Would it be safe to say that the majority of Prince fans are between, say, 35 and 50 years old?

And if so, would it be safe to say that the majority of us are, year by year, becoming more frugal with our cash, and decreasingly likely to spend hundreds of dollars on deluxe remasters of Prince's material, and elaborate boxed sets?

And then the younger fans, who've come aboard with albums like 3121 and Planet Earth, for instance... while it's likely (hopefully) that their earnings will increase in the coming years, are they far less likely to drop, say, $30 on an elaborate remaster of For You?

Is the kind of return Prince can expect to see from an extensive reissuing project like this one decreasing every year?

These are the things I'm thinking about today, while I should be working. What do you think?

(oh and hey, Prince, if you're reading: check out what Nick Cave has been doing).

eyewishuheaven said:

Would it be safe to say that the majority of Prince fans are between, say, 35 and 50 years old?

And if so, would it be safe to say that the majority of us are, year by year, becoming more frugal with our cash, and decreasingly likely to spend hundreds of dollars on deluxe remasters of Prince's material, and elaborate boxed sets?

And then the younger fans, who've come aboard with albums like 3121 and Planet Earth, for instance... while it's likely (hopefully) that their earnings will increase in the coming years, are they far less likely to drop, say, $30 on an elaborate remaster of For You?

Is the kind of return Prince can expect to see from an extensive reissuing project like this one decreasing every year?

These are the things I'm thinking about today, while I should be working. What do you think?

(oh and hey, Prince, if you're reading: check out what Nick Cave has been doing).

I'm younger than 35 and was brought up on Prince's late '70s/'80s material. I never really got into his later albums like 3121 and Planet Earth until I was almost 17 years old or so. But I've been having the same kind of thoughts you're having...

I'm not sure what will happen, but I do know that Prince has already made a pretty good name for himself that will always be remembered, so I think that's really what matters.

There's a $30 remaster of For You? Holy shit on toast!

He will probably lose a lot of money, but that would basically be his fault.

A lot of old artists lose income as the years go by. There are very few that manage to keep on getting the great sales they once had. And I feel that's not what Prince is looking for at the moment, to be honest. He could still pull off a large tour and most of the shows would still sell out, especially with good promotion. Same goes for new album sales. You could argue that that's gonna change in the future, but there are still a lot of places where people would love to throw a lot of money at him. He hasn't been anywhere near Australia for 7 years, I'm sure people there are dying to get a few shows.

And let's not forget the new fans! It surprised me how many young folks are becoming fan recently, for quite some time I (naïvely) thought I was the exception. Based on the stories we hear I'm sure most of us would pick any chance to see him live as soon as possible. And then there is backtracking as well, all of those new fans have to buy the old records. And if you could choose, would you pick the original or remastered version of the album? That's extra income for Prince as well

Prince could also release some vault material or a live DVD. You may not want to buy that, but I've seen enough old people on here who are willing to spend tons to get that. And with new fans just starting, that's a solid future plan too.

So it's basically up to Prince if he wants to keep current sales for some time. I don't think he's got a lot to worry about financially, he just got to work for it.

He will get what he was asking for with his behaviour.

Most long term fans are very disappointed for loads of reasons (all of them his faults).

2004 & onwards newcomers will have forgotten about him in short, as soon as they find another artist-of-the-fortnight. And all of these are the internet generation, they're happy with mp3 downloads and all of those iDiotic formats instead of tracking down the real thing.

So it's a lose/lose situation unless Prince decides to reconsider and do what he should've done long ago. Which he won't do.

eyewishuheaven said:

Would it be safe to say that the majority of Prince fans are between, say, 35 and 50 years old?

And if so, would it be safe to say that the majority of us are, year by year, becoming more frugal with our cash, and decreasingly likely to spend hundreds of dollars on deluxe remasters of Prince's material, and elaborate boxed sets?

And then the younger fans, who've come aboard with albums like 3121 and Planet Earth, for instance... while it's likely (hopefully) that their earnings will increase in the coming years, are they far less likely to drop, say, $30 on an elaborate remaster of For You?

Is the kind of return Prince can expect to see from an extensive reissuing project like this one decreasing every year?

These are the things I'm thinking about today, while I should be working. What do you think?

(oh and hey, Prince, if you're reading: check out what Nick Cave has been doing).

Seems to me only those who are broke worry about the cost of CDs. THe older demographic has more discretionary income for such things are higer priced remasters an deluxe versions - if they arent broke. This demo is more likely to know REAL music and not place the silly kid stuff that is out there now ahead of classic art such as that Prince has given has across the last 5 decades

vitriol said:

He will get what he was asking for with his behaviour.

Most long term fans are very disappointed for loads of reasons (all of them his faults).

2004 & onwards newcomers will have forgotten about him in short, as soon as they find another artist-of-the-fortnight. And all of these are the internet generation, they're happy with mp3 downloads and all of those iDiotic formats instead of tracking down the real thing.

So it's a lose/lose situation unless Prince decides to reconsider and do what he should've done long ago. Which he won't do.

I can see where you are coming from. Though I don't fit your standard as a 2004 & onward fan. There is hope.

Sheeeeeeeiiiiiiiiit... By the time Prince decides to release those "remasters", his core fans will have a tough time deciding how many Social Security checks should be earmarked for those sets versus putting creamed corn and stale bread on the dinner table.

squirrelgrease said:

Sheeeeeeeiiiiiiiiit... By the time Prince decides to release those "remasters", his core fans will have a tough time deciding how many Social Security checks should be earmarked for those sets versus putting creamed corn and stale bread on the dinner table.

I know, right? That's what I'm worried about. I'm 39, and I'd put off a lot of things right now to get proper, carefully compiled remasters. But in, I dunno... ten years from now? Am I going to care even half as much?

Arent CDs considered an outdated technology by now ???

I wouldn't pay a penny for a CD which probably wont play anymore in 10-15 years from now anyway...

If he just would open a very cool website, with FLAC downloads, and MP4 streams in very good quality he could still earn a fortune - at least at the moment.

I dont know if i will still be interested in Remasters ten years from now. My ears surely wont get better with time (they are not like wine!)

squirrelgrease said:

Sheeeeeeeiiiiiiiiit... By the time Prince decides to release those "remasters", his core fans will have a tough time deciding how many Social Security checks should be earmarked for those sets versus putting creamed corn and stale bread on the dinner table.

pretty much

I'm starting to believe that we will never get remasters from Prince.I've accepted that possibility.It's sad but hey,life goes on.

Soulstar77A said:

Arent CDs considered an outdated technology by now ???

I wouldn't pay a penny for a CD which probably wont play anymore in 10-15 years from now anyway...

If he just would open a very cool website, with FLAC downloads, and MP4 streams in very good quality he could still earn a fortune - at least at the moment.

I dont know if i will still be interested in Remasters ten years from now. My ears surely wont get better with time (they are not like wine!)

That depends on how well you look after them, i have cd's that i bought when i was 18, i'm 39 now, they have been played a lot, but well looked after, stored properly, and they still play perfect.

However, i agree that something like a website with lossless downloads, would be a necessity regarding the release of remasters.

Releasing expensive remasters without a cd alternative in this day and age would be a commercial cock up imo, but then again, it is Prince we are talking about, not exactly known for taking the obvious route is he?

I would like to think that interest from long term and new fans alike would be enough to make remasters a big success, so long as a cd alternative was put in place.

I still buy cd's of official material (and not just Prince), i just prefer it, i like the format, but i was chatting with my 16 yr old nephew a few days ago, and he was laughing at me buying cd's.

He has a large music collection, and 99% of that is in downloads.

Sign O The Times indeed.

mblevels said:

He will probably lose a lot of money, but that would basically be his fault.

A lot of old artists lose income as the years go by. There are very few that manage to keep on getting the great sales they once had. And I feel that's not what Prince is looking for at the moment, to be honest. He could still pull off a large tour and most of the shows would still sell out, especially with good promotion. Same goes for new album sales. You could argue that that's gonna change in the future, but there are still a lot of places where people would love to throw a lot of money at him. He hasn't been anywhere near Australia for 7 years, I'm sure people there are dying to get a few shows.

And let's not forget the new fans! It surprised me how many young folks are becoming fan recently, for quite some time I (naïvely) thought I was the exception. Based on the stories we hear I'm sure most of us would pick any chance to see him live as soon as possible. And then there is backtracking as well, all of those new fans have to buy the old records. And if you could choose, would you pick the original or remastered version of the album? That's extra income for Prince as well

Prince could also release some vault material or a live DVD. You may not want to buy that, but I've seen enough old people on here who are willing to spend tons to get that. And with new fans just starting, that's a solid future plan too.

So it's basically up to Prince if he wants to keep current sales for some time. I don't think he's got a lot to worry about financially, he just got to work for it.

"older artists"..like Paul McCartney who makes millions by touring (outside of the use of his music and things beatles related)

Bon Jovi..makes millions by touring

Bruce...by touring

the Stones..by touring..

the business model has changed. there's no money to be made in selling cds..it's all about touring.

BlackAdder7 said:

the business model has changed. there's no money to be made in selling cds..it's all about touring.

You're totally right about that ! The business model has indeed changed !

BUT i think that Prince with his huge hardcore fanbase could still make a lot of money if he would sell his albums directly to his fans. Imagine he would open the Vault and you could download "deluxe editions" of his albums (of course in a lossless format) directly fom his website.

Sorry I'm dreaming again.... Will never happen of course...

^^ Probably not.

Soulstar77A said:

BlackAdder7 said:

the business model has changed. there's no money to be made in selling cds..it's all about touring.

You're totally right about that ! The business model has indeed changed !

BUT i think that Prince with his huge hardcore fanbase could still make a lot of money if he would sell his albums directly to his fans. Imagine he would open the Vault and you could download "deluxe editions" of his albums (of course in a lossless format) directly fom his website.

I agree.There is definitely a market out there for Prince music.Deluxe editions of classic albums like 'Purple Rain' and '1999' would sell decently,I just know it.

Soulstar77A said:

BlackAdder7 said:

the business model has changed. there's no money to be made in selling cds..it's all about touring.

You're totally right about that ! The business model has indeed changed !

BUT i think that Prince with his huge hardcore fanbase could still make a lot of money if he would sell his albums directly to his fans. Imagine he would open the Vault and you could download "deluxe editions" of his albums (of course in a lossless format) directly fom his website.

Sorry I'm dreaming again.... Will never happen of course...

if we get remasters at all, the only ones he'll release will be for you up to and including lovesexy,

is my guess.

if he'd put them up somewhere, on his own website, with no middle man, and charged, what? 20

dollars per deluxe edition (i'm thinking, the album plus an extra disc chock full of goodies), he'd

make $ 200,- bucks off every person who bought them all.

and who would buy them all? i'm thinking no more than 100.000 people, max. his hardcorde fan

base had dwindled a lot. that number might even be too high at the moment.

anyway, it would make him a nice nest egg of $ 20,000,000. no small amount at all, but if you

have a look at how much he earns in a single night of touring (big venues) then i guess he's got

enough cash and it wouldn't really be a reason to release his remasters.

plus you'd still have to take the costs of printing cd's and booklets plus shipping out of that.

aaaaaaaanyway. given how he's treating his post warners output, all of which, we assume he's

got the rights to publish and release however he wants to, it seems unlikely that he's interested

in having his catalogue available at all.

why no home online for everything from emancipation to 20ten? how ludicrous is it that he got

on his high horse about rights to his music when he's consequently showed time after time that

he doesn't care about his albums once they've been released. he forgets all about them in just

over 3 months.

how is the mastertape of controversy so much more precious to him than emancipation, if all

his music is equal? given the current state of his post warners catalogue, the most logical kind

of conclusion one would draw is that he simply gets his masters back in time and then we'll be

waiting, waiting, waiting, without anything happening.

and if we get them, how will he release them? is he gonna go to whomever signs a check for

the biggest advance? will he even include some extra stuff? or will he just remaster them and

release them just as they are now, with no bonus material?

at this point, remasters or not, without bonus material it all leaves me luke warm. i've been

used to sub par soundquality on his albums since 1988, so, whatever.

whatever. conclusion of this incoherent rant is just that i still can't understand how someone

like prince, and all he said and did during his battle with warners, came out of that a winner,

of sorts, only to then allow his whole catalogue to dwindle in bits and pieces, most of which

are now out of print or just simply 'offline'. none of that music since 1995 has a 'home' and

everything has become convuluted and impossible to make heads or tails of.

the one thing he needs is a decent site, no frills, just music. chronological pages of ALL his

output. all the albums, all the one off songs and singles and soundtrack stuff, with detailed

personell lists, lyrics, etc etc.

but until he shows the music that he's actually got the full rights to some love, i'm not holding

my breath for decent remasters.

IstenSzek said:

i still can't understand how someone like prince, and all he said and did during his battle with warners, came out of that a winner,of sorts, only to then allow his whole catalogue to dwindle in bits and pieces, most of which

are now out of print or just simply 'offline'. none of that music since 1995 has a 'home' and

everything has become convuluted and impossible to make heads or tails of.

the one thing he needs is a decent site, no frills, just music. chronological pages of ALL his output. all the albums, all the one off songs and singles and soundtrack stuff, with detailed

personell lists, lyrics, etc etc.

I'm so with you !!!!

[Edited 3/1/11 6:37am]

Don't hold your breath on remasters.

Is the window closing? I think the window is BROKEN.

i am going to try to be as optomistic about the remasters as possible, but of course there is a chance that it doesnt happen. Prince really doesnt seem to care a great deal about his legacy

Soulstar77A said:

Arent CDs considered an outdated technology by now ???

I wouldn't pay a penny for a CD which probably wont play anymore in 10-15 years from now anyway...

If he just would open a very cool website, with FLAC downloads, and MP4 streams in very good quality he could still earn a fortune - at least at the moment.

I dont know if i will still be interested in Remasters ten years from now. My ears surely wont get better with time (they are not like wine!)

The only way CDs won't play more than 10-15 years is if you don't take care of them. I started buying CDs 23 years ago, they work great!

However, I have had more than one hard drive crash. Both with drives less than 5 years old. If this happens to a drive with all your FLAC files... then what?

djThunderfunk said:

Soulstar77A said:

Arent CDs considered an outdated technology by now ???

I wouldn't pay a penny for a CD which probably wont play anymore in 10-15 years from now anyway...

If he just would open a very cool website, with FLAC downloads, and MP4 streams in very good quality he could still earn a fortune - at least at the moment.

I dont know if i will still be interested in Remasters ten years from now. My ears surely wont get better with time (they are not like wine!)

The only way CDs won't play more than 10-15 years is if you don't take care of them. I started buying CDs 23 years ago, they work great!

However, I have had more than one hard drive crash. Both with drives less than 5 years old. If this happens to a drive with all your FLAC files... then what?

U might want 2 switch over 2 solid state drive. More expensive but no moving parts 2 break.

30$ for a remaster ?

my gosh, Prince is not that stupid, and the industry is not that stupid either

if the remasters ever happen, they won't be more expensive than the 09/09/09 Beatles remasters (19-21$)

and the BOX SETS will N-E-V-E-R happen, probably

Graycap23 said:

djThunderfunk said:

The only way CDs won't play more than 10-15 years is if you don't take care of them. I started buying CDs 23 years ago, they work great!

However, I have had more than one hard drive crash. Both with drives less than 5 years old. If this happens to a drive with all your FLAC files... then what?

U might want 2 switch over 2 solid state drive. More expensive but no moving parts 2 break.

I changed brands, too.. much better now, thanks!

The point being, the odds of well cared for CDs lasting is greater than the odds of a hard drive not having problems, regardless of how it is cared for....

but, my MAIN point is this:

If your CDs don't work in 10-15 years, then, you don't take care of your CDs.

CDs will last if a few rules are followed:

- the disc should always be in a player or in the case, not out loose, not in a wallet...

- don't touch or scratch the playable side

- don't let them get too hot or too cold... or wet.

that's it, take care of them, they last

djThunderfunk said:

Graycap23 said:

U might want 2 switch over 2 solid state drive. More expensive but no moving parts 2 break.

I changed brands, too.. much better now, thanks!

The point being, the odds of well cared for CDs lasting is greater than the odds of a hard drive not having problems, regardless of how it is cared for....

but, my MAIN point is this:

If your CDs don't work in 10-15 years, then, you don't take care of your CDs.

CDs will last if a few rules are followed:

- the disc should always be in a player or in the case, not out loose, not in a wallet...

- don't touch or scratch the playable side

- don't let them get too hot or too cold... or wet.

that's it, take care of them, they last

Agreed. I still buy the cd format.

The window is not closing.

There are many artists who are a bit older than Prince (The Beatles, Miles Davis, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, James Brown, Elvis) that continually attract younger generations of fans. They have one thing that Prince needs a good healthy dose of: marketing/promotion.

If Prince were to, even slightly, up his game in this regard, he would easily open the door to younger fans. The slightest bit of proper marketing would reach an audience more quickly than even his legendary live shows would.

Problem is Prince isn't utilizing youtube, itunes, or promoting/restoring/making available his back catalog. So even if a 15 year old kid see Prince live and is totally turned on, he/she is gonna have a hard time tracking down quite a bit of Prince's music. Not to mention, t-shirts, posters, etc.

Prince is one of the most iconic music artists of all time. He should be marketed repectfully/substantially like his some of his peers: MJ, Madonna, U2, etc.

It is odd to me that he hasn't done more of this since his commercial renaissance began in 2004.

[Edited 3/1/11 8:29am]

skywalker said:

The window is not closing.

There are many artists who are a bit older than Prince (The Beatles, Miles Davis, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, James Brown, Elvis) that continually attract younger generations of fans. They have one thing that Prince needs a good healthy does of: marketing/promotion.

If Prince were to, even slightly, up his game in this regard, he would easily open the door to younger fans. The slightest bit of proper marketing would reach an audience more quickly than even his legendary live shows would.

Problem is Prince isn't utilizing youtube, itunes, or promoting/restoring/making available his back catalog. So even if a 15 year old kid see Prince live and is totally turned on, he/she is gonna have a hard time tracking down quite a bit of Prince's music. Not to mention, t-shirts, posters, etc.

Prince is one of the most iconic music artists of all time. He sshould be marketed repectfully/substantially like his some of his peers: MJ, Madonna, U2, etc.

It is odd to me that he hasn't done more of this since his commercial renaissance began in 2004.

[Edited 3/1/11 8:26am]

Graycap23 said:

Simple: That is NOT his goal. At least not now.

I realize that. It is a bit perplexing though. It seems like it would require little effort on Prince's part, yet could earn him a lot of money and, as I said, a whole slew of new/younger fans.

skywalker said:

Graycap23 said:

Simple: That is NOT his goal. At least not now.

I realize that. It is a bit perplexing though. It seems like it would require little effort on Prince's part, yet could earn him a lot of money and, as I said, a whole slew of new/younger fans.

It is a head scratcher.......but that is what happens when u let outside forces control your thought process.

SoulAlive said:

Soulstar77A said:

You're totally right about that ! The business model has indeed changed !

BUT i think that Prince with his huge hardcore fanbase could still make a lot of money if he would sell his albums directly to his fans. Imagine he would open the Vault and you could download "deluxe editions" of his albums (of course in a lossless format) directly fom his website.

I agree.There is definitely a market out there for Prince music.Deluxe editions of classic albums like 'Purple Rain' and '1999' would sell decently,I just know it.

Yes there may not be money in selling CD's but at the end of the day you have to tour something that people know about surely. As long as the CD's are at least cost neutral then you can tour on the back of the hit record. Also I don't really believe you dont make money on a CD if it sells well enough

skywalker said:

Graycap23 said:

Simple: That is NOT his goal. At least not now.

I realize that. It is a bit perplexing though. It seems like it would require little effort on Prince's part, yet could earn him a lot of money and, as I said, a whole slew of new/younger fans.

Sometimes, I think Prince does things for the right here and now (musically and business wise). Kind of like an artist painting a picture-paints the picture just because they want to. Other times it's a calculated business choice such as touring with hits in big arenas.

It appears the seemingly lack of focus in his business deals-could just be a result of not having proper management to carrier out daily doings. I mean Prince can still make the decisions, but Prince needs time to be the artist. Prince wears too many hats that bog the system down or so it seems.

(Did any of that make sense? )