't a core belief. And, as I mentioned above, it's something rejected and even banned in many of the Muslim countries people are talking about, and opposed by the majority of Muslims around the world.

muleFunk said:

http://www.drfunkenberry.com/

Another version of the same interview by a different paper via the Doc.

I'll post it for you..

2 Sides 2 Every Story When It Comes 2 Prince

www.drfunkenberry.com

So, Prince is getting ready to embark on a European tour that actually kicks off with dates in Canada this weekend. For the European tour, Prince did 3 interviews we are told. 2 of them at the same time. 1 was with the Guardian and Le Parisian both interviewing him at the same time.

The Guardian had quoted Prince...or mis-quoted....as it did not go into detail of what his answer or answers were. Since Prince does not allow recording devices, this does some times happen. We are running what the Le Parisian wrote as it is more detailed and has more length to Prince's answers to the questions he was asked;

We almost fainted when he heard on the phone: "It's for tomorrow. Get ready. "A few days before his unique concert at Stade de France on June 30, Prince is visiting Paris. And he wanted to talk. The incredible news - we have not slept all night - will be confirmed: "Be there at 19.00 hours.(7pm)

Not allowed to record anything. If he likes you, you have time. "Go to a selected restaurant near the Champs-Elysees. Feverish, we are led into an empty room upstairs. An hour passes. Suddenly, Prince appears. Alone, without bodyguards or entourage. Smiling, all in black, a silver chain around his neck, he tends a firm handshake, apologizes for being late, asks "How are you? "And" What's there fun to do tonight in Paris? "Sits on the bench, ordering a green tea," Go, discussions. "

You played at the Zenith, Bercy, the Parc des Princes. Stade de France ... is the missing one from your list of conquests?

Prince. The thing is, I have a group of incredible quality. It's like a basketball all star team: each one is a champion in their field. When we play together, there is such an overflow of energy it takes at least a stadium/stage to greet it.

What will the show look like on 30th June?

"There will be many surprises. What I can tell you is that by playing in New York and Los Angeles it resulted in a very controlled show. This stage is at the end."

We know that you rehearse a lot. How do you work with your group?
"I love being a tyrant (smile). But with love. I ask from them a very high level of excellence, but they are also perfectionists."

What do you remember of the 1980's?

"Michael (Editor's note: Jackson) and I appeared at a time when there was nothing. On MTV, there was nothing. People dressed like they were going to the supermarket. We were the exceptions."

Are you nostalgic for that time?

"Sometimes yes. Sometimes I see the shirts/clothes that I was wearing. But musically, no. I play more guitar, I sing better, I am a better arranger."

Are you working on a new album?
"I no longer records songs. I do not want to record as long as the crisis in the music industry will not be resolved. No one earns money. I'll go to the White House to discuss with the government the issues on copyright. It's the Wild West. Everything must be clean."

But you had been one of the first artists to use the Internet ...
"Yes, but at that time, we made money."

You very early on went to war against the record companies ...
"A record company boss told me, straight in the eye: "But, Prince, you do still believe that our goal is to make you earn money? "I was accused of distributing my album" Planet Earth "with an English newspaper, but it allowed me to reach 2 million people. I fought for control over my records. From there, no one dictated to me what I should do."

Is it true that you have hundreds of songs in your files?
"That's true. I listen to some of them with my band and they give me feedback on them."

What do you do between concerts/shows/gigs?
"I study. I learn. I like to talk to people. In all the countries I go to, I meet the people. For example I'm going back to/returning to Morocco. I really like the Muslim culture. I don't understand what people have against veiled women/women in bhurkhas. How can you stop people dressing how/the way they want to?"

The people you meet are they very intimidated by you?
"No, I am very easy to access. Here, for example, do you feel uncomfortable with me? No! Celebrity means nothing in reality, we are all the same."

When you are in Paris, what do you do?
"I go out at night. During the day I can not. The days when I could still walk the streets without being harassed by the paparazzi are long gone."

It seems/would appear you don't like your songs being covered?
"First of all it's lazy. Then/secondly its as if you've erased/ruined/wiped out the original version. This only happens only in music. Can you imagine if everybody did their own version of the Harry Potter film or book? Do you want to hear somebody else singing 'Kiss'? Not me."

You don't have any wrinkles (you haven't aged a bit), what's your secret?

"Time is a spiritual thing (you're as young as you feel). God doesn't count the passing years. He doesn't have any date of birth in the Bible. I don't celebrate my birthdays any more. If you stay active, if you learn new things (keep learning), if you travel, then you stay young."

2 interviews. Done at the same time. Yet, one has more fuller answers and more attention to detail. Very interesting. Was there an agenda? I rather Prince talk about music and performances all day long. It's like watching Michael Jordan. I care about his skills on the court. Could care less that he loves McDonalds and wears Hanes underwear. Calvin Kleins are softer Michael, just for the record.

So what do you all think happened here? I am glad there was some clarification and not just sound bites.-Dr.FB

[Edited 6/24/11 16:51pm]

--

[Edited 6/24/11 13:20pm]

deebee said:

electricberet said:

I wondered how long it would take for Prince's crazy nonsense to spark an ugly argument over Islam. Take it over to Politics & Religion, please. Prince just happened to use this example of why he likes social control. If he had given a concert in Beijing he would probably be using the People's Republic as his example of utopia. Whatever passes through his crazy brain at the moment.

That was always coming, sadly...... Prince's ignorance has rightly come in for criticism on this thread, but when some of those criticising it are quite happy to parade their own ignorance in the process, it becomes ironic at best, hypocritical at worst.

I'll reiterate what I said earlier in the thread, for the benefit of those who came late to the party:

There are a whole bunch of things one can say about Prince's comments on choice and the burqa. Firstly, there are huge differences between different countries in the so-called 'Muslim world'. In countries like Egypt and Syria, the 'burqa' (people usually mean the niqab) or 'full veil' was actually banned, either across the board or in universities and such institutions, by secular governments seeking to quell the rise of religious fundamentalism. Secondly, where there are such measures being imposed, or shifts towards that, there's massive, vociferous opposition to it from human rights groups, women's groups, people who want to preserve secular freedoms, etc, even though those people would consider themselves Muslims and want to keep practicing their religion. Thirdly, in terms of dictatorships in that region, some of which have been known to use similar rhetoric about order, about religion, etc, to justify preserving the status quo they benefit from, we're living at a time when opposition to that is as strong as its ever been. In Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Syria, etc, there have been well-publicised uprisings against authoritarian regimes (some of which are in fact secular though still tyrannical), which don't seem to have found their way to the TVs at Paisley Park.

He's peddling the same bunch of hoary old stereotypes usually drudged up by those who want to invade countries in that region to gain control of oil assets (as well as the unworldly cheerleaders that buy into what they're saying), with the only difference being that he's holding those images up as something good. The right response to this, I think, is not to start talking like a neocon but to look deeper than inherited and media-bolstered stereotypes about a homogenous mass of scary people with a barbaric culture, and look at what actually goes on in that part of the world, and how people that live there don't find the myths about order under tyranny, or chauvinism as religion, anywhere near as comforting as he does.

Bullshit, I think Islam is dangerous. Westerners don't often get this, cause our religious crazys aren't as nearly as batshit crazy as they are in Iran and North Africa, etc...but it is the truth.

JudasLChrist said:

deebee said:

That was always coming, sadly...... Prince's ignorance has rightly come in for criticism on this thread, but when some of those criticising it are quite happy to parade their own ignorance in the process, it becomes ironic at best, hypocritical at worst.

I'll reiterate what I said earlier in the thread, for the benefit of those who came late to the party:

There are a whole bunch of things one can say about Prince's comments on choice and the burqa. Firstly, there are huge differences between different countries in the so-called 'Muslim world'. In countries like Egypt and Syria, the 'burqa' (people usually mean the niqab) or 'full veil' was actually banned, either across the board or in universities and such institutions, by secular governments seeking to quell the rise of religious fundamentalism. Secondly, where there are such measures being imposed, or shifts towards that, there's massive, vociferous opposition to it from human rights groups, women's groups, people who want to preserve secular freedoms, etc, even though those people would consider themselves Muslims and want to keep practicing their religion. Thirdly, in terms of dictatorships in that region, some of which have been known to use similar rhetoric about order, about religion, etc, to justify preserving the status quo they benefit from, we're living at a time when opposition to that is as strong as its ever been. In Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Syria, etc, there have been well-publicised uprisings against authoritarian regimes (some of which are in fact secular though still tyrannical), which don't seem to have found their way to the TVs at Paisley Park.

He's peddling the same bunch of hoary old stereotypes usually drudged up by those who want to invade countries in that region to gain control of oil assets (as well as the unworldly cheerleaders that buy into what they're saying), with the only difference being that he's holding those images up as something good. The right response to this, I think, is not to start talking like a neocon but to look deeper than inherited and media-bolstered stereotypes about a homogenous mass of scary people with a barbaric culture, and look at what actually goes on in that part of the world, and how people that live there don't find the myths about order under tyranny, or chauvinism as religion, anywhere near as comforting as he does.

Bullshit, I think Islam is dangerous. Westerners don't often get this, cause our religious crazys aren't as nearly as batshit crazy as they are in Iran and North Africa, etc...but it is the truth.

sorry, but your post is bullshit, and you are just another brainwashed westerner who will believe anything you are told. These wars (particularly the one in Iraq) are mainly about oil and religon is just an excuse to invade these countries for resources.

errant said:

muleFunk said:

http://www.drfunkenberry.com/

Another version of the same interview by a different paper via the Doc.

I just knew that the good Doctor Dingleberry had been practicing flexing his throat muscles so that eventually Prince could get his whole balls and taint crammed down there one day too.

What do you do between concerts/shows/gigs? "I study. I learn. I like to talk to people. In all the countries I go to, I meet the people. For example I'm going back to/returning to Morocco. I really like the Muslim culture. I don't understand what people have against veiled women/women in bhurkhas. How can you stop people dressing how/the way they want to?"

I think this is actually worse (more offensive) than the original Guardian quote.

My man's gonna turn around (end up) and do a Cat Stevens ... LoL

deebee said:

laurarichardson said:

While I do not agree with the tenets of Islam millions of people are practicing Muslims. If Prince agrees with one of the core beliefs that does not make him or those millions of people cretins. Some of you guys need to get off of this hating of religion and realize people have the freedom to worship as they please. As far as Prince being for the submission of woman I guess you have not been listening to his music over the last 30 odd years. He always came off as a knuckle dragging type of guy. I think he is the last guy that would be at a woman’s equality rally.

There's something commendable about the sentiment behind what you're saying (trying to make people empathise with and imagine things from the perspective of another group of people, etc), but the burqa isn't a core belief. And, as I mentioned above, it's something rejected and even banned in many of the Muslim countries people are talking about, and opposed by the majority of Muslims around the world.

Efan said:

What do you do between concerts/shows/gigs? "I study. I learn. I like to talk to people. In all the countries I go to, I meet the people. For example I'm going back to/returning to Morocco. I really like the Muslim culture. I don't understand what people have against veiled women/women in bhurkhas. How can you stop people dressing how/the way they want to?"

I think this is actually worse (more offensive) than the original Guardian quote.

No this just makes him look more crazy. I doubt he even believes what comes out of his mouth. Yeah he really met some Muslims. RIGHT.

Timmy84 said:

Efan said:

I think this is actually worse (more offensive) than the original Guardian quote.

No this just makes him look more crazy. I doubt he even believes what comes out of his mouth. Yeah he really met some Muslims. RIGHT.

It's some totally weird shit. How do you go from "Hey, Prince, what do you like to do in your time off?" to "You know what I love about my time off? Burqas! I never see enough burqas when I'm strolling about!"

Prince said:

First of all it's lazy. Then/secondly it's as if you've erased/ruined/wiped out the original version. This only happens only in music. Can you imagine if everybody did their own version of the Harry Potter film or book? Do you want to hear somebody else singing 'Kiss'? Not me.

Everyone who has read this quote and goes to his future concerts should start booing/jeering very loudly every time he starts playing other artists' songs. Seriously.