Yes this is on topic...people here seem so disappointed in Prince because he can't write like he used to, but you guys have to understand the hard sad truths about getting older. The body and mind decays.

Just be glad he is still relatively healthy and sharing some music with us...most every artist/scientist etc does their best work in their 20s and 30s...Prince is no different...accept it and just try to enjoy the music. He is doing the best he can and still writing a few catchy melodies.

FunkiestOne said:

Yes this is on topic...people here seem so disappointed in Prince because he can't write like he used to, but you guys have to understand the hard sad truths about getting older. The body and mind decays.

Just be glad he is still relatively healthy and sharing some music with us...most every artist/scientist etc does their best work in their 20s and 30s...Prince is no different...accept it and just try to enjoy the music. He is doing the best he can and still writing a few catchy melodies.

Bullshit.

I actually havent read where anyone was disappointed that way, and even if I feel thats absolute bullshit because the new album is amazing , it is their opinion none the less, it doesnt talk for all of us.

FunkiestOne said:

Yes this is on topic...people here seem so disappointed in Prince because he can't write like he used to, but you guys have to understand the hard sad truths about getting older. The body and mind decays.

Just be glad he is still relatively healthy and sharing some music with us...most every artist/scientist etc does their best work in their 20s and 30s...Prince is no different...accept it and just try to enjoy the music. He is doing the best he can and still writing a few catchy melodies.

Well, I always hated Michael Jordan. Larry Bird, now there's a true star.

Not so.

Many of the greatest artists in rock/pop history, who have lasted just as long as Prince if not longer, have recorded late-era albums that stand strong alongside their best works.

For instance - Bob Dylan and David Bowie, just to name a couple.

Prince hasn't shown any progression or wisdom or additional knowledge from his age and experience. You could take a song from 20ten and it reads like something that might have been written 20 or 30 years ago. He has not progressed - at all - since the late 80s/early 90s. The technology has progressed, but artistically he has been repeating himself over and over and over again.

Some of the results are good - some excellent. But nothing compared to the best work he's done, that string from Dirty Mind thru Lovesexy that changed the face of pop/rock and R&B forever.

Using age is no excuse. Prince is putting out the same album over and over again at this point. I like that album, sure... but it's a long way from his best work.

There is something in that regards motivation, grounding, live performances and inspiration, and more obviously so with sport as the body deteriorates - i would suggest that with many areas of art people continue to improve as they grow older - painting, poetry, writing, and although I don't really know much about it but I think classical music people do continue to create and challenge. Maybe its the levels and and layers of what is created and how its perceived.

I really like the new album anyway - its just what we want or expect of our artists that doesn't always match with what's presented us. Prince is ever so vain and self critical, I don't think he'd release something he thought was dogger, and that he feels that this is the best he has to offer right now. that's my 3 penneth anyway!

Mikey Gee

nope but I would not pay to go see him play now either.

Hate?

I don't believe any Prince fans are "hating" Prince - if this is what you think.

FunkiestOne said:

Yes this is on topic...people here seem so disappointed in Prince because he can't write like he used to, but you guys have to understand the hard sad truths about getting older. The body and mind decays.

Just be glad he is still relatively healthy and sharing some music with us...most every artist/scientist etc does their best work in their 20s and 30s...Prince is no different...accept it and just try to enjoy the music. He is doing the best he can and still writing a few catchy melodies.

I see what you're trying to say, but I don't quite agree, and I think you are missing the point.

A basketball player's job is to score points and win games. That makes success very easy to determine - you can even measure in numbers how "good" someone is, compared to others.

But how do you measure music? How do you measure art?

You are of course entitled to the opinion that Prince doesn't make as good music as he used to. But I have three things to say about that:

1. That is still only your opinion, not an objective fact (but I suppose you know that).

2. Regardless of whether we think he succeeds or not in making music "like he used to do" - what if that's not even his intention? We don't really know. It would be kind of like critizing Michael Jordan for not dunking anymore while he was in fact playing baseball...

3. Personally, I think in arts it has less to do with the physics and more to do with the mind. As someone else also pointed out, most artists actually progress and develop, the older they get. Which of course means that the nature of their work tends to change, since they change. The problem is often that we don't change accordingly.

Hate WHAT?!

[Edited 7/13/10 13:53pm]

thedance said:

Hate?

I don't believe any Prince fans are "hating" Prince - if this is what you think.

Yes "hate' was not the best word...maybe should have been "Are you disappointed in..." instead.

RealMusician said:

FunkiestOne said:

Yes this is on topic...people here seem so disappointed in Prince because he can't write like he used to, but you guys have to understand the hard sad truths about getting older. The body and mind decays.

Just be glad he is still relatively healthy and sharing some music with us...most every artist/scientist etc does their best work in their 20s and 30s...Prince is no different...accept it and just try to enjoy the music. He is doing the best he can and still writing a few catchy melodies.

I see what you're trying to say, but I don't quite agree, and I think you are missing the point.

A basketball player's job is to score points and win games. That makes success very easy to determine - you can even measure in numbers how "good" someone is, compared to others.

But how do you measure music? How do you measure art?

You are of course entitled to the opinion that Prince doesn't make as good music as he used to. But I have three things to say about that:

1. That is still only your opinion, not an objective fact (but I suppose you know that).

2. Regardless of whether we think he succeeds or not in making music "like he used to do" - what if that's not even his intention? We don't really know. It would be kind of like critizing Michael Jordan for not dunking anymore while he was in fact playing baseball...

3. Personally, I think in arts it has less to do with the physics and more to do with the mind. As someone else also pointed out, most artists actually progress and develop, the older they get. Which of course means that the nature of their work tends to change, since they change. The problem is often that we don't change accordingly.

Of course appreciation of and judging the quality of art is 100% subjective but at the same time, there is a collective opinion and one can easily see that when reading prince.org.

Statements like "How can this be the same artist who wrote 'When Doves Cry"?

So this thread has nothing to do with my opinion....most Prince fans think his work now is nowhere as good as it was in the late 80s/early 90s and I'm just trying to explain the obvious as to why.

[Edited 7/10/10 16:04pm]

NoVideo said:

Not so.

Many of the greatest artists in rock/pop history, who have lasted just as long as Prince if not longer, have recorded late-era albums that stand strong alongside their best works.

For instance - Bob Dylan and David Bowie, just to name a couple.

Prince hasn't shown any progression or wisdom or additional knowledge from his age and experience. You could take a song from 20ten and it reads like something that might have been written 20 or 30 years ago. He has not progressed - at all - since the late 80s/early 90s. The technology has progressed, but artistically he has been repeating himself over and over and over again.

Some of the results are good - some excellent. But nothing compared to the best work he's done, that string from Dirty Mind thru Lovesexy that changed the face of pop/rock and R&B forever.

Using age is no excuse. Prince is putting out the same album over and over again at this point. I like that album, sure... but it's a long way from his best work.

You say that Prince hasn't shown any progression but has Bob Dylan progressed? I like his recent albums (starting with Time Out Of Mind) but are they much different from what he was doing in the '60s? I don't think so.

I also disagree with your opinion on David Bowie. Nothing he has done post Scary Monsters stands up to his earlier work.

I don't hate Michael Jordan because he can't dunk like he used to. I hate Michael Jordan because he is an asshole.

FunkiestOne said:

RealMusician said:

I see what you're trying to say, but I don't quite agree, and I think you are missing the point.

A basketball player's job is to score points and win games. That makes success very easy to determine - you can even measure in numbers how "good" someone is, compared to others.

But how do you measure music? How do you measure art?

You are of course entitled to the opinion that Prince doesn't make as good music as he used to. But I have three things to say about that:

1. That is still only your opinion, not an objective fact (but I suppose you know that).

2. Regardless of whether we think he succeeds or not in making music "like he used to do" - what if that's not even his intention? We don't really know. It would be kind of like critizing Michael Jordan for not dunking anymore while he was in fact playing baseball...

3. Personally, I think in arts it has less to do with the physics and more to do with the mind. As someone else also pointed out, most artists actually progress and develop, the older they get. Which of course means that the nature of their work tends to change, since they change. The problem is often that we don't change accordingly.

Of course appreciation of and judging the quality of art is 100% subjective but at the same time, there is a collective opinion and one can easily see that when reading prince.org.

Statements like "How can this be the same artist who wrote 'When Doves Cry"?

So this thread has nothing to do with my opinion....most Prince fans think his work now is nowhere as good as it was in the late 80s/early 90s and I'm just trying to explain the obvious as to why.

[Edited 7/10/10 16:04pm]

Well, my philosophy is that unless we know otherwise, we must always assume that every artist creates what he wants to create, and that every work of art is supposed to be exactly the way it is.

So Prince makes music that doesn't sound like the music he made 25 years ago. Well, I'm certain he wants it to sound exactly the way it does. I have no reason to assume that he actually meant to do something else but failed. (If he wasn't satisfied, he wouldn't release it, right?) Neither do I have any reason to believe he does no longer have the ability to do what he did 25 years ago, just because he chooses not to.

As you said, it's not about opinions. Personally, I enjoy 1999 more than Planet Earth - but I would also rather listen to Emancipation than the Prince album. In either case, I don't think of them as "this better than that" or "not as good as..." etcetera. As works of art, they are what they are. There's really no need to compare them for "quality" (whatever that is) - and certainly no need to let our own speculations about the artist's intentions be the basis for evaluation.

rialb said:

I don't hate Michael Jordan because he can't dunk like he used to. I hate Michael Jordan because he is an asshole.

And.....That's how most people who dislike Jordan feel about him. For real.

rialb said:

NoVideo said:

Not so.

Many of the greatest artists in rock/pop history, who have lasted just as long as Prince if not longer, have recorded late-era albums that stand strong alongside their best works.

For instance - Bob Dylan and David Bowie, just to name a couple.

Prince hasn't shown any progression or wisdom or additional knowledge from his age and experience. You could take a song from 20ten and it reads like something that might have been written 20 or 30 years ago. He has not progressed - at all - since the late 80s/early 90s. The technology has progressed, but artistically he has been repeating himself over and over and over again.

Some of the results are good - some excellent. But nothing compared to the best work he's done, that string from Dirty Mind thru Lovesexy that changed the face of pop/rock and R&B forever.

Using age is no excuse. Prince is putting out the same album over and over again at this point. I like that album, sure... but it's a long way from his best work.

You say that Prince hasn't shown any progression but has Bob Dylan progressed? I like his recent albums (starting with Time Out Of Mind) but are they much different from what he was doing in the '60s? I don't think so.

I also disagree with your opinion on David Bowie. Nothing he has done post Scary Monsters stands up to his earlier work.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Bowie. Outside, Heathen and Reality are all phenomenal records.

FunkiestOne said:

Yes this is on topic...people here seem so disappointed in Prince because he can't write like he used to, but you guys have to understand the hard sad truths about getting older. The body and mind decays.

Just be glad he is still relatively healthy and sharing some music with us...most every artist/scientist etc does their best work in their 20s and 30s...Prince is no different...accept it and just try to enjoy the music. He is doing the best he can and still writing a few catchy melodies.

Don't know what Michael Jordan has to do with Prince--I don't really find a comparison between basketball and music to be appropriate... And I am deliberately NOT reading threads about Prince's latest release until I get my hard copy next week, thank you!

NoVideo said:

Not so.

Many of the greatest artists in rock/pop history, who have lasted just as long as Prince if not longer, have recorded late-era albums that stand strong alongside their best works.

For instance - Bob Dylan and David Bowie, just to name a couple.

Both Bowie and Dylan went through decades of putting mediocre work.

Dylan put out one great album in the 70's, one in the 80's, and nothing spectacular 'til Love and Theft in '01.

I think Stevie Wonder's the greatest, but his work over the past 25 years is far from stellar.

Nobody puts out music when their older that's anywhere near as good as what they put out in their prime from their mid-20's to 30's.

Paris9748430 said:

NoVideo said:

Not so.

Many of the greatest artists in rock/pop history, who have lasted just as long as Prince if not longer, have recorded late-era albums that stand strong alongside their best works.

For instance - Bob Dylan and David Bowie, just to name a couple.

Both Bowie and Dylan went through decades of putting mediocre work.

Dylan put out one great album in the 70's, one in the 80's, and nothing spectacular 'til Love and Theft in '01.

decades? both went through dry spells in the 80s. Dylan's last 4 albums have been as acclaimed as anything in his career.

im mad you spelled Jordon instead of Jordan lol im just kidding

when i saw your title i read it as Micheal Jor-DON im like "who the fuck is micheal jordon?"

but i think he still has one more classic album up his sleeve (call me crazy )

i appreciate his music and im not overly critical about his music

i only care about the songs i like

if i dont like it .....then whateva ..on to the next one

it seems like people here are personally offended when prince makes a song/album they dont like

and im guilty of it too

but i learned to try to stop being overly dramatic over a damn pop album, because my black ass was no way involved in creative process

most of the time his music tickles my fancy so no complaints here

NoVideo said:

Paris9748430 said:

Both Bowie and Dylan went through decades of putting mediocre work.

Dylan put out one great album in the 70's, one in the 80's, and nothing spectacular 'til Love and Theft in '01.

decades? both went through dry spells in the 80s. Dylan's last 4 albums have been as acclaimed as anything in his career.

I didn't say anything about his last 4 albums???

I said he put out one in the 70's, and in the 80's, and his work picked up again with Love and Theft.

Paris9748430 said:

NoVideo said:

decades? both went through dry spells in the 80s. Dylan's last 4 albums have been as acclaimed as anything in his career.

I didn't say anything about his last 4 albums???

I said he put out one in the 70's, and in the 80's, and his work picked up again with Love and Theft.

All of Dylan's records since 1989's Oh Mercy - with perhaps one exception - have been very well received. Don't get me wrong, Dylan has made some bad albums - he's had a career of highs and lows. But he's always come back to a high. He has landmark albums scattered over his career. Same w/ Bowie, Springsteen, Neil Young.

I think Prince has great consistency... i keep waiting for something that will stand alongside albums like SOTT, Purple Rain - something that could be in the conversation for being his best work ever.

That doesn't mean I don't like his newer stuff - - - i do, i love some of it. it's just not the same kind of love i have for his best work.

[Edited 7/10/10 20:57pm]

NoVideo said:

Paris9748430 said:

I didn't say anything about his last 4 albums???

I said he put out one in the 70's, and in the 80's, and his work picked up again with Love and Theft.

All of Dylan's records since 1989's Oh Mercy - with perhaps one exception - have been very well received. Don't get me wrong, Dylan has made some bad albums - he's had a career of highs and lows. But he's always come back to a high. He has landmark albums scattered over his career. Same w/ Bowie, Springsteen, Neil Young.

I think Prince has great consistency... i keep waiting for something that will stand alongside albums like SOTT, Purple Rain - something that could be in the conversation for being his best work ever.

Totally agree--the best musical icons like Bowie, etc. always have had genius works scattered along with other not so genius works--the only difference is that their mediocre works range far above the forgettable crowd of singers and musicians that have existed over the decades... That is why we remember them and call them musical icons...not for their releases that are mediocre compared to their collective "genuis" works over the years... Look, people, even the best musicians are human and don't turn out the best works that they would like to... That doesn't take away from their stellar collection of music over the decades...and Prince is among them! So is Bowie, Aretha, Parliament, Marvin Gaye, James Brown, and on and on... That doesn't mean that these people didn't have hits and misses in their extraordinarily long careers...! Love the best! And, if you are a musical genuis, even your worst is better than the forgettable pack!

Nope, because he doesn't go out there and half assed dunk these days and act like it's all fabulous an shit.

Dude, this is the wrong forum for hating Michael Jordon. This is the forum for hating Prince.

You need to post this in GD.

TheVoid said:

Dude, this is the wrong forum for hating Michael Jordon. This is the forum for hating Prince.

You need to post this in GD.

Nothinbutjoy said:

Nope, because he doesn't go out there and half assed dunk these days and act like it's all fabulous an shit.

You must not have been watching Mike when he was playing for the Wizards.

Paris9748430 said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

Nope, because he doesn't go out there and half assed dunk these days and act like it's all fabulous an shit.

You must not have been watching Mike when he was playing for the Wizards.

Oh I saw that. He realized how lame it was and stopped it with the relative quickness.

He didn't drag it out for a decade.

Nothinbutjoy said:

Paris9748430 said:

You must not have been watching Mike when he was playing for the Wizards.

Oh I saw that. He realized how lame it was and stopped it with the relative quickness.

He didn't drag it out for a decade.

He only stopped because he was fired from the G.M. position.