Ok, it is 15 years since the release of Emancipation, and we can now reflect on his output since leaving WB. How would you rate the decade and a half of freedom from a major label as compared to the 18 years at Warner? Granted, not every release on WB was stellar. There were stumbles (Chaos And Disorder) and contractual obligation releases (The Vault) but when most people think of Prince, they think of his WB period. I don't think that there are a lot of people outside of the hardcore music fans that even realize he is still releasing music every year. Seriously, when is the last time you pulled up to a stoplight and a contemporary Prince song was playing in the next car over?

I had such high hopes for Prince knowing that he wasn't going to be controlled by the record label, but so far his output has been scattered and not completely satisfying at all. Yes there is the occasional good song and an album or two that can arguably be considered important (The Live album and The Rainbow Children -to a certain extent), but most of his releases are sadly forgettable, at least to me.

So, the question is... how would you compare his 15 years of freedom to his 18 years of WB? Do you think that he could have a greatest hits album as strong as his Warner greatest hits? ok, that is two questions.

and.... go.

I can't even listen to the bulk of what Prince has released since leaving Warner. Emancipation still has some good tracks, and on a nice day I can open the windows and listen to it beginning to end. Musicology–the song, not the album—is great. Rave has a few good tracks. Lotusflow3r is great. And I like laydown. All the rest is just plain forgettable.

And that's just the music. His lyrics have just been much worse.

My hopes were cranked up to 11 when Prince was going around touting the forthcoming Emancipation as the album he "was born to make". Then I heard it. Ever since, my hopes have dropped to the point that I haven't even bothered to seek out a copy of 20ten yet.

He occasionally kicks my ass (TRC, NEWS, PFUnk, 1/2 of Lotusflower), but my opinion is much the same as everyone else's: dude needs someone telling him what to do - even if only to make him fight back against them.

eyewishuheaven said:

My hopes were cranked up to 11 when Prince was going around touting the forthcoming Emancipation as the album he "was born to make". Then I heard it. Ever since, my hopes have dropped to the point that I haven't even bothered to seek out a copy of 20ten yet.

He occasionally kicks my ass (TRC, NEWS, PFUnk, 1/2 of Lotusflower), but my opinion is much the same as everyone else's: dude needs someone telling him what to do - even if only to make him fight back against them.

You're gonna get murdered here, you know?

Still, I agree with every word you've said.

I'd take the WB stuff any day over his subsequent output.

Lammastide said:

You're gonna get murdered here, you know?

Why, 'cause I like NEWS?

I keep trying to tell people, Prince had a lot of comp in the 80's & it was all about Comp to Prince. He had to come hard during those periods & that's why he was SO dope[along with his great talent of course]! Now Days, he's older & has no real comp anymore. He has nothing left to prove. "Emancipation" is the last album that Prince released that I feel he was trying to prove something. Ever since then, it hasn't been the same. But the sad thing is....IT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. Prince may have one really really good album left in him [of new music], after that, just be happy you're getting new music....

WB!! Prince has sucked since leaving. Its hard to even listen to the post WB albums. I could make a good 2cd set of his entire career after WB but thats about it

My vote goes to Prince's 18 years with Warner Brothers Records.

THE only thing that would have made THIS^ timeline perfect is if the label execs would have allow Prince to release the original Crystal Ball album instead of Sign 'O' The Time in 1987.

During Prince's 15+ years of freedom, Emancipation was his only great album. Musicology & 3121 were good albums. But that's about it.

During his 15 Years (so far) of freedom he made 3 great albums (not counting any NPGMC exclusive stuff):

Emancipation (1996)

3121 (2006)
Lotusflow3r/MPLSound (2009)

During his 18 years with WB he made 6 masterpieces and 6 near masterpieces

Dirty Mind (1980) Masterpiece

Controversy (1981) Near Masterpiece

1999 (1982) Near Masterpiece

Purple Rain (1984) Masterpiece

Around The World In A Day (1985) Masterpiece

Parade (1986) Masterpiece

Sign "O" The Times (1987) Masterpiece

Batman (1989) Near Masterpiece

Diamonds and Pearls (1991) Near Masterpiece

(1992) Near Masterpiece

The Black Album (1994) Near Masterpiece

The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale (1999 - recorded during the WB Years) Masterpiece

Makes the last 15 years look quite pathetic.

I'm glad he left, if he were still with WB they would be having him remake the American Songbook by now. I wonder if Madonna fans ask whether she should have stayed with Sire Records?

How about both? What's with the constant need to compare one era to the next? Same brotha, different music, in the end it's all subjective.

I think Prince has self-destructive issues, so he was gonna go off the rails creatively either way.

Just gimme dem unreleased 78-88 tracks and he can piss out as many MPLSounds and Raves as he wants for all I care. Box O' Chocolates and Soundboard 7/6/84 are his best post-WB releases!

NouveauDance said:

I think Prince has self-destructive issues, so he was gonna go off the rails creatively either way.

Just gimme dem unreleased 78-88 tracks and he can piss out as many MPLSounds and Raves as he wants for all I care. Box O' Chocolates and Soundboard 7/6/84 are his best post-WB releases!

802 said:

During his 18 years with WB he made 6 masterpieces and 6 near masterpieces

Dirty Mind (1980) Masterpiece

Controversy (1981) Near Masterpiece

1999 (1982) Near Masterpiece

Purple Rain (1984) Masterpiece

Around The World In A Day (1985) Masterpiece

Parade (1986) Masterpiece

Sign "O" The Times (1987) Masterpiece

Batman (1989) Near Masterpiece

Diamonds and Pearls (1991) Near Masterpiece

(1992) Near Masterpiece

The Black Album (1994) Near Masterpiece

The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale (1999 - recorded during the WB Years) Masterpiece

You forgot the masterpiece Lovesexy.

I have to take issue with the way this discussion is framed. Maybe it's just me but it seems like the argument is being made that WB had a lot to do with the quality of his music circa 1978-1996. I don't think that's true at all. If Prince had been independant circa 1978-late 1996 and on WB circa late 1996-present does anyone think that the later years would have been "better" than the earlier ones? WB may have pushed him a little bit to be more commercial but if you look at his post WB music the vast majority of it is as "safe" or "safer" than what he was doing on a major label. The Rainbow Children and the instrumental albums are obvious exceptions but probably 3/4 of his post WB music has been fairly tame and commercial.

Even if Prince had stuck with WB it seems extremely likely that his music would have had a dip in quality similar to what happened after he left WB. One possible positive might have been that if he was still on WB they may have pushed for more extensive reissues and archive releases. I think we would all be happy if Prince had a Bootleg Series similar to Bob Dylan and I think a major label would have seen the potential and pressured him to release some of it.

The independant years started off with a lot of promise, we got a three disc set of new music followed by three discs of vault material packaged with a new album but unfortunately soon what we were given were the less than stellar NPGMC tracks and after that he closed the vault and it hasn't been opened again in several years. Maybe someday he will go through a nostalgic phase and dedicate a year or so towards going through the vault and preparing some of it for release?

I'm a bigger fan than most of the post WB stuff, buy weighing it all up, the WB era material from was far superior.

Did Prince suddenly lose it musically when he left WB? Some will argue yes, with the albums as evidence. I don't think Prince has lost it musically at all.

So the question should be not which do I prefer, but why do I think the independent era is weaker?

I think the problem stems from the fact that the record company was the only entity EVER in Prince's career to question and reject his work. They were the only other party with a serious commerical interest and the only people around Prince that were not "yes" men. Of course, this is the very reason Prince eventually wanted out, because he felt a "Slave", but the fact is, the power that WB had to say no actually improved Prince's output.

WB spend most of the partnership strangling Prince's output. This did two things. Firstly, it usually focused his mind on one concept at a time. He only had one shot a year to say something to the world and I think the output was often more connected and whole.

Secondly, it restricted his volume. Meaning the better cuts made the grade. Sure there are some great outtakes, but as a whole, the best tracks made the album. Without that restriction, we got bloated productions like Emacipation.

I also think that technology played a part in making the WB material feel stronger. Again it's about the effect of restricting Prince's output. Vinyl made Prince think about what he could get out. Its no coincidence that the "Classic" albums were all native to vinyl. The advent of Prince albums native to CD in the 90's led to Prince leaving track on albums that would not have made the cut previously.

Prince is still making great material, he just doesn't have a foil to make him raise his game like WB, and that has made him lazy with his production, and allowed him to put out below par material all over the place.

The new good stuff is there, its just drowned out with mediocrity.

NouveauDance said:

Box O' Chocolates and Soundboard 7/6/84 are his best post-WB releases!

Thats not fair. You forgot about the 03/03/86 show as well...

SquirrelMeat said:

NouveauDance said:

Box O' Chocolates and Soundboard 7/6/84 are his best post-WB releases!

Thats not fair. You forgot about the 03/03/86 show as well...

I stand corrected!

WB hardly ever controlled anything: they asked Prince to add a popish song that could be a hit on 1999 (which ended-up being 1999), they asked him to add Gett Off to D&P, they forced him to make the triple CB into the double SOTT, they asked for Jam, Lewis and Johnson to be integrated in the Corporate World project, they asked for some reworking on Carmen Electra's first configuration, they refused to release Come and TGE at the same time and they refused to release Goldnigga. It's not much, it has nothing to do with most of Prince's "classic" albums and besides that, they had absolutely no creative control over what Prince released.

Basically Prince was as free back then as he is now so it's not about WB being around or not, it's about how he evolved as an artist. Personnally I'm not complaining: i like most of what he did since he left WB, and i don't expect him to be the innovator he once was anymore because i don't expect it of ANY musician who once was an innovator. People get old and the wilderness is replaced by maturity: that's life and it kinda happened to ALL the great musicians of our time. My only frustration is quantity: Prince could release 4 new albums a year, he could also start to open the gates of the vault, and he just doesn't. Still, we keep having an average of one album a year, which is more than most musicians deliver, particularly at this age.

[Edited 5/12/11 10:40am]

I'll take the uncensored Prince every day of the week.

MarquessMarq said:

How about both? What's with the constant need to compare one era to the next? Same brotha, different music, in the end it's all subjective.

Prince, unlike so many artist, has evolved over the years.

Can u honestly ask 4 more from an artist?

paisleypark4 said:

MarquessMarq said:

How about both? What's with the constant need to compare one era to the next? Same brotha, different music, in the end it's all subjective.

U know nobody is going to pay that any attention in this thread sadly..they rather compare.

This.

Splitting with WB was his stupidest move ever. After that he fell into anonymity, his music lost a lot of quality almost instantly, he never reached his WB-period popularity again, and all the other bullshit we went through with him started at exactly that point. Everything was good when he was at WB, after the split everything went worse. Black and white? Yes, sure. But that's how i see it.

madhouseman said:

How would you rate the decade and a half of freedom from a major label as compared to the 18 years at Warner?

and.... go.

Every release since the WB days are stand alone albums. P is still experimenting with new music, the lyrics have no strayed to far off unless you include The Rainbow Children. I'd say every album since Chaos & Disorder forward have been at least a 3 out of 5 album, IMHO ...

I love it all (bottom-line) ...

Timmy84 said:

paisleypark4 said:

U know nobody is going to pay that any attention in this thread sadly..they rather compare.

This.

I will go on the record and say this.

If Prince had WB or any other major label backing him in the last 15 years several of the albums that many are "dissing" would be hailed as classics.

Another huge problem with Prince is Prince's versatility and his ability to change the style of his albums.People who look for the next Purple Rain and get Around the World are left dissapointed and then start to complain that Prince had lost it.

Do many of you realize that many of the albums that you are hailing as "masterpieces" were bashed by the fans and critics alike. SOTT was criticized for being too long and the album should have been one album. Lovesexy was criticized as being a "rehash" of things that Prince had already done and too 1999 like. Gold was likewise.

Diamond and Pearls was a chart masterpiece but many on this site bash and pan the album.

Another thing that many seem to forget is that Prince is 53 years old . Meaning he has been "old" to teenagers (the main music buying public) for 20 years at least.

Chaos is not a stumble!