SPOOKYGAS said:

The only thing you've hit is a brick wall. Your post stands on sandy ground, at best. You're so obsessed with trying to knock me down, you can't even see straight. You lose.

ernestsewell said:

Quite honestly Ernest, I think that you suffer from continuous projection. And of course you don't see it, that's why it's projection.

Why do you feel the need to put EVERYBODY down, pull them up on their typos, their errors, etc etc. What do you actually gain? Does it give you a feeling of power? Does it make you feel better than the others?

I'm quite sure, underneath that facade, there is a really nice guy somewhere in there.. It's just a pity you don't let him out to play more often.

I listened to your music by the way. it's not bad, and I'd give feedback but can't find the thread in Org. community.

I'm afraid though, that's it no where near as good as TRC. I find TRC lyrics totally unpredictable for starters. And no, i don't know all the lyrics to the RC but I've seen the ones posted here.

Bohemian67 said:

This is precisely why Ernest should not be making statements like "TRC belongs in the trash", particularly as a music-maker himself. Any musician who properly cares about their art and the artform itself doesn't go around knocking other people's work to this sort of extreme. One should exhibit some humility and appreciate the other artist's work, even moreso when your own work doesn't hold a light to theirs! And if he truly expects us to believe that it doesn't irk him in the slightest that people may not like his music, then you can only conlude that the music has no soul - you cannot have put your all in to it if it's reception isn't going to have some meaning to you. So, which is it - lying and bravado, or do you not care about the music you make?

I'm a musician and producer and a fairly accomplished one at that. I work with lots of excellent musicians, some quite famous. None of us would have the audacity to compare ourselves with one of the greatest musicians who lived, let alone promote the fact that we should trash some of their music.

You don't have to like other people's music and sure you can criticise - but you shouldn't be rude or dismissive, especially when your own work is found to be wanting. Your own music doesn't even come anywhere near being as good as Wedding Feast, yet you think TRC as a whole should be binned?! Is the irony really lost on you? Open your ears and your mind and learn fron what is around you - its much more becoming than getting your arse out in front of everyone so they can watch you wipe other people's efforts between your cheeks!
[Edited 4/17/10 4:17am]

Bohemian67 said:

This is precisely why Ernest should not be making statements like "TRC belongs in the trash", particularly as a music-maker himself. Any musician who properly cares about their art and the artform itself doesn't go around knocking other people's work to this sort of extreme. One should exhibit some humility and appreciate the other artist's work, even moreso when your own work doesn't hold a light to theirs! And if he truly expects us to believe that it doesn't irk him in the slightest that people may not like his music, then you can only conlude that the music has no soul - you cannot have put your all in to it if it's reception isn't going to have some meaning to you. So, which is it - lying and bravado, or do you not care about the music you make?

I'm a musician and producer and a fairly accomplished one at that. I work with lots of excellent musicians, some quite famous. None of us would have the audacity to compare ourselves with one of the greatest musicians who lived, let alone promote the fact that we should trash some of their music.

You don't have to like other people's music and sure you can criticise - but you shouldn't be rude or dismissive, especially when your own work is found to be wanting. Your own music doesn't even come anywhere near being as good as Wedding Feast, yet you think TRC as a whole should be binned?! Is the irony really lost on you? Open your ears and your mind and learn fron what is around you - its much more becoming than getting your arse out in front of everyone so they can watch you wipe other people's efforts between your cheeks!
[Edited 4/17/10 4:17am]

Mindflux said:

you mean like "I don't know I was really drunk at the time?"

greyhoodiegirl said:

What? I do. Any musician has the same gift. We play music. We write it. We perform it. We live it. We thrive on it, and starve without it. The differences lie in HOW we've used it over the years. Prince is only a mere human being, like the rest of us, which makes us a lot more alike than different.

ernestsewell said:

Assuming for a moment that it is true that u have the same musical gift as P, then you are actually admitting that you were too lazy to develop this gift;that if you had developed this gift, you would have top ten singles, sell out mega concerts, even an Oscar to boot! This of course is totally ridiculous. Anyone with a talent for music don't have the same gift as someone else who does. Goodness, if I had continued with my piano lessons I would be as good as Billy Joel or Elton John:-).

What? I do.

Hero0101 said:

HEY "Hero", did u actually read Ernest's post? Are u on Ernest's payroll or something? wow! So, your saying Ernest ONLY said he didn't like the album? WHY DONT U ASK ERNEST TO MOVER OVER, SO U CAN GET ANOTHER LOOK AT HIS POST.. ...read again...Ernest actually referred to Prince's and many other's religion as BULLSHIT...you cosign that and people on here know what kind of person u really are...Your defending someone who lives in Prince's past...Hero, I have 4 words for u buddy...and u can whisper this in Ernest's ear as well...THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE!!! u even said u like the musicality of TRC...Yet your defending Ernest who thinks TRC should be in the trash can...pure hypocrasy I tell u. what a shame.

ernestsewell said:

I am amazed that U have all this time to spare on the org. .

I just think everyone should be entitled to their opinions.
Is that so wrong?

Hero0101 said:

It's only wrong until it steps on someone else's two cents, and then it's "you're a know it all" or dives into genus barking among everyone.

No one will ever convince me that TRC is anything other than religious gutter fodder. I wish I could appreciate it musically or otherwise, but until there's an instrumental version of the album put out (which might be sort of cool), it won't be on my playlist. I'm not here to convince anyone of my opinion, but if someone challenges me on it, I will defend it, just as I would defend their right to their opinion.

If folks think about it...it's kind of split on TRC thing, so with almost equal votes on either side, we sort of cancel each other out. LOL

Such silliness over a CD.

it's one of his two best albums this decade, the other being Lotusflow3r

ernestsewell said:

Is that the sound of you coming to your senses, defeat or the meds talking

How can I reduce the music of someone I could never reach the talent / genius to this:

lotusboy said:

Hey there. Couple things.
First of all, I don't know Ernest, anymore than I know you. I don't even agree with his feeling on the album, as I can listen to TRC and enjoy it immensely, though I disagree with the majority of the politics/religion he speaks of. The last three songs in particular are among my fave post 2000 Prince tracks.
Second, by looking back at the topic, the only thing Ernest had posted was that he thought the album was trash (or sucked monkey balls). You immediately attacked him. He didn't bring religion in until YOU mentioned it first. Then he gave his opinion on the religion discussed within the album. So I'll say...if you hadn't attacked him, we wouldn't even be HAVING this discussion.

I just think everyone should be entitled to their opinions.
Is that so wrong?=0P

PS. For the record, that means Prince has the same right, and can preach whatever gospel he cares to. I may not agree with his views, but he can say whatever.
PPS. Also for the record, you mentioned living in Prince's past, I actually prefer 90s Prince to much of 80s Prince, and didn't start feeling *meh* about his music until Planet Earth.

Hero0101 said:

Yes to the bolded part. however, Ernest has continuous lashes at many people on this board. Or do you condone the name calling and religion attacking? Do you call that opinion?

Freedom of speech is one thing. When opinions aim at direct slander and belittling of others it is abusive. Hell there are even sites online where you can LEARN this if you're so inclined.

If you don't believe the hate concept go here: http://www.securitymanage...bat-005259 It IS a problem and there are even Global summits regarding this. So what is hate speech? Quote:

hate speech: Intended to [b]degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person (or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance (such as height, weight, and hair color), mental capacity and any other distinction-liability.

Now back to TRC.

I am wondering if the Everlasting now is liked by the non-believers on this board. Because if you ignore the "Christ/Father" in the chorus, the message in this song is good. If there is no life after death, the Everlasting Now is surely all there is, until it's lights out. The song message doesn't have to only be interpreted to religion but can also be a promotion of true consciousness for life while we're here.

Good for you Mindflux. You take what's good for you and remain true to yourself. Don't know the song Ten though.

ronnwinter said:

Now, don't jump out of your pram there ron!

I'll do as I see fit to make my points, thanks. Which includes throwing back at you what you said. You initially were making it clear that bad music equals poor sales, which isn't necessarily true. You are now effectively backtracking by talking about the corporate machine (which is in itself ironic, as others here had pointed out about the lack of promotion behind the likes of TRC and quite a few other post-warners albums). The same machine that manages to make crap music very successul - who'd have thought, eh?!

You also don't have your history straight. Prince's fanbase started dwindling after Purple Rain. It still wasn't bad, mainly 4 x platinum, but compared to the 14 x platinum of PR, that's one hell of a drop. It continued downwards until D&P and then went down again after that until Come barely scraped platinum (worldwide!). If the name-change was such a negative impact, why did the Symbol album outsell Graffiti Bridge and sell about the same as Lovesexy?

Also, Lovesexy didn't go platinum (in the US), neither did Graffiti Bridge, or Come (I think you'll find these all came before TGE!). You then say that "If Prince can sell 500,000 copies (of TGE) without the machine backing him..I consider that a success" sorry to point this out, but he was still with Warners at the time so had that "machine backing" - are you really keeping up with this?
[Edited 4/15/10 19:00pm]

ronnwinter said:

Now, don't jump out of your pram there ron!

I'll do as I see fit to make my points, thanks. Which includes throwing back at you what you said. You initially were making it clear that bad music equals poor sales, which isn't necessarily true. You are now effectively backtracking by talking about the corporate machine (which is in itself ironic, as others here had pointed out about the lack of promotion behind the likes of TRC and quite a few other post-warners albums). The same machine that manages to make crap music very successul - who'd have thought, eh?!

You also don't have your history straight. Prince's fanbase started dwindling after Purple Rain. It still wasn't bad, mainly 4 x platinum, but compared to the 14 x platinum of PR, that's one hell of a drop. It continued downwards until D&P and then went down again after that until Come barely scraped platinum (worldwide!). If the name-change was such a negative impact, why did the Symbol album outsell Graffiti Bridge and sell about the same as Lovesexy?Also, Lovesexy didn't go platinum (in the US), neither did Graffiti Bridge, or Come (I think you'll find these all came before TGE!). You then say that "If Prince can sell 500,000 copies (of TGE) without the machine backing him..I consider that a success" sorry to point this out, but he was still with Warners at the time so had that "machine backing" - are you really keeping up with this?
[Edited 4/15/10 19:00pm]

I'm a "non-believer" and love the Everlasting Now - I don't subscribe to this idea that you can't listen to music because you have an issue with the lyrics. I have my own mind and beliefs and no amount of another's preaching will change my mind. I can easily enjoy the positive messages in songs like TEN, without having to believe that its all down to some supernatural power.

Mindflux said:

Hmm... Well i dont have the patience to go researching the sales of Graffiti Bridge or Lovesexy...but I coulda swore they went platinum. Regardless they sold way more than rainbow. So did Rave, so did New Power soul, so did chaos, so did emancipation, so did come, so did gold experience.
But oh well...

Since youre so stuck on picking and choosing what you want to make a point... heres a very simple point.
If Nickleback released an opera album.. it would be considered crap by most of their fans. If Michael Bolton released a hip hop album.. it would be crap. If Josh Groban released a rap album.. it would be crap. If AcDc released a jazz album, it would be crap.
So....Prince releasing the rainbow children was crap in my opinion. It was totally out of his element...in my opinion.
Was it talented?...yes. Was it daring?..somewhat. Was it experimental?.. yes. Was it good?... to some. Was it bad?... to most.
Of course, it all boils down to opinion. But the fact remains, that the majority dislike the album. Set up a poll, take votes... whatever... because this is not my perception...its fact.

ronnwinter said:

Seeing as it took around 30 seconds to get that information, I can only assume you don't have any patience.

I don't know where this "picking and choosing" aspect is coming from, as I'm only dealing with what you write. And the next bit your wrote is utterly pointless. A hyopthetical situation with bands releasing albums in genres that are as utterly opposite to their musical careers as possible with your speculation as to how the audience would react. What is anyone supposed to take from that, other than you have no real concrete argument to put forth. Its also irrelevant as TRC treads musical ground that Prince had ventured in before - there was nothing new in TRC - its still a jazz/funk/r'n'b hybrid like many of his tracks before, it just had a more "organic" production compared to other works. If that is "out of his element" then he's been out of his element his entire career!

And with regard to the last paragraph where, after providing nothing of any substance at all, you now want us all to regard your opinon as fact. Well, a fact my friend is only a fact if you can prove it - so, go ahead, be my guest.
[Edited 4/17/10 16:11pm]

Mindflux said:

Lol... Youre a great debator my friend. But I didnt start this debate..you did.
I did take the time to look up some sales. But got conflicting reports. Platinum, not platinum, millions here, not millions here, millions worldwide. So who knows. But you are right...I have little to no patience in most areas of my life.
I have stated numerous times.. the opinion of rainbow is MY opinion as well as a lot of others. But its opinions none the less.
I will continue to believe I am in the majority, until YOU prove ME wrong....
But gotta tell ya... it isnt looking too promising for you, cause if ever i can use record sales to back me.. its on this. Albums before AND after it sold more, so to me that speaks for itself. Again..MOST prince fans did not like it.
Its no big deal to me if its good to the majority or bad to the majority. Im just calling like I see it. But even if ALL 160,000+ fans that bought it absolutely praised it and called the next purple rain...I would still say its a crappy album..to ME.
You make valid points, and Im man enough to admit it. But I still believe youre in the minority.

ronnwinter said:

That's fine - believe what you want. And the only reason proving you wrong over that opinion is not going to happen is because it is you making the assertion, not me. You have to prove what you claim - you can't say something that you can't prove and put the onus on the listeners to disprove something that you suggested.

But, anyway, this has been fun....be seein' ya