Without trying to offend any Prince fans, i really believe we are the most spoilt and least appreciative of all fans.

Without trying to come across as sycophantic, i think Prince has done far more than enough in his career to warrant having to keep his fans 'happy'.Throughout Princes career he has delivered literally an album a year, unheard of for most music artists.

Each album has always tried to do something different from the last. Whether they were successful is subjective, but he has never been predictable. A perfect example of this is when Prince gave us Around the World in a Day, because he didn't want to go the 'easy road' and release a Purple Rain pt. 2. At the time fans complained about that album, yet these days many people rate it as a great album and celebrate the fact that he was extremely brave in releasing that album.

One of the great things about Princes work is the diversity of his music. If you listen to many artists, they will happily churn out album after album without deviating from their sound. It is doubtful that any other artist has released such a wide range of music in such a range of musical styles. Yet each time Prince releases a new album, there is always a complaint that he doesn't use enough Linn drumming on the album or it there isn't enough guitars.

It seems that Prince fans love him for the diversity of his music, as long as it fits in with their idea of a perfect Prince album. It's a catch 22 situation. Prince put it perfectly in one interview when someone asked him if he would ever release a 1999 sounding album again, he replied that if they wanted that sound they should just listen to the 1999 album.

I even hear fans saying that Prince should hire a producer to keep up to date with current music. I'm sure if he did, fans would complain it's not really a Prince album because it wouldn't have that 'Prince sound'. The irony being that many new artists are now trying to emulate that Prince production sound.

Recently, Prince has obviously been listening to his fans (despite the many complaints that he just doesn't care) by releasing both a guitar led album Lotus Flower AND MPLS album, with crap loads of synths and Linn drums, yet as usual his fans just complain that it's not as good as XXX etc.

It is a general consensus that Prince's music isn't as good as his 80's stuff. How could it be? How many of the great artists have ever consistently been on the top of their game throughout their careers. Take for example the great Stevie Wonder. He has released some of the greatest albums and songs, yet he hasn't really released anything recently that even touches those greats. But his fans don't complain, and why should they? As with Prince, Stevie has given us such amazing music, how could anyone consistently keep to such high standards.

Yet us spolit Prince fans expect it, why? How can one man, who's released so many classic songs, songs that any other artist could ever dream of making, be able to continually release ground breaking music. Why can't us Prince fans be happy that we have such an amazing vast back catalogue to dip into, instead of just constantly complaining about his new stuff.

Another complaint i've heard is that his 90's stuff was not as good, but if you listen to it in retrospect most artists would give their right arm to be able to make music to that standard.. and that's music from an artist who reached his peak years before.

It seems there is a stigma attached to every Prince album. Fans expect so much from each release that it diminishes the fact that each album is not as bad as people think. For example, OutKast released the 'Love Below' album and Andre 3000 was hailed as a genius and the next Prince. Yet around the same time Prince released 'The Gold Album'. For me, this album pisses all over 'Love Below', and had it been released by any other artist it would have been hailed a masterpiece.. yet all plaudits were given to the OutKast album.

Even his most recent music has been of a good standard. As i mentioned before, it's subjective. But for me, his current music is still of a good standard and i enjoy each new release.

I personally think that we should just be thankful Prince is still making music. It may not be the Prince album you wanted to hear, it may not even be up to his previous standards, but Prince can only do what he can do. You can never accusing him of being lazy or a cop out in his music, because he's always wanted to try different genres of music.

He's even trying out his old Linn synth sound with the MPLS and 20ten albums to please his fans who missed that stuff.. so cut the guy some slack.

It's worth remembering the numerous back catalogue of albums you can listen to, the numerous concert films, with that great dancing etc. The amazing B-sides, stuff that would be worthy of single release, the *cough* amazing bootlegs.

It's a wealth of music to be getting on with, Why complain?

[Edited 2/3/11 11:48am]

2. youtube links (regarding Prince)are not allowed. No matter what games he is playing with youtube currently, we are still not permitted to reproduce those videos here. Until this changes, don't post them.

squirrelgrease said:

2. youtube links (regarding Prince)are not allowed. No matter what games he is playing with youtube currently, we are still not permitted to reproduce those videos here. Until this changes, don't post them.

removed!

U nailed it I believe. I agree 150% with everything you said. For some folks the glass is always half-empty with Prince. Its a shame really because "this thing called life" is so finite and fleeting.

[Edited 2/3/11 11:28am]

tricky99 said:

U nailed it I believe. I agree 150% with everything you said. For some folks the glass is always half-empty with Prince. Its a shame really because "this thing called life" is so finite and fleeting.

[Edited 2/3/11 11:28am]

I had to remove a Youtube link from this post of Prince perfoming Dance 4 Me live. It showed how amazing he still is after all these years. It is funkier than anything i've heard from any other artist recently. Not bad for someone who's apparently not relevant anymore.

Whiskas31 said:

Without trying to offend any Prince fans, i really believe we are the most spoilt and least appreciative of all fans.

Without trying to come across as sycophantic, i think Prince has done far more than enough in his career to warrant having to keep his fans 'happy'.Throughout Princes career he has delivered literally an album a year, unheard of for most music artists.

Each album has always tried to do something different from the last. Whether they were successful is subjective, but he has never been predictable. A perfect example of this is when Prince gave us Around the World in a Day, because he didn't want to go the 'easy road' and release a Purple Rain pt. 2. At the time fans complained about that album, yet these days many people rate it as a great album and celebrate the fact that he was extremely brave in releasing that album.

One of the great things about Princes work is the diversity of his music. If you listen to many artists, they will happily churn out album after album without deviating from their sound. It is doubtful that any other artist has released such a wide range of music in such a range of musical styles. Yet each time Prince releases a new album, there is always a complaint that he doesn't use enough Linn drumming on the album or it there isn't enough guitars.

It seems that Prince fans love him for the diversity of his music, as long as it fits in with their idea of a perfect Prince album. It's a catch 22 situation. Prince put it perfectly in one interview when someone asked him if he would ever release a 1999 sounding album again, he replied that if they wanted that sound they should just listen to the 1999 album.

I even hear fans saying that Prince should hire a producer to keep up to date with current music. I'm sure if he did, fans would complain it's not really a Prince album because it wouldn't have that 'Prince sound'. The irony being that many new artists are now trying to emulate that Prince production sound.

Recently, Prince has obviously been listening to his fans (despite the many complaints that he just doesn't care) by releasing both a guitar led album Lotus Flower AND MPLS album, with crap loads of synths and Linn drums, yet as usual his fans just complain that it's not as good as XXX etc.

It is a general consensus that Prince's music isn't as good as his 80's stuff. How could it be? How many of the great artists have ever consistently been on the top of their game throughout their careers. Take for example the great Stevie Wonder. He has released some of the greatest albums and songs, yet he hasn't really released anything recently that even touches those greats. But his fans don't complain, and why should they? As with Prince, Stevie has given us such amazing music, how could anyone consistently keep to such high standards.

Yet us spolit Prince fans expect it, why? How can one man, who's released so many classic songs, songs that no other artist could ever dream of making, be able to continually release ground breaking music. Why can't us Prince fans be happy that we have such an amazing vast back catalogue to dip into, instead of just constantly complaining about his new stuff.

Another complaint i've heard is that his 90's stuff was not as good, but if you listen to it in retrospect most artists would give their right arm to be able to make music to that standard.. and that's music from an artist who reached his peak years before.

It seems there is a stigma attached to every Prince album. Fans expect so much from each release that it diminishes the fact that each album is not as bad as people think. For example, OutKast released the 'Love Below' album and Andre 3000 was hailed as a genius and the next Prince. Yet around the same time Prince released 'The Gold Album'. For me, this album pisses all over 'Love Below', and had it been released by any other artist it would have been hailed a masterpiece.. yet all plaudits were given to the OutKast album.

Even his most recent music has been of a good standard. As i mentioned before, it's subjective. But for me, his current music is still of a good standard and i enjoy each new release.

I personally think that we should just be thankful Prince is still making music. It may not be the Prince album you wanted to hear, it may not even be up to his previous standards, but Prince can only do what he can do. You can never accusing him of being lazy or a cop out in his music, because he's always wanted to try different genres of music.

He's even trying out his old Linn synth sound with the MPLS and 20ten albums to please his fans who missed that stuff.. so cut the guy some slack.

It's worth remembering the numerous back catalogue of albums you can listen to, the numerous concert films, with that great dancing etc. The amazing B-sides, stuff that would be worthy of single release, the *cough* amazing bootlegs.

It's a wealth of music to be getting on with, Why complain?

[Edited 2/3/11 11:18am]

@Whiskas31 - You are sooo right!!!

squirrelgrease said:

2. youtube links (regarding Prince)are not allowed. No matter what games he is playing with youtube currently, we are still not permitted to reproduce those videos here. Until this changes, don't post them.

He just spoils his fans rotten, doesn't he?

Whiskas31 said:

Without trying to offend any Prince fans, i really believe we are the most spoilt and least appreciative of all fans.

Without trying to come across as sycophantic, i think Prince has done far more than enough in his career to warrant having to keep his fans 'happy'.Throughout Princes career he has delivered literally an album a year, unheard of for most music artists.

Each album has always tried to do something different from the last. Whether they were successful is subjective, but he has never been predictable. A perfect example of this is when Prince gave us Around the World in a Day, because he didn't want to go the 'easy road' and release a Purple Rain pt. 2. At the time fans complained about that album, yet these days many people rate it as a great album and celebrate the fact that he was extremely brave in releasing that album.

One of the great things about Princes work is the diversity of his music. If you listen to many artists, they will happily churn out album after album without deviating from their sound. It is doubtful that any other artist has released such a wide range of music in such a range of musical styles. Yet each time Prince releases a new album, there is always a complaint that he doesn't use enough Linn drumming on the album or it there isn't enough guitars.

It seems that Prince fans love him for the diversity of his music, as long as it fits in with their idea of a perfect Prince album. It's a catch 22 situation. Prince put it perfectly in one interview when someone asked him if he would ever release a 1999 sounding album again, he replied that if they wanted that sound they should just listen to the 1999 album.

I even hear fans saying that Prince should hire a producer to keep up to date with current music. I'm sure if he did, fans would complain it's not really a Prince album because it wouldn't have that 'Prince sound'. The irony being that many new artists are now trying to emulate that Prince production sound.

Recently, Prince has obviously been listening to his fans (despite the many complaints that he just doesn't care) by releasing both a guitar led album Lotus Flower AND MPLS album, with crap loads of synths and Linn drums, yet as usual his fans just complain that it's not as good as XXX etc.

It is a general consensus that Prince's music isn't as good as his 80's stuff. How could it be? How many of the great artists have ever consistently been on the top of their game throughout their careers. Take for example the great Stevie Wonder. He has released some of the greatest albums and songs, yet he hasn't really released anything recently that even touches those greats. But his fans don't complain, and why should they? As with Prince, Stevie has given us such amazing music, how could anyone consistently keep to such high standards.

Yet us spolit Prince fans expect it, why? How can one man, who's released so many classic songs, songs that any other artist could ever dream of making, be able to continually release ground breaking music. Why can't us Prince fans be happy that we have such an amazing vast back catalogue to dip into, instead of just constantly complaining about his new stuff.

Another complaint i've heard is that his 90's stuff was not as good, but if you listen to it in retrospect most artists would give their right arm to be able to make music to that standard.. and that's music from an artist who reached his peak years before.

It seems there is a stigma attached to every Prince album. Fans expect so much from each release that it diminishes the fact that each album is not as bad as people think. For example, OutKast released the 'Love Below' album and Andre 3000 was hailed as a genius and the next Prince. Yet around the same time Prince released 'The Gold Album'. For me, this album pisses all over 'Love Below', and had it been released by any other artist it would have been hailed a masterpiece.. yet all plaudits were given to the OutKast album.

Even his most recent music has been of a good standard. As i mentioned before, it's subjective. But for me, his current music is still of a good standard and i enjoy each new release.

I personally think that we should just be thankful Prince is still making music. It may not be the Prince album you wanted to hear, it may not even be up to his previous standards, but Prince can only do what he can do. You can never accusing him of being lazy or a cop out in his music, because he's always wanted to try different genres of music.

He's even trying out his old Linn synth sound with the MPLS and 20ten albums to please his fans who missed that stuff.. so cut the guy some slack.

It's worth remembering the numerous back catalogue of albums you can listen to, the numerous concert films, with that great dancing etc. The amazing B-sides, stuff that would be worthy of single release, the *cough* amazing bootlegs.

It's a wealth of music to be getting on with, Why complain?

[Edited 2/3/11 11:48am]

You spoke nothing but the truth right there.

"Why complain?"

Why should people have to re-type their issues out for this thread? If you would read the threads where people air their grievances, you would understand why they complain.

Whiskas31 said:

tricky99 said:

U nailed it I believe. I agree 150% with everything you said. For some folks the glass is always half-empty with Prince. Its a shame really because "this thing called life" is so finite and fleeting.

[Edited 2/3/11 11:28am]

I had to remove a Youtube link from this post of Prince perfoming Dance 4 Me live. It showed how amazing he still is after all these years. It is funkier than anything i've heard from any other artist recently. Not bad for someone who's apparently not relevant anymore.

I agree with you whiskas! its my conundrum with the org. i crave the purple information but i inevitably am reminded (even if i don't OPEN the threads) of how bitch-tastic his "fans" are. set the bar high and watch them eat you alive. too bad u had to remove the link, would've like to see that, again; not bad for a played out scrub huh? dude is STILL the only one who gets me to the wrecka stowe!

Spinlight said:

"Why complain?"

Why should people have to re-type their issues out for this thread? If you would read the threads where people air their grievances, you would understand why they complain.

It was a rhetorical question. I'm not asking for people to re-type their issues, that's not the point of this post. I'm commenting about peoples complaints, hence why i made this post and why i don't understand why they complain.

datdude said:

Whiskas31 said:

I had to remove a Youtube link from this post of Prince perfoming Dance 4 Me live. It showed how amazing he still is after all these years. It is funkier than anything i've heard from any other artist recently. Not bad for someone who's apparently not relevant anymore.

I agree with you whiskas! its my conundrum with the org. i crave the purple information but i inevitably am reminded (even if i don't OPEN the threads) of how bitch-tastic his "fans" are. set the bar high and watch them eat you alive. too bad u had to remove the link, would've like to see that, again; not bad for a played out scrub huh? dude is STILL the only one who gets me to the wrecka stowe!

I'll send it to you in an orgnote.

Whiskas31 said:

Spinlight said:

"Why complain?"

Why should people have to re-type their issues out for this thread? If you would read the threads where people air their grievances, you would understand why they complain.

It was a rhetorical question. I'm not asking for people to re-type their issues, that's not the point of this post. I'm commenting about peoples complaints, hence why i made this post and why i don't understand why they complain.

"Here's my opinion why you shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion."

Spinlight said:

Whiskas31 said:

It was a rhetorical question. I'm not asking for people to re-type their issues, that's not the point of this post. I'm commenting about peoples complaints, hence why i made this post and why i don't understand why they complain.

"Here's my opinion why you shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion."

I'm not going to get into an argument over the semantics of my post. You and anyone else are entitled to their opinion, i respect that. I'm merely expressing my opinion regarding the matter.

Whiskas31 said:

Spinlight said:

"Here's my opinion why you shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion."

I'm not going to get into an argument over the semantics of my post. You and anyone else are entitled to their opinion, i respect that. I'm merely expressing my opinion regarding the matter.

Your opinion is laced with vicious judgment and presumption.

You're dedicating a post about people criticizing Prince and then criticizing them within, even going as far as to assume what people know or don't know or want or don't want.

Let it alone. It's wonderful you have an opinion, but we're now not discussing the merits of it because you choose to let judgments fly and then expect.... What? This is an open letter to disatisfied fans? It doesn't apply to most people here. NO one asked for a perfect record.

Whiskas31 said:

Without trying to offend any Prince fans, i really believe we are the most spoilt and least appreciative of all fans.

Without trying to come across as sycophantic, i think Prince has done far more than enough in his career to warrant having to keep his fans 'happy'.Throughout Princes career he has delivered literally an album a year, unheard of for most music artists.

Each album has always tried to do something different from the last. Whether they were successful is subjective, but he has never been predictable. A perfect example of this is when Prince gave us Around the World in a Day, because he didn't want to go the 'easy road' and release a Purple Rain pt. 2. At the time fans complained about that album, yet these days many people rate it as a great album and celebrate the fact that he was extremely brave in releasing that album.

One of the great things about Princes work is the diversity of his music. If you listen to many artists, they will happily churn out album after album without deviating from their sound. It is doubtful that any other artist has released such a wide range of music in such a range of musical styles. Yet each time Prince releases a new album, there is always a complaint that he doesn't use enough Linn drumming on the album or it there isn't enough guitars.

It seems that Prince fans love him for the diversity of his music, as long as it fits in with their idea of a perfect Prince album. It's a catch 22 situation. Prince put it perfectly in one interview when someone asked him if he would ever release a 1999 sounding album again, he replied that if they wanted that sound they should just listen to the 1999 album.

I even hear fans saying that Prince should hire a producer to keep up to date with current music. I'm sure if he did, fans would complain it's not really a Prince album because it wouldn't have that 'Prince sound'. The irony being that many new artists are now trying to emulate that Prince production sound.

Recently, Prince has obviously been listening to his fans (despite the many complaints that he just doesn't care) by releasing both a guitar led album Lotus Flower AND MPLS album, with crap loads of synths and Linn drums, yet as usual his fans just complain that it's not as good as XXX etc.

It is a general consensus that Prince's music isn't as good as his 80's stuff. How could it be? How many of the great artists have ever consistently been on the top of their game throughout their careers. Take for example the great Stevie Wonder. He has released some of the greatest albums and songs, yet he hasn't really released anything recently that even touches those greats. But his fans don't complain, and why should they? As with Prince, Stevie has given us such amazing music, how could anyone consistently keep to such high standards.

Yet us spolit Prince fans expect it, why? How can one man, who's released so many classic songs, songs that any other artist could ever dream of making, be able to continually release ground breaking music. Why can't us Prince fans be happy that we have such an amazing vast back catalogue to dip into, instead of just constantly complaining about his new stuff.

Another complaint i've heard is that his 90's stuff was not as good, but if you listen to it in retrospect most artists would give their right arm to be able to make music to that standard.. and that's music from an artist who reached his peak years before.

It seems there is a stigma attached to every Prince album. Fans expect so much from each release that it diminishes the fact that each album is not as bad as people think. For example, OutKast released the 'Love Below' album and Andre 3000 was hailed as a genius and the next Prince. Yet around the same time Prince released 'The Gold Album'. For me, this album pisses all over 'Love Below', and had it been released by any other artist it would have been hailed a masterpiece.. yet all plaudits were given to the OutKast album.

Even his most recent music has been of a good standard. As i mentioned before, it's subjective. But for me, his current music is still of a good standard and i enjoy each new release.

I personally think that we should just be thankful Prince is still making music. It may not be the Prince album you wanted to hear, it may not even be up to his previous standards, but Prince can only do what he can do. You can never accusing him of being lazy or a cop out in his music, because he's always wanted to try different genres of music.

He's even trying out his old Linn synth sound with the MPLS and 20ten albums to please his fans who missed that stuff.. so cut the guy some slack.

It's worth remembering the numerous back catalogue of albums you can listen to, the numerous concert films, with that great dancing etc. The amazing B-sides, stuff that would be worthy of single release, the *cough* amazing bootlegs.

It's a wealth of music to be getting on with, Why complain?

[Edited 2/3/11 11:48am]

.

[Edited 1/25/17 14:29pm]

Spinlight said:

Whiskas31 said:

I'm not going to get into an argument over the semantics of my post. You and anyone else are entitled to their opinion, i respect that. I'm merely expressing my opinion regarding the matter.

Your opinion is laced with vicious judgment and presumption.

You're dedicating a post about people criticizing Prince and then criticizing them within, even going as far as to assume what people know or don't know or want or don't want.

Let it alone. It's wonderful you have an opinion, but we're now not discussing the merits of it because you choose to let judgments fly and then expect.... What? This is an open letter to disatisfied fans? It doesn't apply to most people here. NO one asked for a perfect record.

Yes, my argument is based on presumption. The definition of presumption is when you make an opinion based on fact. Unfortunately from years of viewing posts and seeing reaction from certain fans, i've noticed that a few people DO expect a perfect record. You look at posts on this site and you can clearly see it.

I certainly didn't want to sound 'vicious' in any way, that was not my intention. My perception of an average prince fan being spoilt is hardly vicious. I never made any personal dig at them. I'm not implying that they are spoilt generally, how could i know. I'm merely stating my opinion with regards to Prince fandom.

How can it be possible to define presumption as vicious anyway? Assumption can be deemed as vicious because it's based on inconclusive idea or word of mouth, but not presumption.

I certainly don't mean to generalise with my post, i apologise if it came across that way. I can see a lot of fans agree with what i'm saying but i can only comment on what i see from a large number of posts.

My criticism regarding the fans who critize Prince is a completely different argument. I think these fans are unfair to be critical of someone who has produced so much body of work. When did i ever make an assumption that i know or do not know what a Prince fan wants? I stated in my post that he may release an album that is not liked or not what is expected, but it's still his work and it's unfair to expect something you personally want.

That's not making assumptions, that's just clearly stating that i find it unfair to be critical of someone who cannot meet their expectations.

Whiskas31 said:

Spinlight said:

Your opinion is laced with vicious judgment and presumption.

You're dedicating a post about people criticizing Prince and then criticizing them within, even going as far as to assume what people know or don't know or want or don't want.

Let it alone. It's wonderful you have an opinion, but we're now not discussing the merits of it because you choose to let judgments fly and then expect.... What? This is an open letter to disatisfied fans? It doesn't apply to most people here. NO one asked for a perfect record.

Yes, my argument is based on presumption. The definition of presumption is when you make an opinion based on fact. Unfortunately from years of viewing posts and seeing reaction from certain fans, i've noticed that a few people DO expect a perfect record. You look at posts on this site and you can clearly see it.

I certainly didn't want to sound 'vicious' in any way, that was not my intention. My perception of an average prince fan being spoilt is hardly vicious. I never made any personal dig at them. I'm not implying that they are spoilt generally, how could i know. I'm merely stating my opinion with regards to Prince fandom.

How can it be possible to define presumption as vicious anyway? Assumption can be deemed as vicious because it's based on inconclusive idea or word of mouth, but not presumption.

I certainly don't mean to generalise with my post, i apologise if it came across that way. I can see a lot of fans agree with what i'm saying but i can only comment on what i see from a large number of posts.

My criticism regarding the fans who critize Prince is a completely different argument. I think these fans are unfair to be critical of someone who has produced so much body of work. When did i ever make an assumption that i know or do not know what a Prince fan wants? I stated in my post that he may release an album that is not liked or not what is expected, but it's still his work and it's unfair to expect something you personally want.

That's not making assumptions, that's just clearly stating that i find it unfair to be critical of someone who cannot meet their expectations.

You don't know people's expectations, though. You paint with too wide a brush, methinks. Better to just let people be people and if they like something, they like it. If not, whatever. It's not pertinent or necessary to insinuate that people just aren't giving Prince enough credit.

In fact, I think people give Prince MORE credit than he's entitled to. He's still out there, making brand new records, being a pimp. Doing what he does. He's not one of those other artists you list and part of that is that Prince is still a "working man" celebrity and those others are not. They don't need to be because they made wise business choices and Prince, thus far, has made very few wise business choices. Simply because someone makes it out of a situation relatively unscathed doesn't make their operations smooth or legit.

Here's what I see:

People who fawn over Prince are absolutely intolerant of people who are critical of Prince.

Lots of the time, that works both ways. The critical people are sarcastic and tend to make fun of the fawning people because they mimic Prince, they envision themselves having sex with Prince, they type in Princebonics, they try to run with concepts Prince laid down once in an album years ago only to never touch back on the subject again, they are hyper-interested in Prince's personal life from his mates to his geneaology (!!!!!!!!), they inquire about what his baby would've looked like if it were living today (incidentally, it would be turning 15 soon), etc.

Conversely, the critical people are accused of being impossible to please, "spoiled", arrogant, elitist, rude, unhappy, miserable, miserly, maladjusted, misinformed, and myopic. That's a LOT of personal judgment being placed upon someone you don't even know. There is no reason you should accuse people who are critical of Prince of being anything but sure of the music they want to hear. Whether Prince releases it or not is immaterial.

If you like/love all of his releases and you are able to lower your expectations to accept a subpar outing from our boy, then good for you. Your cup runneth over.

I stopped at "spoilt"

Shorty said:

I stopped at "spoilt"

While not the typical american spelling, that is correct anyway.

lopez568 said:

An interesting post. I was thinking the same thing recently myself...

When Prince releases a new album (almost every year), after about a week or two "fans" are already calling for his next. Sometimes there's no pleasing them.

You are right though, he does SO much for his fans and works so hard and the fact that he's constantly touring high profile shows, making music that can only truly compete with his own and at the same time never selling out to become "commercial" it's surprising he's not the world's most celebrated musician.

Just my 2p on the matter :p

I see that a lot of times, in threads like these and I keep asking, "What exactly is it that he does SO much of...for his fans?" but I can never seem to get a straight answer.

They usually consist of ramblings about concerts...and being grateful that he allows us the priviledge to spend our money...on the honor of basking in his presence...but if you have a different answer...I'd really like to know.

.

[Edited 2/3/11 14:04pm]

Spinlight said:

Whiskas31 said:

Yes, my argument is based on presumption. The definition of presumption is when you make an opinion based on fact. Unfortunately from years of viewing posts and seeing reaction from certain fans, i've noticed that a few people DO expect a perfect record. You look at posts on this site and you can clearly see it.

I certainly didn't want to sound 'vicious' in any way, that was not my intention. My perception of an average prince fan being spoilt is hardly vicious. I never made any personal dig at them. I'm not implying that they are spoilt generally, how could i know. I'm merely stating my opinion with regards to Prince fandom.

How can it be possible to define presumption as vicious anyway? Assumption can be deemed as vicious because it's based on inconclusive idea or word of mouth, but not presumption.

I certainly don't mean to generalise with my post, i apologise if it came across that way. I can see a lot of fans agree with what i'm saying but i can only comment on what i see from a large number of posts.

My criticism regarding the fans who critize Prince is a completely different argument. I think these fans are unfair to be critical of someone who has produced so much body of work. When did i ever make an assumption that i know or do not know what a Prince fan wants? I stated in my post that he may release an album that is not liked or not what is expected, but it's still his work and it's unfair to expect something you personally want.

That's not making assumptions, that's just clearly stating that i find it unfair to be critical of someone who cannot meet their expectations.

You don't know people's expectations, though. You paint with too wide a brush, methinks. Better to just let people be people and if they like something, they like it. If not, whatever. It's not pertinent or necessary to insinuate that people just aren't giving Prince enough credit.

In fact, I think people give Prince MORE credit than he's entitled to. He's still out there, making brand new records, being a pimp. Doing what he does. He's not one of those other artists you list and part of that is that Prince is still a "working man" celebrity and those others are not. They don't need to be because they made wise business choices and Prince, thus far, has made very few wise business choices. Simply because someone makes it out of a situation relatively unscathed doesn't make their operations smooth or legit.

Here's what I see:

People who fawn over Prince are absolutely intolerant of people who are critical of Prince.

Lots of the time, that works both ways. The critical people are sarcastic and tend to make fun of the fawning people because they mimic Prince, they envision themselves having sex with Prince, they type in Princebonics, they try to run with concepts Prince laid down once in an album years ago only to never touch back on the subject again, they are hyper-interested in Prince's personal life from his mates to his geneaology (!!!!!!!!), they inquire about what his baby would've looked like if it were living today (incidentally, it would be turning 15 soon), etc.

Conversely, the critical people are accused of being impossible to please, "spoiled", arrogant, elitist, rude, unhappy, miserable, miserly, maladjusted, misinformed, and myopic. That's a LOT of personal judgment being placed upon someone you don't even know. There is no reason you should accuse people who are critical of Prince of being anything but sure of the music they want to hear. Whether Prince releases it or not is immaterial.

If you like/love all of his releases and you are able to lower your expectations to accept a subpar outing from our boy, then good for you. Your cup runneth over.

You accuse me of talking the opinion that i think fans are, as you put it "impossible to please, "spoiled", arrogant, elitist, rude, unhappy, miserable, miserly, maladjusted, misinformed, and myopic.

It now seems you are the one making assumptions about my opinions, thus making your arguments hypocritical.

I certainly don't know about peoples expectations, i'm merely stating in my post that i think it's unfair of people to expect so much from someone who has given so much. I wouldn't expect it from anyone.

You clearly don't seem to be reading my replies, as i've made this quite clear. You just seem to be wanting to incite an argument. You state that i'm making 'personal' judgement on people, yet i explained that i wasn't in a previous reply. How many times do i have to reiterate my points to you? I'm happy to discuss your opinions and you make some great points but you are making assumptions about me (not presumptions) that i don't appreciate.

And please don't argue the fact that i'm making assumptions about Prince fans, because as i mentioned before, assumption and presumption are two different things.

I certainly don't fawn over Prince, I don't listen to every new album and say it's the greatest thing ever. If people do think Prince is given more credit than he's due, then fair enough. I'm not asking everyone in the world to be a Prince fan, but if you are a fan then you obviously appreciate his music and because of this, why not remember all the great stuff he's done?

Shorty said:

I stopped at "spoilt"

haha fair enough.

Whiskas31 said:

Without trying to offend any Prince fans, i really believe we are the most spoilt and least appreciative of all fans.

Without trying to come across as sycophantic, i think Prince has done far more than enough in his career to warrant having to keep his fans 'happy'.Throughout Princes career he has delivered literally an album a year, unheard of for most music artists.

Each album has always tried to do something different from the last. Whether they were successful is subjective, but he has never been predictable. A perfect example of this is when Prince gave us Around the World in a Day, because he didn't want to go the 'easy road' and release a Purple Rain pt. 2. At the time fans complained about that album, yet these days many people rate it as a great album and celebrate the fact that he was extremely brave in releasing that album.

One of the great things about Princes work is the diversity of his music. If you listen to many artists, they will happily churn out album after album without deviating from their sound. It is doubtful that any other artist has released such a wide range of music in such a range of musical styles. Yet each time Prince releases a new album, there is always a complaint that he doesn't use enough Linn drumming on the album or it there isn't enough guitars.

It seems that Prince fans love him for the diversity of his music, as long as it fits in with their idea of a perfect Prince album. It's a catch 22 situation. Prince put it perfectly in one interview when someone asked him if he would ever release a 1999 sounding album again, he replied that if they wanted that sound they should just listen to the 1999 album.

I even hear fans saying that Prince should hire a producer to keep up to date with current music. I'm sure if he did, fans would complain it's not really a Prince album because it wouldn't have that 'Prince sound'. The irony being that many new artists are now trying to emulate that Prince production sound.

Recently, Prince has obviously been listening to his fans (despite the many complaints that he just doesn't care) by releasing both a guitar led album Lotus Flower AND MPLS album, with crap loads of synths and Linn drums, yet as usual his fans just complain that it's not as good as XXX etc.

It is a general consensus that Prince's music isn't as good as his 80's stuff. How could it be? How many of the great artists have ever consistently been on the top of their game throughout their careers. Take for example the great Stevie Wonder. He has released some of the greatest albums and songs, yet he hasn't really released anything recently that even touches those greats. But his fans don't complain, and why should they? As with Prince, Stevie has given us such amazing music, how could anyone consistently keep to such high standards.

Yet us spolit Prince fans expect it, why? How can one man, who's released so many classic songs, songs that any other artist could ever dream of making, be able to continually release ground breaking music. Why can't us Prince fans be happy that we have such an amazing vast back catalogue to dip into, instead of just constantly complaining about his new stuff.

Another complaint i've heard is that his 90's stuff was not as good, but if you listen to it in retrospect most artists would give their right arm to be able to make music to that standard.. and that's music from an artist who reached his peak years before.

It seems there is a stigma attached to every Prince album. Fans expect so much from each release that it diminishes the fact that each album is not as bad as people think. For example, OutKast released the 'Love Below' album and Andre 3000 was hailed as a genius and the next Prince. Yet around the same time Prince released 'The Gold Album'. For me, this album pisses all over 'Love Below', and had it been released by any other artist it would have been hailed a masterpiece.. yet all plaudits were given to the OutKast album.

Even his most recent music has been of a good standard. As i mentioned before, it's subjective. But for me, his current music is still of a good standard and i enjoy each new release.

I personally think that we should just be thankful Prince is still making music. It may not be the Prince album you wanted to hear, it may not even be up to his previous standards, but Prince can only do what he can do. You can never accusing him of being lazy or a cop out in his music, because he's always wanted to try different genres of music.

He's even trying out his old Linn synth sound with the MPLS and 20ten albums to please his fans who missed that stuff.. so cut the guy some slack.

It's worth remembering the numerous back catalogue of albums you can listen to, the numerous concert films, with that great dancing etc. The amazing B-sides, stuff that would be worthy of single release, the *cough* amazing bootlegs.

It's a wealth of music to be getting on with, Why complain?

[Edited 2/3/11 11:48am]

I completely agree! 100 percent!!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

lopez568 said:

An interesting post. I was thinking the same thing recently myself...

When Prince releases a new album (almost every year), after about a week or two "fans" are already calling for his next. Sometimes there's no pleasing them.

You are right though, he does SO much for his fans and works so hard and the fact that he's constantly touring high profile shows, making music that can only truly compete with his own and at the same time never selling out to become "commercial" it's surprising he's not the world's most celebrated musician.

Just my 2p on the matter :p

I see that a lot of times, in threads like these and I keep asking, "What exactly is it that he does SO much of...for his fans?" but I can never seem to get a straight answer.

They usually consist of ramblings about concerts...and being grateful that he allows us the priviledge to spend our money...on the honor of basking in his presence...but if you have a different answer...I'd really like to know.

.

[Edited 2/3/11 14:04pm]

But no one is asking you to spend your money!

Whiskas31 said:

Spinlight said:

You don't know people's expectations, though. You paint with too wide a brush, methinks. Better to just let people be people and if they like something, they like it. If not, whatever. It's not pertinent or necessary to insinuate that people just aren't giving Prince enough credit.

In fact, I think people give Prince MORE credit than he's entitled to. He's still out there, making brand new records, being a pimp. Doing what he does. He's not one of those other artists you list and part of that is that Prince is still a "working man" celebrity and those others are not. They don't need to be because they made wise business choices and Prince, thus far, has made very few wise business choices. Simply because someone makes it out of a situation relatively unscathed doesn't make their operations smooth or legit.

Here's what I see:

People who fawn over Prince are absolutely intolerant of people who are critical of Prince.

Lots of the time, that works both ways. The critical people are sarcastic and tend to make fun of the fawning people because they mimic Prince, they envision themselves having sex with Prince, they type in Princebonics, they try to run with concepts Prince laid down once in an album years ago only to never touch back on the subject again, they are hyper-interested in Prince's personal life from his mates to his geneaology (!!!!!!!!), they inquire about what his baby would've looked like if it were living today (incidentally, it would be turning 15 soon), etc.

Conversely, the critical people are accused of being impossible to please, "spoiled", arrogant, elitist, rude, unhappy, miserable, miserly, maladjusted, misinformed, and myopic. That's a LOT of personal judgment being placed upon someone you don't even know. There is no reason you should accuse people who are critical of Prince of being anything but sure of the music they want to hear. Whether Prince releases it or not is immaterial.

If you like/love all of his releases and you are able to lower your expectations to accept a subpar outing from our boy, then good for you. Your cup runneth over.

You accuse me of talking the opinion that i think fans are, as you put it "impossible to please, "spoiled", arrogant, elitist, rude, unhappy, miserable, miserly, maladjusted, misinformed, and myopic.

It now seems you are the one making assumptions about my opinions, thus making your arguments hypocritical.

I certainly don't know about peoples expectations, i'm merely stating in my post that i think it's unfair of people to expect so much from someone who has given so much. I wouldn't expect it from anyone.

You clearly don't seem to be reading my replies, as i've made this quite clear. You just seem to be wanting to incite an argument. You state that i'm making 'personal' judgement on people, yet i explained that i wasn't in a previous reply. How many times do i have to reiterate my points to you? I'm happy to discuss your opinions and you make some great points but you are making assumptions about me (not presumptions) that i don't appreciate.

And please don't argue the fact that i'm making assumptions about Prince fans, because as i mentioned before, assumption and presumption are two different things.

I certainly don't fawn over Prince, I don't listen to every new album and say it's the greatest thing ever. If people do think Prince is given more credit than he's due, then fair enough. I'm not asking everyone in the world to be a Prince fan, but if you are a fan then you obviously appreciate his music and because of this, why not remember all the great stuff he's done?

My argument isn't hypocritical, though. I'm not making assumptions; those actual words have been spoken on these here boards. Anyone acting as even a passing witness to some of these discussions can attest to that. You cannot point me to a thread where someone states they want Prince to release a perfect record.

Your entire post is an argument about why people should not act the way they do and why they should act the way YOU do. This is opinion vs opinion, once again. And a concept that many people who, like you, apologize for Prince will often have.

You're 100% right Whiskas.

What I don't understand is the people who are negative the majority of the time. Why waste your time talking about things you DON'T like? There's plenty of things I don't like in the world yet I don't feel the need to spend hours discussing them.

[Edited 2/3/11 14:24pm]

Spinlight said:

Whiskas31 said:

You accuse me of talking the opinion that i think fans are, as you put it "impossible to please, "spoiled", arrogant, elitist, rude, unhappy, miserable, miserly, maladjusted, misinformed, and myopic.

It now seems you are the one making assumptions about my opinions, thus making your arguments hypocritical.

I certainly don't know about peoples expectations, i'm merely stating in my post that i think it's unfair of people to expect so much from someone who has given so much. I wouldn't expect it from anyone.

You clearly don't seem to be reading my replies, as i've made this quite clear. You just seem to be wanting to incite an argument. You state that i'm making 'personal' judgement on people, yet i explained that i wasn't in a previous reply. How many times do i have to reiterate my points to you? I'm happy to discuss your opinions and you make some great points but you are making assumptions about me (not presumptions) that i don't appreciate.

And please don't argue the fact that i'm making assumptions about Prince fans, because as i mentioned before, assumption and presumption are two different things.

I certainly don't fawn over Prince, I don't listen to every new album and say it's the greatest thing ever. If people do think Prince is given more credit than he's due, then fair enough. I'm not asking everyone in the world to be a Prince fan, but if you are a fan then you obviously appreciate his music and because of this, why not remember all the great stuff he's done?

My argument isn't hypocritical, though. I'm not making assumptions; those actual words have been spoken on these here boards. Anyone acting as even a passing witness to some of these discussions can attest to that. You cannot point me to a thread where someone states they want Prince to release a perfect record.

Your entire post is an argument about why people should not act the way they do and why they should act the way YOU do. This is opinion vs opinion, once again. And a concept that many people who, like you, apologize for Prince will often have.

Judging by your wording, you are implicating that those opinions were the same as ones held by myself, hence the hipocracy.

If you want me to find a post where someone is asking for 'a perfect record' as an absolute, then no i probably wouldn't find one. But again, reiterating myself, that's not my point.

It's tiresome having a discussion with someone who doesn't feel the need to read my responses, to me that's not a reasoned argument, just a one sided response. I agree it's opinion vs opinion, i'm listening to your points and commenting. You just seem to be reading my argument to fit in with what you think i'm saying.

And again, you are making assumption that i'm apologising for Prince, how am i in any way apologising?