Does anyone have any information on Prince's approach to work. It obvious that he works hard and does not get much sleep. But I would like to know how he approaches his work. What is his attitude like. I've read some where that he is extremely professional and others have said that working with him is like being in the army/marines. Can anyone point out any specific quotes, stories or references to other info?

Buy this, it is the most informative and insightful look at Prince and his music i have ever read.

The first part of the book reads like a diary, day to day, from his birth, to 2004. It is in this that you truly understand the scope of his workaholic work ethic and methods.

[img:$uid]http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx218/MMikeyBee/Prince%20and%20related/Prince%20record%20and%20mag%20covers/The-Vault.jpg[/img:$uid]

Cannot be purchased anymore (apparently).

rap said:

Cannot be purchased anymore (apparently).

Try ebay. There are often copies on there, and copies often get advertised here on the org too.

Ok Thanks. Can't see anything on Ebay. Anyone got a copy?

What does it say? Anyone read bits, or got any info or insights to share? Didn't Jam & Lewis have a story about him making him do additional keyboard parts aswell as sing, dance. Didn't Wendy and Lisa say he is religiously professional. Is this the source of his excellence/brilliance (apart from his obvious talent)

as for attitude (s) we all have dem...as for work,

this brother should have been crowned the new,

and hardest working soul in show bidniz.

JamieStarr1958 said:

Ok Thanks. Can't see anything on Ebay. Anyone got a copy?

What does it say? Anyone read bits, or got any info or insights to share? Didn't Jam & Lewis have a story about him making him do additional keyboard parts aswell as sing, dance. Didn't Wendy and Lisa say he is religiously professional. Is this the source of his excellence/brilliance (apart from his obvious talent)

I'm guessing that The Vault may not be the book for you after all. It sounds like the kind of info you want may be obtained in a biography of some kind, of which there are plenty.

Thanks MikeyB71. Maybe your right. I don't need a list of his day to day activities (if this is what is in The Vault book). More his approach to creating music, practicing and his creative projects.

Got a few of his bios in one it said something like "Lonely insecure boy, creates his own world and recreate his identity". Somewhere else it said, he views negative thoughts or talk like a sin.

[Edited 8/19/10 8:21am]

I don't have any inside knowledge of how Prince works. But I think it's safe to say that people do not make it to the level he has without being single-minded and extremely driven.

Do you think being single minded and driven. Was natural or something he developed because of his childhood. I mean which young teen gets by on 3-4 hours sleep to practice music.

JamieStarr1958 said:

Do you think being single minded and driven. Was natural or something he developed because of his childhood. I mean which young teen gets by on 3-4 hours sleep to practice music.

Probably a combination. I mean...I think you have to be born with that temperament, to a certain degree. But in Prince's case, I think he was also driven by things that developed later - competition with and a desire to win the approval of his father, bullying by his peers, and such.

Ok got ya. Did he ever get his father approval as he still seems quite driven. To be a successful as Prince does one need to be bullied and desparate for the thumbs up from daddy.

I think his level of talent directly impacted his willingness to work...

If someone works at something 20 hrs a day... but very little gets accomplished, they'll get worn out and give up...

JamieStarr1958 said:

Got a few of his bios in one it said something like "Lonely insecure boy, creates his own world and recreate his identity". Somewhere else it said, he views negative thoughts or talk like a sin.

cept when he's doing it

Did he know he was talented or just deperate to find his way out of his situation?

Wouldn't most people be quite accomplished if they spent 20 hours a day at something. Nowadays the theory is that all you need is 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to be world class...

JamieStarr1958 said:

Did he know he was talented or just deperate to find his way out of his situation?

Wouldn't most people be quite accomplished if they spent 20 hours a day at something. Nowadays the theory is that all you need is 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to be world class...

Ah, you've been reading that book by Geoff Colvin too ("Talent is Overrated")? There have been a whole series of new, research based, books about this same idea: talent is not innate, but the result of unrelenting and focused practice based on constantly targeting the areas at which you want to improve. I was reading this book and constantly had to think about Prince, when the author was enumerating the typical characterics of "great (and innovative) performers":

- starting of at an early age (receiving piano from his father; looking up to him as a performer; intensive, almost obsessive basement practice during adolescence)

- having good, knowledgeable teachers (I think his father being a jazz pianist played a role; see also his latest interviews in which he said his father "introduced him to music", or something to that extent; Prince even wanted to know about the business side of music at an early age, he was constantly practising during spare moments at school, and his music teacher - recognizing budding talent - let him be; listening to and copying/imitating from records, I believe, was one of his mayor practising tools; records were important teachers - see the Musicology video)

- the innovator to be exhausts the possibilities for development in his hometown, and goes to a big city where he has to compete with the best in his field (Prince goes to New York, I believe it was, to present himself and discuss a contract with WB)

At this stage I don't believe the people he met already called him "a genius". The 94 East recordings might have been called "Minneapolis Genius" (afterwards?) but I don't think it was already "genius" stuff: extremely, extremely gifted, yes, but Prince was still mastering the existing styles, and hadn't found his own unique voice yet.

I think it was only at the beginning of his professional career, now having the opportunity to fully engage in music/practice without any limitations, that his band members - Bobby Z for example - started to be blown away by his development (I should look this up in "Possessed", where that occasion is referred to).

- most really great innovators need to practice at least 10 years (or the "10.000 hours" referred to above) in a consistent, focused way, mastering their field and honing their skills, before the creative breakthrough can take place (Prince really started to reach creative breakthroughs, the exact starting point is debatable of course, with his "Purple Rain-ATWIAD-Parade-Sign of the Times" run, which was imo his most innovative period; this came after, if you consider the Andre Cymone "basement period" as the "focused beginning", 12 to 13 years of consistent and intense practise)

About this moment of creative breakthrough Colvin remarks: the innovator/great performer is now fully absorbed by his field, and starts to go beyond the limits of it. He believes he's grappling with problems, the solution of which will take his field in a new direction. He/she now works almost all the time, is very demanding towards him or herself, and very demanding of other people (recognize this?). Other relationships are often sacrificed in order for the creative innovator to reach his or her goal. The great performer let's the perfection of his work take precedence over the "perfection of life", and other types of relationship (non-professional,...) tend to suffer from this. The egocentrism, narcissism and often excessive self confidence which comes with the growing mastery of the field (a "can do" spirit based on intense, focused practice and the continuous stretching of one's capabilities) is not always undivided "fun" for the environment of these great innovators to be around. They want to be the best in their field (Prince: "trying to be the best is important", in personal conversations with Ingrid Chavez I believe, o my memory ).

So yeah, I don't think it's really innate, his talent is mostly due to his enormous work ethic imo. And that's not just dull practice, but continuously trying to master new stuff and improving oneself (he was also a master in "stealing" certain musical tricks from co-musicians and perfecting their "trick" in his own way, so that it became better than the original).

Great post..couldn't agree more. You're right I have read "Talent is overrated" and "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. Also, see the latest article in this months Wired. In which the 10,000 hours is mentioned. Also, thought of Prince and other great performers (not all in music), that seem to fit the profile.

However, there are some documentaries on youtube with Pepe, Owen Husney etc that mention that he was unbelievable when they met him as a teen. Pepe mentions that others were in awe of him...saying things like "Oh so your Prince huh, wow, wow" (or words to that affect). So he may have reached his 10,000 hours by then. Artistically, I think it was the "Purple Rain-ATWIAD-Parade-Sign of the Times" period mentioned. I know a quote regarding Prince wanting to be "the best" was from a girl he was seeing in the UK (may have also been Ingrid Chavez). She also said that he was obsessed with not only being the best in terms of musicianship, he also wanted to be seen as a leader of the industry.

Didn't know about the "stealing". I knew he claimed song and absorbed song ideas but did not know this extended to licks...
I gonna dig out the quote from Bobby Z, in Possessed. It looks like he will do anything to be considered the best musician/artist. I wonder if he meditates, has affirmations and visualises, like Olympic athletes?
"I will play all my scales flawlessly",

"I am the best musician in my house, the basement, Chris Moon's studio, Minneapolis, the world"

[Edited 8/21/10 3:07am]

why dont they at least offer digital copies to buy on Lulu.com or something?

I mean geesh, whats the use of all that research if it cant be aroudn for a generation or two?

I think his parents were musicians and he was born into a musical family and community (Black Minnesota). His father wasnt Joe Jackson but he was definately his primary influence and cheerleader. He had an intense and focused work ethic primarily cuz he and his peers loved doing it. I think the more telling thing he did was ran away from an apparently stable home, and didnt go back. That takes balls.

JonnyApplesauce said:

I think his parents were musicians and he was born into a musical family and community (Black Minnesota). His father wasnt Joe Jackson but he was definately his primary influence and cheerleader. He had an intense and focused work ethic primarily cuz he and his peers loved doing it. I think the more telling thing he did was ran away from an apparently stable home, and didnt go back. That takes balls.

His account of that time isn't that it was a stable home. He and his stepfather constantly came to disagreements.

Really? ok. Step parent beef can be a deal breaker. Thats chest pains in High School stress. Leaving no doubt shored up his determination to make it in spite of that stuff. I just thought it was hard of him to run away but fighting w/ a step father has you considering violence. Thx for the insight

JonnyApplesauce said:

Really? ok. Step parent beef can be a deal breaker. Thats chest pains in High School stress. Leaving no doubt shored up his determination to make it in spite of that stuff. I just thought it was hard of him to run away but fighting w/ a step father has you considering violence. Thx for the insight

He also had serious disagreements with his father. With his father I think it was more of a case of them both being stubborn and headstrong. With his step father he would have preferred more of an emotional rather than material connection.

JamieStarr1958 said:

Great post..couldn't agree more. You're right I have read "Talent is overrated" and "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. Also, see the latest article in this months Wired. In which the 10,000 hours is mentioned. Also, thought of Prince and other great performers (not all in music), that seem to fit the profile.

However, there are some documentaries on youtube with Pepe, Owen Husney etc that mention that he was unbelievable when they met him as a teen. Pepe mentions that others were in awe of him...saying things like "Oh so your Prince huh, wow, wow" (or words to that affect). So he may have reached his 10,000 hours by then. Artistically, I think it was the "Purple Rain-ATWIAD-Parade-Sign of the Times" period mentioned. I know a quote regarding Prince wanting to be "the best" was from a girl he was seeing in the UK (may have also been Ingrid Chavez). She also said that he was obsessed with not only being the best in terms of musicianship, he also wanted to be seen as a leader of the industry.

Didn't know about the "stealing". I knew he claimed song and absorbed song ideas but did not know this extended to licks...
I gonna dig out the quote from Bobby Z, in Possessed. It looks like he will do anything to be considered the best musician/artist. I wonder if he meditates, has affirmations and visualises, like Olympic athletes?
"I will play all my scales flawlessly",

"I am the best musician in my house, the basement, Chris Moon's studio, Minneapolis, the world"

[Edited 8/21/10 3:07am]

I meant a specific approach to an instrument. Not necessarily licks.

Here's some quotes from Jimmy Jam from 1988, which give some insight to the purple yoda's approach.

"Prince's thinking is just on a different level than most people's," "And people who expect a lot of themselves expect a lot of others. When you think a lot of yourself, you start to believe other people should be thinking of themselves along the same lines. And when they're not, you might say, hey stupid, why aren't you doing anything? You end up alienating them"

I remember when we were rehearsing for the second Time tour", says Jam. "We are having trouble with this song, '777 9311,' and we finally go it down to where we could play it good live. Then Prince came in one rehearsal, looked at me playing keyboards, and said, 'Jimmy, you're doing the bass with your left hand. You're not using your right hand.' And I said, there's not a part there. And he said, 'Well, you make a part there! You add something. You got to make it better than the record. No hands can be lazy. You got to play!'

"So I started using my right hand. Then a couple of rehearsals later he came in and we said, 'Yeah, Prince, check this out! We're jammin'!' And Prince said, 'Okay, who's not singing? Everybody's gotta sing a harmony part.' Somebody said, but there's not that many harmony parts in the song, Prince. 'Doesn't matter. Gonna be better now than it is on the record.'

"Okay, so we now we're singing. We got our parts down. He came back there rehearsals later and said, 'Okay, where's the cheorgraphy? You guys got to be steppin'!' Terry and Morris and Jesse are out there stepping', having a great time. Prince says, 'Jimmy Jam -what about you?' I said, 'What about me? I'm the keyboard player.' 'No, you got to step with them, too.'

"I said, 'What?! I gotta play with both hands, sing a note, and be stepping' at the same time? Forget it. I can't do that shit.'

"Couple of hard rehearsals later -I'm talking about four solid hours of playing at each one -I could do the shit in my sleep. I could play my keyboard part, take out a handkerchief and wipe my face and put it back, play the part, and do the step."...Jam took the lesson to heart and also said "That's what Prince did, time and again. He taught us we could do things we'd never believed we could." Wow!