^

BartVanHemelen said:

pepper7 said:

Lovely, this is the response you get when you ask a perfectly innocent question...

The OP claimed "Year was 1980 and not too many artist had a chance to release album with themes such as incest,oral sex,sex in daddy's car,threesome..." which is bullshit. If the OP knew about music history, then he wouldn't state such nonsense as fact.

you seems to know, why don't you teach us some history lessons then, instead of ridicule the original poster. After all he/she is just starting a debate, right?

sorry Bart, but your negative reply is too easy.

[Edited 7/31/10 11:21am]

the original poster is He (me )

I never said that Prince's album was the first to sing about subjects i

mention before.

Of course other artist cover the ground before him,

it's just Dirty Mind

album is planned to be a shocker.

Prince was a rising r'n 'b pop star and i doubt that everybody was thrilled

that he is going to release album that will get minim to non airplay at all.

as for Ernest,ok Ernest my english is not perfect,but i speak 3 languages,

so what other languages beside english you know to speak?

thebanishedone said:

Imagine in today climate some male pop star like Justin or Chris Brown release album with lyrics such as "blowjob doesn't mean blow" or something like that first they would not pass censorship,second they would not be given a chance to release something like that. Logic tells me that Prince had problems about that album and if anybody know the details please share Fellow orger stated some retails refused to sell album in the stores because of the cover

MAN they wouldn't even get AWAY with it much less sing about it.

Of course Prince would have problems...with the material NOW lol

Sorry you got bitched about what you posted by the way lol

PDogz said:

MikeyB71 said:

When it was first released on 8th Oct 1980, the album was said to have surprised and confused Prince's audience with it's use of sexually explicit lyrics and themes, and the blend of funk and rock music.

Anyone that was familiar with Prince at that time ("Prince's audience") was neither surprised nor confused by the sexually explicit lyrics and/or themes. On the contrary: Those of us who were familiar with Prince (his audience) saw "Dirty Mind" as the closest representation of his stage act to date, over and beyond the two preceding LP's. Neither was the blending of Funk and Rock music "surprising" to any of Prince's audience.

Co-Sign. Thanx!

MikeyB71 said:

PDogz said:

In regards to what you copied and pasted (I'm assuming), I would define "Prince's audience" as people who were familiar with Prince at the time, and had seen him perform. And by THAT definition, I would stand by my statement. I would not define "every single person who ever bought a Prince record" as "Prince's audience".

You have your definition, i have mine. Someone else will undoubtedly have theirs.

That's not how it works.

There is a finite set that is Prince's audience.

Definition is not subject to opinion.

So, when one says 'Prince's audience' one should be including those who self-identify as Prince's audience.

They need not necessarily have attended a concert or have bought an album to self-identify as a member of Prince's audience.

I disagree with what you posted for being 1) unaccredited and no source cited and

2) it generalizes regarding Prince fans, which as you can see, is a problem.

Timmy84 said:

MikeyB71 said:

Yes, that is the point i was trying to put across in my post. That maybe some of the people who were familiar with For You and Prince may have been surprised by the way that Dirty Mind sounded. Maybe expecting a sound more akin to the first two albums.

Yep. Sounds-wise this was different because he incorporated punk, rock and new wave into his brand of funk, soul and R&B. It made for a good mixture. He wanted to go farther than he did and he showed few hints at it in his first two albums. There was some good rock in Prince.

Spot on.

'Dirty Mind' wasn't a surprise for me. I didn't have expectations of Prince or any other artist as to what they should sound like. I wanted great music first and foremost . . . .

[Edited 7/31/10 15:42pm]

thebanishedone said:

the original poster is He (me )

I never said that Prince's album was the first to sing about subjects i

mention before.

Of course other artist cover the ground before him,

it's just Dirty Mind

album is planned to be a shocker.

Prince was a rising r'n 'b pop star and i doubt that everybody was thrilled

that he is going to release album that will get minim to non airplay at all.

as for Ernest,ok Ernest my english is not perfect,but i speak 3 languages,

so what other languages beside english you know to speak?

Sorry, but that's just childish . . . .

Yes the album is planned to be a shocker, I doubt that everyone is thrilled about what Prince or anyone else always does. The nature of life in this verse at this time . . .

But Prince obviously wasn't counting on spinning off five or six single . . . .

He simply wanted the attention and he got it.

thebanishedone said:

Year was 1980 and not too many artist had a chance to

release album with themes such as incest,oral sex,sex in daddy's car,threesome...

How did that album wasn't censored.

Did Prince and WB had problems for releasing that album.

Growing up in the late 80s I used to hear this a lot and actually believed it was true. Then I started listening to a lot of music from the late 60s & 70s and man that couldn't be further from the truth. Just listen (and pay close attention to) the lyrics of songs like "Walk on The Wild Side" (talking about transvestites giving head, etc..) many of the Rolling Stones songs, David Bowie, etc.. they were talking about a lot of stuff that even Prince never touched, and this was all in the early 70s. By 1980 I couldn't imagine Dirty Mind really being that shocking, he was 10 years late with androgyny, and probably even later on crude subject matter (hell just listen to some old blues music for tales of shooting cheating wives, songs about ass, pu**y and so on)

Hell the Sex Pistols had already broken up by '78 or '79 and were far more vulgar than Prince ever got, you also had artists like Wendy O Williams performing nude on stage during that time. Anybody who think Dirty Mind was so groundbreaking was most likely only listening to bubble gum music, or had their heads in the sand.. and even then Duran Duran had songs about porno with naked chicks in the video ("Girls on Film")

[Edited 7/31/10 16:23pm]

SUPRMAN said:

MikeyB71 said:

You have your definition, i have mine. Someone else will undoubtedly have theirs.

That's not how it works.

There is a finite set that is Prince's audience.

Definition is not subject to opinion.

So, when one says 'Prince's audience' one should be including those who self-identify as Prince's audience.

They need not necessarily have attended a concert or have bought an album to self-identify as a member of Prince's audience.

I disagree with what you posted for being 1) unaccredited and no source cited and

2) it generalizes regarding Prince fans, which as you can see, is a problem.

This was just a case of someone trying to argue from the perspective of something they had read, copied & pasted against the knowledge of someone who had witnessed and experienced it first hand.

I never said that Prince was the first artist in popular

music to introduce subjects such as incest,oral sex,threesome.

Dirty Mind is conceptual album.

It's about sex and sexual perversion.Whole album is about that

Dirty Mind-Prince wanna fuck his girl in his daddy's car

When U Were Mine -Prince never cared when he was sleeping with HIM and his girl

Do It All Night -

Head-oral sex and cumming on her wedding gum

Uptown-Prince have a sex with stranger

Sister-Prince fucking his sister

Party Up-sex

So every song without exception is about sex

with lot of graphic lyrics.That was raunchy for 1980

Artist before Prince used to sing about these subjects

in more refined way,lika a metaphore

Prince on the other hand is more In your face with tthese subjects.

Prince had hits in rnb world but he still didn't crossover

and realising Dirty Mind was a very risque move,it could have been the

end of Prince's career ,but it worked for him big time

[Edited 7/31/10 17:14pm]

thedance said:

Discussion about "Darling Nikki" and "pornography" at 1:15 & 2:30

LOL At 1:15 - How come when these people read Prince's lyrics they always have to sound so... white?

Mindflux said:

Efan said:

Yeah, whatever you do, you shouldn't ask a legitimate question about Prince's musical history here. How dare someone who isn't a Prince scholar post on the org? People might get into a discussion or something.

If, like the OP, you think that Prince was the first, or even only one of a few, who sang about those sort of sexual subjects, then perhaps you also need an education?

Its nothing to do with being a "Prince scholar" and more to do with having a general awareness of music history. If a question is asked that is based on falsehoods, is that a "legitimate question"?

You could have said that in the first place.

Any question asked implies the person asking is not aware of the correct answer in the first place. So yeah it was a legitimate question.

thebanishedone said:

I never said that Prince was the first artist in popular

music to introduce subjects such as incest,oral sex,threesome.

Dirty Mind is conceptual album.

It's about sex and sexual perversion.Whole album is about that

Dirty Mind-Prince wanna fuck his girl in his daddy's car

When U Were Mine -Prince never cared when he was sleeping with HIM and his girl

Do It All Night -

Head-oral sex and cumming on her wedding gum

Uptown-Prince have a sex with stranger

Sister-Prince fucking his sister

Party Up-sex

So every song without exception is about sex

with lot of graphic lyrics.That was raunchy for 1980

Artist before Prince used to sing about these subjects

in more refined way,lika a metaphore

Prince on the other hand is more In your face with tthese subjects.

Prince had hits in rnb world but he still didn't crossover

and realising Dirty Mind was a very risque move,it could have been the

end of Prince's career ,but it worked for him big time

[Edited 7/31/10 17:14pm]

Well this album has some risque lyrics that was TOO graphic for 1976:

[img:$uid]http://www.amiright.com/album-covers/images/album-Marvin-Gaye-I-Want-You.jpg[/img:$uid]

No R&B artist had ever talked about giving anyone head before then. Hell in '73, he ab-libbed "I ain't never cum this way before" in "Please Stay (Once You Go Away)" from Let's Get It On and "You Sure Love to Ball" was street slang for "you sure love to fuck."

So Marvin was one of those artists who was as graphic as it got in popular music in the '70s. I'm sure Prince took some notes though.

I think the shocking bit about this album wasn't songs that talked about giving head or fucking "in my daddy's car", but the one where he talked about incest. Then again I think that was covered too before, not as far as "urban music" goes. Plus he had other songs that drifted away from sex so it wasn't just one:

1.) When You Were Mine

2.) Uptown

3.) Gotta Broken Heart Again

4.) Partyup

So it was half raunchy and half what Prince had covered ground on anyways lol

[Edited 7/31/10 17:23pm]

SUPRMAN said:

MikeyB71 said:

You have your definition, i have mine. Someone else will undoubtedly have theirs.

That's not how it works.

There is a finite set that is Prince's audience.

Definition is not subject to opinion.

So, when one says 'Prince's audience' one should be including those who self-identify as Prince's audience.

They need not necessarily have attended a concert or have bought an album to self-identify as a member of Prince's audience.

I disagree with what you posted for being 1) unaccredited and no source cited and

2) it generalizes regarding Prince fans, which as you can see, is a problem.

berniejobs said:

thedance said:

Discussion about "Darling Nikki" and "pornography" at 1:15 & 2:30

LOL At 1:15 - How come when these people read Prince's lyrics they always have to sound so... white?

I think the better word is uptight because I know black folks who talk like that. I don't put color in what they do anymore.

it is pretty amazing when you think of it. Kudos for WBs for recognizing what they had at the time and having the balls to release this and let Prince be Prince. Even in the waning days of disco I could imagine there was a lot of pressure do just to another "I wanna be your lover" but it seems that WB was grooming Prince something more than just a disco queen from the start.

I've met a couple of older folk who hated Prince because of Dirty Mind, and never listened to him again.

BartVanHemelen said:

pepper7 said:

Lovely, this is the response you get when you ask a perfectly innocent question...

The OP claimed "Year was 1980 and not too many artist had a chance to release album with themes such as incest,oral sex,sex in daddy's car,threesome..." which is bullshit. If the OP knew about music history, then he wouldn't state such nonsense as fact.

Oh, I see he 'deserved' to be spoken to like this because in your eyes he was talking 'bullshit' and 'nonsense'.

Can't think why people don't post on here anymore..

I wonder if you have children, and if you speak to them like this if they get something wrong.

Do you tell them they are talking 'nonsense' and 'bullshit'?

[Edited 8/2/10 2:18am]

MikeyB71 said:

PDogz said:

Anyone that was familiar with Prince at that time ("Prince's audience") was neither surprised nor confused by the sexually explicit lyrics and/or themes. On the contrary: Those of us who were familiar with Prince (his audience) saw "Dirty Mind" as the closest representation of his stage act to date, over and beyond the two preceding LP's. Neither was the blending of Funk and Rock music "surprising" to any of Prince's audience.

Ok, but it surley would not have been that way for every single person who ever bought a Prince record.

You mention that the blending of funk and rock would not have been surprising to any of Prince's audience, i think that the departure that Dirty Mind was, might have been a surprise to some of his audience.

I'm lol'ing that you think, somehow, that For You and Prince had anything remotely close to what Dirty Mind contained. Dirty Mind, from the ground (mastering, production) up (lyrics, composition), was a complete departure from Prince and For You.

The only thing linking For You and Prince to Dirty Mind is that it came from the same artist. The music contained within is entirely different - if you didn't know who Prince was when you heard "I Wanna Be Your Lover" on the radio, you definitely didn't immediately recognize "Uptown" as being from him. The fact the albums were released over a 3 year span is even more astonishing.

Dirty Mind has long been described as Prince's way of delving into Punk Rock (this even came from the horse's mouth). Prince and For You were so far removed from Punk Rock it isn't even funny. Prince and For You were disco R&B. To say Prince fans, even "diehards" (if you can be a diehard after 3 years), weren't shocked by Dirty Mind as a followup to his previous 2 albums smacks of convenient memory.

BartVanHemelen said:

pepper7 said:

Lovely, this is the response you get when you ask a perfectly innocent question...

The OP claimed "Year was 1980 and not too many artist had a chance to release album with themes such as incest,oral sex,sex in daddy's car,threesome..." which is bullshit. If the OP knew about music history, then he wouldn't state such nonsense as fact.

No shit, sherlock, but he clearly isn't a music history scholar. So why the bitter betty bitchery? Chill the fuck out, Poindexter, and actually be helpful for once in your 10 year career of trolling the Prince community.

Remember that old meme on AMP when the people would ask haters "Why are you here?" repeatedly? You might not, but I do. There is a stark fucking difference between being critical of a musician's output over the years and being a dickhead behind a computer screen.

Efan said:

Mindflux said:

I think you need to do some music history research and then come back!

Yeah, whatever you do, you shouldn't ask a legitimate question about Prince's musical history here. How dare someone who isn't a Prince scholar post on the org? People might get into a discussion or something.

Bang on. There are some right some right snotty gits on here. It's not like you can google that question? Go on Ernest etc prove me wrong

MikeyB71 said:

PDogz said:

Anyone that was familiar with Prince at that time ("Prince's audience") was neither surprised nor confused by the sexually explicit lyrics and/or themes. On the contrary: Those of us who were familiar with Prince (his audience) saw "Dirty Mind" as the closest representation of his stage act to date, over and beyond the two preceding LP's. Neither was the blending of Funk and Rock music "surprising" to any of Prince's audience.

Ok, but it surley would not have been that way for every single person who ever bought a Prince record.

You mention that the blending of funk and rock would not have been surprising to any of Prince's audience, i think that the departure that Dirty Mind was, might have been a surprise to some of his audience.

Well if you were some Prince obsessive living in America and going to see him live it might not shock. But I only heard these albums after Purple Rain came out and it was a shock to me and so absolutely no similarity with the first two albums. They were as commercial as anything -DM was pure Prince

Efan said:

Mindflux said:

I think you need to do some music history research and then come back!

Yeah, whatever you do, you shouldn't ask a legitimate question about Prince's musical history here. How dare someone who isn't a Prince scholar post on the org? People might get into a discussion or something.

Well said! I 2 am sick of the 'Prince snobs' on this here org.

Spinlight said:

MikeyB71 said:

Ok, but it surley would not have been that way for every single person who ever bought a Prince record.

You mention that the blending of funk and rock would not have been surprising to any of Prince's audience, i think that the departure that Dirty Mind was, might have been a surprise to some of his audience.

I'm lol'ing that you think, somehow, that For You and Prince had anything remotely close to what Dirty Mind contained. Dirty Mind, from the ground (mastering, production) up (lyrics, composition), was a complete departure from Prince and For You.

The only thing linking For You and Prince to Dirty Mind is that it came from the same artist. The music contained within is entirely different - if you didn't know who Prince was when you heard "I Wanna Be Your Lover" on the radio, you definitely didn't immediately recognize "Uptown" as being from him. The fact the albums were released over a 3 year span is even more astonishing.

Dirty Mind has long been described as Prince's way of delving into Punk Rock (this even came from the horse's mouth). Prince and For You were so far removed from Punk Rock it isn't even funny. Prince and For You were disco R&B. To say Prince fans, even "diehards" (if you can be a diehard after 3 years), weren't shocked by Dirty Mind as a followup to his previous 2 albums smacks of convenient memory.

Exactly. Anyone claiming anything else is pretentious...also if they do feel this was some continuation or a true revelation of Prince to those who knew his work I think Prince would be highly disappointed coz it would mean he had probably massively faile with his intention.

jcurley said:

MikeyB71 said:

Ok, but it surley would not have been that way for every single person who ever bought a Prince record.

You mention that the blending of funk and rock would not have been surprising to any of Prince's audience, i think that the departure that Dirty Mind was, might have been a surprise to some of his audience.

Well if you were some Prince obsessive living in America and going to see him live it might not shock. But I only heard these albums after Purple Rain came out and it was a shock to me and so absolutely no similarity with the first two albums. They were as commercial as anything -DM was pure Prince

Good point.

When I was at school and first heard "If I was ur girlfriend" I loved it. Then a rumour started going round that the song was about child molesting and P was saying the seduction stuff 2 an underage girl..kinda "do ya wanna see some puppies esque"

The actual justification for this rumour having ANY credibility was the song sister from the dirty mind album..it was @ the time considered that if Prince could have relations with his own sister..then why not with a lil' girl

Is it really necessary 4 me 2 go out of the room
just because U wanna undress?
I mean, we don't have 2 make children 2 make love
And then, we don't have 2 make love 2 have an orgasm
Your body's what I'm all about
Can I see U?
I'll show U
Why not?
U can think it's because I'm your friend I'll do it 4 U
Of course I'll undress in front of U!
And when I'm naked, what shall I do?
How can I make U see that it's cool?
Can't U just trust me?
If I was your girlfriend U could
Oh, yeah, I think so
Listen, 4 U naked I would dance a ballet
Would that get U off?
Then tell me what will!
If I was your girlfriend, would U tell me?
Would U let me see U naked then?
Would U let me give U a bath?
Would U let me tickle U so hard U'd laugh and laugh
And would U, would U let me kiss U there
You know down there where it counts
I'll do it so good I swear I'll drink every ounce
And then I'll hold U tight and hold U long
And together we'll stare into silence
And we'll try 2 imagine what it looks like
Yeah, we'll try 2 imagine what, what silence looks like
Yeah, we'll try 2 imagine what silence looks like

I personally think he took a big career risk with Dirty Mind and it paid off.

He could have alienated the fanbase that he'd built up with For You and Prince. I'm sure he lost some fans, but he gained a wider audienced thanks to the hype, something which he then cashed in on further with Controversy.

I love Dirty Mind, it's just a flawless album for me

erik319 said:

I personally think he took a big career risk with Dirty Mind and it paid off.

He could have alienated the fanbase that he'd built up with For You and Prince. I'm sure he lost some fans, but he gained a wider audienced thanks to the hype, something which he then cashed in on further with Controversy.

I love Dirty Mind, it's just a flawless album for me

Same thing is happening 2 Rihanna now she's releasing songs like 'Rude boy'. Some of her fans who liked safe songs like pun de replay and umbrella have been alienated whilst others can't get enough. Rihanna's latest image and album is definately her 'dirty mind breakaway era'

Dirty mind for me is one of those rare albums that I could put on random and it didn't matter which song came on cos theres not a bad one on there...same could be said 4 Rainbow cildren which I think is a musical masterpiece

One thing is for sure: this kind of controversial, nasty, sexual records are only successful when the artist is still more or less unknown by the mainstream audience. Lady GaGa is another recent example.

On the other hand, these "X" albums are usually disasters when they are released by established/famous artists (Madonna's Erotica Rihanna's Rated R, etc...) Hell, I'm sure that many people, back in 1988, seeing the Lovesexy front cover, thought: "Ugh, another dirty album? Not again little boy..." result? A BOMB...

Spinlight said:

MikeyB71 said:

Ok, but it surley would not have been that way for every single person who ever bought a Prince record.

You mention that the blending of funk and rock would not have been surprising to any of Prince's audience, i think that the departure that Dirty Mind was, might have been a surprise to some of his audience.

I'm lol'ing that you think, somehow, that For You and Prince had anything remotely close to what Dirty Mind contained. Dirty Mind, from the ground (mastering, production) up (lyrics, composition), was a complete departure from Prince and For You.

The only thing linking For You and Prince to Dirty Mind is that it came from the same artist. The music contained within is entirely different - if you didn't know who Prince was when you heard "I Wanna Be Your Lover" on the radio, you definitely didn't immediately recognize "Uptown" as being from him. The fact the albums were released over a 3 year span is even more astonishing.

Dirty Mind has long been described as Prince's way of delving into Punk Rock (this even came from the horse's mouth). Prince and For You were so far removed from Punk Rock it isn't even funny. Prince and For You were disco R&B. To say Prince fans, even "diehards" (if you can be a diehard after 3 years), weren't shocked by Dirty Mind as a followup to his previous 2 albums smacks of convenient memory.

I remember that song from the 70s, started noticing prince when I saw his videos on MTV, became a die hard fan the day purple rain (the movie) was released. I somehow missed the purple rain tour but have been to every US tour since. The first time he played "I Wanna Be Your Lover" in concert (I think the lovesexy tour, but maybe it was a tour after that) I wondered - "why is he singing someone else's song". Even that long after he became my favorite artist I still hadn't made the connection that this 70s song I knew from the radio was his.

As for the OP's post, I can't believe some jumped all over him the way they have. He clearly didn't state Prince was the first, just that it wasn't common. I listened to a lot of music growing up and Dirty Mind certainly wasn't representative of mainstream music of the day.