I'm sure he'd like to think so. But hell to tha naw. He used to bring up some reasonably interesting points and throw a few things out there that would get me thinking, or looking at something from a different perspective. But now he's just a soundbites man, I could read 10 different magazines with 'Exclusive interviews' in - and they'll all pretty much sing the same song from their pages.

So...no. In a nutshell.

be intersting to see if the JW thing is the end of his journey or just a long stop!. Seems to have stopped at the station for a long while though!.

funkyhead said:

be intersting to see if the JW thing is the end of his journey or just a long stop!. Seems to have stopped at the station for a long while though!.

He's gettin' that big 24-piece bucket of deep fried JW.

Are you kidding? I'm a philosophy student, and Prince is easily the most laughably stupid famous person I've ever heard when it concerns views on metaphysics and God.

Has Prince directly affected my views on God & religion?

Of course not. He's a musician and I'm not delusional.

no , not at all...i am an atheist because i dont believe in fairy stories.....i understand WHY prince is searching for some higher meaning to life but his music is what its all about to me.....music is my religion...

PurpleKnight said:

Are you kidding? I'm a philosophy student, and Prince is easily the most laughably stupid famous person I've ever heard when it concerns views on metaphysics and God.

Really? How many people has Prince killed in the name of his religion?

yes and no

smoothcriminal12 said:

ernestsewell said:

It's weird.

I was firm in my faith and wasn't wavering from it when I was listening to Prince. He started to mention God more probably around 1981 and forward. I was probably more dogmatic in my belief as a teenager and into my 20's than Prince was in his 20's and 30's.

However, it seems that when he started to hone in on the JW cult faith, I started to loosen up on mine. The basics of what I believe are there, but over time I have dropped the man-made traditions and pretentiousness of Christianity. I've reexamined a lot of things I thought I believed, and realized - some church or group made "that part" or "this part" up to try and compliment what was already there, and what was already perfect.

I found myself in conversations w/ folks constantly saying, "but that's not what God said in the Bible". I realized thing were changing for me. I realized that "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there [at that place] is liberty". I'd never felt liberty like I feel now in following God. I feel like Prince is the opposite of that now. He comes across very hindered, shackled and in submission to religion, not God. Of course you can't be in bondage to something you didn't submit to.

So did P effect my view of God? No! It's just an interesting view when I look at it with 20/20 hindsight, and see that we switched sides of the extreme.

Did both of you fail to realise that "some group" made it all up in the first place? Nobody had a "bible" when Christ supposedly existed - that came a few hundred years later! Yet you speak as though God himself wrote the bible and delievered it to the planet some 100,000 years after mankind first appeared here! Christianity IS a man-made tradition, as is the entire concept of a God. Those who invented Christianity simply built upon the many ancient religions that existed before it and used it as a form of taking control of the masses. Its that simple.

I have nothing against either of you having a belief, but suggesting you've thought about it to the extent that you've realised people have tinkered with "what was already there" is laughable. And, as for being "perfect"?! Have you read the Old Testament?! You think God is a nice, "perfect" being there? Hmm?

[Edited 8/20/10 4:51am]

In answer to the original question posed be the thread - NO....not in the slightest. I have no problem with his, or anyone's beliefs, they can believe what they want, no matter how ludicrous it is to me. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of his music, nor does it affect my views on religion.

PurpleKnight said:

Are you kidding? I'm a philosophy student, and Prince is easily the most laughably stupid famous person I've ever heard when it concerns views on metaphysics and God.

Heh - you say "I'm a philsophy student" as though that gives you some sort of extra credence! Some philosophy students are some of the most laughably stupid people I've met. Oh, and good luck getting a job with THAT degree! lol

JonnyApplesauce said:

ludwig said:

How can you believe in something that no one can comprehend? Im sorry, but you religious folks don't make sense. Why can't you just accept that no one has an explanation what this life is all about?

I'm tired of the back and forth but who deluded you into believing only things you can grasp exist? Thats the height of arrogance. You think understanding begins and ends w/ ignant ass human beings and their 5 senses? How you sound?

Okay, but until we have proof to the contrary, it's pretty much what we have to cling to, isn't it? "God" as an all round excuse for everything we can't understand is a problematic idea. Humans knew very, very little 10.000 years ago. Nowadays - through the development of science, technique, critical thinking,... - we know much, much more about the nature of the universe, the development of our species, life on our planet,... Does this mean that God as a handy, if inconclusive, explanation for what we can't understand has been pushed back? That seems to be a rather subjective approach to what's supposed to be an all powerful organizer of the universe as we know it.

Religious speculation has been replaced by scientific reasoning based on material facts, observation and historic research. There is no material proof at all for a self conscious Creator, even less for the idea that the human species was put on this earth by an act of such an almighty Thing.

So let's keep religious belief in it's rightful place, as a philosophical hypothesis for which there is no real proof, based on facts and critical observation. Of course there are unresolved scientific problems (and I wouldn't call myself an authority at all, just a casual and interested observer) but when we don't know, it really only means we don't know (yet).

blackbob said:

no , not at all...i am an atheist because i dont believe in fairy stories.

There it is.

Since I'm moving to the US next year, it's dawned on me that there aren't very many things I like about the UK. But one of the things I love? Is that we have buses like this one:

I would make it better by changing "probably" to "definitely", and changing "worrying" to "being delusional".

Militant said:

I would make it better by changing "probably" to "definitely", and changing "worrying" to "being delusional".

I'm not religious at all, but the whole thing of trying to portray those who have a religion with any sort of god as "delusional" is just stupid..I say let people believe in what they want to, including Prince. If people are happy with a religion, and are good people because of it then why judge it?

Mindflux said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Did both of you fail to realise that "some group" made it all up in the first place? Nobody had a "bible" when Christ supposedly existed - that came a few hundred years later! Yet you speak as though God himself wrote the bible and delievered it to the planet some 100,000 years after mankind first appeared here! Christianity IS a man-made tradition, as is the entire concept of a God. Those who invented Christianity simply built upon the many ancient religions that existed before it and used it as a form of taking control of the masses. Its that simple.

I have nothing against either of you having a belief, but suggesting you've thought about it to the extent that you've realised people have tinkered with "what was already there" is laughable. And, as for being "perfect"?! Have you read the Old Testament?! You think God is a nice, "perfect" being there? Hmm?

Did you fail to realize you will never change or shake someone's faith, any more than they apparently are going to change your mind about your refusal to believe in God?

I always find it interesting that athiests are so pro-active in trying to convince Christians they're wrong and demean them by calling them "delusional" or failures for "realizing" something, yet the vast majority of Christians live their lives and are blessed for knowing God on a personal level. Is that the athiest's goal, just to demote people to idiots, and put unhappiness in everyone's heart and lives? Wow, that's something to really rally behind. Oddly, athiests act and sound a lot like the God Hates Fags people. Funny, that.

Now why would anyone wish to take happiness away from someone else? That's the bigger question.

Yes, instead of slamming the door in JW's faces I've bought a shotgun and chase them off my property, shouting Nietzsche killed god and you killed Prince!

MF's!

Blam Blam!

Hallelujah!

ernestsewell said:

Mindflux said:

Did both of you fail to realise that "some group" made it all up in the first place? Nobody had a "bible" when Christ supposedly existed - that came a few hundred years later! Yet you speak as though God himself wrote the bible and delievered it to the planet some 100,000 years after mankind first appeared here! Christianity IS a man-made tradition, as is the entire concept of a God. Those who invented Christianity simply built upon the many ancient religions that existed before it and used it as a form of taking control of the masses. Its that simple.

I have nothing against either of you having a belief, but suggesting you've thought about it to the extent that you've realised people have tinkered with "what was already there" is laughable. And, as for being "perfect"?! Have you read the Old Testament?! You think God is a nice, "perfect" being there? Hmm?

Did you fail to realize you will never change or shake someone's faith, any more than they apparently are going to change your mind about your refusal to believe in God?

I always find it interesting that athiests are so pro-active in trying to convince Christians they're wrong and demean them by calling them "delusional" or failures for "realizing" something, yet the vast majority of Christians live their lives and are blessed for knowing God on a personal level. Is that the athiest's goal, just to demote people to idiots, and put unhappiness in everyone's heart and lives? Wow, that's something to really rally behind. Oddly, athiests act and sound a lot like the God Hates Fags people. Funny, that.

Now why would anyone wish to take happiness away from someone else? That's the bigger question.

We're just making fun of you, because it is simply stupid to claim to "know god on a personal level". That's just ridiculous. People get commited into psychiatries for less than this.

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's my honest opinion. You can believe what you want, and if it's the easter bunny or Ronald MCDonald, but don't expect to be respected for this craziness.

It would concern me if there are any people who have allowed Prince's music or publicity statements to "directly" affect their views on God or religion. How mindless that would make them.

I would concede that Prince can indirectly affect your religious views by making a person want to know more about [insert dogma here].

The only reason that I would hope a person would answer " yes" to the OP's question is if Prince spoke to that person one-on-one about faith and religion; otherwise you would have a pretty shallow foundation for your convictions. "I am a JW because Prince is!"

Good for Prince if he has found comfort in his faith. I'm sure he didn't develop that faith simply because it was the faith of someone he admires.

ludwig said:

We're just making fun of you, because it is simply stupid to claim to "know god on a personal level". That's just ridiculous. People get commited into psychiatries for less than this.

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's my honest opinion. You can believe what you want, and if it's the easter bunny or Ronald MCDonald, but don't expect to be respected for this craziness.

Exactly. Replace the word "god" with "flying rainbow colored elephant" and the whole world would think you're a nutcase.

But there's just as much evidence that the flying rainbow colored elephant exists, as there is for a god. And that would be none.

As for your question Ernest - it's not as simple as "taking happiness away from somebody".

In MANY cases people would be happier without religion. In many cases people would be just as happy one way or the other. And sure, in many cases, people wouldn't be as happy. None of those examples is more prevalent than the other. The VAST majority of people are religious not because they chose to be, but because they were indoctrinated from birth. The obviousness of this is in the fact that religious people are nearly always the same religion as their parents. How often do you meet a Muslim who was raised Christian? How often do you meet a Christian who was raised Muslim? How often do you meet a Christian that was raised Jewish? etc, etc. Hardly ever. It's indoctrination and brainwashing, is what it is, and I happen to find it disgusting and deplorable.

There is NO SUCH THING as "a Christian child" or "a Muslim child". They are children of Christian or Muslim parents. They haven't made those decisions by themselves, and it's utterly wrong to force it on them and brainwash them so early on that they'll pretty much never be able to escape it.

For example - if you had children, and every day since they were born, you told them "Water is dry", and you forced them to go to institutions where everyone else also believed that water is dry, force-fed them endless stories about the dryness of water, made them sing songs about how amazingly dry water is, read books about the incredible dry water that created the planet and everything else, and convinced them that the innate human fear of death was not something to worry about because if they truly believed that water was dry, they would get to go to the great dry-water hole in the sky.......................................then even once those children were fully grown and intelligent, if I one day told them the OBVIOUS and TRUE statement that Water is WET, they would most likely not be able to comprehend it, ever, even if they wanted to. They would continue to believe that water is dry despite all evidence to the contrary because that's something that "they had known" since they were born, and their parents were the same way.

Now replace Water Is Dry with "God exists". The truth? Water ain't dry, and there is no god.

You know what I've written here makes sense. You know it's logical. Maybe, just maybe, deep down you even know it's true. But you'll never admit it.

You said so yourself, you don't believe you can make people change their faith. I disagree.

Eventually, the intelligent, enlightened people come to the realization, sometimes even those that were heavily indoctrined to a faith. I dislike the concept of religion, but I can respect Buddhism, because they do not believe in any god. Buddha rightly stated that the concept of god originates from fear, that there is no evidence for it, and that belief is unrelated to the quality of existence.

It's just completely bizarre that otherwise reasonable, intelligent, logical people, seem perfectly happy to ignore all reason, ignore all intelligence and depth of human knowledge, and ignore logic and common sense when it comes to faith.

But you know what? I'm an open-minded guy. I admit - I'd be perfectly happy to acknowledge the idea of there being a god. I just need one thing - some substantial evidence. Some proof.

If I told you there was a 10-legged magical monkey, you would ask me for some proof.

If I told you that all of Prince's music was secretly written by tribal Aborigines, you'd ask me for some proof.

If I told you that Elvis was alive and living in my basement you'd ask me for some proof.

If I told you that I was the reincarnation of Jesus you would ask me for some proof.

And yet, people insist on hanging on to these out-dated ideas that have actually repressed the progress of humanity for thousands of years and caused a millions times MORE suffering than any happiness they have brought to people, without a single shred of evidence to be found.

If I went out to the world tomorrow and said "I AM THE REINCARNATION OF JESUS", would anyone believe me without proof? So, according to you would my next move be to say "WAHHHHH!!!! WHY DO YOU ALL INSIST ON TAKING AWAY MY HAPPINESS?"

As for what PurpleColossus said, here's the definition of delusion:

"a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion."

I suggest that the exact same description can be given to religious faith. Funny, that.

[Edited 8/20/10 11:31am]

this thread should move...

http://prince.org/msg/105

Has P directly affected your views on God & religion?

In a way, and not for the positive.

I can't believe an intelligent man like Prince believes in that stupid Jehovah crap.

PRNelson said:

During certain moments in Princes music (particualry earlier stuff) I feel that a higher power must exist. Not that Prince is a god or even a catalyst for a god. Just occasionally he plays something so beautiful that it hits me so deep inside that i feel there must be reason for human existence - the guitar solo on the 90's 'Empty room' for instance. I sometimes feel it with Marvin Gayes music, too. That perhaps sounds stupid to many but i think these rare occurences in art are extremely profound.

Do i believe in god any other time? No, not at all.

.........

interesting question.

there are theories that music can influence an individual in different ways, and also that it cannot.

my personal view is that music does have an influence in society, and different types of music have different types of influences.

this is why in the mainstream media, most of the music out there can be clumped into one large category...is there really much variety in message?

this is also why reggae is seldomly heard on mainstream radio...because it does not conform to what the digital garden wants to propogate.

so yes, at different stages prince's music affected my views on God...and I experienced many changes of perspective as he also did; so having listened to him for so many years, i can say i have grown along side his music, whether or not i agree w/ or understood all his 'spiritual' messages

Soul music because it reaches the place where it feels like the Creative Force, God, resides. Princes' music is so profound in the depth that it brings through his combination of sound and lryics that it creates and feels like a link or opening to this Source. imo

As a JW Prince has affected my view of God & religion by reminding me that it requires discipline and is of great importance, to follow The Word of God

One Another

Of course not.

Militant said:

ludwig said:

Exactly. Replace the word "god" with "flying rainbow colored elephant" and the whole world would think you're a nutcase.

But there's just as much evidence that the flying rainbow colored elephant exists, as there is for a god. And that would be none.

As for your question Ernest - it's not as simple as "taking happiness away from somebody".

In MANY cases people would be happier without religion. In many cases people would be just as happy one way or the other. And sure, in many cases, people wouldn't be as happy. None of those examples is more prevalent than the other. The VAST majority of people are religious not because they chose to be, but because they were indoctrinated from birth. The obviousness of this is in the fact that religious people are nearly always the same religion as their parents. How often do you meet a Muslim who was raised Christian? How often do you meet a Christian who was raised Muslim? How often do you meet a Christian that was raised Jewish? etc, etc. Hardly ever. It's indoctrination and brainwashing, is what it is, and I happen to find it disgusting and deplorable.

There is NO SUCH THING as "a Christian child" or "a Muslim child". They are children of Christian or Muslim parents. They haven't made those decisions by themselves, and it's utterly wrong to force it on them and brainwash them so early on that they'll pretty much never be able to escape it.

For example - if you had children, and every day since they were born, you told them "Water is dry", and you forced them to go to institutions where everyone else also believed that water is dry, force-fed them endless stories about the dryness of water, made them sing songs about how amazingly dry water is, read books about the incredible dry water that created the planet and everything else, and convinced them that the innate human fear of death was not something to worry about because if they truly believed that water was dry, they would get to go to the great dry-water hole in the sky.......................................then even once those children were fully grown and intelligent, if I one day told them the OBVIOUS and TRUE statement that Water is WET, they would most likely not be able to comprehend it, ever, even if they wanted to. They would continue to believe that water is dry despite all evidence to the contrary because that's something that "they had known" since they were born, and their parents were the same way.

Now replace Water Is Dry with "God exists". The truth? Water ain't dry, and there is no god.

You know what I've written here makes sense. You know it's logical. Maybe, just maybe, deep down you even know it's true. But you'll never admit it.

You said so yourself, you don't believe you can make people change their faith. I disagree.

Eventually, the intelligent, enlightened people come to the realization, sometimes even those that were heavily indoctrined to a faith. I dislike the concept of religion, but I can respect Buddhism, because they do not believe in any god. Buddha rightly stated that the concept of god originates from fear, that there is no evidence for it, and that belief is unrelated to the quality of existence.

It's just completely bizarre that otherwise reasonable, intelligent, logical people, seem perfectly happy to ignore all reason, ignore all intelligence and depth of human knowledge, and ignore logic and common sense when it comes to faith.

But you know what? I'm an open-minded guy. I admit - I'd be perfectly happy to acknowledge the idea of there being a god. I just need one thing - some substantial evidence. Some proof.

If I told you there was a 10-legged magical monkey, you would ask me for some proof.

If I told you that all of Prince's music was secretly written by tribal Aborigines, you'd ask me for some proof.

If I told you that Elvis was alive and living in my basement you'd ask me for some proof.

If I told you that I was the reincarnation of Jesus you would ask me for some proof.

And yet, people insist on hanging on to these out-dated ideas that have actually repressed the progress of humanity for thousands of years and caused a millions times MORE suffering than any happiness they have brought to people, without a single shred of evidence to be found.

If I went out to the world tomorrow and said "I AM THE REINCARNATION OF JESUS", would anyone believe me without proof? So, according to you would my next move be to say "WAHHHHH!!!! WHY DO YOU ALL INSIST ON TAKING AWAY MY HAPPINESS?"

As for what PurpleColossus said, here's the definition of delusion:

"a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion."

I suggest that the exact same description can be given to religious faith. Funny, that.

[Edited 8/20/10 11:31am]

K, but whatever you feel may not be how others feel. I'm not religious at all, but the whole thing of trying to portray those who have a religion with any sort of god as "delusional" is just stupid..I say let people believe in what they want to, including Prince. If people are happy with a religion, and are good people because of it then why judge it?

I find that people can sometimes take their religion or non religious attitudes too far. People will be what they want to be..People who push their ideas of why a religion is right or wrong is just ignorant IMO. It works both ways for Atheists and Christians.

[Edited 8/20/10 15:41pm]

ernestsewell said:

^^ Not paranoid at all. I'm firm in what I believe, and I have a great life because of it. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

ernestsewell said:

^^ Not paranoid at all. I'm firm in what I believe, and I have a great life because of it. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

You have a great life REGARDLESS of it.

Unless.......you think that your faith is the only great thing about your life....which I would find hard to believe.

Or.... unless everything you consider great about your life (great job, enjoyment of music, great friends, great sexual partners, great family, great hobbies, being financially secure, etc) all came about as a direct result of your faith.......which I would find even harder to believe.

Or maybe you're one of those "HEY THE SUN IS SHINING TODAY!/HEY THE GRASS IS STILL GREEN!/HEY THAT HANGNAIL ON MY FINGER FELL OFF ALL BY ITSELF! THANKYA JESUS! PRAISE THE LORD FOR HE IS SO GREAT!"...... type of people, in which case I will simply roll my eyes sarcastically as it would be clear that intelligent rationale would be pointless.

ernestsewell said:

^^ Not paranoid at all. I'm firm in what I believe, and I have a great life because of it. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

i have certain beliefs too, and if i were to ever change them it would be because of my own life experiences, not what anyone else has to say about it.

i hope that if i ever find a spiritual path that means something to me, i won't become a pious know-it-all about it.

there's a place to talk about it, it's called church, and it happens on sunday mornings.

otherwise i'd like to just chill, feel the strength, and go about my business.

i agree w/ the others; prince has been a good demonstration of what not to do.

[Edited 8/20/10 21:56pm]

How about this...everybody just answer the damn question for themselves and stop trying to tell everybody else what to believe

Just a suggestion.

My answer is no...you gotta be kidding me.