DocZorro said:

It seems to me that many here on the org live in the past regarding Prince. At least it's the only reason I can think of when looking at all the negative comments.

Please remind me: which songs did Prince play in concert? Hint: they were 25+ years old.

Gohi said:

Am watching the one they made for Nice. I was filled with the same feelings I got from the other shows (god this is lame, why doesn't prince seem to care anymore, he needs a new fucking band) but then... Shhh started.

Amazing performance of my favorite live Prince song. Reminds me why he's my favorite artist ever and favorite guitarist. Some awesome soulful guitar improv even if he uses the whammy too much. The whole time I am watching him improv on this song I am spellbound... it's a mystery to me how he comes up with stuff like this off the top of his head.

Then Cream started.

P needs a major change in direction and in band lineups. He can still deliver with certain lineups... Montreux 2009 and the Conga Room trio gigs prove that. These shows and the shows in Paris and MN prove that the well is tapped when it comes to this soulless, lifeless band. I mean, respect to 'em but Cora and Josh have to be two of the most boring live performers of all time. Shelby J's voice practically hurts my ears at this point. This band reached its peak in 2007 and now it's a sad shell of itself for some reason. Retire 'er Prince.

Also, what's with this ballerina / dancer shit? I thought we were done with that crap after Rave...

Once he replaced John Blackwell, I was like, this won't be the same. No one, except Michael B, measures up. Even Sheila can't keep up IMO. She compliments the band on percussion much better.

ohYeeeeeah said:

The media have realized since MJ's death he is one of the very last legends out there.

Hilarious. Proof? Nope, just you making shit up.

DocZorro said:

There are quite a few bands who allow bootlegs, eg REM (there's even a torrent tracker).

Back in the early 1990s, REM did an acoustic gig under the moniker Bingo Hand Job. This resulted in a great sounding bootleg... and a few of the tracks from that gig ended up as B-Sides, which sounded EXACTLY like the bootleg.

ohYeeeeeah said:

eireboy34 said:

More popular now??!!

OK, now I know you're on something!!!!

[Edited 8/2/10 10:05am]

[Edited 8/2/10 10:09am]

Yes he is. 15 years ago. Prince toured Europe with the GE Tour and nobody gave a shit. He could have never filled Werchter or Roskilde. Then came the tour in 1998 in Europe and same story. The media just ignored him completely. he was a big loser. In 2002, he came with a great band, a great CD and a great Tour and again: the media did not give a shit.

He played small venues for years before the Musicology Tour amazing success. That's when he started to get more attention from the media. Then 2007 and the fantastic success in London at the O2. And now. The Paris residency will be massive as well.

ps: I invite you to see how people react when he turns up on stage to play with Stevie. He has become a real R&R legend now while he was considered as a big has been act at the end of the nineties.

OK OK you're right!!!!!

Happy now??!!

Jesus!!! Teenagers these days!!!!!

[Edited 8/2/10 11:43am]

BartVanHemelen said:

DocZorro said:

It seems to me that many here on the org live in the past regarding Prince. At least it's the only reason I can think of when looking at all the negative comments.

Please remind me: which songs did Prince play in concert? Hint: they were 25+ years old.

I was referring to those who still see Prince as the Superstar of the Purple Rain era. Prince in 2010 is something completely different. He does his thing, plays when and what he wants. If a gig is sold out or not is just important to the promoter.

You want classic Prince? Enjoy the SOTT dvd.

You want one of the best musicians/guitar players performing a no limit funk revue even in not sold out places? Get the next available ticket.

Shango said:

jfrost said:

Just learnt that there is an Arras one about to be released from the same team.

Title is "Prince Of The Citadelle"

I just noticed the photographer in the left-corner of the heart-shape ... bizarre-angle

I noticed him as well and was wondering if it was Prince with a silly pair of glasses on!!!

The stubble, mustache are of similar shapes in both pictures!!!

BartVanHemelen said:

ohYeeeeeah said:

This is bullshit and you know it. Only the Geneva concert was not doing well at all in terms of sales. The tix were very expensive and the gigs organized quite late + it's crisis time in case you don't know it. So it is a massive success whether you like it or not.

Bullcrap.

Werchter: thousands of tickets given away for free through newspaper. 1/3 hadn't been sold mere days before the gig.

Arras: tickets at half-price due to abysmal sales.

Linz was moved to a much smaller place.

Berlin: far from sold out.

Etcetera.

I know several people who said they'd go to Werchter if Arras was good; they returned from Arras seriosuly disappointed. A colleague went to Werchter and returned super-annoyed because Prince decided it would be fun to stop the gig four times; was even more annoyed when I pointed out that the setlist was exactly the same as on previous gigs, and that Prince wasn't playing extra songs to reward the audience.

1) Festivals sell many of their tix at the last minute even for big acts. Bruce Springsteen sold more than a third of his tix for his unique concert last year in France at les Vielles Charrues the week before the gig.

2) Arras: half the price! Even half the price was the price of a regular concert. The tix were far too expensive. Again: it is crisis time out there. people are far from being loaded. There were 22000 people in Arras despite the fact Werchter was not that far away from Arras. That was very good. Prince would have never sold that amount of tix ten years ago.

3) Berlin was nearly sold out. 2000 tix left only.

4) You say "I know several people who said they'd go to Werchter if Arras was good". Proove it! I want names, phone numbers addresses as I smell you're making that shit up again.

5) There is no way you have a colleague. No, not you. You're far too smart. You must own your company by now and manage hundreds of people on a daily basis.

But let's accept the fact you're not the super businessman I thought you would become one day (God, I had a bet on you. I'm very disappointed). Tell your colleague is a fucking moron. He stopped the gig four times! They are called ENCORES!!!! It was probably his first concert.

ohYeeeeeah said:

GustavoRibas said:

- Speaking of DVDs, it´s such a shame that Prince didnt release Montreux officially. Everything was already filmed...

Eagles prod will release it in a few months time.

source?

ohYeeeeeah said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Bullcrap.

Werchter: thousands of tickets given away for free through newspaper. 1/3 hadn't been sold mere days before the gig.

Arras: tickets at half-price due to abysmal sales.

Linz was moved to a much smaller place.

Berlin: far from sold out.

Etcetera.

I know several people who said they'd go to Werchter if Arras was good; they returned from Arras seriosuly disappointed. A colleague went to Werchter and returned super-annoyed because Prince decided it would be fun to stop the gig four times; was even more annoyed when I pointed out that the setlist was exactly the same as on previous gigs, and that Prince wasn't playing extra songs to reward the audience.

1) Festivals sell many of their tix at the last minute even for big acts. Bruce Springsteen sold more than a third of his tix for his unique concert last year in France at les Vielles Charrues the week before the gig.

2) Arras: half the price! Even half the price was the price of a regular concert. The tix were far too expensive. Again: it is crisis time out there. people are far from being loaded. There were 22000 people in Arras despite the fact Werchter was not that far away from Arras. That was very good. Prince would have never sold that amount of tix ten years ago.

3) Berlin was nearly sold out. 2000 tix left only.

4) You say "I know several people who said they'd go to Werchter if Arras was good". Proove it! I want names, phone numbers addresses as I smell you're making that shit up again.

5) There is no way you have a colleague. No, not you. You're far too smart. You must own your company by now and manage hundreds of people on a daily basis.

But let's accept the fact you're not the super businessman I thought you would become one day (God, I had a bet on you. I'm very disappointed). Tell your colleague is a fucking moron. He stopped the gig four times! They are called ENCORES!!!! It was probably his first concert.

I had an idea you were French.

Now I'm sure!!

eireboy34 said:

I had an idea you were French.

Now I'm sure!!

I've read you for a long time now. You've always been a racist.

I have great irish friends who visit us every year. I know Ireland pretty well as well. Very nice and friendly people. French and irish people get on very well. I was at the last game between Biarritz and Munster. We spent hours and hours all together french and irish sharing an amazing time.

There is no way you're 100% irish.

Shango said:

Gohi said:

Ooh he got some hot busty french chicks dancing on stage for A love Bizarre. Niiiiiice. (sweet !) Yonnet get outta the way! ()

But ... i don't see Love Bizarre mentioned in the dvd-setlists lol ... was it mixed in a medley ? And how are the versions of "Sexy Dancer"/"Controversy"/"1999" ?

Are the synths adding that freaky groove to the mix ? Also interesting how "Shake Your Body" sounds.

Haha, I was referring to the Nice multi-cam dvd thing that was just released.

GustavoRibas said:

- Speaking of DVDs, it´s such a shame that Prince didnt release Montreux officially. Everything was already filmed...

That has been going on in his career since the beginning. It doesn't really guarantee any release of it, unfortunately.

BartVanHemelen said:

ohYeeeeeah said:

The media have realized since MJ's death he is one of the very last legends out there.

Hilarious. Proof? Nope, just you making shit up.

jfrost said:

Shango said:

I just noticed the photographer in the left-corner of the heart-shape ... bizarre-angle

I noticed him as well and was wondering if it was Prince with a silly pair of glasses on!!!

The stubble, mustache are of similar shapes in both pictures!!!

He is a celebrity photographer. Mike Ruiz, I think is his name. Prince did a very similar pic for the SOTT tourbook, heart shaped mirror and all. The photographer was Jeff Katz.

ohYeeeeeah said:

vc40 said:

I remember several Nude-concerts that weren't sold out.

btw: wasn't this topic about a dvd-bootleg?

The Lovesexy Tour in the US tix sales wise was very bad as well.

I saw him in Chicago on the Lovesexy tour, 3 sold out shows is not "very bad".

BartVanHemelen said:

ohYeeeeeah said:

This is bullshit and you know it. Only the Geneva concert was not doing well at all in terms of sales. The tix were very expensive and the gigs organized quite late + it's crisis time in case you don't know it. So it is a massive success whether you like it or not.

Bullcrap.

Werchter: thousands of tickets given away for free through newspaper. 1/3 hadn't been sold mere days before the gig.

Arras: tickets at half-price due to abysmal sales.

Linz was moved to a much smaller place.

Berlin: far from sold out.

Etcetera.

I know several people who said they'd go to Werchter if Arras was good; they returned from Arras seriosuly disappointed. A colleague went to Werchter and returned super-annoyed because Prince decided it would be fun to stop the gig four times; was even more annoyed when I pointed out that the setlist was exactly the same as on previous gigs, and that Prince wasn't playing extra songs to reward the audience.

get your facts straight

he never stopped the concert 4 times it was an ENCORE ! ( ; stopping a song on the 1 on the 2 etc like he's been doing for years and years)

regarding the setlists ;

there are minor changes throughout on this tour

and have you even got a clue about his past setlists ? ;

fe , look up the Nude and Lovesexy tours and setlists of each gig and you'll notice that they are identical a lot of a time too

so what exactly is your point ?

[Edited 8/3/10 5:13am]

DocZorro said:

robinhood said:

ok, but prince's concert is the result of 30 years of experience, reduced to fan-vids from youtube.

whatever effort it takes to make a video like this is nothing compared with the amount of effort prince puts in, not just for this concert, but for his whole entire career.

and why the need to rip his artwork to make it appear official?

you might think a quick concert download degrades the idea of a bootleg, but some might say a bootleg degrades the artist.

but no one seems to care about that.

The only reason why an artist and/or record companies try to prohibit bootlegs is: money. I know some people in the media business and none could ever explain how they measure the loss of profit. In fact there's maybe a handful of boots which would have been profitable sales wise.

There are quite a few bands who allow bootlegs, eg REM (there's even a torrent tracker). Or Kiss: they asked for yt clips to be put on the official page while touring Europe.

A bootleg can never degrade an artist. When he doesn't want that his performance will be heard he should stay at home instead. A bootleg was kind of an indicator (pre internet): how many fans are out there willing to do something more or less legal to relive a concert? (I'm talking concerts here. Outtakes are a different animal).

So, imho every artist should be proud when the first bootlegs surface.

not sure money is the only reason why artists or record companies try to prohibit bootlegs, but i understand it's a major factor.

also not sure that any band can 'allow' a bootleg if their audience is only gunna do it anyway, its not like the artist can stop them.

probably more to the point; the artist complies with their audience's demands to release them.

i disagree that a bootleg 'can never degrade an artist', but each to their own opinion i guess.

i understand fans want to re-live concerts, i just dont understand why.

similarly, i appreciate that fans think they are doing the artist a favor, and/or paying them a compliment when they make bootlegs and release them, and in their mind the artist should feel proud and flattered...

but that's a line of defense that doesnt sit with me, because if the true motivation is to help and compliment the artist, then fans would also be careful to respect the artist as well.

it might be more the case that fans want to feel like they are part of the artist's career in some way, and they want the praises that come with it,

they gain a sense of self-worth by becoming involved, by compiling and altering someone else's work, including the artwork.

this seems to be more about the fans getting what they want, regardless of any ethic. so in that sense it could be said the bootleggers motivations are entirely selfish no matter how much they might try to convince themselves otherwise.

might also be true that fans value their own opinion of an artists work, more than what the artist thinks, or how the artist wants to be marketed and released.

it's no secret that many prince fans believe they know better than prince, and yet prince is the one who has maintained a 30 year career, entirely regardless of any effect bootlegs may have had on his success.

prince is successful because of what prince does, and whilst he needs fans to support him financially, i dont regard him so inept that he needs our constant help with his product.

might even be fair to say that bootleggers know full well that what they doing is shifty, but they dont care, because they rather satisfy themselves, than respectfully heed the artists wishes.

just my two cents with no offense intended.

motherfunka said:

ohYeeeeeah said:

The Lovesexy Tour in the US tix sales wise was very bad as well.

I saw him in Chicago on the Lovesexy tour, 3 sold out shows is not "very bad".

That's Chicago. Lovesexy's US run was full of half-filled arenas and poor ticket sales.

Gohi said:

Shango said:

But ... i don't see Love Bizarre mentioned in the dvd-setlists lol ... was it mixed in a medley ? And how are the versions of "Sexy Dancer"/"Controversy"/"1999" ?

Are the synths adding that freaky groove to the mix ? Also interesting how "Shake Your Body" sounds.

Haha, I was referring to the Nice multi-cam dvd thing that was just released.

Aha lol, i'll be checking that out too !

Shango said:

Gohi said:

Haha, I was referring to the Nice multi-cam dvd thing that was just released.

Aha lol, i'll be checking that out too !

You won't regret it. It's definitely the best show I have seen from the Europe shows this summer. It restored my faith in him a bit.

Cool ! Thanks again for recommending

Just skipped through the dvd. Bit like cooking really... you put shit in, you get shit out.

You people are freaking nuts.

So is Prince.

robinhood said:

DocZorro said:

Back in the old days when Vinyl was king and the internet just some geek stuff at universities it was a fact that collecting bootlegs is something you do on top of bought releases. No one bought a bootleg instead of an official release.

Today especially the younger crowd thinks that music is free because you can download it. Most of the time it takes less than 24 hours before you can download a concert. It completely degrades the idea of a bootleg.

At least there are some releases which are made with the experience in mind, releases that celebrate the artist and the event. I, for my part, like the Werchter video because it's the result of many hours locating footage, syncing and so on.

ok, but prince's concert is the result of 30 years of experience, reduced to fan-vids from youtube.

whatever effort it takes to make a video like this is nothing compared with the amount of effort prince puts in, not just for this concert, but for his whole entire career.

and why the need to rip his artwork to make it appear official?

you might think a quick concert download degrades the idea of a bootleg, but some might say a bootleg degrades the artist.

but no one seems to care about that.

I painfully agree. I collect audio performances wherever I can find them and as I do so I understand that these performances were intimate and personal for those who actually paid to see them. I cannot speak for anyone else other than myself, but, even though I realise this there's still this need to hear these performances, as each concert is different from the others in terms of sound and song arrangements, there is still the "stealing" factor of each time I download something I didn't pay to see when the shows were performed.

Having said all of that, even though I have so many of his shows, I would still purchase these shows in half-a-heartbeat if he would release them officially.

Purpleaxxe1972 said:

robinhood said:

ok, but prince's concert is the result of 30 years of experience, reduced to fan-vids from youtube.

whatever effort it takes to make a video like this is nothing compared with the amount of effort prince puts in, not just for this concert, but for his whole entire career.

and why the need to rip his artwork to make it appear official?

you might think a quick concert download degrades the idea of a bootleg, but some might say a bootleg degrades the artist.

but no one seems to care about that.

I painfully agree. I collect audio performances wherever I can find them and as I do so I understand that these performances were intimate and personal for those who actually paid to see them. I cannot speak for anyone else other than myself, but, even though I realise this there's still this need to hear these performances, as each concert is different from the others in terms of sound and song arrangements, there is still the "stealing" factor of each time I download something I didn't pay to see when the shows were performed.

Having said all of that, even though I have so many of his shows, I would still purchase these shows in half-a-heartbeat if he would release them officially.

i'm all for free music for personal use, one on one, where the downloader is simply accessing something they enjoy for no profit.

unfortunately most commercial artists are too tied up with their egos to remember the simple things we were taught in school, like sharing.

creating an actual bootleg compilation of an aritsts work and ripping their artwork as well, is a different matter though, in my humble opinion.

my focus on this subject is less to do with money, and more to do with the disregard of any ethic in relation to the artists wishes in how they would like to be represented.

eg: i downloaded 20ten for free with no guilt whatsoever. it is an official prince release, as is, unaltered, exactly the way he wanted to be represented, musically and artistically.

i do not care to pander to prince's ego on the subject of money or his lack of comprehension of the simple concept of sharing, and giving.

however, i will never download or buy a bootleg of any description. i am not interested in what other people do with prince's work.

and i do not support the flagrant disregard of the integrity of prince's work in how the music is remixed and the artwork is altered.

that might cause offence for some bootleggers, who most likely believe they are somehow personally attached to prince's career and that they should be thanked for making their creations available.

i would rather see videos about them and their lives, their creativity and their own work, than any attempt made to take, alter and re-release the work of a prolific musical genius.

motherfunka said:

jfrost said:

I noticed him as well and was wondering if it was Prince with a silly pair of glasses on!!!

The stubble, mustache are of similar shapes in both pictures!!! (lolz..)

He is a celebrity photographer. Mike Ruiz, I think is his name. Prince did a very similar pic for the SOTT tourbook, heart shaped mirror and all. The photographer was Jeff Katz.

Thanx Jeff's SOTT-tour pics are indeed great.

ohYeeeeeah said:

GustavoRibas said:

- Speaking of DVDs, it´s such a shame that Prince didnt release Montreux officially. Everything was already filmed...

Eagles prod will release it in a few months time.

That would be great !