ButterscotchPimp said:

I guess u know more than Miles Davis & George Clinton on Funk.

If there was a Funk Hall of Fame it would have to be in either Detroit or Cincinatti. Prince would not be in the first class, but maybe a second class. The First Class might include James, Sly, George, Bootsy and Rick, i would even put Larry in due to inovation on the Bass.

skywalker said:

Spot on SkyWalker ... My sentiments exactly ... Before I listened to P's music I was heavy into East Coast New York Hip Hop. Any music I heard before that was my dad's music or my step-father's music. My music is Prince's music. I knew what funk was from Sly and Bootsy and of course Mr. James Brown but when Dirty Mind and Controversy entered my scope "years" later Prince's music not just funk but Purple Funk as we call it now.

chopingard said:

I agree.
Among all the things his music has done, if anything the drum machine patterns are his singular unique contribution that is his and his alone.
The funk he produced with the linn cannot be "directly" attributed to any other source.

I would also include his funky new wave synth-guitar-chicken-scratch work as a strong contribution to the funk vocabulary.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Yeah but everyone called you out on it and you are dead wrong.

You have a myopic view and your own bubble of preconceptions as to what "Funk" is.

As I recall your "buddies" said it wasn't funk and hence its true.

It was a moronic thread akin to tring to prove pickles were or were not delicious.

Erm, for the most part, The Rainbow Children is an old school, raw funk record. And yes, throughout his career I think he's done a fine job of bringing the funk. But he's also worked really hard at keeping the funk of others alive. However, I totally agree with whoever said Prince has just been a major contributor to music. Specifically, modern pop music. Let's say, post disco.

And pickles are most definitely delicious. Mmmhmm.

DIRTY MIND

Absolutely, he was a major contributor to funk music. In some ways, he was part of the end of the line for the evolution of funk.

The funky drummer/horny hornz James Brown style of funk evolved with Sly & Larry, adding slap bass. George Clinton introduced synths while Bootsy and acts like the Ohio Players deepened the bottom end. Prince, Rick, The Time, and Cameo were sort of the last wave of old school funkateers, incorporating more synths and drum machines. That "Minneapolis Sound" evolved throughout the 80s into New Jack Swing and hip-hop, which effectively killed funk's own evolution. By the time acts like Digital Underground tried to bring the funk, they were just re-hashing what Parliament had done (through the use of samples). Funk artists now simply retread the masters, whether they're trying for a JB or Sly style or Prince and Rick's sound. Nothing new has really been contributed to funk since the era of early Prince, Rick, Lakeside, etc. Once those artists started being sampled and became "retro," funk as it's own genre stopped growing and evolving.

renfield said:

I agree.
The same can be said about RnB, its a stale retro world now without any innovation but rather just taking what has come before it and beating to the ground. Some of it well produced and performed of course, but still just taking something old and polishing it.

By the same token Prince has also been just dragging out his old shtick and polishing it too.

Elements of "The Truth" seemed like fresh a new direction he was taking his sound, but quickly abandoned. Thankfully it resurfaced with "Dreamer" & " Colonized Mind" Hopefully we will hear more of that sound instead of polished oldie funk like MPLSOUND
[Edited 5/21/10 13:46pm]

Handcuffs said:

Um, i'm going to not go out on a limb and say without a shadow of a DOUBT that i know more about funk than Miles Davis.


Yeah, I said it.

violetblues said:

That's cute how revisionist that is.
As a matter of fact, be a lamb and re-post the original so you can "prove how right you are".


I'll wait.

ButterscotchPimp said:

BP it is all a matter of "opinion" when you think of it. Not one person on here who may be a musician or non-musician can define or explain "who" is funk and who is not.
Only so said artist who were the god-fathers and god-mothers of funk can TRULY say so.

... one would think ...

PurpleLove7 said:

Or you can realize, like most real music fans that FUNK is a definitive genre and that Miles Davis or Prince have nothing to do with it.

And that there is a difference between having some "funky songs" and being FUNK.

(totally knows this is going to go sideways)
(again)

ButterscotchPimp said:

That's true ... This goes along the lines of Prince creating his own genre. It's like walkin' into a "wreca stow" and seeing the genres. I often wonder why Prince is in either Pop or Rock and sometimes in R&B. He of course should have his "own" section but, BP makes sense p.org.



Prince is "not" a Funk Artist (a contributor, yes) ...

PurpleLove7 said:

I COMPLETELY AGREE with the take that Prince has created his own genre. He takes pop, rock, jazz and yes some funk and combines them in a way that is uniquely him and it is GENIUS.

HOWEVER, I (and most FUNK artists) wouldn't label him a "contributor".

So, my point being.

Prince is FUNKY.
Prince is NOT FUNK.

(waits for the inevitable fallout)

ButterscotchPimp said:

course he is. think about it. what are all the different meanings of the word Funk - how they are all aptly descriptive of not only his music - but who he really is.

:lightbulb:

go listen to Sexy Dancer, DMSR, Erotic City, Irresistible B and come back and retract your thread

robinhood said:

NO he is NOT. Have given it much thought.
People who do not understand the genre of FUNK or the definition of word LOVE to throw it around in regards to Prince.

Prince IS NOT FUNK. NEVER WAS. NEVER WILL BE.
That is not to say that he isn't "funky".
[Edited 5/22/10 7:06am]

datdude said:

Who me? Or the OP?
Because none of those songs are remotely in the neighborhood of funk, so your point would be.....

ButterscotchPimp said:

I'm gonna agree with you. Your best artists can't be put in one box. The same goes for Stevie Wonder. He's not FUNK as you put it, but he's funky. Only you say it like it's a badge of honor-- like it's some kind of prestigious club or some shit.

Personally, I don't have as much respect for an artist I can point at and neatly put a label on, much less one that willingly accepts that label. Rick James, Clinton, and them never really grew out of that funk shtick. Sure, they mastered that style but they were in too deep and couldn't get out. It's cool for a while but it gets old. Prince and Stevie instinctively knew that. They also knew that to reach a wider audience you have to experiment in different styles-- greater risk, greater reward. Only now after doing a little of everything are they revisiting old styles and getting a little stale.

PAISLEYREFUGEE said:

Eh, I think the way the question is worded is somewhat loaded. The artists you listed were from a different era than Prince, with the possible exception of George Clinton. If you are talking about '70s funk (live drums, lots of horns) Prince was not a major contributor. However, looking at how funk evolved in the '80s, specifically with keyboards largely replacing horns, I think Prince was arguably the major contributor. Yes, you had folks like Stevie Wonder, Junie Morrison and Bernie Worrell mixing keyboards with funk in a major way but they did it a bit differently than Prince. Their major innovation was probably using keyboards to replace the bass guitar while Prince used them to replace horns. There may well be some crossover between what those three guys did and what Prince did but he probably took things to a different place than they did.

It's kind of tough to compare because by the '80s funk had changed a great deal. The type of funk that was popular in the late '60s and into the '70s was kind of dead by the '80s. '80s funk was a lot cleaner and keyboard dominated which is maybe why James, Sly and George struggled in the '80s. (Yeah, I know "Atomic Dog" was a huge hit but otherwise George had a pretty rough decade)

skywalker said:

Co-sign. If it wasn´t for Prince, I wouldn´t own all my Ohio Players and Sly Stone records.Prince and HipHop music opened my mind to dig deeper and discover the music of the 70s, like Funkadelic.
Before that, I only listened to music of my generation (HipHop, SOS Band, Midnight Star,and 1980s Cameo material.
But not only did he open people´s minds and ears to the Funk, he also added his own unique sounds and ideas to it and is still keeping the Funk alive, though unfortunately in a more retro, nostalgic revue style these days.

Even George Clinton and the late Rick James called him the last keeper of the Funk, so nuff said. They should know best.

Interesting posts and great responses.

His brand of minimalist funk that was introduced with "Kiss" influenced Pharrell, Timbaland and a whole generation of pop/hip hop producers with some of their studio work.

I think of his body of work as a testament to his devotion to the genre, but in true Prince style, he refused to be defined by it. As so many have mentioned, his influences are peppered throughout his catalogue and what makes his music so captivating is that songs like Erotic City blend so effortlessly with more pop offerings he created. You will here a little James Brown, a little Sly and right after, you're just as likely to hear something Beatlesque.

Prince music=JB+Hendrix+Santana+Beatles+many others

In my opinion, Rick James had begun to lay a foundation, but didn't have the artistic vision Prince had to push the envelope further.

What comes next is anyones guess but the last thing I will say is he is far more "funky" live than he ever is on his records.
[Edited 5/22/10 4:53am]
[Edited 5/22/10 5:03am]

If Prince wanted to make the funkiest album ever I believe he is capable of it but Prince has got his own GENERE and that includes elements of funk,jazz, rock,soul,minneapolis sound,blues,p-funk etc.

He has contributed to funk & I hope he comes out with a diverse double or triple album of nothing but the Funk.

He has influence alot of musicians producers etc & his influence will continue.

whodknee said:

It is a badge of honor to those in the genre.
It's akin to being a jazz artist. There are TONS of artists that casually get that label thrown on them, when the REAL JAZZ ARTISTS have studied, worked with peers in the field, paid their dues and then rise up to become pillars in the community.

Funk is also like that. The real funk heads love Prince. Sure he dabbles. He's aware of the funk. He can very cleverly drop elements of the funk into his music, and they respect him for that. But he is NOT a funk artist.

Arguably, neither was Rick James. Rick, like Prince took funk elements and combined them with punk and r&b to create his own hybrid. Although i'd still like to see that quote where he said that Prince was a "keeper of the funk."

Ditto with George. Although i'd wager dollars to donuts that when George said it, Prince was signing his paychecks. What else was he going to say? No one in George's camp believes that. Neither does George.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Rick said that during an interview he gave a few days before he died.

KoolEaze said:

So i'm just supposed to take your word for it.

Link, perhaps?

ButterscotchPimp said:

What exactly is funk and who are some funk artists?

crazydoctor said:

Ugh. Look it up. Or if someone wants to re-post the previous time we did this fine. I'm already getting bored with this, because we did this already.