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Reply #60 posted 05/09/10 3:53pm

MaddMaxx

avatar

Live, nobody can touch him. Nobody. And it doesn't matter if he's playing his stuff or other people's tracks.

In the studio.....well, let's hope for better.
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Reply #61 posted 05/09/10 4:03pm

aarontj

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



"he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life" really? who are you? GOD? Lol!

The Top 10 or Radio play don't mean shit to legacy, ask Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Lou Red, Iggy Pop, Hendrix etc. but is no surprise that the question come from a member with a MJ avatar.
"I have so much love for Prince. But why don't they look at me that way"- MJ
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Reply #62 posted 05/09/10 5:17pm

Timmy84

No I don't think he's diminishing it.
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Reply #63 posted 05/09/10 9:48pm

shipoffools

avatar

Prince is first and foremost a musician. I think his motto is to get as much stuff out there as possible, even if it's crap. That's why he releases so much; he wants to please his fans, and he literally 'lives and breathes' music.

Another thing is that I think Prince doesn't know the good songs from the bad songs. That's the only way I can rationalize him putting out so much filler along with the gems. He also doesn't like to listen to other people's opinions on his music (reason why he split with the record co), which is why he doesn't have an 'adviser' who tells him what songs to release and which to leave off.

I'm not complaining, though, because a weak Prince song is miles better than almost anything on the radio nowadays. cool
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Reply #64 posted 05/09/10 10:04pm

babynoz

Prince has never talked much about his legacy, giving me the impression that he just does his thing without giving it much thought one way or the other.

In spite of that it seems that his legacy will be enhanced and preserved even if he doesn't do it himself.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #65 posted 05/09/10 10:42pm

wasitgood4u

avatar

IstenSzek said:

diminishing.

but not because he releases 'too much' or of 'dubious quality'.

the main problem is that most of his 'prime' material is not in
the stores in remastered, top notch quality.

for a control freak like prince who is so obsessed with all his
music it seems bizarre that he's one of the few artists that do
not release remasters. sure it's a prince/wb thing but it could
have been worked out by now.

second is all his subsequent releases are either out of print,
or simply not available anymore, anywhere.

all those loose ends, due to npgmc, 3121, lotusflower. so many
songs that don't belong anywhere. so many projects that were
never given any outing outside a very small audience.

his catalogue and his achievements are now very muddled and so
incredibly hard to list chronologically for anyone but the most
hardcore fans.

having an online presence, a decent site that would stay up for
more than just a year but be the one central starting point to
his music, with all his albums available and all his songs that
he released occasionally for soundtracks, side projects or as
one off singles through his npgmc etc.

everything complete with lyrics, liner notes, a bit of history
and some photo's and video's.

having all of that in one place would get more media attention
than any other new project every could. it would spark people's
interest, even cassual fans, to have a look and discover all of
the things they missed out on or didn't care to check out when
they were first released.

the way things stand now, where does a new 'fan' begin when he
or she wants to collect as much of his music as possible?

it seems almost impossible to even figure out what he released
since 1996 and if you manage, you won't be able to buy most of
it in an official way.

his legacy was and is his music. he should care more about it,
imo, and gather everything in one place. everything.


It's funny though because this is how it was for James Brown and Hendrix in the eighties. I was almost impossible (at least in Australia) to get hold of original albums and the hits compilations hadn't begun to be released. Even now, I think it's hard to get all the original titles (could be wrong...) but the regular compilations satisfy the market.
"We've never been able to pull off a funk number"

"That's becuase we're soulless auttomatons"
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Reply #66 posted 05/09/10 10:49pm

autumndove

His talent and dreams came first.
Hopefully he has done both now it is left for us to share our opinions on what we like and if it works out then every one is happy if not he had his dream and we were lucky enough to go on a wonderful journey ...dreams last forever when we keep them as memories .....
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Reply #67 posted 05/10/10 2:44am

TheVoid

aarontj said:

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



"he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life" really? who are you? GOD? Lol!

The Top 10 or Radio play don't mean shit to legacy, ask Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Lou Red, Iggy Pop, Hendrix etc. but is no surprise that the question come from a member with a MJ avatar.


Are you having a momentary lasp of reason or is there a corncob in your ass?


He can't get a top 10 hit to save his life isn't something I persume or bestow upon him--nor something I wish. Just check the charts. When was the last time he had a top 10 single?

You need not drag your fammy ass into the conversation not having properly read posts you respond to, lest you just end up looking like a dolt. But then again having a washed up Patrick Nagelesche avatar ala the spandex laden 80s, I would be asking too much.

.
[Edited 5/10/10 2:47am]
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Reply #68 posted 05/10/10 2:58am

Spinlight

avatar

TheVoid said:

aarontj said:




"he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life" really? who are you? GOD? Lol!

The Top 10 or Radio play don't mean shit to legacy, ask Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Lou Red, Iggy Pop, Hendrix etc. but is no surprise that the question come from a member with a MJ avatar.


Are you having a momentary lasp of reason or is there a corncob in your ass?


He can't get a top 10 hit to save his life isn't something I persume or bestow upon him--nor something I wish. Just check the charts. When was the last time he had a top 10 single?

You need not drag your fammy ass into the conversation not having properly read posts you respond to, lest you just end up looking like a dolt. But then again having a washed up Patrick Nagelesche avatar ala the spandex laden 80s, I would be asking too much.

.
[Edited 5/10/10 2:47am]


My favorite part was, "Who are you? GOD?"

Cuz Prince is all about acting in accordance with any god.

This is why the motherfucker robs his fans blind. Literally blind, as they funnel cash to him via his cheapskate websites, lmao. "But 'least I got a tshirt!!!" LMAO!
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Reply #69 posted 05/10/10 3:19am

TheVoid

Spinlight said:

TheVoid said:



Are you having a momentary lasp of reason or is there a corncob in your ass?


He can't get a top 10 hit to save his life isn't something I persume or bestow upon him--nor something I wish. Just check the charts. When was the last time he had a top 10 single?

You need not drag your fammy ass into the conversation not having properly read posts you respond to, lest you just end up looking like a dolt. But then again having a washed up Patrick Nagelesche avatar ala the spandex laden 80s, I would be asking too much.

.
[Edited 5/10/10 2:47am]


My favorite part was, "Who are you? GOD?"

Cuz Prince is all about acting in accordance with any god.

This is why the motherfucker robs his fans blind. Literally blind, as they funnel cash to him via his cheapskate websites, lmao. "But 'least I got a tshirt!!!" LMAO!


lol

It's hard to beat, "Who are you? God?" as a comeback post though. lol

Cause then you realize the person posting isn't exactly working in the realm of logic (at least in the context of my original post). lol

I love your avvie. eek
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Reply #70 posted 05/10/10 8:52am

coltrane3

His career is too long, and his body of work too vast for it to really be diminished that much.

First, it's only a matter of opinion that the latter part of his career (at least thus far), doesn't match the quality of the earlier parts of his career. I am one fan who holds that opinion, and I know there are others, but I also know that there are many fans who would disagree, some vehemently.

But, I'm fairly certain that there are at least some critics, some rock historians, some biographers, who will note a tailing off of quality. Moreover, there will be a lot writers, even ignoring a quality argument, who will be aware that Prince, like many artists, became less generally popular, less album sales, less major media coverage, less buzz among the general population, as time went on. But, that's the case for most artists.

Yet, I don't think any of that will matter. Prince's peak years were just to big, too unique, too iconic to be diminished by any perceived downfall in quality or any actual decrease in general popularity.

Think of all of the music biographies you've read, or the Behind The Music-type shows you've seen. The focus tends to be on the artists peak, and what they meant to music world at their peak. I mean, many would argue that the Rolling Stones haven't matched their peak-year output in quite a while. But, I doubt that will stop them from being rock god legends once it's all over.

There will probably be some writer(s) who offers a really detailed, indepth account of Prince's career and really takes great pains to analyze his whole career and its ups and downs and how certain decisions or behavior affected his legacy.

But, the standard remembering-Prince article on CNN or in Newsweek, the daily newspaper, or the 5 minute segment on cable TV programs, will undoubtedly focus on his days of superstardom (with Purple Rain probably being the zenith) and his other critically strong (even if lesser selling than PR) work, like Sign O'the Times. And, I'm sure the name-change, symbol, "Slave" incidents will be remembered as "Prince just being Prince," and will be presented as Prince being an artist who fiercely valued his independence. In these mainstream media accounts, the latter years will be but a footnote.
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Reply #71 posted 05/10/10 10:16am

Marrk

avatar

aarontj said:

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



"he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life" really? who are you? GOD? Lol!

The Top 10 or Radio play don't mean shit to legacy, ask Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Lou Red, Iggy Pop, Hendrix etc. but is no surprise that the question come from a member with a MJ avatar.


You mean "an MJ avatar" by any chance? and the question came from me, not "come from", that isn't English. Oh, and it's Lou Reed not Red.

Btw, In the first instance the fact i have an MJ avatar isn't really of any relevance at all, i have a vast music collection which includes music by some of those artists you mentioned. The question set was not an attack on Prince, nor was it a frivolous question either, as we wouldn't be on page three. Read it again and understand it without responding like a dick just cause of my avvie.

Cheers.
[Edited 5/10/10 10:29am]
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Reply #72 posted 05/10/10 11:14am

Bejaye

I vote diminish disbelief
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Reply #73 posted 05/10/10 12:26pm

Marrk

avatar

wasitgood4u said:

IstenSzek said:

diminishing.

but not because he releases 'too much' or of 'dubious quality'.

the main problem is that most of his 'prime' material is not in
the stores in remastered, top notch quality.

for a control freak like prince who is so obsessed with all his
music it seems bizarre that he's one of the few artists that do
not release remasters. sure it's a prince/wb thing but it could
have been worked out by now.

second is all his subsequent releases are either out of print,
or simply not available anymore, anywhere.

all those loose ends, due to npgmc, 3121, lotusflower. so many
songs that don't belong anywhere. so many projects that were
never given any outing outside a very small audience.

his catalogue and his achievements are now very muddled and so
incredibly hard to list chronologically for anyone but the most
hardcore fans.

having an online presence, a decent site that would stay up for
more than just a year but be the one central starting point to
his music, with all his albums available and all his songs that
he released occasionally for soundtracks, side projects or as
one off singles through his npgmc etc.

everything complete with lyrics, liner notes, a bit of history
and some photo's and video's.

having all of that in one place would get more media attention
than any other new project every could. it would spark people's
interest, even cassual fans, to have a look and discover all of
the things they missed out on or didn't care to check out when
they were first released.

the way things stand now, where does a new 'fan' begin when he
or she wants to collect as much of his music as possible?

it seems almost impossible to even figure out what he released
since 1996 and if you manage, you won't be able to buy most of
it in an official way.

his legacy was and is his music. he should care more about it,
imo, and gather everything in one place. everything.


It's funny though because this is how it was for James Brown and Hendrix in the eighties. I was almost impossible (at least in Australia) to get hold of original albums and the hits compilations hadn't begun to be released. Even now, I think it's hard to get all the original titles (could be wrong...) but the regular compilations satisfy the market.


I went in my local HMV today and they had just two Prince albums in his section. TWO! 'Purple Rain' and 'Ultimate'. Sad state of affairs really. neutral
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Reply #74 posted 05/10/10 12:39pm

Deadflow3r

avatar

So much of his stuff ages better than anything else made in the 80's and 90's. Even if he were to become a drunk and puke and piss on stage, he would still be remembered as an star that was both a great musician and a great performer. There are just not many of those, period.
There came a time when the risk of remaining tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. Anais Nin.
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Reply #75 posted 05/10/10 12:39pm

NelsonR

Part of Prince's legacy entails his ability to keep his fans questioning "where he is" while remaining ever enticing and intriguing 2 most

razz

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Reply #76 posted 05/10/10 1:09pm

danamarshall

Prince did an amazing job rising above the whole crazy diva artist thing for a long time. Atleast, it looked that way. But he has really shunned his fans with his youtube legal issues and the opening and closing of websites. It's very odd.

I'm a life long Prince fan. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/wa...QArTXq6V9s
Dana Marshall in the Show Nobody Watches:

http://www.youtube.com/us...odyWatches
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Reply #77 posted 05/10/10 1:43pm

Jatrig

purpledoveuk said:

Marrk said:

Are too many releases of varying quality ruining his 'legendary' status?

Or will that always be intact?

hmmm



For most people the Slave thing nailed it as ruined...to the public he's still TAFKAP, fallen genius who has done nothing since





You're exactly right. It's amazing how many people I meet in 2010 who say "Oh, Prince? isn't he a symbol now or something? He still puts out albums wow?" I'm always so shocked when someone mentions owning a prince album that came out after 1992
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Reply #78 posted 05/10/10 1:50pm

NDRU

avatar

Jatrig said:

purpledoveuk said:




For most people the Slave thing nailed it as ruined...to the public he's still TAFKAP, fallen genius who has done nothing since





You're exactly right. It's amazing how many people I meet in 2010 who say "Oh, Prince? isn't he a symbol now or something? He still puts out albums wow?" I'm always so shocked when someone mentions owning a prince album that came out after 1992


I actually knew quite a few people who bought Musicology, but other than that I think you're right

Still I think his legacy is still secure, it's just he's not actually doing much to enhance OR diminish it anymore because we are the only people who have heard of Rave, The Rainbow Children, Planet Earth, Lotusflow3r, etc
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Reply #79 posted 05/11/10 6:14pm

skywalker

avatar

Still I think his legacy is still secure, it's just he's not actually doing much to enhance OR diminish it anymore because we are the only people who have heard of Rave, The Rainbow Children, Planet Earth, Lotusflow3r, etc



True, but how many major rock/music stars put out material every year that everyone is familiar with? If any artist releases material as often as Prince does, it's hard for the masses to keep up.
"New Power slide...."
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Reply #80 posted 05/11/10 7:13pm

nursev

No matter what Prince does or how many websites that fans hate-nothing and I mean nothing can change his musical legacy. That voice, that musicianship cannot be touched wink
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Reply #81 posted 05/12/10 9:12am

Jatrig

skywalker said:

Still I think his legacy is still secure, it's just he's not actually doing much to enhance OR diminish it anymore because we are the only people who have heard of Rave, The Rainbow Children, Planet Earth, Lotusflow3r, etc



True, but how many major rock/music stars put out material every year that everyone is familiar with? If any artist releases material as often as Prince does, it's hard for the masses to keep up.




agreed. and that's now how his "legacy" will ultimately be defined anyhow.
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Reply #82 posted 05/12/10 9:32am

RipTheJacker

diminishing.
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Reply #83 posted 05/12/10 10:59am

Deadflow3r

avatar

skywalker said:

Still I think his legacy is still secure, it's just he's not actually doing much to enhance OR diminish it anymore because we are the only people who have heard of Rave, The Rainbow Children, Planet Earth, Lotusflow3r, etc



True, but how many major rock/music stars put out material every year that everyone is familiar with? If any artist releases material as often as Prince does, it's hard for the masses to keep up.



The Rolling Stones have put out alot of music since "Some Girls" 'cause I guess they like making music. However all but the true die - hards keep buying each release. Prince's music is more than his product or his job. As that stupid 70's song sang (Brandi) Music is his life, his love and his lady and he'll always be doing it, but maybe not always be making it available to the public.
There came a time when the risk of remaining tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. Anais Nin.
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Reply #84 posted 05/12/10 11:11am

Brofie

avatar

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



What? Didnt 3121 go to no.1 on the album charts and 24 weeks on the charts? Didnt Lotusflow3r hit no. 1 as well?? It was 46 weeks kon the charts. I seem to recall Musicology got to no 3 and 38 weeks on the charts. Even Planet Earth came in at no 1 according to Billboard.

Name one artist who has been in the game as long as Prince and accomplished what he has who is still charting like that. Your hatred on Prince has caused you to play yourself more than once on this site.
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Reply #85 posted 05/12/10 11:23am

Timmy84

Brofie said:

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



What? Didnt 3121 go to no.1 on the album charts and 24 weeks on the charts? Didnt Lotusflow3r hit no. 1 as well?? It was 46 weeks kon the charts. I seem to recall Musicology got to no 3 and 38 weeks on the charts. Even Planet Earth came in at no 1 according to Billboard.

Name one artist who has been in the game as long as Prince and accomplished what he has who is still charting like that. Your hatred on Prince has caused you to play yourself more than once on this site.


Lotusflow3r hit number two but yeah lol
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Reply #86 posted 05/12/10 11:26am

NDRU

avatar

Brofie said:

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



What? Didnt 3121 go to no.1 on the album charts and 24 weeks on the charts? Didnt Lotusflow3r hit no. 1 as well?? It was 46 weeks kon the charts. I seem to recall Musicology got to no 3 and 38 weeks on the charts. Even Planet Earth came in at no 1 according to Billboard.

Name one artist who has been in the game as long as Prince and accomplished what he has who is still charting like that. Your hatred on Prince has caused you to play yourself more than once on this site.


I didn't read what he said as hatred. He compared him to Mozart! lol
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Reply #87 posted 05/12/10 4:13pm

1kelle

avatar

Brofie said:

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



What? Didnt 3121 go to no.1 on the album charts and 24 weeks on the charts? Didnt Lotusflow3r hit no. 1 as well?? It was 46 weeks kon the charts. I seem to recall Musicology got to no 3 and 38 weeks on the charts. Even Planet Earth came in at no 1 according to Billboard.

Name one artist who has been in the game as long as Prince and accomplished what he has who is still charting like that. Your hatred on Prince has caused you to play yourself more than once on this site.

U SAID IT !THAT'S TELLIN HIM!!!
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Reply #88 posted 05/13/10 8:17pm

nursev

NelsonR said:

Part of Prince's legacy entails his ability to keep his fans questioning "where he is" while remaining ever enticing and intriguing 2 most

razz




true eek
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Reply #89 posted 05/13/10 8:58pm

TheVoid

Brofie said:

TheVoid said:

I don't think so.

I mean, he's not getting radio play, and it seems no matter how many times he appears on Leno or on television, he can't get a top 10 hit to save his life.

The CDs are also not as well received as they were in the 80s.


But I don't think those things will diminish his legacy in the end. Mozart's music was largely ignored until after his death and which the material became more and more familiar and respected.


Prince's legacy won't be realized until probably old age, near death, or after death. He's only 52, which gives him at least 15 to 20 good years left to pen music.

I suspect he's penned some interesting stuff this last 15 years, and he's just been withholding much of it. He supposedly records music all the time even now...not all of it is going to suck. I suspect much of it will be brilliant.



Either way, there's a lot of really interesting non-Prince stuff out there right now that I listen to more often anyways. I rarely listen to Prince these days.



What? Didnt 3121 go to no.1 on the album charts and 24 weeks on the charts? Didnt Lotusflow3r hit no. 1 as well?? It was 46 weeks kon the charts. I seem to recall Musicology got to no 3 and 38 weeks on the charts. Even Planet Earth came in at no 1 according to Billboard.

Name one artist who has been in the game as long as Prince and accomplished what he has who is still charting like that. Your hatred on Prince has caused you to play yourself more than once on this site.


You obviously don't know how to read, resort desperately to conjecture, and can barely formulate a response in liue of it.

I didn't say albums.



lawd, the IQ of some folks on here.
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > As time goes by, is Prince enhancing or diminishing his legacy?