Se7en said:

Spinlight said:

Biggest mistakes:

1981:

-Canning "The Second Coming"

1982:

-Slashing "DMSR" from some editions of 1999.

1984:

-"Computer Blue" (in any extended fashion) remained unreleased, yet we have extended versions of "Another Lonely Christmas" and "I Would Die 4 U" which did see release. Why? Also: "God (vocal)" over "Computer Blue" extended? In the words of Ernest Sewell: R U Kidding Me Witt This Shit?

1985:

-The bratty no-video, no-promo approach to ATWIAD. The iron was hot, he should've struck it. Because he sabotaged himself, every success following Purple Rain was a mere ghost of 1984.

1986:

-Few options for singles on Parade. Yeah, yeah, classic album, but where's the singles? "Kiss" sure. Every other track is either not radio friendly or merely KIND of radio friendly ("Girls and Boys", "Anotherlover", and "Mountains" are a bit experimental for pop radio). Shoulda slapped "All My Dreams" on there and then released it as the third single (with a video and a single-edit to about 3:30 mins).

- Disbanding the Revolution.

Everything after that is pretty irrelevent as his career had, by then, taken unrecoverable losses. Not that selling 2-4m an album is bad or that selling 16m of an album is anything to sneeze at, but the upward trajectory took a sharp nosedive when the Revolution went bye bye.

He did a video for Raspberry Beret.

Pearl Jam was anti-video for a long time, having only done one proper video (Jeremy). They've since released a few more, but will never be considered a "video act".

He did a video for RB long after its release when ATWIAD was beginning to plummet down the charts.

Spinlight said:

Se7en said:

He did a video for Raspberry Beret.

Pearl Jam was anti-video for a long time, having only done one proper video (Jeremy). They've since released a few more, but will never be considered a "video act".

He did a video for RB long after its release when ATWIAD was beginning to plummet down the charts.

Spinlight...I like your posts because they cut into the heart of some of the erroneous "Prince was untouchable/infallible in the 80's" thought that occurs here quite often.

The fact of the matter is that Prince has always been hit or miss when it comes to planning out "smart" career moves.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love that he does whatever the hell he wants and is a mad genius that way, but it can be aggravating as a die hard fan. I mean, can I at least get a remastered version of Purple Rain? Too much to ask?

Spinlight said:

Biggest mistakes:

1981:

-Canning "The Second Coming"

1982:

-Slashing "DMSR" from some editions of 1999.

1984:

-"Computer Blue" (in any extended fashion) remained unreleased, yet we have extended versions of "Another Lonely Christmas" and "I Would Die 4 U" which did see release. Why? Also: "God (vocal)" over "Computer Blue" extended? In the words of Ernest Sewell: R U Kidding Me Witt This Shit?

1985:

-The bratty no-video, no-promo approach to ATWIAD. The iron was hot, he should've struck it. Because he sabotaged himself, every success following Purple Rain was a mere ghost of 1984.

1986:

-Few options for singles on Parade. Yeah, yeah, classic album, but where's the singles? "Kiss" sure. Every other track is either not radio friendly or merely KIND of radio friendly ("Girls and Boys", "Anotherlover", and "Mountains" are a bit experimental for pop radio). Shoulda slapped "All My Dreams" on there and then released it as the third single (with a video and a single-edit to about 3:30 mins).

- Disbanding the Revolution.

Everything after that is pretty irrelevent as his career had, by then, taken unrecoverable losses. Not that selling 2-4m an album is bad or that selling 16m of an album is anything to sneeze at, but the upward trajectory took a sharp nosedive when the Revolution went bye bye.

I could have swore that 1999 had the song "Free" left off of some albums... am I wrong?

parker said:

I used to think Prince left all the best songs off his albums, which was truly an incorrect assessment.

Dream Factory is a better unreleased album, than a released one. Crystal Ball would have been a mess in a bad way, Camille while a cool idea, would have just added confusion to Prince's catalog and The Black Album really is a throw-away (although enjoyable) album.

Wasn't it WB that refused to release Crystal Ball? I thought that Prince pushed hard for its release but WB insisted that it be cut back to a double album. If that's true, then SOTT can't be attributed to a musical choice by Prince.

skywalker said:

Spinlight said:

He did a video for RB long after its release when ATWIAD was beginning to plummet down the charts.

Spinlight...I like your posts because they cut into the heart of some of the erroneous "Prince was untouchable/infallible in the 80's" thought that occurs here quite often.

The fact of the matter is that Prince has always been hit or miss when it comes to planning out "smart" career moves.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love that he does whatever the hell he wants and is a mad genius that way, but it can be aggravating as a die hard fan. I mean, can I at least get a remastered version of Purple Rain? Too much to ask?

in my opinion, he was "untouchable/infallible" in the 80-84 era, like Dylan in the 63-69 era or Bowie in the 70-80 era...

skywalker said:

Spinlight said:

He did a video for RB long after its release when ATWIAD was beginning to plummet down the charts.

Spinlight...I like your posts because they cut into the heart of some of the erroneous "Prince was untouchable/infallible in the 80's" thought that occurs here quite often.

The fact of the matter is that Prince has always been hit or miss when it comes to planning out "smart" career moves.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love that he does whatever the hell he wants and is a mad genius that way, but it can be aggravating as a die hard fan. I mean, can I at least get a remastered version of Purple Rain? Too much to ask?

Thanks.

lol, Unfortunately, yeah. It is. Prince ain't releasing any reissues until he knows, 100%, its going to be a hit on the scale of those Beatles reissues or the MJ reissues.

That has always been my theory as to why he is so $$$$-hungry nowadays, as well. A lot of his decisions in the 90s, he thought were surefire bets and they were complete bombs. Now, he plays for keeps and that means being paid up front or securing a hit.

electricberet said:

parker said:

I used to think Prince left all the best songs off his albums, which was truly an incorrect assessment.

Dream Factory is a better unreleased album, than a released one. Crystal Ball would have been a mess in a bad way, Camille while a cool idea, would have just added confusion to Prince's catalog and The Black Album really is a throw-away (although enjoyable) album.

Wasn't it WB that refused to release Crystal Ball? I thought that Prince pushed hard for its release but WB insisted that it be cut back to a double album. If that's true, then SOTT can't be attributed to a musical choice by Prince.

Good point.

parker said:

electricberet said:

Wasn't it WB that refused to release Crystal Ball? I thought that Prince pushed hard for its release but WB insisted that it be cut back to a double album. If that's true, then SOTT can't be attributed to a musical choice by Prince.

Good point.

WB didn't want to release a 3LP set and wanted it cut to 2LPs - it was entirely Prince's decision what to cut, what to keep and to renamed the set to 'SOTT'.

[Edited 3/2/11 1:53am]

^ but he hated being told to do it

I am sitting here at home with the flu and I am bored, so I decided to write down how many right choices and how many mistakes were made lol

They are uncountable really, but there are some big ones.

I have always felt that if he had combined the best of For You and Prince it would have been a better debute album, musically and commercially.

DM and Controversy were the right moves at the time.

1999 was a good musical and commercial move, but it would have sold better as a single album. If the two ballads would have been excluded, it would have been an all out electro funkfest and a stronger musical statement.

PR is perfect, musically and commercially.

ATWIAD should have had She's always in my hair on it instead of Tamborine. Due to its highly experimental nature however, it could have never been as big a commercial succes as PR.

Parade is musically great, but like ATWIAD commercially not so appealing. It would have sold better if it would be a little shorter, concise and hit orientated.

Musically, SOTT is almost perfect, with the exception of It, Slow Love and It's gonna be a beautiful night. Take them out and the album gets even better. Commercially, a single album probably would have sold better, with the right promotion, which it lacked however.

Not releasing TBA was a smart move, commercially speaking. It endured Prince's mystique and reputation of super prolific rockstar.

LoveSexy is what it is and I will personally love it until my dying day. It should not be changed one bit, but commercially it was not a strong move. People, especially not in the US were not ready for it. The tour however, tho' not a commercial success either, did add much to his aura of greatest musician and showman alive, which he has profited from a lot.

Batman wasn't a good commercial choice either, nor musically. The album did sell a lot of units, but that success was mainly due to the success of the movie. Musically, Batman is a not a "bad album", but the compositions by far aren't his greatest. Many '80's fans' by that time got off the boat.

In hindsight, it would have been better not to have done that project and instead focus on an album containing most of the songs on the later GB, like the Question of U, We can Funk and Joy in repetition. And/or rework some of what was left of the DF and CB projects.

Hence GB was initially a good idea, especially to put some of his better unreleased 80's stuff on it, but it quickly became a commercial and musical failure. The movie should have never been made, was desastrous and rightfully bombed. The album did better, but could have been much better without all the Time stuff on it. Exclude them and you got a great album.

D&P was a commercial and musical success no doubt, with the right single choices and good promotion that put him back in the spotlights. The plus however gets partly negated by the mistake to put way too much Tony M on it and songs like Jughead, Push and Daddy Pop. Too much filler, like the CD just HAD to be filled and too much hiphop, which just isn't Prince.

A big mistake then was made by not releasing an album carrying songs like Open Book, Love Thy Will be Done, I hear your voice, Get Blue, I Wonder et al.

could have been a much stronger album than it is, if all the irritating segues would have been stripped as well as the Max, I wanna melt with U, Arrogance and the Flow. The single choices 7 and Sexy MF were right, but not My name is Prince. The promotion of the album failed too. Success and mistake.

Come is a pretty good album, musically. It's a dark and complex work that many hardcore fans adore, but I know that the original versions of it were much better. Commercially it's a failure. It has never sold well, has never been promoted well, but it doesn't carry enough popular music for the masses for it to sell well either. Success and mistake.

TGE is a musical success (tho personally I think it could have done without Pussy Control, We March and Now) and it could have been as big a commercial success as D&P, but it got largely bombed by all the negativity and bullshit surrounding it. Prince did tour a lot and tried to promote the hell out of it, but it never really stuck with the general public. Success and mistake.

Emancipation is a hot musical mess, tho' a well intended one. Musically, it could have been a killer album, if it would have been stripped to just a single disc with only the best songs on it. However, I believe it sold pretty well and made him a lot of money, so commercially it was a success and in that respect therefore the right choice. Success and mistake.

C&D is a pretty good album musically, but not great, and like Come, it is dark and bitter and could never appeal to the masses. Therefore it never sold a lot. Same goes for The Vault. Good music. No selling potential. Hardly promoted either. In that respect all mistakes basically.

With the exception of the unreleased songs on it and The Truth, CB in my opinion is one of his worst albums, musically speaking. Most of CB consists of remixes and extended versions of 90's songs that are not so good to begin with and the remixes make them even worse, in my opinion. He did make a shitload of money with it tho' and he didn't have to pay any compensation for the mess that he made of its distribution. However, this bit him in the ass later because it was the start of the battles with his fans that have cost him many. Huge mistake.

NPS is in my not so humble opinion perhabs the worst album he has ever released. Musically it contains maybe one or two good compositions and it really has very little to do with what "newpowersoul" used to be like, the performances also lack "soul" and the production finishes the kill. Total failure. Commercially not a great sell either, but he probably still made a lot with it because he made the lion share of the profits. Still a mistake.

Rave is a little better than NPS, musically. It has more good songs, but performance and production wise it is still in the same league if you ask me. Commercially a total bomb and an embarassing one because it was intended as his 'come back'. He got paid handsomely tho', in advance. But still, what a mistake.

TRC is musically one of his better albums, no doubt. Many good compositions, great performances and back to the right Prince production techniques. But it got ruined for many by the controversial lyrics and the Darth Vader voice and it is one of his least sold albums. Potentially a great success, but still a mistake.

ONA, one of his better 2000 albums too. Not a great commercial succes but not intended as such either. Good choice.

ONA Live: not my favorite and shame year 2 of the club had to end that way. Huge commercial mistake.

Xpectation, C-note and NEWS: not my favorites either and the first two were also misused in order to make a jab at his fans (big mistake). In my opinion not so 'inspirational' either as others may feel. Commercially also unappealing and not a success, tho' not intended as such either.

Musicology doesn't really deserve its title in my view. The album does absolutely nothing for me musically and I feel some of it doesn't even deserve the title Prince, so bad I feel it is, but it was a massive commercial success and his 'comeback' after all. So in that respect the right choice.

3121 is a little better musically, but still one of his lesser albums, at best mediocre music, uninspired performances, crappy production. Sold pretty well tho' I think, so he was probably happy with it. Still not a great part of his musical legacy in my view.

PE one step more in the right direction musically, but still mediocre at best and some very cringeworthy stuff on it like the One you wanna see and mr. Goodnight. Not a great commercial succes either and a collaboration with W&L deserved better than this, me thinks. Mistake.

LF - great music, great performances, great production. Just take $ off and it is perfect. Could have been a great commercial success if he wouldn't have done the website, but would have focused on a simple web presence and a major CD release, with just this one disc. But he didn't and decided to screw his fans one more time and then declared the internet dead when it bombed. Great musical success, but a huge commercial mistake.

MPLS sound may be a sympathetic try to bring back the sound of the early 80's but it fails terribly to do that in my opinion. The mostly contemporary R&B type compositions do not fit with with the lynn and some of the lyrics seem mostly inspired by an ego that has grown way too big. Mistake.

Same with 20ten but then even worse. I really don't like to dog it and I have seriously tried to like it, but I just can't get past the first three songs, that hard do they make me cringe. Not a commercial success either, not in the least because he only released it by newspaper in two countries, and perhaps one of the worst choices he has ever made, musically.

As I see it therefore, commercially many mistakes have been made, also in the 80's. Musically less, but also quite a few. In the 90's it got worse and in the 00's it got really bad.

-

[Edited 3/2/11 7:54am]

JoeTyler said:

Poplife88 said:

Agree with most of what you said. But Computer Blue 12" should've been released somewhere, somehow...and La La La Hee Hee Hee is one my favorite Prince songs. Some major funked up funk goin on there.

in my opinion, his worst mistkaes in the 80s were:

-She's Always In My Hair should have been included in ATWIAD

-Mountains released as the second single instead of Girls & Boys

-If I Was Your Girlfriend released as the second single

-No american tour in 1987

so one could say that the problems started in 1985...

[Edited 3/1/11 11:32am]

Yeah, agree with these, but do think problems started in 85 with ATWIAD, an album I DO like. It was way too expirmental at the time and had zero energy compared to PR. But agree SAIMH would've helped. not touring the US for SOTT in 87 and killing the album so fast with Black Album/Lovesexy was THE biggest error of em all imo.

Not necessarily a musical choice, but the cover for Lovesexy was professionally a bad choice.

There were plenty of other ways to convey spirituality and consciousness than to just pose nude.

We'll never know A vs. B in regards to sales, but I'd be curious to see what a version B would sell like. The music on the album is much more accessible than the cover would imply.

Se7en said:

Not necessarily a musical choice, but the cover for Lovesexy was professionally a bad choice.

There were plenty of other ways to convey spirituality and consciousness than to just pose nude.

We'll never know A vs. B in regards to sales, but I'd be curious to see what a version B would sell like. The music on the album is much more accessible than the cover would imply.

I disagree!

The cover is actually very accessible, heh.

But in all seriousness, the music, really isn't.

LoveSexy made me a fan, but it took me at least 5 listens to get into the album and it was the concert plus aftershow, that sealed the deal.

Se7en said:

Not necessarily a musical choice, but the cover for Lovesexy was professionally a bad choice.

There were plenty of other ways to convey spirituality and consciousness than to just pose nude.

We'll never know A vs. B in regards to sales, but I'd be curious to see what a version B would sell like. The music on the album is much more accessible than the cover would imply.

I agree. Following up the leak of The Black Album (I got it in high school and remember it generating a big buzz), Lovesexy should have been a hit. I think the cover threw even a lot of hardcore fans for a loop. Yes it's daring, but I think it alienated a lot of people Prince was trying to reach with his message.

NightGod said:

Se7en said:

Not necessarily a musical choice, but the cover for Lovesexy was professionally a bad choice.

There were plenty of other ways to convey spirituality and consciousness than to just pose nude.

We'll never know A vs. B in regards to sales, but I'd be curious to see what a version B would sell like. The music on the album is much more accessible than the cover would imply.

I agree. Following up the leak of The Black Album (I got it in high school and remember it generating a big buzz), Lovesexy should have been a hit. I think the cover threw even a lot of hardcore fans for a loop. Yes it's daring, but I think it alienated a lot of people Prince was trying to reach with his message.

Exactly. Out of all of my friends at the time -- all of whom were Prince fans -- I was the only one to buy Lovesexy and anything after that. Mostly because of that album cover.

Se7en said:

NightGod said:

I agree. Following up the leak of The Black Album (I got it in high school and remember it generating a big buzz), Lovesexy should have been a hit. I think the cover threw even a lot of hardcore fans for a loop. Yes it's daring, but I think it alienated a lot of people Prince was trying to reach with his message.

Exactly. Out of all of my friends at the time -- all of whom were Prince fans -- I was the only one to buy Lovesexy and anything after that. Mostly because of that album cover.

I know many fans who either didn't buy the album or just stopped paying attention after that. Sad that the image overtook the message.

Spinlight said:

Se7en said:

Exactly. Out of all of my friends at the time -- all of whom were Prince fans -- I was the only one to buy Lovesexy and anything after that. Mostly because of that album cover.

I know many fans who either didn't buy the album or just stopped paying attention after that. Sad that the image overtook the message.

I bought the vinyl and caught hell from some of my friends. Same thing happened when I bought the SOTT 12" and my friends swore that Cat was Prince in drag.

That didn't compare to when I bought Controversy on vinyl and pulled out the poster not knowing what it was in front of some friends. Yikes.

Spinlight said:

Se7en said:

Exactly. Out of all of my friends at the time -- all of whom were Prince fans -- I was the only one to buy Lovesexy and anything after that. Mostly because of that album cover.

I know many fans who either didn't buy the album or just stopped paying attention after that. Sad that the image overtook the message.

I remember that too, but what does it mean really that some people had such a big problem with that cover that they didn't buy the album, or even stopped liking his music overall?

That says more about them than about Prince or the cover of Lovesexy.

And I wonder, wasn't it exactly Prince's attention with this cover to reach the people who were able to see through it and not let their prejudices over an album's cover ruin its musical content?

Tremolina said:

Spinlight said:

I know many fans who either didn't buy the album or just stopped paying attention after that. Sad that the image overtook the message.

I remember that too, but what does it mean really that some people had such a big problem with that cover that they didn't buy the album, or even stopped liking his music overall?

That says more about them than about Prince or the cover of Lovesexy.

And I wonder, wasn't it exactly Prince's attention with this cover to reach the people who were able to see through it and not let their prejudices over an album's cover ruin its musical content?

I don't know if it was Prince's intention to target that cover at those who would "accept" it. It would not surprise me. I think he was making an artistic statement, pure and simple, with no thought about the impact on sales.

I'm sure there is a lot to write about the deeper meaning behind those who did NOT buy the album based on the cover. Part of it is homophobia, part of it is that is was just kinda uncool at the time.

I don't think the public was ready for that look yet. We had 3+ years of him with the purple trenchcoat/Hendrix look, and even ATWIAD/Parade/SOTT still maintained the masculinity (Parade's photography doesn't approach the femininity of Lovesexy's).

I think Lovesexy was the one that tipped the balance between masculine/feminine toward the feminine side. I also think Prince could have achieved the same effect if he had used a beautiful female model on the cover instead of (or in addition to) himself.

Something akin to the 12" cover for I Wish U Heaven would have been better.

Se7en said:

Tremolina said:

I remember that too, but what does it mean really that some people had such a big problem with that cover that they didn't buy the album, or even stopped liking his music overall?

That says more about them than about Prince or the cover of Lovesexy.

And I wonder, wasn't it exactly Prince's attention with this cover to reach the people who were able to see through it and not let their prejudices over an album's cover ruin its musical content?

I don't know if it was Prince's intention to target that cover at those who would "accept" it. It would not surprise me. I think he was making an artistic statement, pure and simple, with no thought about the impact on sales.

I'm sure there is a lot to write about the deeper meaning behind those who did NOT buy the album based on the cover. Part of it is homophobia, part of it is that is was just kinda uncool at the time.

I don't think the public was ready for that look yet. We had 3+ years of him with the purple trenchcoat/Hendrix look, and even ATWIAD/Parade/SOTT still maintained the masculinity (Parade's photography doesn't approach the femininity of Lovesexy's).

I think Lovesexy was the one that tipped the balance between masculine/feminine toward the feminine side. I also think Prince could have achieved the same effect if he had used a beautiful female model on the cover instead of (or in addition to) himself.

Something akin to the 12" cover for I Wish U Heaven would have been better.

Making an artistic statement usually serves a purpose tho', doesn't it? In the case of Prince, he obviously like to make people think, by stirring a little controversy. Somehow however, I also think that he really thought the album would still sell great with such a cover. What sort of came out of it in the end, was that the US public was lukewarm at best about it and largely not ready for it yet, while the European public seemed more open to it. Strange however, when you consider the fairly religious laden lyrics.