every songwriter has shockers...yes..even bob dylan...he has written plenty of dross...when prince wrote great songs...they were GREAT...and he has written more than almost anyone....i think he should be in the top 5 living songwriters...

Imaginative said:

TwiliteKid said:

Except that's not true either: I just listed his top 10 hits here, but he wrote plenty of other songs that didn't make it that high or just weren't released as singles. It's certainly true that some of his best known stuff was written by or with others, but dismissing Michael's abilities as a songwriter is just silly.

I'll say this: He was a better songwriter than he was a father. Being a single parent and taking anesthesia recreationally with three young children is not just silly, it's reckless and perhaps a little evil.

That's really wrong to talk about his parent skills like that, especially if you don't know him.

These lists are always a joke. Its based on what criteria? Social statements? Then Prince shouldn't be in the top 50. Sole penned hits? Than Prince would probably be in the top 5.

A mixture? Still doesn't make sense. How does Elvis Costello beat Sting, Bono or Stevie Wonder?

As for Leonard Cohen and Tom Waits......completely over rated. They were good, but not in the same league as half of the top 20.

SquirrelMeat said:

These lists are always a joke. Its based on what criteria?

Opinion. That's what all music lists are based on. I don't think you can factually determine who writes the greatest songs.

SquirrelMeat said:

These lists are always a joke. Its based on what criteria? Social statements? Then Prince shouldn't be in the top 50. Sole penned hits? Than Prince would probably be in the top 5.

A mixture? Still doesn't make sense. How does Elvis Costello beat Sting, Bono or Stevie Wonder?

As for Leonard Cohen and Tom Waits......completely over rated. They were good, but not in the same league as half of the top 20.

And Richard Thompson at 63? Really?

Neil Diamond isn't even on there?

Imaginative said:

dyvrdown said:

...bob effing dylan?

Spoken like a true "Mr Jones!" It's one thing not to like him, but to not understand why he is #1... well, "Something is happening here, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?"

Agreed Barry Gibb should be in there.

Dylan is genius, just ask Hendrix AND even Prince covers him on the reg- All Along the WatchTower...

Joni Mitchell at 9 and bob dylan at 1?

as others have said,Barry Gibb should be on this list.

SoulAlive said:

as others have said,Barry Gibb should be on this list.

.

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yes i agree...his stuff was sometimes cheesy but he had an amazing run of writing number one hits in the usa in the late 70s...he wrote something like 7 out of a run of 11 number ones...dont think thats ever been done before...maybe lennon/mccartney got near it...not sure...

.

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just looked it up..

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from 'i just want to be your everything by andy gibb - 4 weeks at number one in july 1977

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to 'love you inside out by the bee gees - 1 week in june 1979

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barry gibb wrote or co-wrote 11 of the 34 number one hits in the usa during that time..including 4 number ones in a row..

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amazing...

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from 'i want to hold your hand' by the beatles - 7 weeks at number one in february 1964

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to 'we can work it out' by the beatles - 3 weeks at number one in january 1966

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lennon/mccartney wrote 12 of the 49 number one hits in the usa during a similar time frame

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[Edited 6/16/11 6:17am]

[Edited 6/16/11 6:21am]

dyvrdown said:

...bob effing dylan?

surprised to see mj so far down the list though. i guess since those lists are always so biased to the oldest artists out there.. (beatles, stones, dylan, etc.) than prince is pretty high up.. basically in first behind all the usuals lol

MJ was BARELY a songwriter. I think that's why he was so far on the list. The songs he DID have a hand in writing are fluff and bubblegum poo at best, so there you have it.

As for Dylan, the man was/is a lyrical genius. Prior to Dylan it was very uncommon for popular singers to write their own material. I can assure you, even though you can't hear it, Dylan changed everything with his songs. He made it cool to be moody, distant, literate and a host of other adjectives. Dylan, Beatles, Stones, etc. influenced every single real artist you like. The reason they get the high spots is because they pushed music in ways no one had before. In the case of the Beatles, they pushed music so much farther than anyone had before and since. If you listen to Princes first album and his most experimental albums you can see a huge growth. If you listen to the Beatles first album and their most experimental efforts they moved so far beyond what was even thought possible. MJ wasn't even a pimple on the Beatles collective ass. Could he dance better than the Beatles? Of course. That's all he had on them and THAT has nothing to do with being a songwriter.

steakfinger said:

dyvrdown said:

...bob effing dylan?

surprised to see mj so far down the list though. i guess since those lists are always so biased to the oldest artists out there.. (beatles, stones, dylan, etc.) than prince is pretty high up.. basically in first behind all the usuals lol

MJ was BARELY a songwriter. I think that's why he was so far on the list. The songs he DID have a hand in writing are fluff and bubblegum poo at best, so there you have it.

As for Dylan, the man was/is a lyrical genius. Prior to Dylan it was very uncommon for popular singers to write their own material. I can assure you, even though you can't hear it, Dylan changed everything with his songs. He made it cool to be moody, distant, literate and a host of other adjectives. Dylan, Beatles, Stones, etc. influenced every single real artist you like. The reason they get the high spots is because they pushed music in ways no one had before. In the case of the Beatles, they pushed music so much farther than anyone had before and since. If you listen to Princes first album and his most experimental albums you can see a huge growth. If you listen to the Beatles first album and their most experimental efforts they moved so far beyond what was even thought possible. MJ wasn't even a pimple on the Beatles collective ass. Could he dance better than the Beatles? Of course. That's all he had on them and THAT has nothing to do with being a songwriter.

STFU.

This list is bullshit and this thread is an excuse for flame wars.

Timmy84 said:

This list is bullshit and this thread is an excuse for flame wars.

That's what I said a long time ago, but nobody listened to me...

The1592 said:

Timmy84 said:

This list is bullshit and this thread is an excuse for flame wars.

That's what I said a long time ago, but nobody listened to me...

I don't see any flaming. I see people voicing opinions that they can't back up, but I don't see any flaming.

TwiliteKid said:

The1592 said:

That's what I said a long time ago, but nobody listened to me...

I don't see any flaming. I see people voicing opinions that they can't back up, but I don't see any flaming.

Perhaps not flaming, but the thread was supposed to be about Prince making a greatest songwriters list, and instead people are just arguing about other artists and making rude comments about other artists' personal lives. This thread has become pointless, and just aiming to start fights.

steakfinger said:

MJ was BARELY a songwriter. I think that's why he was so far on the list. The songs he DID have a hand in writing are fluff and bubblegum poo at best, so there you have it.

As for Dylan, the man was/is a lyrical genius. Prior to Dylan it was very uncommon for popular singers to write their own material. I can assure you, even though you can't hear it, Dylan changed everything with his songs. He made it cool to be moody, distant, literate and a host of other adjectives. Dylan, Beatles, Stones, etc. influenced every single real artist you like. The reason they get the high spots is because they pushed music in ways no one had before. In the case of the Beatles, they pushed music so much farther than anyone had before and since. If you listen to Princes first album and his most experimental albums you can see a huge growth. If you listen to the Beatles first album and their most experimental efforts they moved so far beyond what was even thought possible. MJ wasn't even a pimple on the Beatles collective ass. Could he dance better than the Beatles? Of course. That's all he had on them and THAT has nothing to do with being a songwriter.

[Edited 6/16/11 19:23pm]

The1592 said:

TwiliteKid said:

I don't see any flaming. I see people voicing opinions that they can't back up, but I don't see any flaming.

Perhaps not flaming, but the thread was supposed to be about Prince making a greatest songwriters list, and instead people are just arguing about other artists and making rude comments about other artists' personal lives. This thread has become pointless, and just aiming to start fights.

Welcome to the .org?

TwiliteKid said:

The1592 said:

Perhaps not flaming, but the thread was supposed to be about Prince making a greatest songwriters list, and instead people are just arguing about other artists and making rude comments about other artists' personal lives. This thread has become pointless, and just aiming to start fights.

Welcome to the .org?

Yeah, I know. I've been visiting the org for years. It seemed like all the ignorant people had left, though. I guess not..

Hmmm, not bad. I think he should be in the top 5, but at least he's in the top 10. He is really a talented songwriter, I'm quite amazed at times by some of his lyrics!

Paste's list is a farce. Stevie Wonder all back of the bus at 14 hmmmm, I stopped reading at "Though a collection of 50 writers"