novabrkr said:

Hmm, I don't think "Under The Cherry Moon" and "The Question Of U" are that similar either. If you play the melody yourself you should realize they're quite different. "Under The Cherry Moon" is quite chromatic, it sounds almost like old circus / funfair music when played faster. "The Question Of U", on the other hand, stays within its key. It's far more straightforward.

I think a lot of novice musicians hear things within a limited range of notes. I remember when I started out and tried to pick up by ear the bass line from "Chameleon" by Herbie Hancock - I thought it would fit within half-an octave, whereas it actually spans over 1½ octaves! Same thing seems to be happening here - "The Question Of U" has a melody that covers an octave and even more than that when it gets variated during the "verse" played on the guitar. Whereas there are fewer notes on "Las Vegas Tango". Some people just don't hear the range and the proper intervals (granted, there are people with better ears than mine in this respect as well).

There's also the fact that the short melodic motif on "Las Vegas Tango" is transposed when the underlying chord changes, which doesn't happen with "The Question Of U" at all. So, calling them "identical" is clearly false.

Are his recently revamped versions of songs like "Little Red Corvette" no longer the same song?

The similarity between Under the Cherry Moon and The Question of U is more apparent than the similarity between 1999 and Manic Monday... or Housequake and Jughead (Yeah, check that structure).

The exact notes, the keys, and the rhythm are really irrelevant when taken as individual factors. These variables can be transposed, chopped, and outright changed, yet still the combination of two unique collections of individual factors can still be similar in terms of the linear melodic narrative, or structural idea. I'd say Under the Cherry Moon and The Question of U are the same song idea, done differently when you boil them down to the elements. I think he wanted to remodel his idea and try it again within a more strict formal structure, but it's still the same music idea with a little flourish added in the ending melody hook.

How can I stand 2 stay where I am? (So what is the answer 2 the question of u)
Poor butterfly who don't understand (what do I look 4, what shall I do?)
Why can't I fly away in a special sky? (Must I become naked? No image at all?)
If I don't find my destiny soon, (Shall I remain upright? Or get down and crawl?)
I'll die in your arms under the cherry moon (what is the answer 2 the question of u?)

vitriol said:

^Unless you prove me wrong, I'm sure I never hit rock bottom as much as to use name-calling.

I just wanted to point that by what you said and how you said it you showed you are a musical ignorant and very proud of it.

And that your education leaves a lot to be desired, that's all.

Okay. Since I am so dumb, I shall pull a Rimbaud and never appear on this site again. The unfortunate thing is that there are far more people like you here than loving people. Those who choose to put down others, if not by name calling, by using your words wisely to say the same thing as calling them stupid. If you're so intelligent, then you can figure that out. And I don't know every musician in the world, true... but there may be some I know that you don't. Do you know a group called Along for the Ride? No? Does that make you musically ignorant? Ahhh, alas! I have found the subject of self importance. Since there are not as many kind people here, I shall allow my past posts, threads, etc. to be my own season in hell. Look it up... French lit, 101.

OH MY Sweet jeezus.

^^OK. Come back when/if you grow up.

ufoclub said:

Are his recently revamped versions of songs like "Little Red Corvette" no longer the same song?

The similarity between Under the Cherry Moon and The Question of U is more apparent than the similarity between 1999 and Manic Monday... or Housequake and Jughead (Yeah, check that structure).

The exact notes, the keys, and the rhythm are really irrelevant when taken as individual factors. These variables can be transposed, chopped, and outright changed, yet still the combination of two unique collections of individual factors can still be similar in terms of the linear melodic narrative, or structural idea. I'd say Under the Cherry Moon and The Question of U are the same song idea, done differently when you boil them down to the elements. I think he wanted to remodel his idea and try it again within a more strict formal structure, but it's still the same music idea with a little flourish added in the ending melody hook.

How can I stand 2 stay where I am? (So what is the answer 2 the question of u)
Poor butterfly who don't understand (what do I look 4, what shall I do?)
Why can't I fly away in a special sky? (Must I become naked? No image at all?)
If I don't find my destiny soon, (Shall I remain upright? Or get down and crawl?)
I'll die in your arms under the cherry moon (what is the answer 2 the question of u?)

I'm not saying that the structure on both songs - or rather the way the melodies are structured - wouldn't be similar. The feel is just too different in the end. If you play the melodies from both songs on the keys or on any other instrument the difference should be apparent.

Or, you might want to compare "The Question Of U" to the live recording that's circulated as "Spanish Harem" (essentially a solo piano rendition of "Under The Cherry Moon"). Try to sing the lyrics from "The Question Of You" over that. I don't think it works - I just tried that, hah.

I won't comment on the revamped version of "Little Red Corvette", because I don't quite remember what it was like. There are many ways to preserve a sufficient amount of similarities with an original composition even when doing drastic changes. That's what variations are about, but "Under The Cherry Moon" and "The Question Of U" aren't quite variations of each other either.

Judged by the "structural similarities" I think it's very likely that writing one of those songs lead him to write the other, of course.

btw, I wasn't calling you a "novice musician" on the second paragraph. It was a generalization.

Well, let's not forget that TQOU was written in 1985.

So we can't be sure if it borrows brom UTCM or if it's actually the other way round...

vitriol said:

Sometimes I wonder if people listen to music with their ears or with their arses.

I know you call yourself Vitriol, so a little vitriol is expected, but why would it matter which body parts people listen with, as long as they enjoy the music.

In my opinion, this thread could be about the joy of discovering similarities (or not), and people should feel free to contribute from the amateurish listening to the more professional ears (or arses).

So if I felt like my penis thought the two songs sounded alike, I feel I should be allowed to express that.

(alas, it didn't)

novabrkr said:

ufoclub said:

Are his recently revamped versions of songs like "Little Red Corvette" no longer the same song?

The similarity between Under the Cherry Moon and The Question of U is more apparent than the similarity between 1999 and Manic Monday... or Housequake and Jughead (Yeah, check that structure).

The exact notes, the keys, and the rhythm are really irrelevant when taken as individual factors. These variables can be transposed, chopped, and outright changed, yet still the combination of two unique collections of individual factors can still be similar in terms of the linear melodic narrative, or structural idea. I'd say Under the Cherry Moon and The Question of U are the same song idea, done differently when you boil them down to the elements. I think he wanted to remodel his idea and try it again within a more strict formal structure, but it's still the same music idea with a little flourish added in the ending melody hook.

How can I stand 2 stay where I am? (So what is the answer 2 the question of u)
Poor butterfly who don't understand (what do I look 4, what shall I do?)
Why can't I fly away in a special sky? (Must I become naked? No image at all?)
If I don't find my destiny soon, (Shall I remain upright? Or get down and crawl?)
I'll die in your arms under the cherry moon (what is the answer 2 the question of u?)

I'm not saying that the structure on both songs - or rather the way the melodies are structured - wouldn't be similar. The feel is just too different in the end. If you play the melodies from both songs on the keys or on any other instrument the difference should be apparent.

Or, you might want to compare "The Question Of U" to the live recording that's circulated as "Spanish Harem" (essentially a solo piano rendition of "Under The Cherry Moon"). Try to sing the lyrics from "The Question Of You" over that. I don't think it works - I just tried that, hah.

I won't comment on the revamped version of "Little Red Corvette", because I don't quite remember what it was like. There are many ways to preserve a sufficient amount of similarities with an original composition even when doing drastic changes. That's what variations are about, but "Under The Cherry Moon" and "The Question Of U" aren't quite variations of each other either.

Judged by the "structural similarities" I think it's very likely that writing one of those songs lead him to write the other, of course.

btw, I wasn't calling you a "novice musician" on the second paragraph. It was a generalization.

no worries! Just a discussion. I do think it's interesting that he merged Question of You, The One, and Falling (Alicia Keys) on the Musicology tour, and now it seems his Gingerbread Man song is sometimes described at as being a lyrics over the music of "Question of U"... but I think it's actually more over "The One".

On another note (no pun intended) everyone talks about "Planet Earth" taking from Barry Manilow's "Could it be Magic", but nobody seems to recognize "Sailing" by Christopher Cross. Listen at 2:41 to the break, and compare to the break Prince recorded on "Planet Earth"

irreverence said:

vitriol said:

Sometimes I wonder if people listen to music with their ears or with their arses.

I know you call yourself Vitriol, so a little vitriol is expected, but why would it matter which body parts people listen with, as long as they enjoy the music.

In my opinion, this thread could be about the joy of discovering similarities (or not), and people should feel free to contribute from the amateurish listening to the more professional ears (or arses).

So if I felt like my penis thought the two songs sounded alike, I feel I should be allowed to express that.

(alas, it didn't)

I just said that because some posters not only 'said' but also 'insisted' that both songs were 'exactly' the same.

That's why I guessed they weren't using exactly their ears to listen to both tracks.

ufoclub said:

novabrkr said:

I'm not saying that the structure on both songs - or rather the way the melodies are structured - wouldn't be similar. The feel is just too different in the end. If you play the melodies from both songs on the keys or on any other instrument the difference should be apparent.

Or, you might want to compare "The Question Of U" to the live recording that's circulated as "Spanish Harem" (essentially a solo piano rendition of "Under The Cherry Moon"). Try to sing the lyrics from "The Question Of You" over that. I don't think it works - I just tried that, hah.

I won't comment on the revamped version of "Little Red Corvette", because I don't quite remember what it was like. There are many ways to preserve a sufficient amount of similarities with an original composition even when doing drastic changes. That's what variations are about, but "Under The Cherry Moon" and "The Question Of U" aren't quite variations of each other either.

Judged by the "structural similarities" I think it's very likely that writing one of those songs lead him to write the other, of course.

btw, I wasn't calling you a "novice musician" on the second paragraph. It was a generalization.

no worries! Just a discussion. I do think it's interesting that he merged Question of You, The One, and Falling (Alicia Keys) on the Musicology tour, and now it seems his Gingerbread Man song is sometimes described at as being a lyrics over the music of "Question of U"... but I think it's actually more over "The One".

On another note (no pun intended) everyone talks about "Planet Earth" taking from Barry Manilow's "Could it be Magic", but nobody seems to recognize "Sailing" by Christopher Cross. Listen at 2:41 to the break, and compare to the break Prince recorded on "Planet Earth"

Isn't "Gingerbread Man" just "Electric Man" with different lyrics? He was performing Gingerbread Man around the Christmas/Etc holiday(s). Has he continued this? If not, its just a holiday song, right?

EmancipationLover said:

Two completely different tunes.

The only song "The Question of U" borrows from is "Under the Cherry Moon" imo. But Prince is allowed to steal from himself.

wasn't the original from the Parade sessions anyway?

vitriol said:

irreverence said:

I know you call yourself Vitriol, so a little vitriol is expected, but why would it matter which body parts people listen with, as long as they enjoy the music.

In my opinion, this thread could be about the joy of discovering similarities (or not), and people should feel free to contribute from the amateurish listening to the more professional ears (or arses).

So if I felt like my penis thought the two songs sounded alike, I feel I should be allowed to express that.

(alas, it didn't)

I just said that because some posters not only 'said' but also 'insisted' that both songs were 'exactly' the same.

That's why I guessed they weren't using exactly their ears to listen to both tracks.

Okay, I understand.

But hey, sometimes listening with your body makes for a whole different musical experience.

irreverence said:

vitriol said:

I just said that because some posters not only 'said' but also 'insisted' that both songs were 'exactly' the same.

That's why I guessed they weren't using exactly their ears to listen to both tracks.

Okay, I understand.

But hey, sometimes listening with your body makes for a whole different musical experience.

Interesting comments.

The music I Love...............I don't really listen 2 at at. I "FEEL" them.

The Question of U is one's Prince' s most inspired tracks when it comes 2 "feeling" the music.

The other song?

NOT at all.

Those are all nice metaphors, but like it or not, music hit your brains through your ears...

vitriol said:

Those are all nice metaphors, but like it or not, music hit your brains through your ears...

.......but if it does not reach the intended destination, it is not good 4 me.

[Edited 2/3/11 16:19pm]

^Clever answer! I liked it.

Spinlight said:

I almost instinctively began singing to "Te Amo Corazon" at one point during the Gil Evans track. Is that what you were going for?

.... and it's subtle enough where it might be a coincidental similarity unlike that Colonized Mind source.

novabrkr said:

There's also the fact that the short melodic motif on "Las Vegas Tango" is transposed when the underlying chord changes, which doesn't happen with "The Question Of U" at all. So, calling them "identical" is clearly false.

Ok agreed, you have a point here!

I still believe that "Las Vegas Tango" was a main source for "inspiration" when P was writing "The Question of You"...