Eye just hope he comes 2 his senses and leaves, please prince wake up! | |
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Not quite true. They believe he is the Son of God as he stated, just not GOD. They believe in his physical resurrection and they believe in salvation by grace.
They are Christians both by the "Christian" standards and by the true definition of Christianity which is outlined by Pink above. Because of their half-baked mistakes, we get ice cream, no cake; all lies, no truth; is it fair to Kill the YOUTH ~~ Party Up | |
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If Prince would come along, I would sing a song from the Austrian composer Franz Schubert (19. century) from his "German mass" (roman catholic mass). Of course he would have to answer with a spiritual song . P.S.: I sometimes discussed with jehova´s witnesses about religion during school days when they came long ringing the doorbell. I once even had a school teacher, who was a jehova´s witness, who taught chemistry. | |
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All the JWs I met were boring. I can't believe Prince is really one of them. | |
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You sound like that Chinese kid in 'Temple Of Doom'. | |
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Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians LOVE HARD. | |
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If Prince was a Mormon he could've jammed with the Osmonds. Jesus Christ Church of the Later Day Saints tends to have mostly young missionairies on their ministry, who serve three years, then return to 'regular' life.
They did impress me by their kindness and community work; they would help the elderly, the sick, build, mend fences, paint, help people move house, whatever. It was genuine, useful, practical help, not just door-to-door shit.
If Prince became a Scientologist like Doug E Fresh he could sing about Thetans and jam with Tom cruise and Travolta. | |
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Its his choice, in the same way people are christians, buddhists, muslims etc. He doesn't need to wake up from anything. Religion is a very broad spectrum of all different beliefs and if he finds comfort in that particular way of life then so be it. FUNKNROLL! "February 2014, wow". 'dre. | |
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That would be a matter of personal opinion. You spoke of the technicalities of being Christian originally. What I spoke of was how, by the definition of being Christian, Jehovah's Witnesses are still, technically Christian.
- Cannot deny [...] his physical resurrection Jehovah's Witnesses most definitely acknowledge the sacrifice and physical resurrection of Christ. I'm quite surprised at the view stated above that Jehovah's Witnesses do not acknowledge this, but - from the horses mouth itself, here is an article, published by them, in which you will find the views of the religion on the matter. It's entitled: "For a Fact the Lord was Raised Up!" Here it is http://www.watchtower.org...cle_02.htm
- Cannot deny [...] salvation by grace Jehovah's Witnesses do not deny the idea of salvation by grace. Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." [KJV] They indeed believe grace (often translated in such contexts as faith) is vital for salvation. However they do not use the Sola Fida concept as an excuse for not doing what is required of Christians. They also take into account that "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." James 2:17 [KJV]. Good actions alone, although commendable, would only be considered as 'salvation-worthy', if combined with faith and if such actions are not viewed as a 'means to an end', the end in this scenario being Salvation (I'm not bringing the Duty Ethics of Kant into the discussion, however the adage was appropriate to the discussion). If one were only performing good actions (or works) because they wish for an outcome (Salvation) to benefit them, then this would be futile, there was, so to say, a motive behind the action, as opposed to the action coming out of the good of ones heart. This is why "[...] by grace are ye saved through faith [...] not of works", works alone do not provide salvation. However, even though ''ye [are] saved through faith'', "[...] faith, if it hath not works, is dead [...]". Therefore, as action/works without grace are futile in this regard (there must not be an ulterior motive), the same applies to "faith [which] hath not works". Therefore Jehovah's Witnesses do not deny salvation by grace, but if they have the opportunity to perform 'good works', then they do. They believe in having a faith which is not dead, but alive; made alive by good actions and works - from the heart.
Therefore, by the above accounts, yet again, Jehovah's Witnesses are considered Christian. Regardless, 'deny[ing] the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace' are not defining standards by which to measure being Christian. They play no part in defining a Christian - technically.
If you were speaking of a particular type of Christian, then such statements would be acceptable, as they are obviously very personalised, however, we were speaking of being 'Christian'. Either way, Jehovah's Witnesses fit into both the technical definition of being a Christian, and the three-part 'in order to be Christian' definition which you provided.
I'm afraid I don't know which Bible Translation you prefer, if you wish me to use a different translation here, please let me know. Some people take offense to one not asking which translation is preferred prior to the quoting of a Bible passage, but unfortunately I will be unable to access a computer or the internet for a week or so (and if I asked, would run the risk of not being able to reply to your comments for a while). If you would really prefer the use of a different Bible Translation, please inform me and I shall accommodate to your preference either before this period (so long as I get the message beforehand, or afterwards).
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Yeah... all of his girlfriends and wives who want all of his money and fame. | |
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Jehovah's Witnesses provide much practical help too, but more often on a larger scale than a smaller one. They go out to places suffering due to war/poverty/natural disasters and provide huge quantities of aid. Not only to fellows of the same faith, but countless others too. They do it themselves rather than by donating money to charities to make sure that the relief gets to where it is needed. As we all know and are aware of, sadly huge quantities of charity money and aid lies in the hands of arms dealers, the military and guerilla fighters, which only fuels the conflicts which put people in despair in the first place.
I too am impressed by such good deeds by Mormons, but I've observed and experienced the same deeds from Jehovah's Witnesses also. However as you point out, those Mormon missionaries are young (usually aged between 19-21) and usually unattached (as regards marital status) which makes such missions easy. Jehovah's Witnesses of all ages, whether married or single, with children or childless perform a ministry. One has to take into consideration then, that not all are as able (be it with time, resources or illness) to provide the same more personalised help like the young Mormon Missionaries provide. However we shouldn't forget the practical (and Religious services) that Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and many other Religions do worldwide. (even if we haven't been a personal recipient!) For people to volunteer their own time and resources to do so(rather than being paid) is especially kind
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You said it... I didn't. Prince esta muerto...
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JW's are indeed followers of Christ. Lemme | |
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I love you, squirrel. | |
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What's up with JV's not believing there's a Hell? I know i've heard P talk of that place. Half of the new testament talks more about Hell than anything else- why JV's don't believe in it makes me question their perception and validity. [Edited 8/2/10 19:29pm] "Not to sound cosmic, but I've made plans for the next 3,000 years," he says. "Before, it was only three days at a time." | |
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in my opinion, Prince is not a Jehovah's Witness, he just 'pretends' to be.
so when he goes 'witnessing' from door to door, it's not like any of it really sticks.
his daily life is a more accurate testimony of his true beliefs, where his actions speak louder than words. this too shall pass | |
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THIS is witnessing; http://video.google.com/v...5145227311#
Simple talking to lost people from and eye to eye level at a gay pride event! Incredible. "Not to sound cosmic, but I've made plans for the next 3,000 years," he says. "Before, it was only three days at a time." | |
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Religion is a dead-end street. I hoped that he was more intelligent than all those lemmings who got stuck in this mud. | |
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i am not a JW, but my understanding is that it's not so much about "recruiting" as it is looking for opportunities to discuss the Bible and other spiritual events that relate to this world.
it might sound crazy in an age of internet porn and hollywood and soap operas treating infidelity as if it is the latest fashion,
but there really are people out there who strive to be in this world, but not of it. many have opened their minds to the point that they have closed. | |
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THANKS ♥ Feeling Purple Rain...Don't hold on 2 the pain, hold on 2 the memories ♥
My heart will go on...Celine Dion I will always love you...Whitney Houston | |
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♥ Feeling Purple Rain...Don't hold on 2 the pain, hold on 2 the memories ♥
My heart will go on...Celine Dion I will always love you...Whitney Houston | |
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They acknowledge the term 'Hell', however Jehovah's Witnesses base everything on the original meaning and context of the words. Obviously, time to time, during translations (for the Bible or any secular text for that matter) there are words which appear, that have no equivalent in a different language. The Religion looks into the original language and the oldest scrolls, to find out the meaning of each word, rather than just modernising the language of an existing version.
For the words translated 'Hell', they leave the original term used in the text (but Anglicised obviously for pronunciation) in. Using the term 'Hell' as a blanket term for each of the words can lead to confusion.
Take for instance, the King James Version of the Bible where 'Hell' is used as a blanket term. The Scripture is speaking of Jesus. "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Acts 2: 31 [KJV]
The translation says that Jesus' soul was 'not left in hell'. Such a term would imply that Jesus was in hell, but not permanently. Some have no such issue with this, reasoning that Jesus was atoning for sins in hell also. However, regardless of this, one needs to see the original word which was translated 'hell' in this instance.
In this particular instance the original word used was 'Hades' (ᾅδης). This is a Greek word, and the equivalent to the Hebrew word 'Sheol' (שׁאול). These two words are usually translated as 'Hell', in English Bibles. 'Sheol' is a term which when related properly to the English Language, would be rendered to the effect of 'resting place' or similar terms. One reference describes it as a place which demands of all. Plainly it refers to the state of being dead - the grave. 'Hades', is the equivalent Greek term. Peter uses the Greek 'Hades', in Acts 2: 27, when quoting Psalms 16:10, which uses 'Sheol', clearly they execute the same meaning. The terms have a distinctive meaning. Set apart from an underworld of fire, brimstone and eternal torment, the terms hint nothing of the like.
Jehovah's Witnesses therefore don't translate the terms 'Sheol' or 'Hades' to Hell, a word which brings to mind eternal fiery torment. (nb. This is different to the word used for an individual grave or burial place, 'Qe'ver' (לוויה)
Already, we can see one example of a term (in two languages), not at all associated with 'Hell', as we know it, which has been commonly translated as Hell. However there are two other terms translated into English as 'Hell'.
Tartarus (Τάρταρος) is another phrase translated as Hell. Displayed below in the King James Version as 'Hell'.
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" 2 Peter 2: 4 [KJV] This is a clearly different word to Hades; the grave, and clearly has a significantly different meaning. This is a place where 'the angels that sin' await judgement. It has clear parallels with the Abyss spoken of in Revelation/Apocalypse. Again, it is a term, which has no association with a place of eternal fiery torment for humans.
The final term, often translated as Hell, the term which leads to the descriptions of a fiery place of torment, is Gehenna or Gehinnom (Heb: גהנם),(Gr: γέεννα). Gehenna/Gehinnom means "Valley of Hinnom". The Valley of Hinnom was a literal place. The site is spoken of in the Bible on numerous occasions. In the Old Testament, as a place where apostates and Molech worshippers sacrificed their children alive, by sending them into a burning fire there. One such occasion is below.
"And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart." Jeremiah 7: 31. [KJV] God here is clearly distraught by the act of passing children through the fire. (I certainly would not wish to be burnt alive!)
We can already see such connotations with modern day teachings of Hellfire with this alone, however, in your original point you focus on the New Testament.
So I'll focus on usage of Gehenna in the New Testament. By New Testament times (so to say), the Valley Of Hinnom was no longer used for Pagan ritual sacrifices. It had become a dumping ground, or incinerator (so to speak) for in the inhabitants of Jerusalem to dispose of their rubbish to. Sulfur/Sulphur (sometimes referred to as 'Brimstone', was added to the fires running in the dump, the fires, aided by sulphur would destroy the refuse (Remember, as displayed in the Old Testament; the Israelites were meticulous with health and cleanliness, they wouldn't just leave rubbish to rot outside their city).
However, some criminals upon being executed would have their bodies thrown into the Valley of Hinnom; being considered unworthy of a decent burial. The bodies thrown would either end up in the sulphur and be consumed by fire, or they would end up in a place untouched by the sulphur in the dump, hygiene would not permit one to wade into the dump and move the body into the sulphur, so it'd be left in whatever part of the dump it had landed in. If not consumed by fire, the body would naturally rot and be consumed by maggots and worms! This description has clear parallels with the hellfire doctrine.
But this was not a place where sinful humans were thrown in to burn, alive, it was the final end/destruction. Isrealite folklore in addition to this, made Gehenna seem as far from Heavenly perfection and being in God's favour as possible. Jesus and the Early Christians knew exactly how powerful such associations were.
Eg. "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." Matthew 5: 29 [KJV]. Lit: If you have something (eg. issue, temptation) causing you to sin, totally get rid of it (go cold turkey) for its better to get rid of this problem than to be totally out of Gods favour. To be viewed as a detestable thing or refuse to God.
Additionally, 'Gehenna' is used in Revelation 20: 14,
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
literally, death. Here the word used was Hades, the grave, or state of being dead.
Here, Gehenna.
Gehenna clearly is the final end. The final end for things detestable to God. Death here is cast into Gehnna. The state of being dead is cast into Gehenna. Receiving an absolute and second death. Death, and the grave (or state of being dead) are ended.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in the Doctrine of Hell because they look into the original meanings, in the original text, rather than the English translations. The reasons they don't believe in Hell are because the words translated as 'Hell' in most Bible Translations have significantly different meanings to eachother, none of which support a fiery place of eternal torment for sinners.
The questioning of validity and perception you have would delight Jehovah's Witnesses actually. They encourage people to question Christian Doctrine, and look to the Bible for the answers. They're quite adamant on not having 'blind faith'. I could give you the above 'low-down' on what they believe here, but in the future, if you have any questions on their beliefs or views on various doctrines, it's probably best to ask one next time they're at your door!
I do know the above from my understanding of their faith and Biblical Canon and language, hopefully it has been sufficient (perhaps more than enough to read!) but I've read small explanations such as 'it doesn't say hell anywhere in the Bible', online which really aren't sufficient - anyone can find 'hell' in most Bibles, as did you yourself, so I thought I'd explain in more depth, but if you want to know why someone believes something, ask them If they're reasonable I'm sure they'd explain! | |
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Religion controls the world, as we know. Some say religion alone is the actual root of all evil, which i can understand that saying sometimes, especially with all the hate wars and genocides etc goings on. I personally think the problem with religion, is people get too obsessed with all these different idealism beliefs, when not one single person on this earth knows what the real truth is, absolutely nobody.
But Prince, hes always been religious, his reference of God has been there since the beginning of his career, hes just has drop the sex bits. And JW isnt that much different from christianity anyway.
FUNKNROLL! "February 2014, wow". 'dre. | |
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Exactly. You' re a wise man. | |
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Thank u. I'm not a man, well the last time i checked FUNKNROLL! "February 2014, wow". 'dre. | |
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It would be interesting to have a conversation with Prince about this whole JW experience. Considering I also studied with them, I'd be interested to hear his viewpoint about some obvious flaws, inconsistencies, and downright lies in their teachings. But then again, I think the Bible is a man-made book (as well as other "holy" books like the Qur'an)...so I just abhor religion in general.
Oh, and hell naw he ain't going around preaching door-to-door. He "witnesses" in his music, interviews, and to his band. That's more than enough time to report on his time sheet "For those who know the number and don't call...Fuck all y'all" | |
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