paisleypark4 said:

Graycap23 said:

Most folks are NOT on the level of creativity that Prince is.

Most folks don't really even understand who Prince as an artist and the man is still alive doing his thing.

I think it is not that, it is just they have been burned out by his internet fiascos that they tend to dislike everything he does, with a side of not doing what they think he should do. I remamber that interview he did recently with Peach and Black where he asked the interviewer what should he do with his music...if Prince sat with us face to face and asked us what we think he should do I dont know if any of us would be honest..nor would I like Prince to be his fans puppet.

If you mean on a creative and original basis as, let's say, asking fans face-to-face what he should do with his music creatively, that to me wouldn't be the original work or creativity of said artist , but more or less someone else's idea. It's like telling an artist to change his original piece of art he/she created to someone else's idea, which would become the actual work of another technically. If you're talking about asking his fans, what he should do with his music distribution-wise, then that's a completely different thing, seeing how there's so many different ways consumers receive their music today. Just my two cents.

[Edited 3/4/11 9:10am]

I have always liked this from the very 1st play on:

18 december 2008 on the american radiostation, LA Indie 103.1,

they played:

Crimson & Clover (I was like WOW!)

Colonized Mind (Even more WOW!)

Wall Of Berlin (OK)

4Ever (Nice)

I still consider Colonized Mind to be the greatest track on Lotus Flow3r.

2elijah said:

paisleypark4 said:

I think it is not that, it is just they have been burned out by his internet fiascos that they tend to dislike everything he does, with a side of not doing what they think he should do. I remamber that interview he did recently with Peach and Black where he asked the interviewer what should he do with his music...if Prince sat with us face to face and asked us what we think he should do I dont know if any of us would be honest..nor would I like Prince to be his fans puppet.

If you mean on a creative and original basis as, let's say, asking fans face-to-face what he should do with his music, on a creatively, that to me wouldn't be the original work or creativity of said artist , but more or less someone else's idea. It's like telling an artist to change his original piece of art he/she created to someone else's idea, which would become the actual work of another technically.

Thats what I meant, alot of people have ideas on what he should change with his music or do with it on here...

If you're talking about asking his fans, what he should do with his music distribution-wise, then that's a completely different thing, seeing how there's so many different ways consumers receive their music today. Just my two cents.

I know, seems like he just ignores it and does what he wants to anyway for the last 10 years...all we can do is throw together ideas...cant believe Lil Kim just set up a pay pal account and basically sold a gold record in a day. Its what you have to do as an artist to keep some type of control over your musical legacy...however because he isnt one of us and cannot see from the outside looking in; he cannot comrehend what it means to us for him to distribute his music in a more fashionable manner.

[Edited 3/4/11 8:30am]

paisleypark4 said:

2elijah said:

If you mean on a creative and original basis as, let's say, asking fans face-to-face what he should do with his music, on a creatively, that to me wouldn't be the original work or creativity of said artist , but more or less someone else's idea. It's like telling an artist to change his original piece of art he/she created to someone else's idea, which would become the actual work of another technically.

Thats what I meant, alot of people have ideas on what he should change with his music or do with it on here...

If you're talking about asking his fans, what he should do with his music distribution-wise, then that's a completely different thing, seeing how there's so many different ways consumers receive their music today. Just my two cents.

I know, seems like he just ignores it and does what he wants to anyway for the last 10 years...all we can do is throw together ideas...cant believe Lil Kim just set up a pay pal account and basically sold a gold record in a day. Its what you have to do as an artist to keep some type of control over your musical legacy...however because he isnt one of us and cannot see from the outside looking in; he cannot comrehend what it means to us for him to distribute his music in a more fashionable manner.

[Edited 3/4/11 8:30am]

That's amazing what Lil Kim did, if you're saying that paypal account she set up helped to turn one of her records gold. But then again when was the last time she released a song/album before that? Could that be the reason that record went basically gold because she hadn't put one out in a while and fans had been waiting a while for it? I'm not a fan of Lil Kim, but just wondering if that could have been the reason that record sold the way it did.

As many longtime or diehard fans are already aware, it seems Prince is worried about fans making bootlegs or downloading his music for free, but that seems to be a lot of musicians/artists concerns today, especially those who depend on their music to get their bread and butter. With technology changing everyday and new methods of distribution being part of it, musicians/artists have to find much, more creative ways of getting their music heard and sold. Seems to me the route he's going with doing live shows is working for him right now. Even the idea of giving it away along with a purchase of a publication (i.e. newspaper, magazine, etc.) or like back during Musicology, when you got a cd with the purchase of a ticket.

Seems more musicians/artists will be forced to do more live shows to make that extra money along with selling their music. I mean the internet may be a great place to sell their music and get it to fans faster, but it's also a catch 22 situation, whereas it has also opened the doors to filesharing music for free which of couse, takes away a large portion of an artist's "bread and butter", so to speak.

[Edited 3/4/11 13:51pm]

I get torn over songs like this.

On the one hand I like that Prince is thinking, even if I don't always agree, and that he might even stimulate a discussion such as this, where a song like Kiss won't really cause much debate.

But I don't like how these thought provoking ideas are not clear. In fact they seem intentionally confusing at times, like on The Rainbow Children. I like weird or riddled lyrics, but not when they are intended to make a statement about politics, society, religion, morality, etc. Unclear meanings should be left to your Starfish & Coffees and your I Am the Walruses

The grand statement shoud be made clear, like in Imagine, or even Purple Rain. Even when the lyric "purple rain" is confusing, the intent of the song is crystal clear. Colonized Mind is not so clear. I get the idea of the colonised mind, but not so much the specifics. Fir example I don't see how a child with no father is a "colonized mind." I see how a child might need a father, but it does not relate in my mind to the clearer message about a two-party system (illusion of choice, I totally agree), or even the record deal.

To me, Prince is trying to cover too much ground, here. Putting every wrong that he sees in society into one single idea, and I am not sure they all fit there.

2elijah said:

NDRU said:

I get torn over songs like this.

On the one hand I like that Prince is thinking, even if I don't always agree, and that he might even stimulate a discussion such as this, where a song like Kiss won't really cause much debate.

But I don't like how these thought provoking ideas are not clear. In fact they seem intentionally confusing at times, like on The Rainbow Children. I like weird or riddled lyrics, but not when they are intended to make a statement about politics, society, religion, morality, etc. Unclear meanings should be left to your Starfish & Coffees and your I Am the Walruses

The grand statement shoud be made clear, like in Imagine, or even Purple Rain. Even when the lyric "purple rain" is confusing, the intent of the song is crystal clear. Colonized Mind is not so clear. I get the idea of the colonised mind, but not so much the specifics. Fir example I don't see how a child with no father is a "colonized mind." I see how a child might need a father, but it does not relate in my mind to the clearer message about a two-party system (illusion of choice, I totally agree), or even the record deal.

To me, Prince is trying to cover too much ground, here. Putting every wrong that he sees in society into one single idea, and I am not sure they all fit there.

Prince likes 2 make folks think......4 themselves.

xlr8r said:

Loved it from day one.

Graycap23 said:

NDRU said:

I get torn over songs like this.

On the one hand I like that Prince is thinking, even if I don't always agree, and that he might even stimulate a discussion such as this, where a song like Kiss won't really cause much debate.

But I don't like how these thought provoking ideas are not clear. In fact they seem intentionally confusing at times, like on The Rainbow Children. I like weird or riddled lyrics, but not when they are intended to make a statement about politics, society, religion, morality, etc. Unclear meanings should be left to your Starfish & Coffees and your I Am the Walruses

The grand statement shoud be made clear, like in Imagine, or even Purple Rain. Even when the lyric "purple rain" is confusing, the intent of the song is crystal clear. Colonized Mind is not so clear. I get the idea of the colonised mind, but not so much the specifics. Fir example I don't see how a child with no father is a "colonized mind." I see how a child might need a father, but it does not relate in my mind to the clearer message about a two-party system (illusion of choice, I totally agree), or even the record deal.

To me, Prince is trying to cover too much ground, here. Putting every wrong that he sees in society into one single idea, and I am not sure they all fit there.

Prince likes 2 make folks think......4 themselves.

Yeah I agree, with one simple sentence in an interview he got a bunch of people talking about the presendents under the contenental congress. What other singer has ever done that?

The question is, does his art suffer from his desire to stimulate thought?

lovesexy06 said:

Drew me in from the first listen, Love it!!!

me 2

NDRU said:

Graycap23 said:

Prince likes 2 make folks think......4 themselves.

Yeah I agree, with one simple sentence in an interview he got a bunch of people talking about the presendents under the contenental congress. What other singer has ever done that?

The question is, does his art suffer from his desire to stimulate thought?

Not 4 the thinking man/woman...............the others? Who really cares?

Are some of you for real? Prince's new music stimulating thought? LMAO Colonized Mind is about as rigorous an intellectual exercise as Barney the dinosaur singing "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family."

PurpleKnight said:

Are some of you for real? Prince's new music stimulating thought? LMAO Colonized Mind is about as rigorous an intellectual exercise as Barney the dinosaur singing "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family."

PurpleKnight said:

Are some of you for real? Prince's new music stimulating thought? LMAO Colonized Mind is about as rigorous an intellectual exercise as Barney the dinosaur singing "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family."

sorry but that's idiotic. Your first post on this topic shows that your thoughts were plenty stimulated, even if they were directed at dismissing the lyrics.

[Edited 3/4/11 16:59pm]

I still think it's crap.

PurpleKnight said:

Are some of you for real? Prince's new music stimulating thought? LMAO Colonized Mind is about as rigorous an intellectual exercise as Barney the dinosaur singing "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family."

Well, that depends on the individual's interest or curiosity. Many of his recent songs have been discussed here. I find that in many of those songs with a socio-political, racial or religious vibe, he will put just enough, not too much within the lyrics to cause curiosity where the listener will question what he meant in particular lines or what was his point in singing about that, as well as some fans who feel he could have left all of that out of his music. So yeah, even if you may think particular lyrics to some of his songs, may sound silly to you, it may just as well generate curiosity and interest to others, besides the music behind the lyrics.

[Edited 3/4/11 11:59am]

Great, great song.

But yes, and while I like the philosphy expressed in (most of) the lyrics, they are not necessarily logically expressed. But you can say that about almost any of Prince's pseudo-political, quasi-spirtiual ramblings.

Crimson and Clover

Colonized Mind

Feel Better Feel Good Feel Wonderful

My first immediate faves...I also like the psychadelic intro and outro...

I like this entire cd now. But on first listen "Boom", "Crimson and Clover" and "Colonized Mind" were the only songs to grab me. My favorite on the cd now is "Dreamer"....Prince getting his "Jimi" on. I love it.

i think its interesting how sometimes the truth is often misconstrued as "preachy". Great track, loved it since day 1. recent classic and proof of whatever to naysayers

NDRU said:

PurpleKnight said:

Are some of you for real? Prince's new music stimulating thought? LMAO Colonized Mind is about as rigorous an intellectual exercise as Barney the dinosaur singing "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family."

sorry but that's idiotic. Your first post on this topic shows that your thoughts were plenty stimulated, even if they were directed at dismissing the lyrics.

[Edited 3/4/11 16:59pm]

I can write just as detailed, if not more, a critique of Justin Bieber. Does that mean we can say that Justin Bieber's music stimulates thought too? My point is that Colonized Mind is incredibly shallow, and anyone who doubts that needs to read more as well as perhaps listen to more sophisticated songwriting. Check out a Matthew Good record or something.

PurpleKnight said:

NDRU said:

sorry but that's idiotic. Your first post on this topic shows that your thoughts were plenty stimulated, even if they were directed at dismissing the lyrics.

[Edited 3/4/11 16:59pm]

I can write just as detailed, if not more, a critique of Justin Bieber. Does that mean we can say that Justin Bieber's music stimulates thought too? My point is that Colonized Mind is incredibly shallow, and anyone who doubts that needs to read more as well as perhaps listen to more sophisticated songwriting. Check out a Matthew Good record or something.

I have never been a champion of Prince's lyrics, but you are seriously going to say that the concept of a colonized mind is not thought provoking? Less so than Bieber and Barney?

I understand you want to casually dismiss the lyrics as vapid and overly simplistic (and in the details I might agree), but I think such a dismissal is equally simplistic when we are talking about the concept.

these lyrics:

Upload, the 2 party system
The lesser of 2 dangers,
Illusion of choice

Download, their form of fascism
Nothing really ever changes
You never had a voice

...are not particularly great poetry, but in spirit I quite agree with them and they fit in with the concept of a colonized mind. I wish more people would say stuff like this.

[Edited 3/5/11 13:22pm]

NDRU said:

PurpleKnight said:

I can write just as detailed, if not more, a critique of Justin Bieber. Does that mean we can say that Justin Bieber's music stimulates thought too? My point is that Colonized Mind is incredibly shallow, and anyone who doubts that needs to read more as well as perhaps listen to more sophisticated songwriting. Check out a Matthew Good record or something.

I have never been a champion of Prince's lyrics, but you are seriously going to say that the concept of a colonized mind is not thought provoking? Less so than Bieber and Barney?

I understand you want to casually dismiss the lyrics as vapid and overly simplistic (and in the details I might agree), but I think such a dismissal is equally simplistic when we are talking about the concept.

these lyrics:

Upload, the 2 party system
The lesser of 2 dangers,
Illusion of choice

Download, their form of fascism
Nothing really ever changes
You never had a voice

...are not particularly great poetry, but in spirit I quite agree with them and they fit in with the concept of a colonized mind. I wish more people would say stuff like this.

[Edited 3/5/11 13:22pm]

Nowhere did I claim it was less thought provoking than Justin Bieber or Barney (I was obviously being hyperbolic and quasi-facetious with this second reference).

The point is that there is a significant difference between depth as a result of an artist's brilliance and depth only as a result of the critique of the artist's superficiality. Colonized Mind's provocation of thought, and thus its depth, is the result of the latter.

PurpleKnight said:

NDRU said:

I have never been a champion of Prince's lyrics, but you are seriously going to say that the concept of a colonized mind is not thought provoking? Less so than Bieber and Barney?

I understand you want to casually dismiss the lyrics as vapid and overly simplistic (and in the details I might agree), but I think such a dismissal is equally simplistic when we are talking about the concept.

these lyrics:

Upload, the 2 party system
The lesser of 2 dangers,
Illusion of choice

Download, their form of fascism
Nothing really ever changes
You never had a voice

...are not particularly great poetry, but in spirit I quite agree with them and they fit in with the concept of a colonized mind. I wish more people would say stuff like this.

[Edited 3/5/11 13:22pm]

Nowhere did I claim it was less thought provoking than Justin Bieber or Barney (I was obviously being hyperbolic and quasi-facetious with this second reference).

The point is that there is a significant difference between depth as a result of an artist's brilliance and depth only as a result of the critique of the artist's superficiality. Colonized Mind's provocation of thought, and thus its depth, is the result of the latter.

U guys have fun with that, but this is about Prince not Matthew Good, Bob Dylan or Shakespere so get it together.

paisleypark4 said:

It took me a while.

I didnt understand what the hoopla was about on this track..I always thought it was boring, contrived and preachy....

I listened to it 2 times in the last two weeks, now I get chills listening to some of the things he says....I guess I am kind of in a funky mood lately, and usually the political songs hit me at the time. Great guitar work, exploding drums and a great climax.

Good tune.

I liked this song immediately. I thought the lyrics were quite clever, and the building guitar/drumwork is fantastic. But the lyrics got me first.

PurpleKnight said:

"You see a rock on the shore and say 'It's always been there'... "

I agree that is a monumentally stupid line. It is actually proponents of the creation ex nihilo hypothesis (the idea that there was nothing and then through God creation suddenly just appeared) who would ever say such a thing.

That line really summarizes my problem with the song. Though it builds nicely and becomes a rousing melody by the end, the lyrics are as superficial as they could possibly be.

It makes laughable causal claims about deference to authority and the breakdown of morality, or simply naive and simplistic ones about human psychology linked to one's parental upbringing. No mother growing up = a hard time showing love. Thank you, Dr. Prince, but I think I'll stick with people like Carl Jung.

It says a lot about Prince's vanity as a songwriter these days that he finds it appropriate to include yet another self-righteous bit of whining about multi-million dollar contracts (ten years of this wasn't enough?) in a song that also talks about serious issues like fascistic oppression.

It's also quite sad that Prince should write a self-righteous song about the colonization of the mind while following an interpretation of the Bible that was perpetuated by white hegemony.

[Edited 3/3/11 19:27pm]

Actually this is the line that really got to me. I grew up without a mother (she died when I was 5), and, with no mother figure (all males in house, 3 brothers and dad), I think it's absolutely true that you have a hard time showing emotions. My brothers and I are all like this in some way or another, and I don't think it takes a genius or a Jung to see that the mother figure is the parent that instills things like being able to show love, compassion, etc. So to casually dismiss it as naive or simplistic is, well, naive and simplistic.

BlackandRising said:

PurpleKnight said:

I agree that is a monumentally stupid line. It is actually proponents of the creation ex nihilo hypothesis (the idea that there was nothing and then through God creation suddenly just appeared) who would ever say such a thing.

That line really summarizes my problem with the song. Though it builds nicely and becomes a rousing melody by the end, the lyrics are as superficial as they could possibly be.

It makes laughable causal claims about deference to authority and the breakdown of morality, or simply naive and simplistic ones about human psychology linked to one's parental upbringing. No mother growing up = a hard time showing love. Thank you, Dr. Prince, but I think I'll stick with people like Carl Jung.

It says a lot about Prince's vanity as a songwriter these days that he finds it appropriate to include yet another self-righteous bit of whining about multi-million dollar contracts (ten years of this wasn't enough?) in a song that also talks about serious issues like fascistic oppression.

It's also quite sad that Prince should write a self-righteous song about the colonization of the mind while following an interpretation of the Bible that was perpetuated by white hegemony.

[Edited 3/3/11 19:27pm]

Actually this is the line that really got to me. I grew up without a mother (she died when I was 5), and, with no mother figure (all males in house, 3 brothers and dad), I think it's absolutely true that you have a hard time showing emotions. My brothers and I are all like this in some way or another, and I don't think it takes a genius or a Jung to see that the mother figure is the parent that instills things like being able to show love, compassion, etc. So to casually dismiss it as naive or simplistic is, well, naive and simplistic.

There is a difference between stating something is false and stating that it is naive and simplistic. Lines like the one you're pointing out have truth in them, but it is so much more complex than that and includes so many factors that to reduce it just to that tritely expressed line is embarrassing and uninspiring.

It's just like when atheists critique the bible but then reduce it to similarly naive and simplistic comments about God being a dictator. Yawn.

PurpleKnight said:

BlackandRising said:

Actually this is the line that really got to me. I grew up without a mother (she died when I was 5), and, with no mother figure (all males in house, 3 brothers and dad), I think it's absolutely true that you have a hard time showing emotions. My brothers and I are all like this in some way or another, and I don't think it takes a genius or a Jung to see that the mother figure is the parent that instills things like being able to show love, compassion, etc. So to casually dismiss it as naive or simplistic is, well, naive and simplistic.

There is a difference between stating something is false and stating that it is naive and simplistic. Lines like the one you're pointing out have truth in them, but it is so much more complex than that and includes so many factors that to reduce it just to that tritely expressed line is embarrassing and uninspiring.

It's just like when atheists critique the bible but then reduce it to similarly naive and simplistic comments about God being a dictator. Yawn.

PurpleKnight said:

BlackandRising said:

Actually this is the line that really got to me. I grew up without a mother (she died when I was 5), and, with no mother figure (all males in house, 3 brothers and dad), I think it's absolutely true that you have a hard time showing emotions. My brothers and I are all like this in some way or another, and I don't think it takes a genius or a Jung to see that the mother figure is the parent that instills things like being able to show love, compassion, etc. So to casually dismiss it as naive or simplistic is, well, naive and simplistic.

There is a difference between stating something is false and stating that it is naive and simplistic. Lines like the one you're pointing out have truth in them, but it is so much more complex than that and includes so many factors that to reduce it just to that tritely expressed line is embarrassing and uninspiring.

It's just like when atheists critique the bible but then reduce it to similarly naive and simplistic comments about God being a dictator. Yawn.

yes it's more complex but that doesn't make what he said in the song any less true. In my opinion and experience, as someone who has lived without a mother figure for most of my life, it can be reduced to just that simple line. I mean, it's a line in a song...do you want a dissertation? Your post reads like you're trying to be overly intellectual when there's no need to be.

BlackandRising said:

PurpleKnight said:

There is a difference between stating something is false and stating that it is naive and simplistic. Lines like the one you're pointing out have truth in them, but it is so much more complex than that and includes so many factors that to reduce it just to that tritely expressed line is embarrassing and uninspiring.

It's just like when atheists critique the bible but then reduce it to similarly naive and simplistic comments about God being a dictator. Yawn.

yes it's more complex but that doesn't make what he said in the song any less true. In my opinion and experience, as someone who has lived without a mother figure for most of my life, it can be reduced to just that simple line. I mean, it's a line in a song...do you want a dissertation? Your post reads like you're trying to be overly intellectual when there's no need to be.

well said.