dalsh327 said:

He needs to let Rhino deal with selling/distributing the music on CD and vinyl, and use internet and satellite radio to keep his music out there 24/7.

I think he meant selling music over the internet was dead, but this was at the end of 15 years of trying different things out on the internet.

It would be great to have a 24 hour Prince channel on Sirius/XM, including airing live concerts as well as everything in the vault. And he would've gotten paid. Springsteen and the Stones got their checks and didn't have to do much on their end. All they would need to do is put up a schedule, but it would've been great to hear members of the band playing their favorite songs, doing a radio show, Prince stopping in, or even basing the show out of Paisley Park which would've been possible.

Prince has 5 or 6 greatest hits albums, but AC/DC? Zero. They have enough pull to stop their label from releasing hits packages. The closest you get is the Iron Man 2 soundtrack and the DVD of their videos over the years.

I honestly don't think Prince is big enough of a draw for SiriusXM to bother with putting together an entire Prince channel. We know all of his songs, but most people know about 5, and actively dislike the rest when they hear them, which is a much different thing than Elvis, the Who, the Stones or even Springsteen. I suppose they could do a channel theoretically programmed by Prince, much like Eminem's "Shade 45," where he could play his own music, music that influenced him or current stuff out there that he digs. But having seen how must of Prince's business dealings have gone, there's no way in hell that Mel Karmazin or Scott Greenstein is going to put up with him for more than 5 minutes.

errant said:

dalsh327 said:

He needs to let Rhino deal with selling/distributing the music on CD and vinyl, and use internet and satellite radio to keep his music out there 24/7.

I think he meant selling music over the internet was dead, but this was at the end of 15 years of trying different things out on the internet.

It would be great to have a 24 hour Prince channel on Sirius/XM, including airing live concerts as well as everything in the vault. And he would've gotten paid. Springsteen and the Stones got their checks and didn't have to do much on their end. All they would need to do is put up a schedule, but it would've been great to hear members of the band playing their favorite songs, doing a radio show, Prince stopping in, or even basing the show out of Paisley Park which would've been possible.

Prince has 5 or 6 greatest hits albums, but AC/DC? Zero. They have enough pull to stop their label from releasing hits packages. The closest you get is the Iron Man 2 soundtrack and the DVD of their videos over the years.

I honestly don't think Prince is big enough of a draw for SiriusXM to bother with putting together an entire Prince channel. We know all of his songs, but most people know about 5, and actively dislike the rest when they hear them, which is a much different thing than Elvis, the Who, the Stones or even Springsteen. I suppose they could do a channel theoretically programmed by Prince, much like Eminem's "Shade 45," where he could play his own music, music that influenced him or current stuff out there that he digs. But having seen how must of Prince's business dealings have gone, there's no way in hell that Mel Karmazin or Scott Greenstein is going to put up with him for more than 5 minutes.

Who are "most people"? This is a HUGE assumption/generalization.

skywalker said:

errant said:

I honestly don't think Prince is big enough of a draw for SiriusXM to bother with putting together an entire Prince channel. We know all of his songs, but most people know about 5, and actively dislike the rest when they hear them, which is a much different thing than Elvis, the Who, the Stones or even Springsteen. I suppose they could do a channel theoretically programmed by Prince, much like Eminem's "Shade 45," where he could play his own music, music that influenced him or current stuff out there that he digs. But having seen how must of Prince's business dealings have gone, there's no way in hell that Mel Karmazin or Scott Greenstein is going to put up with him for more than 5 minutes.

Who are "most people"? This is a HUGE assumption/generalization.

20+ years of personal experience tells me so.

But I did forget to mention that Prince is a "grower" on people. You'd just have to get people to be willing to pay attention to get beyond the 5 to 10 big hits. And SiriusXM is only interested in programming in order to bring *subscribers* to the table. I really don't see a Prince channel driving up subscriptions by any more than the few hundred, maybe a thousand, in the US and Canada that frequent prince.org.

errant said:

skywalker said:

Who are "most people"? This is a HUGE assumption/generalization.

20+ years of personal experience tells me so.

But I did forget to mention that Prince is a "grower" on people. You'd just have to get people to be willing to pay attention to get beyond the 5 to 10 big hits. And SiriusXM is only interested in programming in order to bring *subscribers* to the table. I really don't see a Prince channel driving up subscriptions by any more than the few hundred, maybe a thousand, in the US and Canada that frequent prince.org.

Alright. Maybe you should clarify the fact that "most people" is really limited to the relatively small group of folks simply called "people you know".

skywalker said:

errant said:

20+ years of personal experience tells me so.

But I did forget to mention that Prince is a "grower" on people. You'd just have to get people to be willing to pay attention to get beyond the 5 to 10 big hits. And SiriusXM is only interested in programming in order to bring *subscribers* to the table. I really don't see a Prince channel driving up subscriptions by any more than the few hundred, maybe a thousand, in the US and Canada that frequent prince.org.

Alright. Maybe you should clarify the fact that "most people" is really limited to the relatively small group of folks simply called "people you know".

and you've had a different experience?

errant said:

skywalker said:

Alright. Maybe you should clarify the fact that "most people" is really limited to the relatively small group of folks simply called "people you know".

and you've had a different experience?

I have. I mean, the people I know (usually) either like Prince, or they don't. They certainly don't like a handful (5 to 10?) of Prince's songs and dislike the rest. Even the "casual" Prince fan can name me a dozen or more Prince songs they like. The dude has a lot of famous/well liked songs. "Too many hits," may be more than just a cocky catchphrase.

You talk about, Elvis, The Stones, The Who, and Bruce. I think that they all (by in large) appeal to an older/whiter/working class/male/classic rock crowd than Prince does.

That said, Prince is a giant in the music world the same as those guys....the success of the shows he is currently doing at Madison Square Garden (and to a large extent his commercial renaissance since 2004) goes along way to illustrating his lasting appeal. People don't show up in droves and fork over that much money to see a guy that only has 5 songs that they like.

Honestly, I think "lesser" artists have their own channel and it could work from Prince. Lord know he has enough material for it.

[Edited 1/19/11 17:45pm]

I for one would be down with a Prince XM/Sirius channel.

I could work very well . . . play Prince music most of the time (some album, some live), mix in related artists, and maybe even a DJ hour a la the Ahdio Shows from NPGMC.

errant said:

Militant said:

Chas, a LOT of musicians, ESPECIALLY independent ones like Prince, don't like iTunes.

Why? Well first of all, you don't get any metric data on sales. No list of email addresses of fans who bought your album for your database. No geographical sales breakdown except for country, which is useless.

Secondly, Apple take what is perceived to be an unfair cut. 35% of each song and album sale. Their service isn't anywhere NEAR good enough to justify that. You think Prince is ready to give away 35% of each sale for no reason? HELLLLLLLL NO! Why should he?

Thirdly, you play by THEIR rules in terms of how much promotion you get. If you want song of the week, album of the week, track of the day, or whatever fucking promotions they offer these days, it's up to them to make the call, and you better kiss some ass to get it. I've heard this directly from major label execs themselves. They all hate the system and having to bend to Apple's will. You think Prince is gonna bend to ANYONE's will for good promotion? Nope.

Fourthly - Apple won't pay Prince upfront for iTunes sales. Target will, and did. The Daily Mail will, and did. The Daily Mirror will, and did. Rolling Stone will, and DID. Fans will, and did. So why exactly should Prince go with iTunes again? When as soon as the album is released, people are gonna stick it on blogs and torrents for free, and reduce Prince's income from sales? Upfront payments means Prince doesn't give a fuck about people bootlegging it. He got paid. The downside is that he (arguably) doesn't give a fuck about promotion either. He got paid.

It doesn't matter anyway though, because iTunes is about to get decimated by Google Music. And unlike Apple, who happened to stumble into being part of the music industry (Oh, all the MP3 player hardware on the market sucks, we'll make one of our own!), Google actually give a damn about doing it right, and already have all the major labels more impressed with their service than Apple, and willing to help them out. I'm going off topic now though so I'll stop and get back to the point - iTunes is laughable to Prince and rightly so. It's laughable to me, and he sells a lot more records than I do

Whether he likes iTunes or not, he's been down the other road too, independently releaseing things on the internet via mail order or download, and he's never happy with the amount of money it makes and the fanbase walks away with a very bad taste in their mouth time after time.

I applaud him for trying to do his own thing and being a pioneer in distributing and promoting his music on the internet in the early days. But at this point, an entire infrastructure has been built up around him and surpassed him, with a system that works very well for the end-user and pretty well for the artist. He could be taking advantage of it. But he's not, because iTunes won't pay him an advance. Talk about an old, failed business model that he, better than anyone, knows leads to problems. The advance system, after all, is exactly the root of everything he was bitching and moaning about the record industry for all those years.

I think he's actually afraid to let his music succeed or fail on its own merits. He wants an advance because he has no faith in the ability of his work to sell, so he can get his money up front and leave someone else holding the ball when they've got backstock of albums (and books) to sell for $5. And if he were to make his money on a merit-based system, such as iTunes or at Amazon or any of the other digital music stores, he might actually have to go out and promote his albums for a change so that they will sell. He tried the advance system, straight from the fans with lotusflow3r.com, and by all accounts it failed miserably, from the fans' perspective and apparently from his, based on what the web developer said. He's now down to releasing his albums solely through Target and a few newspapers in Europe. It may work for him in the short term, for a quick fix of cash, but he is increasingly devaluing his art and career, marginalizing his own music, by not making it readily available to anyone who wants to buy it.

amen

'dre

DreZone said:

errant said:

I think he's actually afraid to let his music succeed or fail on its own merits. He wants an advance because he has no faith in the ability of his work to sell, so he can get his money up front and leave someone else holding the ball when they've got backstock of albums (and books) to sell for $5. And if he were to make his money on a merit-based system, such as iTunes or at Amazon or any of the other digital music stores, he might actually have to go out and promote his albums for a change so that they will sell. He tried the advance system, straight from the fans with lotusflow3r.com, and by all accounts it failed miserably, from the fans' perspective and apparently from his, based on what the web developer said. He's now down to releasing his albums solely through Target and a few newspapers in Europe. It may work for him in the short term, for a quick fix of cash, but he is increasingly devaluing his art and career, marginalizing his own music, by not making it readily available to anyone who wants to buy it.

amen

'dre

Completely off the mark...........

Prince pioneered in the 90's, he had the right idea, the music and the resources to make it a success, but his goal was motivated by the wrong reasons and his means were improper.

Every venture he tried sooner or later ended in a hot mess of broken promises, hordes of disappointed fans, bad customer service and bitterness on all ends. So far there have been no winners in this game. Except for the bootleggers.

Now, these days, when you want to get Prince music legally, especially his newer music, it's near but impossible. Go to the record store and you are lucky if they still sell a couple of his older records. If not, shit out of luck. You just HAVE to go to Amazon, or ebay. Okay, but their offer is limited and be prepared then to pay ridiculous prices for something that could be legally available for much less on his own website. OK, then go to Itunes. Too bad tho'. while you may find some of his more known stuff their offer is also limited.

Here is a man that is considered one of the most talented and greatest rock stars ever, that has 30+ officially released albums, that has more than a dozen hits, that has performed live thousands of times and that has a massive vault of unreleased music, but he is nowhere to be found.

The way I see it there is only one valid reason for this shameful lack of legally available music of one of the most prolific artists alive and that is legal issues, such as contractual disputes with record labels and other artists. But all I am getting from the little that he explains about it, is that it's about money.

-

[Edited 1/21/11 12:31pm]

In a "best of both worlds" scenario, Prince would get paid upfront for the CD by the distributor, then release the album to iTunes and Amazon maybe up to 6 months later.

By doing this, he not only benefits from the initial payment and publicity, but also benefits later when the whole project is seen again on iTunes in the New Releases section. In effect he would get those who didn't buy the first round. Would he make as much on iTunes? NO. But those who buy on iTunes (if he releases later in the year) would not have bought it anyway.

DreZone said:

errant said:

Whether he likes iTunes or not, he's been down the other road too, independently releaseing things on the internet via mail order or download, and he's never happy with the amount of money it makes and the fanbase walks away with a very bad taste in their mouth time after time.

I applaud him for trying to do his own thing and being a pioneer in distributing and promoting his music on the internet in the early days. But at this point, an entire infrastructure has been built up around him and surpassed him, with a system that works very well for the end-user and pretty well for the artist. He could be taking advantage of it. But he's not, because iTunes won't pay him an advance. Talk about an old, failed business model that he, better than anyone, knows leads to problems. The advance system, after all, is exactly the root of everything he was bitching and moaning about the record industry for all those years.

I think he's actually afraid to let his music succeed or fail on its own merits. He wants an advance because he has no faith in the ability of his work to sell, so he can get his money up front and leave someone else holding the ball when they've got backstock of albums (and books) to sell for $5. And if he were to make his money on a merit-based system, such as iTunes or at Amazon or any of the other digital music stores, he might actually have to go out and promote his albums for a change so that they will sell. He tried the advance system, straight from the fans with lotusflow3r.com, and by all accounts it failed miserably, from the fans' perspective and apparently from his, based on what the web developer said. He's now down to releasing his albums solely through Target and a few newspapers in Europe. It may work for him in the short term, for a quick fix of cash, but he is increasingly devaluing his art and career, marginalizing his own music, by not making it readily available to anyone who wants to buy it.

amen

'dre

I agree. It's sad because I know countless people, including myself, who want the new music first-hand, but are slowly losing interest because of the limited access to it. Target and Walmart have two of his cd's on their shelves at best. Most music stores have closed their doors. Itunes has about 50 songs I bought 15 years ago. And the music industry is DOA. Perfect scenario for a simple purchase based website. No sign-up fee, no chat room, no advance order albums. Just funky music straight from the studio or stage to his fans. I don't even care about the artwork or packaging. Slap a copyright on a CD-R or DVD-R and mass ship it.

...Alright I'm done dreaming.