OnlyNDaUsa said:

novabrkr said:

It's not an "anti-incest" song. The lyrics are far too dirty and full of humor for it to be that. Per Nilsen gave the song that intepretation in his book Dancemusicsexromance and people seem to have eaten it up.

I have never read his book or his interpretation. I did not need to read it to understand that the song is about the conflict of the situation. The voice is not happy and wants out of the sexual aspect of the relationship but is trapped. The voice also blames himself for the situation.

I've commented on this before.

Pornographic imagery in the past decades was quite different from what it is now. It wasn't unheard in the 1970s and the 1980s to have simulated rape / incest / zoophilia scenes featured even in magazines that were sold in grocery stores (they typically had plastic wrappers around them). That was one of the aspects of a "dirty magazine" - they were sometimes just "dirty" and not everything in them was meant as "erotic". Even the famous film Emmanuelle had a rape scene in it, but nobody really makes the claim these days that it was intended as some sort of social commentary. That sort of a thing was seen as one aspect of pornography. The fictional stories printed on their pages were also quite controversial in nature. Some of the magazines also published pictures of skin diseases and deformations, so their function was sometimes taken to be an outlet for thing that you wouldn't otherwise get subjected to.

"Sister" performs the same function. Even if it is not necessarily supposed to be a "fantasy" that Prince himself had, it is definitely meant to be "dirty".

novabrkr said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have never read his book or his interpretation. I did not need to read it to understand that the song is about the conflict of the situation. The voice is not happy and wants out of the sexual aspect of the relationship but is trapped. The voice also blames himself for the situation.

I've commented on this before.

Pornographic imagery in the past decades was quite different from what it is now. It wasn't unheard in the 1970s and the 1980s to have simulated rape / incest / zoophilia scenes featured even in magazines that were sold in grocery stores (they typically had plastic wrappers around them). That was one of the aspects of a "dirty magazine" - they were sometimes just "dirty" and not everything in them was meant as "erotic". Even the famous film Emmanuelle had a rape scene in it, but nobody really makes the claim these days that it was intended as some sort of social commentary. That sort of a thing was seen as one aspect of pornography. The fictional stories printed on their pages were also quite controversial in nature. Some of the magazines also published pictures of skin diseases and deformations, so their function was sometimes taken to be an outlet for thing that you wouldn't otherwise get subjected to.

"Sister" performs the same function. Even if it is not necessarily supposed to be a "fantasy" that Prince himself had, it is definitely meant to be "dirty".

I can agree with that it was meant to be dirty but it also has the shame that goes with being abused. It is not pro-incest. It is saying if nothing else: it was fun but I wanted it too stop but I felt traped.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

JoeTyler said:

For fuck's sake, it's just fiction, guys, the apex of the Rude Boy and his dirty stories

it's not even a fantasy...just fiction, controversy...fun...

I agree it is fiction: HOWEVER?!

why would the fantasy include the self blame and wanting it to be over? Why include the conflict of being a victim?

A song that is not pro-incest is not necessarily anti-incest. It's not even clear that the song is really about incest, but if it is, the lyrics suggest some conflicted feelings about it.

Angelic1302 said:

Come on! Everyone had that sisterly, brotherly bond with a friend. I've had guys call me sister and I've called them brother. He was prolly singing about a "sister" cougar that took advantage of him as a young man. It's not about his actual blood sister sheesh give him a break. This is old.

I think the line "incest is everything it's said to be...." contradicts your point.

vman4639 said:

Angelic1302 said:

Come on! Everyone had that sisterly, brotherly bond with a friend. I've had guys call me sister and I've called them brother. He was prolly singing about a "sister" cougar that took advantage of him as a young man. It's not about his actual blood sister sheesh give him a break. This is old.

I think the line "incest is everything it's said to be...." contradicts your point.

The line suggests he wanted people to think he's talking about a real sister. But as a comment on incest, it's meaningless. Yes, incest is said to be a bad thing (which is why there are laws against it, at least in some contexts). But it's also said to be pleasurable for some of those who engage in it, even if they feel guilty about the pleasure. Also, other societies have had different attitudes about incest: for example, it was common among the ancient Egyptian pharaohs. Only Prince knows what he meant by that line, but my best guess is that he spent about 2 minutes thinking about it and mainly wanted to shock people.

That song was not biographical.

It may be true that he was molested . That isn't the only song he talks about abuse. He talks about physical abuse in the song "Papa" from the "Come" album , " don't abuse children, or else they'll turn out like me " . And he's awfully shy and standoffish like a victim of some sort of abuse .

kae510 said:

It may be true that he was molested . That isn't the only song he talks about abuse. He talks about physical abuse in the song "Papa" from the "Come" album , " don't abuse children, or else they'll turn out like me " . And he's awfully shy and standoffish like a victim of some sort of abuse .

Hmmm.......I think that there is truth to this song. When I look at the tone of it & some of the similarities to his life at that time.....but hey, it Could just be shock value. I mean, Eminem has raped his own mother many times in his lyrics.....

It just occurred to me that the woman in the song seems to have been committing incest with more than one person:

She only wanted 2 turn me out
She'd take a whip 2 me until I shout
Oh motherfucker, she's a motherfucker, can't U understand?

The more I listen to it, the more it strikes me as a silly song written to get people's attention. If Prince really did have sex with his sister and wrote a song about it, I don't think he would have released it, and certainly not when his career was just beginning. He changed the lyrics to "Old Friends 4 Sale" to make it completely impersonal, and that song was just about some problems that a lot of stars probably had.

electricberet said:

It just occurred to me that the woman in the song seems to have been committing incest with more than one person:

She only wanted 2 turn me out
She'd take a whip 2 me until I shout
Oh motherfucker, she's a motherfucker, can't U understand?

The more I listen to it, the more it strikes me as a silly song written to get people's attention. If Prince really did have sex with his sister and wrote a song about it, I don't think he would have released it, and certainly not when his career was just beginning. He changed the lyrics to "Old Friends 4 Sale" to make it completely impersonal, and that song was just about some problems that a lot of stars probably had.

But by the time "OF4S" was written, Prince had already became a mega star. He didn't have to be controversial at that time. He was still on the rise when "Dirty Mind" came out. So if that song is based off truth, just because he was trying to be "dirty" he could have easily it covered up later as trying to be controversial.....pretty much what people are saying is that Prince was Lil B before Lil B [Lil B is planning on caling his new album "I'm Gay" btw]

Oddly enough, I always heard the line as "Motherfucker, she's a brotherfucker, can't you understand." Which makes it very funny.

It's a nasty classic.

lovecomequick said:

I love this song and have done always. But, what I have to contribute, or partially at least, is that about two months ago, I bought, in an op-shop for 20 cents, a still packaged in plastic magazine, called 'Musician Magazine' from 1983, with Prince on the front cover and the main article being 'PRINCE TALKS: Tales From Andre's Basement and Beyond' or something like that. In the interview he gets asked whether or not Sister is true and he says "Yeah, that one's true." You'll have to forgive me, the magazine is at my parents home. I'm away finishing uni at the moment, but when I get back (next week) I will dig it out and quote you something word for word. That said, just cause he said it's true...doesn't really mean anything at all. But still, there you go

Oh, please do! If you can copy & post it, that would be dope as well. If not, I still wanna know...Thanks

it seems i was making a bit of what i thought it said up in my head.

but here's what he says. it clarifies nothing other than that it's not a joke.

"MUSICIAN: Are songs like "Head" and "Sister" serious or satiric?

PRINCE: "Sister" is serious. "Head" could be taken as satire. No one's laughing when I'm saying it so I don't know. If people get enjoyment out of it and laugh, that's fine. All the stuff on the record is true experiences and things that have occurred around me and the way I feel about things. I wasn't laughing when I did it. So I don't suppose it's intended that way.

That's why I stopped doing interviews. I started and I stopped abruptly because of that. People weren't taking me seriously and I was being misunderstood. Everything I said they didn't believe anyway. They didn't believe my name. They didn't believe anything."

I don't have a working scanner at the moment, but I'll scan the interview interview on someday. It covers 8 pages and being all pre-Purple Rain it's a really cool insight I think.

Peace x

lovecomequick said:

it seems i was making a bit of what i thought it said up in my head.

but here's what he says. it clarifies nothing other than that it's not a joke.

"MUSICIAN: Are songs like "Head" and "Sister" serious or satiric?

PRINCE: "Sister" is serious. "Head" could be taken as satire. No one's laughing when I'm saying it so I don't know. If people get enjoyment out of it and laugh, that's fine. All the stuff on the record is true experiences and things that have occurred around me and the way I feel about things. I wasn't laughing when I did it. So I don't suppose it's intended that way.

That's why I stopped doing interviews. I started and I stopped abruptly because of that. People weren't taking me seriously and I was being misunderstood. Everything I said they didn't believe anyway. They didn't believe my name. They didn't believe anything."

I don't have a working scanner at the moment, but I'll scan the interview interview on someday. It covers 8 pages and being all pre-Purple Rain it's a really cool insight I think.

Peace x

Yes, that interview is also in DMSR by Per Nilsen.

He said the whole Dirty Mind album subject matter was not made up.

Sister is one of my favourite P songs, mostly because the shock value and the boldness to actually release a song like that, as well as the lyrics.

I'd really love to read that book. I've looked about for it a lot but never found it. Sister is a great song. I love it. I love how it's just, not quite straight played. It has a peculiar little syncopation to it, and like, clean tone punk is VERY groovy.

lovecomequick said:

it seems i was making a bit of what i thought it said up in my head.

but here's what he says. it clarifies nothing other than that it's not a joke.

"MUSICIAN: Are songs like "Head" and "Sister" serious or satiric?

PRINCE: "Sister" is serious. "Head" could be taken as satire. No one's laughing when I'm saying it so I don't know. If people get enjoyment out of it and laugh, that's fine. All the stuff on the record is true experiences and things that have occurred around me and the way I feel about things. I wasn't laughing when I did it. So I don't suppose it's intended that way.

That's why I stopped doing interviews. I started and I stopped abruptly because of that. People weren't taking me seriously and I was being misunderstood. Everything I said they didn't believe anyway. They didn't believe my name. They didn't believe anything."

I don't have a working scanner at the moment, but I'll scan the interview interview on someday. It covers 8 pages and being all pre-Purple Rain it's a really cool insight I think.

Peace x

Interesting but I can see how someone can misunderstood what Prince was saying in that particular song.

And if it's indeed real then I'll take back what I said then.

Spinlight said:

madhouseman said:

Here is what Prince had to say about it and HEAD:

“Sister” is serious. “Head” could be taken as a satire. No one’s laughing when I ‘m saying it, so I don’t know. If people get enjoyment out of it and laugh, that’s fine. All the stuff on the record is true experiences and things that have occurred around me and the way I feel about things. I wasn’t laughing when I did it. So I don’t suppose it was intended that way.”

Prince, Musician Magazine (Sept. 1983)

I don't buy that he is explicitly stating he had sex with his sister with this comment. I feel he is saying that his songs, at the time, have direct connections to how he feels about things and that that interpretation is entirely personal (and it may or may not hold any water).

The fact of the matter is Prince used to lie A LOT between the years of 1978 and... Well forever. He lies a lot. Around the time of this interview, he also stated he wasn't black, that he was about 3-4 years younger than he was, etc.

Prince didn't fuck any of his siblings.

LOL. It's funny 'cause it's true.

SagsWay2low said:

Judging from the way Prince kissed Appolonia in Purple Rain, I'd say much of sexual conquest songs in his early years was fiction and fantasy.

So for real, did Prince ever live with his sister?

Tremolina said:

So for real, did Prince ever live with his sister?

[Edited 5/22/11 14:32pm]

"I was only 16 but I guess that's no excuse

My sister was 32, lovely and loose"

Does Prince have a sister that is 16 years older than him????

[Edited 5/22/11 12:23pm]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

electricberet said:

I agree. Also, the lyrics of "Sister" aren't just about incest, they're about child sexual abuse (a much older woman taking advantage of a teenager). I think that if Prince were going to write a sincere song about that subject based on personal experience, it would sound more like "Papa" from the Come album, dark and frightening. "Sister" is a strangely upbeat song given the subject matter, which suggests his main goal was to shock people.

the upbeat music may be used to express the conflict of being sexually abused. One of the biggest issues for some victims is the guilt because it often feels good. Great even. So the sometimes the victim believes they are in part to blame for the abuse. "I liked it so it must be my fault." Also some abuse victims will often start to initiate the encounters.

OMG! Have u been reading my diary?

Tremolina said:

So for real, did Prince ever live with his sister?

Yes, i read in DMSR or Slave to the Rhythm...can't remember which....that he stayed with his sister in New York when he was about 16/17/18, when trying to hawk his wares around record companies / WB.

It was his step sister not a direct blood relative as far as I remember, but this doesn't mean its necessarily autobiographical.

[Edited 5/22/11 14:45pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Tremolina said:

So for real, did Prince ever live with his sister?

Yes, i read in DMSR or Slave to the Rhythm...can't remember which....that he stayed with his sister in New York when he was about 17, when trying to hawk around WB.

It was his step sister not a direct blood relative as far as I remember, but this doesn't mean its necessarily autobiographical.

Interesting.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Tremolina said:

So for real, did Prince ever live with his sister?

Yes, i read in DMSR or Slave to the Rhythm...can't remember which....that he stayed with his sister in New York when he was about 16/17/18, when trying to hawk his wares around record companies / WB.

It was his step sister not a direct blood relative as far as I remember, but this doesn't mean its necessarily autobiographical.

[Edited 5/22/11 14:45pm]

Not completely, but partially at least.

Someone mentioned that it must have been hard for Prince at 16 to wander from 'home' to 'home', with no money, perhabs sometimes even hungry, looking for his big breakthrough.

Easy to take advantage of.

Not saying all that is true, but if he did actually live with his (step)sister at that time, at least that much is true.

prince had his sister & good 4 him!! why not!

He's a songwriter, so it could've come from reality or fiction, but I think if he ever did an interview now and discussed his old songs, he might be forthcoming about it. I think most songwriters like to keep where they got the ideas from so you can form your own opinion about it, unless they are way off the mark and need to correct it.

It's kind of like "American Psycho"... did Bateman actually do those horrific things, or was it all in his mind?

And just because he said it in an interview years ago doesn't mean he was telling the truth. Dylan made up a ton of stories.

Sorry, but on points such as this; I try to stay in my own lane and not in Prince's......However, here is a thought....sister is just a sistah