This is kind of old, but interesting.

http://www.pastemagazine....-list.html

Although I don't agree with the exact order, there is more for me to agree with than disagree with.

...bob effing dylan?

surprised to see mj so far down the list though. i guess since those lists are always so biased to the oldest artists out there.. (beatles, stones, dylan, etc.) than prince is pretty high up.. basically in first behind all the usuals lol

that top 10 isn't bad although he should be in the top 5 easily

but where are the Beegees !

btw Public Enemy ?

what does sampling other peoples' music have to do with songwriting ?

same goes for led zeppelin who ripped off everyone

....Have they heard "Everybody Loves Me"? For that song alone Prince needs to be put down a couple notches.

dyvrdown said:

...bob effing dylan?

Spoken like a true "Mr Jones!" It's one thing not to like him, but to not understand why he is #1... well, "Something is happening here, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?"

Agreed Barry Gibb should be in there.

At least they placed him as high as they should have - usually in countdowns like this they completely screw Prince and don't give him anywhere near the credit they should, especially when it comes to stuff like those "Greatest Guitarist" countdowns.

dyvrdown said:

surprised to see mj so far down the list though.

Surprised to see him on the list at all. He didn't write most of his hits, and even fewer by himself.

He was a song and dance man, mostly.

Imaginative said:

dyvrdown said:

surprised to see mj so far down the list though.

Surprised to see him on the list at all. He didn't write most of his hits, and even fewer by himself.

He was a song and dance man, mostly.

yeah i thought of that after i posted it. i went back to look at the list again and i was like "well... he didnt write very much anyway."

Dewrede said:

btw Public Enemy ?

what does sampling other peoples' music have to do with songwriting ?

you really just exposed your ignorance of hip hop. although PE has sampled plenty, they were known for pioneering a frenetic sound that accompanied their (really Chuck D's) complex, biting lyrical commentary on social injustice. Peep Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos for starters. They stand alone. Chuck D is a personal hero! Arguably the "Dylan" of hip hop as it relates to consciousness (along with KRS-1)

Anyone else notice that John Lennon wasn't on this list? I'm thinking Lennon/McCartney should have been the appropriate entry in the top 10.

Just sayin'.

UltraLash said:

Anyone else notice that John Lennon wasn't on this list? I'm thinking Lennon/McCartney should have been the appropriate entry in the top 10.

Just sayin'.

John Lennon is dead. The list was about the greatest living songwriters.

Imaginative said:

dyvrdown said:

surprised to see mj so far down the list though.

Surprised to see him on the list at all. He didn't write most of his hits, and even fewer by himself.

He was a song and dance man, mostly.

Oh yeah?

Speaking strictly of his adult career (starting with Off The Wall in 1979), he was the sole writer of: "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Wanna Be Startin' Something", "Billie Jean", "Beat It", "Bad", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal", "Black Or White", and "Will You Be There", all of which were top 10 hits. Seven of those hit #1, leaving only four #1 singles that he didn't write.

Care to revise your statement?

TwiliteKid said:

Imaginative said:

Surprised to see him on the list at all. He didn't write most of his hits, and even fewer by himself.

He was a song and dance man, mostly.

Oh yeah?

Speaking strictly of his adult career (starting with Off The Wall in 1979), he was the sole writer of: "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Wanna Be Startin' Something", "Billie Jean", "Beat It", "Bad", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal", "Black Or White", and "Will You Be There", all of which were top 10 hits. Seven of those hit #1, leaving only four #1 singles that he didn't write.

Care to revise your statement?

Sure, "He didn't write most of his material, and even less of it by himself." I'll add that he really didn't make a single piece of important music after Thriller, and his most enduring music is pre-1979.

Now if we're talking the most SUCCESSFUL songwriters ever, based on how often their songs have been covered by other artists; neither Prince nor MJ crack the Top 100.

http://www.secondhandsongs.com/stats/author_covered

[Edited 6/15/11 20:24pm]

Imaginative said:

TwiliteKid said:

Oh yeah?

Speaking strictly of his adult career (starting with Off The Wall in 1979), he was the sole writer of: "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Wanna Be Startin' Something", "Billie Jean", "Beat It", "Bad", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal", "Black Or White", and "Will You Be There", all of which were top 10 hits. Seven of those hit #1, leaving only four #1 singles that he didn't write.

Care to revise your statement?

Sure, "He didn't write most of his material, and even less of it by himself."

Except that's not true either: I just listed his top 10 hits here, but he wrote plenty of other songs that didn't make it that high or just weren't released as singles. It's certainly true that some of his best known stuff was written by or with others, but dismissing Michael's abilities as a songwriter is just silly.

TwiliteKid said:

Imaginative said:

Surprised to see him on the list at all. He didn't write most of his hits, and even fewer by himself.

He was a song and dance man, mostly.

Oh yeah?

Speaking strictly of his adult career (starting with Off The Wall in 1979), he was the sole writer of: "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Wanna Be Startin' Something", "Billie Jean", "Beat It", "Bad", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal", "Black Or White", and "Will You Be There", all of which were top 10 hits. Seven of those hit #1, leaving only four #1 singles that he didn't write.

Care to revise your statement?

MJ was very talented but I doubt he wrote any of those songs...maybe wrote the lyrics for some, but surely not much of the music. He was mainly a talented vocalist, dancer and performer.

That would be saying that Katy Perry or Britney Spears wrote their hits too...they didn't do sh*t and they have brilliant songwriters (Max Martin, etc) writing their stuff. MJ was not a great songwriter...again he was great at what he did but wasn't writing songs.

.

[Edited 6/15/11 20:28pm]

FunkiestOne said:

TwiliteKid said:

Oh yeah?

Speaking strictly of his adult career (starting with Off The Wall in 1979), he was the sole writer of: "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Wanna Be Startin' Something", "Billie Jean", "Beat It", "Bad", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal", "Black Or White", and "Will You Be There", all of which were top 10 hits. Seven of those hit #1, leaving only four #1 singles that he didn't write.

Care to revise your statement?

MJ was very talented but I doubt he wrote any of those songs...maybe wrote the lyrics for some, but surely not much of the music. He was mainly a talented vocalist, dancer and performer.

That would be saying that Katy Perry or Britney Spears wrote their hits too...they didn't do sh*t and they have brilliant songwriters (Max Martin, etc) writing their stuff. MJ was not a great songwriter...again he was great at what he did but wasn't writing songs.

.

[Edited 6/15/11 20:28pm]

Don't any of you like to know what you're talking about before you post?

I'm not going to argue about Katy Perry or Britney Spears, but you're wrong about Michael: his songwriting abilities and process have been well-documented. His original home demos of some of the songs above have been released commerically. He wrote them, end of story.

[Edited 6/15/11 20:36pm]

TwiliteKid said:

Imaginative said:

Sure, "He didn't write most of his material, and even less of it by himself."

Except that's not true either: I just listed his top 10 hits here, but he wrote plenty of other songs that didn't make it that high or just weren't released as singles. It's certainly true that some of his best known stuff was written by or with others, but dismissing Michael's abilities as a songwriter is just silly.

I'll say this: He was a better songwriter than he was a father. Being a single parent and taking anesthesia recreationally with three young children is not just silly, it's reckless and perhaps a little evil.

Imaginative said:

TwiliteKid said:

Except that's not true either: I just listed his top 10 hits here, but he wrote plenty of other songs that didn't make it that high or just weren't released as singles. It's certainly true that some of his best known stuff was written by or with others, but dismissing Michael's abilities as a songwriter is just silly.

I'll say this: He was a better songwriter than he was a father. Being a single parent and taking anesthesia recreationally with three young children is not just silly, it's reckless and perhaps a little evil.

I can't argue with that, though I'm not sure why'd you bring that up in a discusion of songwriting.

TwiliteKid said:

Imaginative said:

I'll say this: He was a better songwriter than he was a father. Being a single parent and taking anesthesia recreationally with three young children is not just silly, it's reckless and perhaps a little evil.

I can't argue with that, though I'm not sure why'd you bring that up in a discusion of songwriting.

I digressed!

datdude said:

Dewrede said:

btw Public Enemy ?

what does sampling other peoples' music have to do with songwriting ?

you really just exposed your ignorance of hip hop. although PE has sampled plenty, they were known for pioneering a frenetic sound that accompanied their (really Chuck D's) complex, biting lyrical commentary on social injustice. Peep Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos for starters. They stand alone. Chuck D is a personal hero! Arguably the "Dylan" of hip hop as it relates to consciousness (along with KRS-1)

songwriting implies actual melodies and harmonies

i don't despute their greatness but songwriters they were not imo

[Edited 6/15/11 21:07pm]

Imaginative said:

dyvrdown said:

...bob effing dylan?

Spoken like a true "Mr Jones!" It's one thing not to like him, but to not understand why he is #1... well, "Something is happening here, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?"

Agreed Barry Gibb should be in there.

i think he should be in the top 5

Dewrede said:

datdude said:

you really just exposed your ignorance of hip hop. although PE has sampled plenty, they were known for pioneering a frenetic sound that accompanied their (really Chuck D's) complex, biting lyrical commentary on social injustice. Peep Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos for starters. They stand alone. Chuck D is a personal hero! Arguably the "Dylan" of hip hop as it relates to consciousness (along with KRS-1)

songwriting implies actual melodies and harmonies

i don't despute their greatness but songwriters they were not imo

[Edited 6/15/11 21:07pm]

Technically, according to ASCAP a song is only melody and lyric, not harmony. A chord progression cannot be protected by law.

derrick31 said:

Imaginative said:

TwiliteKid said:

Except that's not true either: I just listed his top 10 hits here, but he wrote plenty of other songs that didn't make it that high or just weren't released as singles. It's certainly true that some of his best known stuff was written by or with others, but dismissing Michael's abilities as a songwriter is just silly.

I'll say this: He was a better songwriter than he was a father. Being a single parent and taking anesthesia recreationally with three young children is not just silly, it's reckless and perhaps a little evil.

I don't know why you'd bring that up (guess you're angry that you've been proven wrong, so you'd just make a cheap off-topic comment), or why you'd judge someone's pareting skills based on things you've heard. You don't know what he was like as a parent, and you apparently obviously don't know anything about his music either.

I'm also not sure why this thread was posted in 'Prince: Music and More', and none (or very few) of the replies have been about Prince.

I also don't understand why someone would debate MJ writing his songs, even though he's credited as the sole songwriter of them (he did compose the melodies too), nor do I understand someone being surprised that Bob Dylan is #1 on a best songwriters list.

This thread should just be locked. None of the replies have anything to do with Prince, and everybody's just talking nonsense. Anytime someone posts a list thread, it's never about Prince... it's always just a place for people to argue over other artists.

Oh, and on topic, glad to see Prince get some recognition! I'm not sure if he deserves that much praise as a lyricist, but I think he's great at composing music ... melodies and such.

[Edited 6/16/11 2:09am]

I disagree with the poster who is trying to discredit MJ, MJ wrote alot of good songs. I've heard the demo versions of quite a few songs before Quincy even worked on the songs. Mj knew how to write good songs, especially good melodies

Anyway, nice to see Prince in the top 10.

hhhhdmt said:

I disagree with the poster who is trying to discredit MJ, MJ wrote alot of good songs. I've heard the demo versions of quite a few songs before Quincy even worked on the songs. Mj knew how to write good songs, especially good melodies

Anyway, nice to see Prince in the top 10.

I agree with both of your comments, but like I said in my last post, greatest artist, or in this case, greatest songwriter list threads are always just a place for people to trash music they don't listen to.

smoothcriminal12 said:

....Have they heard "Everybody Loves Me"? For that song alone Prince needs to be put down a couple notches.

Honestly, that song doesn't sound that bad. To me, it's a fusion of Dirty Mind, Let's Pretend We're Married and Jack U Off. The lyrics might be weak but then again, "I sincerely want to fuck the taste out of your mouth," or "I'll Jack U Off," aren't particularly strong lyrics either. If you had said Sea Of Everything then I would have agreed with you. That song puts me to sleep.

lol, if this were based on the last 10 years he wouldn't be in the top 100!!!, he's lucky to be in the top 10!!. His lyrics on a lot of songs IMHO are very lazy, sometimes juvenile and very cliche'd. Gone are the days of painting pictures in your mind alas.

By way of example of how far in decline he has gone check these out:

Chelsea Rodgers - an amazing track ruined by the words [chillin' cod fish' indeed!!]

Everybody loves me [Lawd!

Compassion[eek!]

Life O the party[come on!]

the list is endless!!

Charlie Wilson?