He would make the fans happy if he opened up the vault and released high-quality versions of some of the great material we know is in there, along with digital remasters of the classic albums. He'd better hurry, given how much good stuff we've been getting lately through other sources. But I'm guessing there is some good material in the vault that has never been leaked.

electricberet said:

He would make the fans happy if he opened up the vault and released high-quality versions of some of the great material we know is in there, along with digital remasters of the classic albums. He'd better hurry, given how much good stuff we've been getting lately through other sources. But I'm guessing there is some good material in the vault that has never been leaked.

No guessing to it, I'm sure there is some great stuff there that may not ever see the light of day.

electricberet said:

He would make the fans happy if he opened up the vault and released high-quality versions of some of the great material we know is in there, along with digital remasters of the classic albums. He'd better hurry, given how much good stuff we've been getting lately through other sources. But I'm guessing there is some good material in the vault that has never been leaked.

I have a feeling not everything in the infamous vault is GOLD but, it would be nice to hear some of it, yes ...

Graycap23 said:

I'll take the uncensored Prince every day of the week.

Which would be the WB era then? I can't think of a single instance of him being censored by Warner.

muleFunk said:

I will go on the record and say this.

If Prince had WB or any other major label backing him in the last 15 years several of the albums that many are "dissing" would be hailed as classics.

Another huge problem with Prince is Prince's versatility and his ability to change the style of his albums.People who look for the next Purple Rain and get Around the World are left dissapointed and then start to complain that Prince had lost it.

Do many of you realize that many of the albums that you are hailing as "masterpieces" were bashed by the fans and critics alike. SOTT was criticized for being too long and the album should have been one album. Lovesexy was criticized as being a "rehash" of things that Prince had already done and too 1999 like. Gold was likewise.

Diamond and Pearls was a chart masterpiece but many on this site bash and pan the album.

Another thing that many seem to forget is that Prince is 53 years old . Meaning he has been "old" to teenagers (the main music buying public) for 20 years at least.

None of this really addresses the topic. Your first point is especially ridiculous, but the rest your arguments have more to do with other's perception of Prince's career. What's being asked is which YOU prefer. What does the average age of the music-ubying populice have to do with it?

PurpleLove7 said:

electricberet said:

He would make the fans happy if he opened up the vault and released high-quality versions of some of the great material we know is in there, along with digital remasters of the classic albums. He'd better hurry, given how much good stuff we've been getting lately through other sources. But I'm guessing there is some good material in the vault that has never been leaked.

I have a feeling not everything in the infamous vault is GOLD but, it would be nice to hear some of it, yes ...

I totally agree with you that most of the songs in the vault aren't that great. I love the outtakes we've gotten but for the most part they aren't chart toppers. He has some good ones (Moonbeam Levels, There's Others Here With Us, etc.), but I really can't imagine many of them being as big as Kiss or Cream.

There is some good material in the vault, but if albums like the 3 CD Crystal Ball set and WB's The Vault are an indication, it is material that would interest hardcore completists rather than gather new fans.

madhouseman said:

PurpleLove7 said:

I have a feeling not everything in the infamous vault is GOLD but, it would be nice to hear some of it, yes ...

I totally agree with you that most of the songs in the vault aren't that great. I love the outtakes we've gotten but for the most part they aren't chart toppers. He has some good ones (Moonbeam Levels, There's Others Here With Us, etc.), but I really can't imagine many of them being as big as Kiss or Cream.

There is some good material in the vault, but if albums like the 3 CD Crystal Ball set and WB's The Vault are an indication, it is material that would interest hardcore completists rather than gather new fans.

Even if there's only one gem such as "When the Lights Go Down" for every 10 outtakes he releases, then it's worth it.

muleFunk said:

I will go on the record and say this.

If Prince had WB or any other major label backing him in the last 15 years several of the albums that many are "dissing" would be hailed as classics.

Another huge problem with Prince is Prince's versatility and his ability to change the style of his albums.People who look for the next Purple Rain and get Around the World are left dissapointed and then start to complain that Prince had lost it.

Do many of you realize that many of the albums that you are hailing as "masterpieces" were bashed by the fans and critics alike. SOTT was criticized for being too long and the album should have been one album. Lovesexy was criticized as being a "rehash" of things that Prince had already done and too 1999 like. Gold was likewise.

Diamond and Pearls was a chart masterpiece but many on this site bash and pan the album.

Another thing that many seem to forget is that Prince is 53 years old . Meaning he has been "old" to teenagers (the main music buying public) for 20 years at least.

absolute nonsense. parade and sott were nme albums of the year in britain, in the 80s prince couldn't have been more critically acclaimed and i don't remember one fan complaining about an album until graffiti bridge. that whole project was the beginning of his artistic decline, his next few albums nailed the coffin lid tighter and tighter.

olb99 said:

madhouseman said:

I totally agree with you that most of the songs in the vault aren't that great. I love the outtakes we've gotten but for the most part they aren't chart toppers. He has some good ones (Moonbeam Levels, There's Others Here With Us, etc.), but I really can't imagine many of them being as big as Kiss or Cream.

There is some good material in the vault, but if albums like the 3 CD Crystal Ball set and WB's The Vault are an indication, it is material that would interest hardcore completists rather than gather new fans.

Even if there's only one gem such as "When the Lights Go Down" for every 10 outtakes he releases, then it's worth it.

I agree 100%! I wish he'd release more of his past work. There is a market for it and we can decide what works and what doesn't for our tastes.

^"When the lights go down" is indeed a wonderful track!

jaypotton said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I'm a bigger fan than most of the post WB stuff, buy weighing it all up, the WB era material from was far superior.

Did Prince suddenly lose it musically when he left WB? Some will argue yes, with the albums as evidence. I don't think Prince has lost it musically at all.

So the question should be not which do I prefer, but why do I think the independent era is weaker?

I think the problem stems from the fact that the record company was the only entity EVER in Prince's career to question and reject his work. They were the only other party with a serious commerical interest and the only people around Prince that were not "yes" men. Of course, this is the very reason Prince eventually wanted out, because he felt a "Slave", but the fact is, the power that WB had to say no actually improved Prince's output.

WB spend most of the partnership strangling Prince's output. This did two things. Firstly, it usually focused his mind on one concept at a time. He only had one shot a year to say something to the world and I think the output was often more connected and whole.

Secondly, it restricted his volume. Meaning the better cuts made the grade. Sure there are some great outtakes, but as a whole, the best tracks made the album. Without that restriction, we got bloated productions like Emacipation.

I also think that technology played a part in making the WB material feel stronger. Again it's about the effect of restricting Prince's output. Vinyl made Prince think about what he could get out. Its no coincidence that the "Classic" albums were all native to vinyl. The advent of Prince albums native to CD in the 90's led to Prince leaving track on albums that would not have made the cut previously.

Prince is still making great material, he just doesn't have a foil to make him raise his game like WB, and that has made him lazy with his production, and allowed him to put out below par material all over the place.

The new good stuff is there, its just drowned out with mediocrity.

I've not posted for a while (nothing new on the Prince horizon for me to get excited about) but as always Squirrel comes along with a fair and constructive viewpoint. I agree with ALL of these points but will also add something else...

During the 80s Prince WAS THE ZEITGEIST. He was different. He was unique. He started trends (Minneapolis Sound) rather than followed or incorporated trends as happened in the 90s.

However, NO ARTIST remains in vogue or in tune/driving the Zeitgeist for more than a decade or so. That is because it is a generational thing. Each generation want their own soundtrack rather than the one either their parents or their older siblings listened to.

Prince had his day in the 80s. That is NOT to say his music became any less good (IMHO) but as Squirrel said the editing wasn't there. In addition there was nothing new to say/do/sound like. Prince had pretty much done it by the mid 90s anyway so he was always going to be in danger of repeating himself or becoming a self parody (like ALL artists eventually do - for example, look at the ex-Beatles solo work - hmmm sounds quite like the Beatles for the most part right!).

I think 3121 is an awesome album and had that been released by WB in the 80s we would all be saying it was a classic. However, it was 20 years later. Musical tastes change. The zeitgeist changes.

If you take all of Prince's post WB output and did a judicial edit on it there is no doubt you would be able top put together 5 or 6 classic albums (although my playlist would no doubt differ to yours) BUT it still wouldn't be as exciting as the output from the 80s because it wouldn't be NEW or different as we have already heard Prince do it before!

So while this thread uses WB and post WB as the yardstick I would say it is early career vs late career. It is a trend that is there for all artists whether you like them or not.

Wow, perfectly stated.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

absolute nonsense. parade and sott were nme albums of the year in britain, in the 80s prince couldn't have been more critically acclaimed and i don't remember one fan complaining about an album until graffiti bridge. that whole project was the beginning of his artistic decline, his next few albums nailed the coffin lid tighter and tighter.

It wasn't nonsense in the states...

Fans began abandoning Prince after PR almost as quickly as they found him...Most new and many long-time fans seemed to grow increasingly tired of his ATWIAD/Parade style output. By the time 1988 rolled around, he could barely move 500k copies of LoveSexy even with a tour behind it. ...and when the era ended with Graffiti Bridge, Entertainment Weekly rightly surmised that Prince was singing to an audience that had already left him behind.

As to the greater topic, I believe WB is to be thanked for a lot. They didn't control the content of his albums outright but they certainly set a semi-reliable schedule (one album a year). Between that, boardroom discussions and the carrots offered in certain contracts I believe they surely helped Prince focus on making each, once a year, album the best it could be at the time. Post-WB, I don't believe there's been as much attention to detail. Prince has released albums that would never have made the cut under WB and no doubt he placed less importance on them with the thought he could release another one as soon as he wanted.

jtfolden said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

absolute nonsense. parade and sott were nme albums of the year in britain, in the 80s prince couldn't have been more critically acclaimed and i don't remember one fan complaining about an album until graffiti bridge. that whole project was the beginning of his artistic decline, his next few albums nailed the coffin lid tighter and tighter.

It wasn't nonsense in the states...

Fans began abandoning Prince after PR almost as quickly as they found him...Most new and many long-time fans seemed to grow increasingly tired of his ATWIAD/Parade style output. By the time 1988 rolled around, he could barely move 500k copies of LoveSexy even with a tour behind it. ...and when the era ended with Graffiti Bridge, Entertainment Weekly rightly surmised that Prince was singing to an audience that had already left him behind.

As to the greater topic, I believe WB is to be thanked for a lot. They didn't control the content of his albums outright but they certainly set a semi-reliable schedule (one album a year). Between that, boardroom discussions and the carrots offered in certain contracts I believe they surely helped Prince focus on making each, once a year, album the best it could be at the time. Post-WB, I don't believe there's been as much attention to detail. Prince has released albums that would never have made the cut under WB and no doubt he placed less importance on them with the thought he could release another one as soon as he wanted.

i can only speak about how it is was in uk. while purple rain also sold massively more than ATWIAD etc, it was those albums that gave prince his reputation as a genre defying genius, lovesexy was seen as a continuation of that and the tour remains his most critically acclaimed.

agree with your second paragraph.

802 said:

During his 15 Years (so far) of freedom he made 3 great albums (not counting any NPGMC exclusive stuff):

Emancipation (1996)

3121 (2006)
Lotusflow3r/MPLSound (2009)

During his 18 years with WB he made 6 masterpieces and 6 near masterpieces

Dirty Mind (1980) Masterpiece

Controversy (1981) Near Masterpiece

1999 (1982) Near Masterpiece

Purple Rain (1984) Masterpiece

Around The World In A Day (1985) Masterpiece

Parade (1986) Masterpiece

Sign "O" The Times (1987) Masterpiece

Batman (1989) Near Masterpiece

Diamonds and Pearls (1991) Near Masterpiece

(1992) Near Masterpiece

The Black Album (1994) Near Masterpiece

The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale (1999 - recorded during the WB Years) Masterpiece

Makes the last 15 years look quite pathetic.

I wouldn't call The Vault a 'masterpiece'. In fact, I'm not sure I'd count it as an original album.

More controversial, I doubt I'd call ATWIAD a masterpiece.

Don't get me wrong, it's an incredible album, but 'masterpiece'?

Masterpiece (or chef d'œuvre) in modern usage refers to a creation that has

been given much critical praise, especially one that is considered the

greatest work of a person's career or to a work of outstanding creativity,

skill or workmanship.