ludwig said:

JonnyApplesauce said:

What I dont get is folx who are conscious and dont belive theres a power greater than their ability to comprehend.

How can you believe in something that no one can comprehend? Im sorry, but you religious folks don't make sense. Why can't you just accept that no one has an explanation what this life is all about?

I'm tired of the back and forth but who deluded you into believing only things you can grasp exist? Thats the height of arrogance. You think understanding begins and ends w/ ignant ass human beings and their 5 senses? How you sound?

JonnyApplesauce said:

ludwig said:

How can you believe in something that no one can comprehend? Im sorry, but you religious folks don't make sense. Why can't you just accept that no one has an explanation what this life is all about?

I'm tired of the back and forth but who deluded you into believing only things you can grasp exist? Thats the height of arrogance. You think understanding begins and ends w/ ignant ass human beings and their 5 senses? How you sound?

It is not arrogant to acknowledge that you don't have a clue about the meaning of life. It is highly arrogant to pretend to know "the truth". I'm not an atheist, but an agnostic.

ludwig said:

JonnyApplesauce said:

I'm tired of the back and forth but who deluded you into believing only things you can grasp exist? Thats the height of arrogance. You think understanding begins and ends w/ ignant ass human beings and their 5 senses? How you sound?

It is not arrogant to acknowledge that you don't have a clue about the meaning of life. It is highly arrogant to pretend to know "the truth". I'm not an atheist, but an agnostic.

The fact that you dont have a clue is the clue. The same arrogance you have in the assumption that youre going to take your next breath is not an inth of the amount of faith you need in knowing there has got to be a greater power than youre able to grasp. A little smaller than a mustard seed and youre on your way. Notice how there some order to stuff you just dont get it? Youre right there is, you just dont get it. Thats God.

[Edited 8/16/10 17:54pm]

JonnyApplesauce said:

ludwig said:

It is not arrogant to acknowledge that you don't have a clue about the meaning of life. It is highly arrogant to pretend to know "the truth". I'm not an atheist, but an agnostic.

The fact that you dont have a clue is the clue. The same arrogance you have in the assumption that youre going to take your next breath is not an inth of the amount of faith you need in knowing there has got to be a greater power than youre able to grasp. A little smaller than a mustard seed and your on your way. Notice how there some order to stuff you just dont get it? Youre right there is, you just dont get it. Thasts God.

Your problem is that you think that you know more than me. But you don't. You believe, but believing means "not knowing". I know that there are a lot of things that I don't comprehend, and I can accept that. You're projecting spritual concepts that someone planted in your head on reality and think that you're wiser, but you're wrong. We are both completely clueless about the true nature of the universe.

Ahhh shut up and agree to disagree.

ludwig said:

JonnyApplesauce said:

The fact that you dont have a clue is the clue. The same arrogance you have in the assumption that youre going to take your next breath is not an inth of the amount of faith you need in knowing there has got to be a greater power than youre able to grasp. A little smaller than a mustard seed and your on your way. Notice how there some order to stuff you just dont get it? Youre right there is, you just dont get it. Thasts God.

Your problem is that you think that you know more than me. But you don't. You believe, but believing means "not knowing". I know that there are a lot of things that I don't comprehend, and I can accept that. You're projecting spritual concepts that someone planted in your head on reality and think that you're wiser, but you're wrong. We are both completely clueless about the true nature of the universe.

No I dont think I know more than you. And whiile my community has a long history of belief I havent gone along w/ everything they told us from birth. We are at an impass. My initial comment re: people who didnt believe was not intended for you or anyone else specifically. Human gauge is just that. It often leads to ego and bs arguments like this one. Believe what you want. God however, is very real.

come to think of it one thing i have learned from prince is that if your inward beliefs arent lived fully in your every day life you end up crazy from trying to patch up the facade all the time

if your spirituality is just a vanity where you say you believe in something but cant manage to pull it off for real then you need to re-examine your motives for believing in what you believe

i think the whole universe is made of love, and by that i dont mean some romantic notion where everything is fairies rainbows and butterflies,

i mean love as in a motion or a force which totally burns up anything that opposes it

universal cosmic love is one of the most violent and terrifying forces if you insist on resisting your better nature, which so many of us do with our egos and dire need to be right all the time

then it gets complicated cuz we believe what we believe and we want other people to believe it too and suddenly the core truth of our beliefs gets lost in futile competition between faiths

i think scientists are just as much in search of 'god' or the Divine or whatever you want to call it just as much as anyone else, they even look for the God Particle,

and some in quantum physics discovered what they call a FLUX POINT which i think is basically a prick of light that vibrates so fast like pure energy if you filled your physical body with it you'd burn up and vanish

our physical dimension is the densest vibration of light in the universe, where we walk around in cumbersome bodies getting sick and fumbling around, is it any wonder so many of us want to believe in something better lol

i do, but for me it starts with me and ends with me. my relationship with the Divine is shaky at the best of times,

but it takes a lot of humility and practice and constantly checking urself to make sure ur really demonstrating your connection with GRACE on a daily basis.

i love the physical dimension for all its beauty and what we as human beings can do with our five senses,

but i like to think that our sixth sense isnt a bunch of hogwash, and if we just tuned in to our better nature more often the world would be a nicer place and we'd all get along a bit better.

i don't know enough about being a jw to comment...BUT i will. heh.

seems to me he's lost a lot of what made him so desireable, interesting and unique.especially in his lyrics. i can point to 'controversy' as being a song with lyrics i can really get behind. probably a lot of you feel the same way. i came to THAT prince. i was enraptured with THAT prince and i can hardly make heads or tails of what this prince is, honestly.

back in the day i looked at what prince was saying and doing and all the outlanish sexuality and general freedom of being didn't seem inconguous with believing in god. i think he has it all twisted now. my belief is that god gave you free will and you should do something interesting with that. something artistic. creative. individual.

i felt vindicated by prince to be a freak who also happened to believe in god. or a believer in god who also happened to be a freak. however you want to put it...i was proud to be both. to revel in my sexuality and explore all the things there were to be and also believe in a higher power.

i feel like being a jw has restricted, not freed him creatively, sorry to say. and if anything his religion has made me wary of organized religion even more than i already was. i'm not intrigued, i'm just confused and sort of sad to have lost a kindred spirit in him.

DigUBetterDead said:

i don't know enough about being a jw to comment...BUT i will. heh.

seems to me he's lost a lot of what made him so desireable, interesting and unique.especially in his lyrics. i can point to 'controversy' as being a song with lyrics i can really get behind. probably a lot of you feel the same way. i came to THAT prince. i was enraptured with THAT prince and i can hardly make heads or tails of what this prince is, honestly.

back in the day i looked at what prince was saying and doing and all the outlanish sexuality and general freedom of being didn't seem inconguous with believing in god. i think he has it all twisted now. my belief is that god gave you free will and you should do something interesting with that. something artistic. creative. individual.

i felt vindicated by prince to be a freak who also happened to believe in god. or a believer in god who also happened to be a freak. however you want to put it...i was proud to be both. to revel in my sexuality and explore all the things there were to be and also believe in a higher power.

i feel like being a jw has restricted, not freed him creatively, sorry to say. and if anything his religion has made me wary of organized religion even more than i already was. i'm not intrigued, i'm just confused and sort of sad to have lost a kindred spirit in him.

Are you living in my head??? Because that's exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread!

Prince's most profound statement about religion (and truest, to me) was "Love is God / God is Love".

Now he's all "God says no swearing, God says no kissing boys, God says no funky bleu cheese"... ugh.

Prince in the past affected me by making me realize that God is everywhere and in everything... whatever your particular God is - sex, science, trees, cats, whatever - they won't say that you're naive, as long as you believe!

But now he's too single-minded... he should listen to his own lyrics (Escape!). It seems though it's too late. Luckily, the message still lives on in his past music and anyone inspired by it.

[Edited 8/16/10 20:27pm]

Prince intriqued me more when he was looking for "The Ladder". Now that he has apparantly found and embraced his spirituality, not as much. Personally I find the journey more fascinating than the destination, so I guess the short answer is no.

Taught me to open my heart..Open my mind...Pure AWARENESS

No. I'm agnostic, and don't look to a pop star for religious/spiritual guidance. Whatever religious mumbo jumbo comes out of his mouth goes in one ear and out the other. I do respect his right to believe what he wants, and that his religion has brought him peace after events in his life that deeply affected him. I just don't agree with him.

That said, I actually tend to prefer his religious and politically-themed songs, even if I often don't agree with the lyrics, as I find his songs to sound more inspired musically when he's singing something he cares or believes strongly about. I'll take an album like TRC over Prince on auto-pilot any day.

ernestsewell said:

It's weird.

I was firm in my faith and wasn't wavering from it when I was listening to Prince. He started to mention God more probably around 1981 and forward. I was probably more dogmatic in my belief as a teenager and into my 20's than Prince was in his 20's and 30's.

However, it seems that when he started to hone in on the JW cult faith, I started to loosen up on mine. The basics of what I believe are there, but over time I have dropped the man-made traditions and pretentiousness of Christianity. I've reexamined a lot of things I thought I believed, and realized - some church or group made "that part" or "this part" up to try and compliment what was already there, and what was already perfect.

I found myself in conversations w/ folks constantly saying, "but that's not what God said in the Bible". I realized thing were changing for me. I realized that "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there [at that place] is liberty". I'd never felt liberty like I feel now in following God. I feel like Prince is the opposite of that now. He comes across very hindered, shackled and in submission to religion, not God. Of course you can't be in bondage to something you didn't submit to.

So did P effect my view of God? No! It's just an interesting view when I look at it with 20/20 hindsight, and see that we switched sides of the extreme.

That is a tidy summing up. I can relate to that. I was brought up quite dogmatically and as a child related to that dogma. However in my teens I pretty much didnt align with the Prince issues of sex and God but I don't feel Prince had any influence over me-he jsut seemed to be around at the right time. However I'm like you Ernest I feel like Prince and myself have almost switched sides.

However let's remember we can all bang on about truth and sneer at Prince's faith but where I check myself is that I dont know how celebrities , particularly ones as idiosyncratic as Prince, cannot go mad without clinging on to something. Their routines, adoration must knock them off whack. Surely this is why we see Kabbalah/Scientology etc in the celebrity world and yet would never (Or at least in my experience) meet such a follower at my local store

Elle85n09 said:

Prince intriqued me more when he was looking for "The Ladder". Now that he has apparantly found and embraced his spirituality, not as much. Personally I find the journey more fascinating than the destination, so I guess the short answer is no.

I think that's also because while he is SEARCHING-one cannot necessarily contradict him. Now spiritually I suppose he has drawn a line in the sand and wrongly or rightly it is far easier to judge him

jcurley said:

I think that's also because while he is SEARCHING-one cannot necessarily contradict him. Now spiritually I suppose he has drawn a line in the sand and wrongly or rightly it is far easier to judge him

as it says in the bible "judge not lest ye be judged"

notice how no one was judging him when he wasn't judging anyone?

since he became JW he started saying things that were very judgmental so it only makes sense according to universal law that he would be judged right back

but be it far from me to do so

interesting question.

there are theories that music can influence an individual in different ways, and also that it cannot.

my personal view is that music does have an influence in society, and different types of music have different types of influences.

this is why in the mainstream media, most of the music out there can be clumped into one large category...is there really much variety in message?

this is also why reggae is seldomly heard on mainstream radio...because it does not conform to what the digital garden wants to propogate.

so yes, at different stages prince's music affected my views on God...and I experienced many changes of perspective as he also did; so having listened to him for so many years, i can say i have grown along side his music, whether or not i agree w/ or understood all his 'spiritual' messages

[Edited 8/17/10 6:30am]

most definately

rainbowchild said:

2freaky4church1 said:

P doesn't follow a church, he follows a cult. So God has nothing to do with it. He needs to follow the real Christ before he loses his soul.

He needs 2 b his own man again and not follow ANY religion.

what if he's happier though?, maybe he needs some boundaries?.

No.

But occasionally his having mentioned something religious-related will generate enough interest for me to conduct a little research so I know more about what he's talking about.

JoeTyler said:

I know this is gonna be controversial, but I have to say it anyway:

his conversion to JW's stuff made me think that he's just one of those black celebrities who are just not comfortable following the religion of the white majority, Christianity...And them came "Avalanche" which more or less confirms my theory...

Perhaps this is pure bullshit, but I've said I just needed to say it...

why a convinced Christian (black, white, red, yellow or whatever) should leave Jesus to embrace JW's jimbo-jambo is beyond me...

[Edited 8/16/10 16:08pm]

JoeTyler - It is obvious you do not understand that Jehovah Witnesses are Christian and do acknowledge Jesus as Jehovah's son and the ransom sacrifice. For further information you can go to http://www.watchtower.org

Just KeepinItReal

I was more intrigued by his views about God in the early years. Since he became a JW he seems somewhat close minded. But I still admire how he seems to be able to connect with god on a level that most people are not able too. For me Prince has a devine aura and the wisdom of an old soul that has walked the earth many times before. He knows he was sent here for a reason and his music is his way of reaching people. Prince is on a higher plane than most believers I know.

His profound spirituality drew me to Prince from the very beginning. His talent is extraordinaire and god given. His song-lyrics touch me in ways that other songs or artists can't . Prince didn't change my view of God and religion but he definitely made me more aware of God. I admire and love Prince for that.

Hell naw.

muirdo said:

Nah still an athiest through choice.

This ^

billymeade said:

DigUBetterDead said:

i don't know enough about being a jw to comment...BUT i will. heh.

seems to me he's lost a lot of what made him so desireable, interesting and unique.especially in his lyrics. i can point to 'controversy' as being a song with lyrics i can really get behind. probably a lot of you feel the same way. i came to THAT prince. i was enraptured with THAT prince and i can hardly make heads or tails of what this prince is, honestly.

back in the day i looked at what prince was saying and doing and all the outlanish sexuality and general freedom of being didn't seem inconguous with believing in god. i think he has it all twisted now. my belief is that god gave you free will and you should do something interesting with that. something artistic. creative. individual.

i felt vindicated by prince to be a freak who also happened to believe in god. or a believer in god who also happened to be a freak. however you want to put it...i was proud to be both. to revel in my sexuality and explore all the things there were to be and also believe in a higher power.

i feel like being a jw has restricted, not freed him creatively, sorry to say. and if anything his religion has made me wary of organized religion even more than i already was. i'm not intrigued, i'm just confused and sort of sad to have lost a kindred spirit in him.

Are you living in my head??? Because that's exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread!

Prince's most profound statement about religion (and truest, to me) was "Love is God / God is Love".

Now he's all "God says no swearing, God says no kissing boys, God says no funky bleu cheese"... ugh.

Prince in the past affected me by making me realize that God is everywhere and in everything... whatever your particular God is - sex, science, trees, cats, whatever - they won't say that you're naive, as long as you believe!

But now he's too single-minded... he should listen to his own lyrics (Escape!). It seems though it's too late. Luckily, the message still lives on in his past music and anyone inspired by it.

[Edited 8/16/10 20:27pm]

THIS and THIS.

I've never been an organized religion type, even though I was raised Baptist and went to Catholic schools up until college. I didn't knock it, it just wasn't for me. But I respected that people sometimes need SOMETHING to believe in otherwise they just feel lost, like life has no purpose. Understandable. I think that before the JW conversion P was at that point where he needed something to believe in, but didn't know exactly what that was.. and I could relate to that. I mean who in the hell would sing a song like Darling Nikki, then put some backmasking behind it talking about "I'm fine cause I know the Lord is coming." I totally dug that about him, the juxtaopsition of sex and God in the same arena, that you CAN do that, you can have a sexual side and STILL have a spiritual side as well. He made it okay.

I have not met ONE JW who wasn't ding dong in the head. For real. So when I heard that he'd converted I was like WHAT??? It felt like invasion of the body snatchers or something. He's like a robot now... don't do this, dont eat that, don't say this, don't sing that. What happened to that free spirit I could relate to?

Now granted he's released some musical gems since he's been a JW, I wouldn't say that his creativity has completely disappeared and like before, there are religious references in his music and that had not bothered me before and still doesn't bother me, but something just feels different. He's not relatable. If anything his conversion has made me more against organized religion and lean more towards personal truth and spirituality. It's also made me want to live my own life by MY own rules, not a man made/man interpreted Bible or some version of a version of the Bible or any of that nonsense.

He seems happy and I am very happy for him. I just wanted to say that. I'm happy that he's happy. I just wish he were able to find that happiness outside of some organized religion.

[Edited 8/17/10 14:32pm]

Somehow it seems american celebrities need to be either JW, Scientology, freemasons or drugaddicts ....I would say JW is the winner

I'm still an atheist, but I'm not sure if I realised a religious song could make me mewl until I heard his music.

keepinitreal said:

JoeTyler said:

I know this is gonna be controversial, but I have to say it anyway:

his conversion to JW's stuff made me think that he's just one of those black celebrities who are just not comfortable following the religion of the white majority, Christianity...And them came "Avalanche" which more or less confirms my theory...

Perhaps this is pure bullshit, but I've said I just needed to say it...

why a convinced Christian (black, white, red, yellow or whatever) should leave Jesus to embrace JW's jimbo-jambo is beyond me...

[Edited 8/16/10 16:08pm]

JoeTyler - It is obvious you do not understand that Jehovah Witnesses are Christian and do acknowledge Jesus as Jehovah's son and the ransom sacrifice. For further information you can go to http://www.watchtower.org

Just KeepinItReal

oh really? "Did Jesus Really Die on a Cross?" ;

please, oh please

Sometimes I imagine an Artist turning the whole collection of scriptures into just one album / or a double ...the hebrew chapters vs the greek sheepz sheetz .....what a Wow !!

keepinitreal said:

JoeTyler - It is obvious you do not understand that Jehovah Witnesses are Christian and do acknowledge Jesus as Jehovah's son and the ransom sacrifice. For further information you can go to http://www.watchtower.org

You're very wrong about them being a Christian denomination, or the same as any other like Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalian, etc. Go educate yourself past the WatchLiar website.