I've always wondered this.....Could there be any truth to this track off of 'Dirty Mind', or was Prince just being a perv? Could he have been selling his ass in the streets after he ran away from home for $? Was incest really a factor? Please lend your thoughts on this touchy subject....

gunner82 said:

I've always wondered this.....Could there be any truth to this track off of 'Dirty Mind', or was Prince just being a perv? Could he have been selling his ass in the streets after he ran away from home for $? Was incest really a factor? Please lend your thoughts on this touchy subject....

The story that I've heard is that he wrote the song to get even with a female relative (possibly a stepsister) who kicked him out of the house at one point. I don't think the song was based on personal experience any more than "Head" was about an actual encounter he had with a bride-to-be on her wedding day. But perhaps others can elaborate.

electricberet said:

gunner82 said:

I've always wondered this.....Could there be any truth to this track off of 'Dirty Mind', or was Prince just being a perv? Could he have been selling his ass in the streets after he ran away from home for $? Was incest really a factor? Please lend your thoughts on this touchy subject....

The story that I've heard is that he wrote the song to get even with a female relative (possibly a stepsister) who kicked him out of the house at one point. I don't think the song was based on personal experience any more than "Head" was about an actual encounter he had with a bride-to-be on her wedding day. But perhaps others can elaborate.

What would make you think 'Head' or this song isn't based on fact? I'm saying this because I'm sure Prince wouldn't really want to talk about it, but sing about it is a whole other thing.....he's written quite a few songs about real stuff....

gunner82 said:

electricberet said:

The story that I've heard is that he wrote the song to get even with a female relative (possibly a stepsister) who kicked him out of the house at one point. I don't think the song was based on personal experience any more than "Head" was about an actual encounter he had with a bride-to-be on her wedding day. But perhaps others can elaborate.

What would make you think 'Head' or this song isn't based on fact? I'm saying this because I'm sure Prince wouldn't really want to talk about it, but sing about it is a whole other thing.....he's written quite a few songs about real stuff....

I think the songs may draw on personal experiences, but I don't think either sounds like a plausible story of something that really happened. "Head" in particular sounds like one of those old letters from Penthouse magazine that play on the fantasies of teenage boys. In the end the woman marries him instead, and obviously that part never happened. But it's extremely funky and I love it anyway. For me, the B-side of "Dirty Mind" is where Prince really made his biggest shift toward a new sound. The A-side isn't so different from the previous album and his work with the Rebels.

the thing to keep in mind about the song sister is it is NOT pro-incest. The person is conflicted at having been victimized by an adult family member.

but fact or fiction: when prince was about 16 he lived with his sister who was about 32 in New York while he was trying to get a record deal. So the could be something to it.

[Edited 4/26/11 7:24am]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the thing to keep in mind about the song sister is it is NOT pro-incest. The person is conflicted at having been victimized by an adult family member.

but fact or fiction: when prince was about 16 he lived with his sister who was about 32 in New York while he was trying to get a record deal. So the could be something to it.

[Edited 4/26/11 7:24am]

I agree that the song is not pro-incest, and that it could have something to do with an actual person. But it is just as possible that he made the story up to piss her off as it is that he really did have sex with her.

gunner82 said:

electricberet said:

The story that I've heard is that he wrote the song to get even with a female relative (possibly a stepsister) who kicked him out of the house at one point. I don't think the song was based on personal experience any more than "Head" was about an actual encounter he had with a bride-to-be on her wedding day. But perhaps others can elaborate.

What would make you think 'Head' or this song isn't based on fact? I'm saying this because I'm sure Prince wouldn't really want to talk about it, but sing about it is a whole other thing.....he's written quite a few songs about real stuff....

Also, if you want an example of a song where Prince made up a ridiculous story to piss someone off, listen to Bob George. I guess it's possible that one of Prince's managers was seeing a woman who had a controlling husband or boyfriend who eventually went on a shooting spree that involved police helicopters. But I think we would have heard about that if it happened.

To me, Dirty Mind is exactly that - a collection of work based on thoughts and fantasies that emerged for various reasons from Prince's "dirty" mind.

Perhaps he was having lunch somewhere and saw a bride coming out of a beauty salon or hotel or similar on her way to her car to (presumably) take her to her wedding, and the idea of what could have transpired was born.

Similarly, perhaps in the time that he was living with his sister, his mind wandered (or she said something, or he said something, or someone - not realising their connection - made an inappropriate comment one day, etc.. etc...) and again, the idea of what could have transpired was born.

Perhaps there were reasons beyond that (eg. revenge) for it actually getting released, or perhaps he just figured, "a good song is a good song" - or, most likely, he was taking advantage of the shock value.

Regardless, I think there is always the possibility of truth hiding in any artist's song, but more often than not, I suspect the inspiration comes from a huge pile of "what if" scenarios that sprout from far more ordinary beginnings.

[Edited 4/26/11 7:41am]

Chiquetet said:

To me, Dirty Mind is exactly that - a collection of work based on thoughts and fantasies that emerged for various reasons from Prince's "dirty" mind.

Perhaps he was having lunch somewhere and saw a bride coming out of a beauty salon or hotel or similar on her way to her car to (presumably) take her to her wedding, and the idea of what could have transpired was born.

Similarly, perhaps in the time that he was living with his sister, his mind wandered (or she said something, or he said something, or someone - not realising their connection - made an inappropriate comment one day, etc.. etc...) and again, the idea of what could have transpired was born.

Perhaps there were reasons beyond that (eg. revenge) for it actually getting released, or perhaps he just figured, "a good song is a good song" - or, most likely, he was taking advantage of the shock value.

Regardless, I think there is always the possibility of truth hiding in any artist's song, but more often than not, I suspect the inspiration comes from a huge pile of "what if" scenarios that sprout from far more ordinary beginnings.

I agree. Also, the lyrics of "Sister" aren't just about incest, they're about child sexual abuse (a much older woman taking advantage of a teenager). I think that if Prince were going to write a sincere song about that subject based on personal experience, it would sound more like "Papa" from the Come album, dark and frightening. "Sister" is a strangely upbeat song given the subject matter, which suggests his main goal was to shock people.

electricberet said:

I agree. Also, the lyrics of "Sister" aren't just about incest, they're about child sexual abuse (a much older woman taking advantage of a teenager). I think that if Prince were going to write a sincere song about that subject based on personal experience, it would sound more like "Papa" from the Come album, dark and frightening. "Sister" is a strangely upbeat song given the subject matter, which suggests his main goal was to shock people.

the upbeat music may be used to express the conflict of being sexually abused. One of the biggest issues for some victims is the guilt because it often feels good. Great even. So the sometimes the victim believes they are in part to blame for the abuse. "I liked it so it must be my fault." Also some abuse victims will often start to initiate the encounters.

Come on! Everyone had that sisterly, brotherly bond with a friend. I've had guys call me sister and I've called them brother. He was prolly singing about a "sister" cougar that took advantage of him as a young man. It's not about his actual blood sister sheesh give him a break. This is old.

electricberet said:

I agree. Also, the lyrics of "Sister" aren't just about incest, they're about child sexual abuse (a much older woman taking advantage of a teenager). I think that if Prince were going to write a sincere song about that subject based on personal experience, it would sound more like "Papa" from the Come album, dark and frightening. "Sister" is a strangely upbeat song given the subject matter, which suggests his main goal was to shock people.

Papa is a good contrasting example.

That said, it was written over a decade after Sister. A potential counter-arguement was that Prince wasn't in a space emotionally to deal with a potential incident in a more serious, reflective manner, so instead threw it into a somewhat conflicted, upbeat song - not an uncommon reaction (ie. equivalent to people who make light of intense personal situations before they're ready to deal with them)

I personally don't think that's the case with Sister, mainly because I do think the whole theme of the album is around fantasies and imaginary scenarios, but I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that something did happen.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

electricberet said:

I agree. Also, the lyrics of "Sister" aren't just about incest, they're about child sexual abuse (a much older woman taking advantage of a teenager). I think that if Prince were going to write a sincere song about that subject based on personal experience, it would sound more like "Papa" from the Come album, dark and frightening. "Sister" is a strangely upbeat song given the subject matter, which suggests his main goal was to shock people.

the upbeat music may be used to express the conflict of being sexually abused. One of the biggest issues for some victims is the guilt because it often feels good. Great even. So the sometimes the victim believes they are in part to blame for the abuse. "I liked it so it must be my fault." Also some abuse victims will often start to initiate the encounters.

Maybe. It just always struck me as kind of a tossoff song to deal with such an intensely personal subject. It takes some abuse victims decades to feel comfortable revealing what happened, and some never do. In "Sister," Prince seems to be more upset that she kicked him out than anything else. I doubt Prince was ready at that point in his career to get so personal in his music.

Fact AND Fiction... there's always some truth

if he was my brother i'd fuck him also

Pretty sure he wrote it for shock value alone but, if we must, I think the entire song hangs on

'incest is everything it's said to be'

i.e. terrible.

Great tune though.

jaawwnn said:

Pretty sure he wrote it for shock value alone but, if we must, I think the entire song hangs on

'incest is everything it's said to be'

i.e. terrible.

Great tune though.

Another way of looking at that line is that Prince has no personal experience of incest, other than whatever weird fantasies he might have had at that point, thus the best comment he make is that it's "everything it's said to be."

[Edited 4/26/11 9:33am]

True. He does like his weird fantasies. In fact, that's a lot more likely to be the case than anything subtle.

Song not about Tyka or the sister he lived w/in New York, per the horses mouth he wrote that song because he thought one of his sister was so beautiful & pretty. I know the words seems strange to discribe beauty but that's how he saw it.

LOVEVERY1 said:

Song not about Tyka or the sister he lived w/in New York, per the horses mouth he wrote that song because he thought one of his sister was so beautiful & pretty. I know the words seems strange to discribe beauty but that's how he saw it.

source? or at least the approximate time he said that?

OnlyNDaUsa said:

electricberet said:

I agree. Also, the lyrics of "Sister" aren't just about incest, they're about child sexual abuse (a much older woman taking advantage of a teenager). I think that if Prince were going to write a sincere song about that subject based on personal experience, it would sound more like "Papa" from the Come album, dark and frightening. "Sister" is a strangely upbeat song given the subject matter, which suggests his main goal was to shock people.

the upbeat music may be used to express the conflict of being sexually abused. One of the biggest issues for some victims is the guilt because it often feels good. Great even. So the sometimes the victim believes they are in part to blame for the abuse. "I liked it so it must be my fault." Also some abuse victims will often start to initiate the encounters.

And a lot of time boys deal with these kinds of sexual situations different.

at least from a M2F perspective. For a 16 yr old to hook up with a pretty 25 or 35 year old woman wouldn't always be seen by the boy(s) as abuse.

I could tell stories of people in those teen years. We lived next door to a family mother, older sister younger brother and she was sexually active. And it was nothing for him to sneak peaks thru the door or window to watch her have sex. (maybe he was trying to see the guy, maybe just the act, maybe his sister) I'll never know

I want to add something:

if you knew a child that could play the piano, would it not be a logical assumption that he had lessons?

same goes with a child that is overly sexual at a young age.

Prince was delving into New Wave which is a music/sub culture, shock like this and underground issues and situations were very common place that musical genre

...

"angry, intelligent" singer-songwriters who "approached pop music with the sardonic attitude and tense, aggressive energy

the music had a twitchy, agitated feel to it. New Wave musicians often played choppy rhythm guitars with fast tempos. Keyboards were common as were stop-and-start song structures and melodies. Reynolds noted that New Wave vocalists sounded high-pitched, geeky and suburban.

Later still, "New Wave" came to imply a less noisy, often synthesizer-based, pop sound. The term post-punk was coined to describe groups such as Gang of Four, Joy Division, The Cure, and Siouxsie and the Banshees that were initially considered part of the New Wave but were more ambitious, serious and challenging, darker, and less pop oriented. Some of these groups would later adopt synths.Although distinct, punk, New Wave, and post-punk all shared common ground: an energetic reaction to the supposedly overproduced, uninspired popular music of the 1970s

gender-bending synthpop acts with a cool, detached stage presence.

Unlike other genres, race was not a factor in the popularity of New Wave music according to the poll.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I want to add something:

if you knew a child that could play the piano, would it not be a logical assumption that he had lessons?

same goes with a child that is overly sexual at a young age.

This is true, but it depends

In preschool I was drawing real hands when kids were being taught to draw stick figure hands. I had no teaching.

Sometimes kids see things on tv that they shouldn't.

But yes a child that is overly sexual most likely has been exposed to sex by an teen/adult or by another child who has been molested/abused.

OldFriends4Sale said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the upbeat music may be used to express the conflict of being sexually abused. One of the biggest issues for some victims is the guilt because it often feels good. Great even. So the sometimes the victim believes they are in part to blame for the abuse. "I liked it so it must be my fault." Also some abuse victims will often start to initiate the encounters.

And a lot of time boys deal with these kinds of sexual situations different.

at least from a M2F perspective. For a 16 yr old to hook up with a pretty 25 or 35 year old woman wouldn't always be seen by the boy(s) as abuse.

I could tell stories of people in those teen years. We lived next door to a family mother, older sister younger brother and she was sexually active. And it was nothing for him to sneak peaks thru the door or window to watch her have sex. (maybe he was trying to see the guy, maybe just the act, maybe his sister) I'll never know

There's a huge difference between watching a sibling have sex and actually having sex with your sibling. Also, there's a difference between having sex with a sibling who is close to your own age and having sex with a sibling who is much older.

Nobody knows what happened except Prince and whatever sister was involved, if there really was a sister involved and if something actually happened. Anyone who asked Prince about it would probably never get to ask Prince another question again, and even if he answered it wouldn't be a straight answer. So it comes down to what you personally hear in the song. I hear a young man with a dirty mind who, for whatever reason, thought it would be cool to write a song about having sex with an older sister.

According to Tyka it had nothing to do with incest...P was jus being crazy.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I want to add something:

if you knew a child that could play the piano, would it not be a logical assumption that he had lessons?

same goes with a child that is overly sexual at a young age.

I bet there were all kinds of girls and women giving Prince "lessons" from an early age. Just look at how many women today are drooling over him, and he's an old man that they've never even met.

Sister

I was only 16 but I guess that's no excuse
My sister was 32, lovely and loose
She don't wear no underwear
She said it only gets in her hair
And it's got a funny way of stoppin' the juice

My sister never made love 2 anyone else but me
She's the reason 4 my, uh, sexuality
She showed me where it's supposed 2 go
A blowjob doesn't mean blow
Incest is everything it's said 2 be

Oh sister - don't put me on the street again
Oh sister - I just wanna be your friend

I was only 16 and only half a man
My sister didn't give a goddamn
She only wanted 2 turn me out
She'd take a whip 2 me until I shout
Oh motherfucker, she's a motherfucker, can't U understand?

Oh sister - don't put me on the street again
Oh sister - I just wanna be your friend

I know what U want me 2 do
Put me on the street and make me blue

Oh sister!
Oh sister!
Oh!

Ya know, he never actually states that by the term 'sister' he means sibling.

Edit: Aside from the incest comment, I mean, which is said in what sounds like a tongue in cheek way.

[Edited 4/26/11 10:45am]

electricberet said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

And a lot of time boys deal with these kinds of sexual situations different.

at least from a M2F perspective. For a 16 yr old to hook up with a pretty 25 or 35 year old woman wouldn't always be seen by the boy(s) as abuse.

I could tell stories of people in those teen years. We lived next door to a family mother, older sister younger brother and she was sexually active. And it was nothing for him to sneak peaks thru the door or window to watch her have sex. (maybe he was trying to see the guy, maybe just the act, maybe his sister) I'll never know

There's a huge difference between watching a sibling have sex and actually having sex with your sibling. Also, there's a difference between having sex with a sibling who is close to your own age and having sex with a sibling who is much older.

Nobody knows what happened except Prince and whatever sister was involved, if there really was a sister involved and if something actually happened. Anyone who asked Prince about it would probably never get to ask Prince another question again, and even if he answered it wouldn't be a straight answer. So it comes down to what you personally hear in the song. I hear a young man with a dirty mind who, for whatever reason, thought it would be cool to write a song about having sex with an older sister.

Trust me, I know there is a huge difference. But I would not have even gone to the length of watching. I was just saying, for me that would have been seriously crossing a line. Generally it starts with a thought & or a visual.

There might be a difference, I seriously don't know. But I wouldn't know how to judge the difference in finding out my son had sex with his twin sister vs his sister who is 3-10 yrs older.

I agree he probably wouldn't give a straight answer but I don't think from reading things about those earlier years that this song is true.