funksterr said:

Target is no hard to find mom and pop chain. They are as bigtime as it gets (except for Wal-Mart) literally millions of people shop in Target stores everyday. And they promoted the hell out of LotusFlower from what I saw. The record was definitely easy to find. Promotion and availability are not the issues. Literally millions of people saw the record and decided NOT to buy it. Even at super-low discount prices. I wonder why that is.

The records.

The one which was supposed to be "consumer friendly" felt condescending, manipulative, uninspired, cheap, lazy and was flagrantly and obscenely pandering to the lowest common denominator.

The Lotusflow3r disk I thought was great. But obviously not a mass consumption affair. This disk even went over the heads of most national pop music reviewers who are used to reviewing Justin Beiber and Christina Aguilera and were thrown out of their comfort zone.

The third disk was by someone that I can't remember off hand or much anything else about.

[Edited 12/15/10 11:48am]

asg said:

Billboard top 200

188 PRINCE LOTUS FLOW3R 6,775 71 3,961 500,251

may we leave base camp to the highest peak,

you may to take over the intersectionto 8000 m

would you ?

tohight is beautiful song so as all other

is my favorite album

funksterr said:

Target is no hard to find mom and pop chain. They are as bigtime as it gets (except for Wal-Mart) literally millions of people shop in Target stores everyday. And they promoted the hell out of LotusFlower from what I saw. The record was definitely easy to find. Promotion and availability are not the issues. Literally millions of people saw the record and decided NOT to buy it. Even at super-low discount prices. I wonder why that is.

Big time or not, being available in one location is still only one location. You mention the millions that theoretically saw the record (and WHO buys a record, not knowing even a single track on it, JUST because it's sitting in front of them? ) but completely ignore the multiple millions that DID not see the record by the very fact it wasn't available elsewhere. I have a Target less than 5 miles from me and I barely go in there once a year, if that. If I wasn't a reasonably active Prince fan, I'd likely never know about the album.

There was no longterm, major promotion outside of the store. There was a commercial that aired selectively for a couple of weeks, and a couple of talk show appearances in the same time frame.

For every one else, the promotion was non-existant.

...but beyond that, what, to you, is a good selling Prince record in the last 10-15 years?

1996 Chaos & Disorder 150,000
1996 Emancipation 700,000
1998 Crystal Ball 125,000
1998 Newpower Soul 225,000
1999 The Vault 125,000
1999 Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 500,000
2001 The Rainbow Children 175,000
2004 Musicology 1,000,000
2006 3121 550,000

2007 Planet Earth 300,000

2009 LotusFlow3r 500,000

LF was sold in a single chain, not even regularly on Amazon, and sold comparatively to 3121 (168k vs 183k first week, both eventually going GOLD). Given the track record for a Prince release in the last decade, it was done well - better than most. If it had regular availability it would like have sold much better.

funksterr said:

lezama said:

Sorry but thats bullshit. The albums were stronger than some of his past ones that sold a lot better. Albums don't sell if people don't know they exist. The promotion for it was little to nothing, the radio play for it was little to nothing, Prince's touring for it was little to nothing. Of course it didn't sell well. Duuuh!

So you disagree about why it didn't perform, but agree that it didn't sell well? That's all I am saying. Gold status is bad news not good news. As far as promotion "little or next to nothing" is an overstatement. I think an endcap and in-store promotion at Target, television commercials, The Tonight Show, Target's weekly flyer is as good as you are going to get. It should have reached gold status in under 2 - 4 months if there was any kind of demand for it. And it should definitely never sell for less than the cost of a gallon of milk.

Yes I agree it didn't sell huge numbers. But the pertinent question is how many albums go gold with very little zero radio play? 1 out of maybe 50,000 people might know what song Better with Time is who didn't learn it from buying the album...

How many videos did he allow to get any play? How many record stations did he pop into? Prince performed a total of 5 times in the US in 2009. Thats not pushing your album. Sorry. Especially when we know what it looks like when he actually IS interested in promoting an album (Musicology was the last real example).

V10LETBLUES said:

funksterr said:

Target is no hard to find mom and pop chain. They are as bigtime as it gets (except for Wal-Mart) literally millions of people shop in Target stores everyday. And they promoted the hell out of LotusFlower from what I saw. The record was definitely easy to find. Promotion and availability are not the issues. Literally millions of people saw the record and decided NOT to buy it. Even at super-low discount prices. I wonder why that is.

The records.

How are the records the reason why people decided not to buy them when they didn't even know whats on them? I don't go to Target that often but I dont think they have music listening stations where I am.

The masses didn't buy them because they either don't like Prince, they had no idea what was on the CDs or they think only his early stuff is worth buying...

jtfolden said:

funksterr said:

Target is no hard to find mom and pop chain. They are as bigtime as it gets (except for Wal-Mart) literally millions of people shop in Target stores everyday. And they promoted the hell out of LotusFlower from what I saw. The record was definitely easy to find. Promotion and availability are not the issues. Literally millions of people saw the record and decided NOT to buy it. Even at super-low discount prices. I wonder why that is.

Big time or not, being available in one location is still only one location. You mention the millions that theoretically saw the record (and WHO buys a record, not knowing even a single track on it, JUST because it's sitting in front of them? ) but completely ignore the multiple millions that DID not see the record by the very fact it wasn't available elsewhere. I have a Target less than 5 miles from me and I barely go in there once a year, if that. If I wasn't a reasonably active Prince fan, I'd likely never know about the album.

There was no longterm, major promotion outside of the store. There was a commercial that aired selectively for a couple of weeks, and a couple of talk show appearances in the same time frame.

For every one else, the promotion was non-existant.

...but beyond that, what, to you, is a good selling Prince record in the last 10-15 years?

1996 Chaos & Disorder 150,000
1996 Emancipation 700,000
1998 Crystal Ball 125,000
1998 Newpower Soul 225,000
1999 The Vault 125,000
1999 Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 500,000
2001 The Rainbow Children 175,000
2004 Musicology 1,000,000
2006 3121 550,000

2007 Planet Earth 300,000

2009 LotusFlow3r 500,000

LF was sold in a single chain, not even regularly on Amazon, and sold comparatively to 3121 (168k vs 183k first week, both eventually going GOLD). Given the track record for a Prince release in the last decade, it was done well - better than most. If it had regular availability it would like have sold much better.

It is not unheard of for an act to release an album exclusively to one retailer and go platinum within a month if not a couple of weeks. Lotus's gold status is a bogus number really because it is selling for like 1/30th the cost of most 3 cd sets.

lezama said:

funksterr said:

So you disagree about why it didn't perform, but agree that it didn't sell well? That's all I am saying. Gold status is bad news not good news. As far as promotion "little or next to nothing" is an overstatement. I think an endcap and in-store promotion at Target, television commercials, The Tonight Show, Target's weekly flyer is as good as you are going to get. It should have reached gold status in under 2 - 4 months if there was any kind of demand for it. And it should definitely never sell for less than the cost of a gallon of milk.

Yes I agree it didn't sell huge numbers. But the pertinent question is how many albums go gold with very little zero radio play? 1 out of maybe 50,000 people might know what song Better with Time is who didn't learn it from buying the album...

How many videos did he allow to get any play? How many record stations did he pop into? Prince performed a total of 5 times in the US in 2009. Thats not pushing your album. Sorry. Especially when we know what it looks like when he actually IS interested in promoting an album (Musicology was the last real example).

I agree with everything you said. Prince didn't really do everything, we might expect to promote the album, but I now suspect he does that on purpose when he sees the record isn't meeting expectations. He has appeared to have under-promoted several albums over the last couple of decades.

funksterr said:

It is not unheard of for an act to release an album exclusively to one retailer and go platinum within a month if not a couple of weeks.

Sure... more popular, more promoted acts. Prince is neither a popular seller nor, typically, as well promoted as those acts...and when he is, often not as commercial.

If you want to compare Prince's sales to those artists then he's been putting forth generally dismal numbers since the album. However, compared to his own sales of late it could be a lot worse.

Lotus's gold status is a bogus number really because it is selling for like 1/30th the cost of most 3 cd sets.

It's only bogus if the Gold status was obtained by selling 167k and multiplying by 3 (in the way Emancipation's certification was artificially inflated for being a triple CD set). However, it's my understanding this was not the case due to pricing and, possibly, length.

funksterr said:

I agree with everything you said. Prince didn't really do everything, we might expect to promote the album, but I now suspect he does that on purpose when he sees the record isn't meeting expectations. He has appeared to have under-promoted several albums over the last couple of decades.

I, actually, don't think this has to do with how well it is received but rather simply where he is artistically and financially. Prince quickly grows bored with projects and sometimes, by the time they are released (TGE, 20Ten), he's working on the next (or the next 3 albums) ahead.

WB was frustrated with this same behavior from him, wanting to push out new material when he still had a new album to push and Prince has, more than once, indicated that it's up to the label to do the promotion (such as his comments on Rave), etc...

When he gets paid in advance for albums, he REALLY seems to lose interest quick.

On those rare occasions when he really pushes something, like SOTT, D&P or Musicology, it seems to be out of a desire to 'prove' his chart/financial viability after previously disappointing outings (Parade, Graffiti Bridge, TRC).

jtfolden said:

funksterr said:

It is not unheard of for an act to release an album exclusively to one retailer and go platinum within a month if not a couple of weeks.

Sure... more popular, more promoted acts. Prince is neither a popular seller nor, typically, as well promoted as those acts...and when he is, often not as commercial.

If you want to compare Prince's sales to those artists then he's been putting forth generally dismal numbers since the album. However, compared to his own sales of late it could be a lot worse.

Lotus's gold status is a bogus number really because it is selling for like 1/30th the cost of most 3 cd sets.

It's only bogus if the Gold status was obtained by selling 167k and multiplying by 3 (in the way Emancipation's certification was artificially inflated for being a triple CD set). However, it's my understanding this was not the case due to pricing and, possibly, length.

No, Lotus is retailing for as little as a $1. It's sales numbers are inflated by the fact that Target finally gave up on it and just want the shelf space back. Again not a positive development. I'm saying it would have sold far less than 500,000 copies, if the price point was not gutted.

funksterr said:

He has appeared to have under-promoted several albums over the last couple of decades.

Thats true... who knows why he's been doing that... I dont know if he really just doesnt care or if he just doesnt want to put a lot of effort behind something and then it still not perform well...

funksterr said:

No, Lotus is retailing for as little as a $1. It's sales numbers are inflated by the fact that Target finally gave up on it and just want the shelf space back. Again not a positive development. I'm saying it would have sold far less than 500,000 copies, if the price point was not gutted.

Sorry but the stats don't really bear that out. It sold around 170k in its first week and had gone on to sell nearly 400k in the first 3 months. Even if we stopped there, it would still have been one of his more successful albums in the last 15 years. I don't recall how quickly it tallied most of the remaining sales but it bounced around the Billboard top 100 for quite a while, LONG after what little promotion it got had ceased.

Target likely *IS* wanting to get rid of old stock at this point. Prince has long since abandoned promotion of this set and it won't sell itself just sitting there with no radio play, no supporting tour, no promotional appearances, etc...

As a side note, heavily discounted sales of one-off exclusives are not a surprise. Olivia Newton-John has been making deals like Prince did with Target for several of her albums (releasing each one exclusively through a different retailer as she pleases - Hallmark, Wallgreens, Target...) since around 2000. Once the promotional period ends, these have also often been randomly discounted by the retailer (or they get bonus tracks added and are "re-released" a year or two later with new marketing.

The difference there is that Olivia actually pushed the albums with appearances and tours and promoted them in conjunction with health and wellness efforts (breast cancer awareness, etc...). She didn't just collect her advance and disappear.

jtfolden said:

funksterr said:

No, Lotus is retailing for as little as a $1. It's sales numbers are inflated by the fact that Target finally gave up on it and just want the shelf space back. Again not a positive development. I'm saying it would have sold far less than 500,000 copies, if the price point was not gutted.

Sorry but the stats don't really bear that out. It sold around 170k in its first week and had gone on to sell nearly 400k in the first 3 months. Even if we stopped there, it would still have been one of his more successful albums in the last 15 years. I don't recall how quickly it tallied most of the remaining sales but it bounced around the Billboard top 100 for quite a while, LONG after what little promotion it got had ceased.

Target likely *IS* wanting to get rid of old stock at this point. Prince has long since abandoned promotion of this set and it won't sell itself just sitting there with no radio play, no supporting tour, no promotional appearances, etc...

As a side note, heavily discounted sales of one-off exclusives are not a surprise. Olivia Newton-John has been making deals like Prince did with Target for several of her albums (releasing each one exclusively through a different retailer as she pleases - Hallmark, Wallgreens, Target...) since around 2000. Once the promotional period ends, these have also often been randomly discounted by the retailer (or they get bonus tracks added and are "re-released" a year or two later with new marketing.

The difference there is that Olivia actually pushed the albums with appearances and tours and promoted them in conjunction with health and wellness efforts (breast cancer awareness, etc...). She didn't just collect her advance and disappear.

Prince's sales number over the last 15 years are low no matter how you slice it. You are essentially arguing that Lotus is the best of a a bad bunch, but to me bad is just bad. His albums are coming and going and mostly not having an impact on music lover's like one would expect them to. I doubt Prince or Target are looking at Lotus's numbers with any sense of pride or accomplishment.

funksterr said:

jtfolden said:

Sorry but the stats don't really bear that out. It sold around 170k in its first week and had gone on to sell nearly 400k in the first 3 months. Even if we stopped there, it would still have been one of his more successful albums in the last 15 years. I don't recall how quickly it tallied most of the remaining sales but it bounced around the Billboard top 100 for quite a while, LONG after what little promotion it got had ceased.

Target likely *IS* wanting to get rid of old stock at this point. Prince has long since abandoned promotion of this set and it won't sell itself just sitting there with no radio play, no supporting tour, no promotional appearances, etc...

As a side note, heavily discounted sales of one-off exclusives are not a surprise. Olivia Newton-John has been making deals like Prince did with Target for several of her albums (releasing each one exclusively through a different retailer as she pleases - Hallmark, Wallgreens, Target...) since around 2000. Once the promotional period ends, these have also often been randomly discounted by the retailer (or they get bonus tracks added and are "re-released" a year or two later with new marketing.

The difference there is that Olivia actually pushed the albums with appearances and tours and promoted them in conjunction with health and wellness efforts (breast cancer awareness, etc...). She didn't just collect her advance and disappear.

Prince's sales number over the last 15 years are low no matter how you slice it. You are essentially arguing that Lotus is the best of a a bad bunch, but to me bad is just bad. His albums are coming and going and mostly not having an impact on music lover's like one would expect them to. I doubt Prince or Target are looking at Lotus's numbers with any sense of pride or accomplishment.

so? its not like he promoted it as well as he could have, nor is he signed to a major label. Besides i think you are forgetting about internet piracy as well

funksterr said:

Prince's sales number over the last 15 years are low no matter how you slice it. You are essentially arguing that Lotus is the best of a a bad bunch, but to me bad is just bad. His albums are coming and going and mostly not having an impact on music lover's like one would expect them to.

Why would you expect them to??? Prince's popularity with the mainstream has always been more miss than hit. His popular albums are exceptions rather than the rule. We could go back another 5 years and he'd still have 4 out of 6 albums selling below 1M copies:

1990 Graffiti Bridge 980,000
1991 Diamonds & Pearls 2,780,000
1992 Symbol 1,100,000
1994 Come 500,000
1994 The Black Album 275,000
1995 The Gold Experience 550,000

I don't have any inflated expectations when it comes to sales of Prince albums. It's *possible* that he might toss out the occasional semi-decent seller but I compare his sales to his previous performance. If he makes it to Gold status he's doing well for himself.

You are perfectly free to compare his sales to other artists but that seems pointless. Prince isn't commercial enough to be competitive generally and not motivated enough to do the promotion to make up the difference.

Even if you look back to the 1980's, he was a very inconsistent seller and if not for the "glow" of Purple Rain most of those albums wouldn't have made it to 1M either.

I doubt Prince or Target are looking at Lotus's numbers with any sense of pride or accomplishment.

They have access to the same figures that we do. Do you think Target really expected a multi-million seller? If they did, Prince must have been promising them the moon.

Prince got his advance payment and probably doesn't care.

jtfolden said:

funksterr said:

Prince's sales number over the last 15 years are low no matter how you slice it. You are essentially arguing that Lotus is the best of a a bad bunch, but to me bad is just bad. His albums are coming and going and mostly not having an impact on music lover's like one would expect them to.

Why would you expect them to??? Prince's popularity with the mainstream has always been more miss than hit. His popular albums are exceptions rather than the rule. We could go back another 5 years and he'd still have 4 out of 6 albums selling below 1M copies:

1990 Graffiti Bridge 980,000
1991 Diamonds & Pearls 2,780,000
1992 Symbol 1,100,000
1994 Come 500,000
1994 The Black Album 275,000
1995 The Gold Experience 550,000

I don't have any inflated expectations when it comes to sales of Prince albums. It's *possible* that he might toss out the occasional semi-decent seller but I compare his sales to his previous performance. If he makes it to Gold status he's doing well for himself.

You are perfectly free to compare his sales to other artists but that seems pointless. Prince isn't commercial enough to be competitive generally and not motivated enough to do the promotion to make up the difference.

Even if you look back to the 1980's, he was a very inconsistent seller and if not for the "glow" of Purple Rain most of those albums wouldn't have made it to 1M either.

And why is it that he's not commercial enough, or motivated enough? And is that ok with you as the listener? Prince sells records basically to his core group of die-hard fans, who are so ga-ga for him that they overlook the lazy self indulgent songwriting. Everyone else is turned off by it. The more casual group of Prince fans, the people who can push his sales into the millions, are waiting for him to step it up. When he doesn't step up the quality level, we shouldn't look the other way. We shouldn't make excuses for him or congratulate him for limping to Gold status on the strength of in-store retailer housekeeping. Call it for what it is: another sloppy album, another quick payday at the expense of long term profits, another embarrassment.

Prince got his advance payment and probably doesn't care.

Now that's a point, we CAN agree on.

funksterr said:

And why is it that he's not commercial enough, or motivated enough? And is that ok with you as the listener?

I don't particularly care if he strives to be commercial nor if he has a popular album. I stopped following him in the charts around 1988.

Prince sells records basically to his core group of die-hard fans, who are so ga-ga for him that they overlook the lazy self indulgent songwriting. Everyone else is turned off by it.

The so-called "quality" of an album is entirely subjective. However, it's unlikely everyone else is turned off by it because it's even more unlikely they even get a chance to hear it. You can't make the claim that people didn't buy LF because it turned them off - they had no chance to sample anything on it to begin with - no singles on radio, no videos on tv, no tour to promote, etc...

I like something from every era, and probably dislike a good portion, too.

The more casual group of Prince fans, the people who can push his sales into the millions, are waiting for him to step it up.

If a non-promoted Prince album sells 125k and a promoted one averages 500k then Prince has very few casual fans left.

Like EW said back when Graffiti Bridge was released, Prince is singing to an audience that has already left him behind. The "millions" of fans you reference must be the ones he lost with ATWIAD 25 years ago because they've haven't been seen since.

When he doesn't step up the quality level, we shouldn't look the other way. We shouldn't make excuses for him or congratulate him for limping to Gold status on the strength of in-store retailer housekeeping. Call it for what it is: another sloppy album, another quick payday at the expense of long term profits, another embarrassment.

Who's it embarrassing? Not Prince... or he wouldn't operate in this manner (as he has continued to do since leaving WB (and no doubt well before but at least WB was doing some promotion)).

I don't ever expect Prince to be a commercial artist again. As I've shown, Prince has spent his life making, mostly, Gold records. It's unreasonable to expect anything different on a regular basis.

Prince got his advance payment and probably doesn't care.

Now that's a point, we CAN agree on.

Well, it's one thing at least.

fact is he sold more than 500 000 copies...it is a gold album

Target and Prince surely wanted to sell more, but whats wrong with that?

I like his current music a lot....3121, planet earth, musicology, Lotusflow3r....

he is still selling records, makin great music in my opinion....

saleswise he is not a superstar anymore, he probably never really was....( batman, purple rain, D&P, maybe musicology the exception)...

He gets a lot of press coverage, performing in big arenas around the world etc...

i just wonder why some of you can`t be satified

I don't particularly care if he strives to be commercial nor if he has a popular album. I stopped following him in the charts around 1988.

Prince is a commercial artist. He's not some underground cat giving discs to family and friends. So you can't just say sales don't really matter.

The so-called "quality" of an album is entirely subjective. However, it's unlikely everyone else is turned off by it because it's even more unlikely they even get a chance to hear it. You can't make the claim that people didn't buy LF because it turned them off - they had no chance to sample anything on it to begin with - no singles on radio, no videos on tv, no tour to promote, etc...

I like something from every era, and probably dislike a good portion, too.

Quality is not subjective. Prince fans, so beat down and conditioned in their thinking by years of lackluster albums, missteps and weak buzz around new Prince music that it's become the thing to say: "I like the new Prince album so it has artistic value". In music, there are rules, there are standards, there are best practices, there are ways to evaluate quality. An album that's got 2 good songs on it? Fail.

If a non-promoted Prince album sells 125k and a promoted one averages 500k then Prince has very few casual fans left.

Like EW said back when Graffiti Bridge was released, Prince is singing to an audience that has already left him behind. The "millions" of fans you reference must be the ones he lost with ATWIAD 25 years ago because they've haven't been seen since.

I'm willing to say that 90% of Prince albums post Purple Rain, has very little to offer the average listener. Some have had hot singles, but the albums themselves are confusing and bogged down in self-indulgence. Prince's name, is still valuable in today's marketplace, thanks to his legendary 80's greatness. If he puts together a solid album, he won't have to run and hide after it comes out. It will go platinum over and over and aover again.

Who's it embarrassing? Not Prince... or he wouldn't operate in this manner (as he has continued to do since leaving WB (and no doubt well before but at least WB was doing some promotion)).

I don't ever expect Prince to be a commercial artist again. As I've shown, Prince has spent his life making, mostly, Gold records. It's unreasonable to expect anything different on a regular basis.

I think Prince is embarrassed. Think about Prince's ego, and the way he likes to spend money, and then picture that 3cd box set retailing for a $1. I believe that was his motivation in releasing the more focused 20TEN, which suffers some from self-indulgent lyrics, but a notable return to form musically.

I think Prince is embarrassed. Think about Prince's ego, and the way he likes to spend money, and then picture that 3cd box set retailing for a $1. I believe that was his motivation in releasing the more focused 20TEN, which suffers some from self-indulgent lyrics, but a notable return to form musically.

Why is he embarrassed? Why should he? He is selling records to his fans...you call them hardcore fans...well...1 or 2 million hardcore fans are not bad...and 20 TEN was just included in millions of papers in europe...for free...yes..but in germany or england the papers sold up to 50 % more the day the CD came out....

funksterr said:

Prince is a commercial artist. He's not some underground cat giving discs to family and friends. So you can't just say sales don't really matter.

It's hilarious you think those are the extremes.

Prince is not a commercial artist. Most of his music is not tailored for popular radio. According to the logic you have on display, Joni Mitchell is a failure because she's only had one hit single in 42 years.

The reality is that some artist's music simply does not fall in line with popular taste. Prince lucked out in that he had an extremely tiny window in 1984 when it did - for one album.

Quality is not subjective. Prince fans, so beat down and conditioned in their thinking by years of lackluster albums, missteps and weak buzz around new Prince music that it's become the thing to say: "I like the new Prince album so it has artistic value". In music, there are rules, there are standards, there are best practices, there are ways to evaluate quality. An album that's got 2 good songs on it? Fail.

I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense. You can rate musicianship but little else in popular music. Every single critique of an album is no more important than personal opinion and usually has a lot more to do with what's popular at the moment rather than anything intrinsic in the album being reviewed. It's, also, entirely laughable to suggest that quality music and big sales go hand in hand. Some of Prince's best music, imo, have been rather poor sellers.

It is ALL about personal likes and dislikes. I'm beginning to think that if LF had sold 4M copies you'd think it was a better album. Talk about being swayed by public opinion...

Oh and trying to box dissenting opinion under a blanket of "beaten down Prince fans" isn't doing you any favors.

I'm willing to say that 90% of Prince albums post Purple Rain, has very little to offer the average listener. Some have had hot singles, but the albums themselves are confusing and bogged down in self-indulgence.

Why are you confining it to post-PR albums? Those that came before, aren't any better. 4 out of 6 sold less than 1M copies prior to the hype of PR artificially inflating sales figures. For You and Dirty Mind were abject failures in the area of sales. Controversy did no better than LF. ...and these "abysmal" sales figures actually came when the industry wasn't in the toilet. Prince albums have ALWAYS been "bogged down in self-indulgence." Some of Controversy is down-right embarrassing.

Prince's name, is still valuable in today's marketplace, thanks to his legendary 80's greatness. If he puts together a solid album, he won't have to run and hide after it comes out. It will go platinum over and over and aover again.

It's likely you and I would never agree on what would be a "solid" album. I don't recall SOTT or TGE going platinum over and over and over again. I do recall D&P did that, though, and I think it's a mess!

However, I wouldn't hold my breath and see that dream album of yours.

The reality is that Prince isn't running and hiding anywhere - he just gets bored. WB has had the same problem with him since the 80's...

I think Prince is embarrassed. Think about Prince's ego, and the way he likes to spend money, and then picture that 3cd box set retailing for a $1. I believe that was his motivation in releasing the more focused 20TEN, which suffers some from self-indulgent lyrics, but a notable return to form musically.

Return to form? See, this is a perfect example of how music opinion is subjective. 20Ten is, perhaps, the most derivative album Prince has ever created. I think it's becoming more and more obvious that you are simply a fan of "'80's Prince" and that's cool...

However, to use your logic, Prince must REALLY be embarrassed by 20Ten. He couldn't even bear to have it sold in stores, he had to give it away - overseas! - too ashamed to make it available in the US.

The reality is, of course, Prince got his advance payment for 20Ten (just as he did for LF and PE before that) and has moved on to something else. It's doubtful Prince is even aware what Target has priced LF at... he got paid upfront, remember?

jtfolden said:

funksterr said:

Target is no hard to find mom and pop chain. They are as bigtime as it gets (except for Wal-Mart) literally millions of people shop in Target stores everyday. And they promoted the hell out of LotusFlower from what I saw. The record was definitely easy to find. Promotion and availability are not the issues. Literally millions of people saw the record and decided NOT to buy it. Even at super-low discount prices. I wonder why that is.

Big time or not, being available in one location is still only one location. You mention the millions that theoretically saw the record (and WHO buys a record, not knowing even a single track on it, JUST because it's sitting in front of them? ) but completely ignore the multiple millions that DID not see the record by the very fact it wasn't available elsewhere. I have a Target less than 5 miles from me and I barely go in there once a year, if that. If I wasn't a reasonably active Prince fan, I'd likely never know about the album.

There was no longterm, major promotion outside of the store. There was a commercial that aired selectively for a couple of weeks, and a couple of talk show appearances in the same time frame.

For every one else, the promotion was non-existant.

...but beyond that, what, to you, is a good selling Prince record in the last 10-15 years?

1996 Chaos & Disorder 150,000
1996 Emancipation 700,000
1998 Crystal Ball 125,000
1998 Newpower Soul 225,000
1999 The Vault 125,000
1999 Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 500,000
2001 The Rainbow Children 175,000
2004 Musicology 1,000,000
2006 3121 550,000

2007 Planet Earth 300,000

2009 LotusFlow3r 500,000

LF was sold in a single chain, not even regularly on Amazon, and sold comparatively to 3121 (168k vs 183k first week, both eventually going GOLD). Given the track record for a Prince release in the last decade, it was done well - better than most. If it had regular availability it would like have sold much better.

those figures are only american sales....you can double most of those figures for approx..worldwide sales....

Just wonder what he could do if he had some half decent promotion for a well thought out album. I am happy for him, and I this is a great achievement, but I still think he can do better.

hollywooddove said:

Just wonder what he could do if he had some half decent promotion for a well thought out album. I am happy for him, and I this is a great achievement, but I still think he can do better.

I agree that he needs to promote his work more. Still Lotus isnt the type of album that would appeal to casual fans

3121 should have been bigger then it was. Its perhaps the most "modern sounding" album Prince has put out. And songs like Black Sweat appeal to the younger generation and casual fans as well. I believe had Prince promoted this more, it would have been bigger.

hhhhdmt said:

hollywooddove said:

Just wonder what he could do if he had some half decent promotion for a well thought out album. I am happy for him, and I this is a great achievement, but I still think he can do better.

I agree that he needs to promote his work more. Still Lotus isnt the type of album that would appeal to casual fans

3121 should have been bigger then it was. Its perhaps the most "modern sounding" album Prince has put out. And songs like Black Sweat appeal to the younger generation and casual fans as well. I believe had Prince promoted this more, it would have been bigger.

I have to agree, Prince sort of shot himself in the foot with that one. I think he could re-release 3121 and compile more songs of that quality, re-promote it, and it would still go over fantastic. Sometimes, I think he doesn't know what he has when he releases something good, but this is the way of the artist, rarely do they feel poorly over any creation they put out.

Using the word "fail" as a sentence makes the user seem like an uneducated moron. All of you people talking shit on this album going "Gold", what have YOU done? How many copies of YOUR album did you sell?

(Edited for misspelling of the word "sentence" as "sentance".)

I admit my mistake, but stand by my conviction.

[Edited 2/1/11 8:42am]

Dogsinthetrees said:

Using the word "fail" as a sentance makes the user seem like an uneducated moron. All of you people talking shit on this album going "Gold", what have YOU done? How many copies of YOUR album did you sell?

Well, I don't have to sell a single album to know whether or not something fails. Appollo 13 failed to complete it's mission to the moon; I do not have to be an astronaut to realize that.

(And I am not trying to be a judge on you, anyone can make a typo, but when you insult anyone by calling them a moron, you need to make sure you spell sentence correctly.)

[Edited 1/31/11 14:09pm]

Dogsinthetrees said:

Using the word "fail" as a sentance makes the user seem like an uneducated moron. All of you people talking shit on this album going "Gold", what have YOU done? How many copies of YOUR album did you sell?

Exactly!

Dogsinthetrees said:

Using the word "fail" as a sentance makes the user seem like an uneducated moron. All of you people talking shit on this album going "Gold", what have YOU done? How many copies of YOUR album did you sell?

LOL. I don't have to release an album to know that the sales suck. I don't have to write a song to know whether or not a song is bad. I don't have to write a script to know whether or not a movie was good. I don't have to write a book to judge whether or not the book was good. I don't have to make food in order to judge whether or not the cooking was terrible. I don't have to write poetry in order to judge whethetr or not the poem was good. Catch my drift?

Congrats Prince!