jackson35 said:

everybody keeps talking about how diverese prince is with his music, but in the long run this diverse style of music didnt help him to sell a whole lot of records or increase his fan base. roger troutman is just as diverse as prince is. what do you guys think funk music is? a mixture of styles of music. prince booted roger off the controversy tour because he was making him work too hard on the stage right after he wreck it.

prince record sales are very very good for someone who is as experimental as he has been. The public rewards predictability. Prince is a genius and roger really doesnt match his versatility. Britney spears has sold a 100 million records, so what? Sheila e is ten times the musician that britney could ever be. Sales mean nothing except to those who are uninformed when it comes to music

And Prince's fan base is excellent. Thats why he sells out tours anywhere without being with a major label. Thats why he has multiple fan sites dedicated to him even now

hhhhdmt said:

jackson35 said:

everybody keeps talking about how diverese prince is with his music, but in the long run this diverse style of music didnt help him to sell a whole lot of records or increase his fan base. roger troutman is just as diverse as prince is. what do you guys think funk music is? a mixture of styles of music. prince booted roger off the controversy tour because he was making him work too hard on the stage right after he wreck it.

prince record sales are very very good for someone who is as experimental as he has been. The public rewards predictability. Prince is a genius and roger really doesnt match his versatility. Britney spears has sold a 100 million records, so what? Sheila e is ten times the musician that britney could ever be. Sales mean nothing except to those who are uninformed when it comes to music

And Prince's fan base is excellent. Thats why he sells out tours anywhere without being with a major label. Thats why he has multiple fan sites dedicated to him even now

Mj fan,................need I say more?

Graycap23 said:

hhhhdmt said:

prince record sales are very very good for someone who is as experimental as he has been. The public rewards predictability. Prince is a genius and roger really doesnt match his versatility. Britney spears has sold a 100 million records, so what? Sheila e is ten times the musician that britney could ever be. Sales mean nothing except to those who are uninformed when it comes to music

And Prince's fan base is excellent. Thats why he sells out tours anywhere without being with a major label. Thats why he has multiple fan sites dedicated to him even now

Mj fan,................need I say more?

Uh bruh there's a difference between a fan and a lurker. Even I as a fan of Michael (and Prince) can see Prince can still sell tours and records (when he wants to on the latter).

[Edited 4/19/11 11:42am]

[Edited 4/19/11 11:43am]

savvy said: Dale Groat, Shirley Murdock,

Dale and Shirley are or were hubby & wife. Around 1985 Roger introduced the New Zapp (hence the album-title) including some new recruits

such as Shirley, Dale, Aaron Blackmon, Robert "Kuumba" Jones, Bart Thomas (New Horizons), the late P-Funk legend StingRay Davis and

Roger's late son, Roger Troutman II, a.k.a. "Lynch". Former Zapp-members went other ways, such as Bobby Glover who released a solo-album

around 1984 and one of their other female-divas, Jeanetta Boyce from who i'm unfamiliar with if she continued in the music biz.

Roger explained in interviews around the "New Zapp IV U"-era that he tried to experience with other musicians and new sounds from which the

Minneapolis sound was indeed clearly recognizable. Another MNPLS-example is the track "Can We Touch" on the "Cosmic Round Up"-album released

around 1985 on Elektra by Zapp-proteges, The Human Body. "Can We Touch" used to be on youtube but the track can currently be found on 4shared.

StingRay and Dale were both in the third formation of The Human Body around 1985, and i think that Gregory Jackson

was another member. The 1rst Human Body was basically a pre-Zapp group with Roger & his bros, around the 70's.

Second formation from 1984 included StingRay, Larry Hatcher and Ohio Player's synth-cat, the great Billy Beck.

[Edited 4/19/11 12:45pm]

Militant said:

purplenuts said:

Really? Jackson choosing Roger would only mean something in this argument if PRince was available for the job - which we all can safely assume Prince would not take that job and Jackson knew beter than to offer.

Most people in the world are not going to place ROger over PRince in anything - not in the real world. It comes down to opinion, I suppose. Of course, someone can always argue anything that is not real.

I don't know.... Prince DID offer to play guitar on "We Are The World", and he also offered "Wouldn't You Love to Love Me?" for inclusion on Bad. I don't really see any reason that Prince would have declined to play guitar on an MJ song had he been asked.

Of course most people in the world wouldn't place Roger over Prince because Prince is infinitely more popular than Roger. But does that mean anything? I can find you a million people right now that would say Justin Bieber is a better artist than Prince - does that make it true? People who are musically educated know better.

And people who are musically educated with regards to funk KNOW that asking whose more talented is at the least a VALID question because Roger was phenomenally talented. Remember, that's the question being asked here - not "who displayed more talent on their records" or "who is more famous" or "who would more people say is better". None of those are the questions being asked. Remember that growing up, Prince and Andre Cymone were neck-and-neck in musical talent. Did Prince become infinitely more succesful than Andre because he was more talented - or because he was more driven and motivated?

Again - when it comes down to it, I'd take Prince over Roger, too. Based on more range, more incredible output, etc. But I wouldn't be so quick to shoot down this topic just because "most people in the world" would say Prince. That's not relevant to who is more talented. And like I said - Roger was one hell of a talented cat, and his impact - ESPECIALLY in hip-hop is incredibly significant.

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

Mj fan,................need I say more?

Uh bruh there's a difference between a fan and a lurker. Even I as a fan of Michael (and Prince) can see Prince can still sell tours and records (when he wants to on the latter).

[Edited 4/19/11 11:42am]

[Edited 4/19/11 11:43am]

I'm talking about someone even mentioning sales. Sales don't have anything 2 do with the quality of an artist. Just look at 2day's charts.

I would not listen 2 most of that stuff if it were free...........oops it is free and I still don't listen 2 it.

Graycap23 said:

Timmy84 said:

Uh bruh there's a difference between a fan and a lurker. Even I as a fan of Michael (and Prince) can see Prince can still sell tours and records (when he wants to on the latter).

[Edited 4/19/11 11:42am]

[Edited 4/19/11 11:43am]

I'm talking about someone even mentioning sales. Sales don't have anything 2 do with the quality of an artist. Just look at 2day's charts.

I would not listen 2 most of that stuff if it were free...........oops it is free and I still don't listen 2 it.

That's because some people who talk about sales don't know a thing or two about music. So why even take that seriously?

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

I'm talking about someone even mentioning sales. Sales don't have anything 2 do with the quality of an artist. Just look at 2day's charts.

I would not listen 2 most of that stuff if it were free...........oops it is free and I still don't listen 2 it.

That's because some people who talk about sales don't know a thing or two about music. So why even take that seriously?

I don't.

Shango said:

savvy said: Dale Groat, Shirley Murdock,

Dale and Shirley are or were hubby & wife. Around 1985 Roger introduced the New Zapp (hence the album-title) including some new recruits

such as Shirley, Dale, Aaron Blackmon, Robert "Kuumba" Jones, Bart Thomas (New Horizons), the late P-Funk legend Stingray Davis and

Roger's late son, Roger Troutman II, a.k.a "Lynch". Former Zapp-members went other ways, such as Bobby Glover who released a solo-album

around 1984 and one of their other female-divas, Jeanetta Boyce from who i'm unfamiliar with if she continued in the music biz.

Roger explained in interviews around the "New Zapp IV U"-era that he tried to experience with other musicians and new sounds from which the

Minneapolis sound was indeed clearly recognizable. Another MNPLS-example is the track "Can We Touch" on the "Cosmic Roundup"-album released

around 1985 on Elektra by Zapp-proteges, The Human Body. "Can We Touch" used to be on youtube but the track can currently be found on 4shared.

Dale and Stingray were together part of the third formation of The Human Body arund 1985, and i think that Gregory

Jackson was the thrid member.The 1rst Human Body was basically a pre-Zapp group with Roger & his bros, around the 70's.

Second formation from 1984 included Stingray, Larry Hatcher and Ohio Player's synth-cat, the great Billy Beck.

[Edited 4/19/11 12:21pm]

She is from my hometown and I knew her before she moved to Dayton. She was a great singer at church and a very nice lady.

prodigalfan said: She is from my hometown and I knew her before she moved to Dayton. She was a great singer at church and a very nice lady.

Cool ... You ever met her in person ? I saw an interview-segment of her and she was great,

telling passionately about her experience of recording her first solo-album with Roger, insisting him to record a specific track.

And thanks to the online time capsule :

Roger goes bananas when Shirl The Pearl hits it off

[Edited 4/19/11 13:10pm]

Great footage.

Timmy84 said:

Great footage.

absolutely sir ! ... would've liked seeing the camera some more on Shirley belting out though

jackson35 said:

everybody keeps talking about how diverese prince is with his music, but in the long run this diverse style of music didnt help him to sell a whole lot of records or increase his fan base. roger troutman is just as diverse as prince is. what do you guys think funk music is? a mixture of styles of music. prince booted roger off the controversy tour because he was making him work too hard on the stage right after he wreck it.

WTF .. ....prince is one of the biggest selling artists of all time ?....he is in the top 40 list of most albums sold worldwide...in spite of him leaving warners 15 years ago and not always being commercial..i admit i dont know much about roger troutman but lets not talk utter bollocks here please...

.

.

newsflash= prince is not the only artist in this buisness that can be vesatile with diffrent musical styles. roger is capable of doing whatever prince can do and better. i think roger and zapp made that point clear when thay kick his ass on the controversy tour.

if you really believe that roger was better than prince or that he can do just as many or more styles, then you need help. Since you are an MJ fan, there's little wonder that you're trying to constantly put prince down. Roger, as good as he was, simply cannot match prince's versatility, nor his overall discography. Take Prince's output between 1979-88 and roger's whole carrear and prince wins that and no roger wasnt "kicking his ass" on the controversy tour. Prince is easily more talented and this isnt really arguable.

i do like some of rogers songs and i admire his all round ability but this isnt very close.

if you really believe that roger could match prince's versatility, please name different songs which are good and show his range. I can do it for prince rather easily. Let's see you backing your claim up.

[Edited 4/19/11 18:46pm]

hhhhdmt said:

if you really believe that roger was better than prince or that he can do just as many or more styles, then you need help. Since you are an MJ fan, there's little wonder that you're trying to constantly put prince down. Roger, as good as he was, simply cannot match prince's versatility, nor his overall discography. Take Prince's output between 1979-88 and roger's whole carrear and prince wins that and no roger wasnt "kicking his ass" on the controversy tour. Prince is easily more talented and this isnt really arguable.

i do like some of rogers songs and i admire his all round ability but this isnt very close.

if you really believe that roger could match prince's versatility, please name different songs which are good and show his range. I can do it for prince rather easily. Let's see you backing your claim up.

[Edited 4/19/11 18:46pm]

i'm fan of any artist that makes good music. I just dont't think it' makes sense to say that prince is more versatile and more talented then roger troutman simply because you are a fan. i'm capable of being objective when having these discussion. i've worked with both artist on the touring circuit and i'm telling you that roger troutman can play anything put in front of him and play all kinds of music. If you listen to his music, you would known that mr troutman is no slouch. On the controversy tour, roger came out and played everything that was on stage and blew prince's fans away. This is why that fist zapp album shitted all over the controversy album when it came out, because of that kick ass live show opening for prince and the time.

why dont u give examples then? Name different songs that roger did, the particular genre they are in. Lets see if he can match princes versatility. And Controversy wasnt even close to Princes peak as a live artist. Lovesexy was

Like i said, Prince's output between 1979-88 is better and a higher level than rogers

Why the hell are they even compared?

Roger was great in his way and Prince is great in his.

I said "was" for Roger because, unfortunately, he's been dead for almost 12 years now.

Timmy84 said:

^ Why I'm raising red flags is you should know how people will react in this thread. Ain't rocket scientists that if you compare Prince with any musician who had multi-talented qualities, it's either gonna be criticized or people are gonna be all over it. Ain't harmed or nothing, that's just the way it is lol

Don't know who the hell he is so that confirms it. Prince wins.

Maytiana said:

You simply cannot deny the pure genius of these songs.

Roger could SHO NUFF THROW DOWN!

Militant said:

You're right. I also missed "I Can Make You Dance", "Slow & Easy", "You Should Be Mine", "Do It Roger" and a few other favorites, so here we are:

JAMMIN!

[Edited 4/19/11 22:10pm]

To all the people who keep asking who Roger is, use the same keyboard and computer you're currently on and type his name into to a search engine. If that's to hard, use the wonderful youtube links provided by Militant and catch up.

IMO, the reason this thread got so heated is because the two men are more similar than one would hear in their respective sounds. Each of them could play each other's music because they are top notch musicians who had the same musical influences. If you were old enough during the eighties to have listend to R&B radio, it would have been impossible not to have known about Roger, Zapp and his associates or the org's namesake. I'm not going to make a choice, they both are in my world.

Only those devoid of funk would ever discredit Mr.Troutman

minneapolisFunq said:

prince's success from 79 to 88 wasn't because of his talent alone. It has also to do with wb marketing and their money. the calabo with his band esp wendy and lisa. the staff that he had access to like susan rogers and david z who had the tedious tasks of cutting the music up to be more accessible to the public. and lets also not forget infamous drum machines that were all over prince's records that gave hin that pop flavor that allof you love so much. cuz without it he would sound like his r&b peers and he would have no appeal.

jackson35 said:

prince's success from 79 to 88 wasn't because of his talent alone. It has also to do with wb marketing and their money. the calabo with his band esp wendy and lisa. the staff that he had access to like susan rogers and david z who had the tedious tasks of cutting the music up to be more accessible to the public. and lets also not forget infamous drum machines that were all over prince's records that gave hin that pop flavor that allof you love so much. cuz without it he would sound like his r&b peers and he would have no appeal.

oh my, prince wrote 99 percent of his stuff by himself, not with wendy and lisa. So he used good producers/engineers, who doesnt? You are so biased, it isnt even funny. "he would have no appeal". Yeah sure, the guy who wrote one great song after the other, did so many genres so convingly would not no appeal whatsoever. No Prince would not sound like his rnb peers, he is far more talented than they ever were.

Prince's success from 1979-88 was mostly because of his talent. And he knew how to use the drum machines so credit goes to him for it. He mastered several instruments, he wrote most of his songs, he sang them, therefore he deserves most of the credit. Claiming Prince would have no appeal is comical