BartVanHemelen said:

Why do you think that? 1000s would ruin this thread, but maybe you could give at least some?

Tremolina said:

We do not no the terms of his contracts before and after WB.

What I am doing based upon my "limited" knowledge is looking at facts in this case and using other situations as background.

We are all in agreement that "we" would automatically buy the material if it was released. I also think that WB and Prince would make a profit.The question is why it has not been released. Are the bean counters saying that instead of selling a million copies it would only sell 300,000? We don't know.

Now there also could be some type of "intellectual property" clause in those contracts. Controvery music or Paisley Park may own the copyright but not the control of how when or why the property is released.

I was caught up in a situation like this about 15 years ago when an idea of mine was legally blocked in a court of law. I did not know until I was about to
be published that work done under a former employer was that employers property.

My gut feeling is that this is blocking some of that material from being released.

muleFunk said:

That's true, but from what we do know, we can make a reasonably good assesment of it and as far as I can recall, nobody, not Prince, nor WB, nor associated artists, nor any lawyers or journalists, nor authors like Per Nilsen or others, ever made any commnents indicating that WB would own all the material Prince ever recorded while under contract with WB.

What seems most likely is that WB owns all the Prince recordings that were ever officially released on their label. If they would own more, like (m)any studio or live recordings, Prince making a deal with WB would be the only explanation how Prince could have released CB on his own. But we all know that is very unlikely and no information has ever surfaced indicating that they had.

Also, if you dig a little deeper, for example when you check the US copyright office for the copyright registration of Crystal Ball, you find this:




This info indicates that, altho' much of this material was recorded during the WB years, these recordings are still owned by Prince/NPG records. Please note: I am not saying this "proves" Prince owns that material, but it is an indication that he does.





Yes, it's very well possible that there are legal issues involved why it's not easy to release this. I do not think however that these issues could be so much with WB, but more with the artists he recorded much of those songs with. For example, if you go by the copyright registration of Crystal Ball again, you would see that it is claimed by Prince/NPG records as employer for hire. This could be their standard way of registration, but it could also indicate that Prince hired band members like Wendy & Lisa for example, on a work for hire contract. It's possible that they legally didn't work for hire and do not agree with that and therefore wish to be paid royalties or block such releases. I am not saying this is the case, but it's a possibility.


--
[Edited 3/7/10 7:02am]

BartVanHemelen said:

Agree on your observations, but what is your theory on his poor marketing "strategy" relative to concerts, reissues, etc.?

I believe he just does not concern himself with the details and business discipline necessary to run an independent company. His ego and past negative experiences do not allow him to turn over business management. And he abhors a certain kind of nostalgia, "looking backwards" and "navel gazing." He gets off on creating and releasing (sometimes subpar) his new creations into the universe. We know his process and history- where's the mystery? He fought the first Greatest Hits set and he feels recorded live performances do psychological damage to the mystery of his current live performances; which in reality are his sole new financial source. I tend to somewhat agree to his philosophy of live performing vs. video saturation. Prince is not Pearl Jam or Neil Young or Grateful Dead- thank god.

ronnwinter said:

This would be amazing.He'd turn a whole lot of people onto his music.I would buy this.

thedance said:

The Beautiful Experience tv-special (Different tv stations 1994):

(I'm not mentioning the seagues)...

Interactive,
Days Of Wild
Come
Race
Acknowledge Me
Pheromone
The Jam
Shhh
Loose!
Papa
The Most Beautiful Girl In The World
Now
Poem/ Orgasm

Love 4 One Another tv-special (VH-1 1996):

Intro
Rock N Roll Is Alive (And Lives In Minneapolis)
Days Of Wild
Inner City Blues (Nona Gaye)
The Ride
The Jam
Purple Medley
Gold



The L4OA - Video Break (VH-1 1996):

(very funny imo. great Prince humour..)...

Intro
The Good Life (NPG)
Count The Days (NPG)
Dolphin
If I Love U 2 Nite (Mayte)
Outro

(Note.. may not be 100% accurate)


---
[Edited 3/7/10 3:45am]
[/quote]

hey MattyJam did you see the response?
[Edited 3/7/10 8:08am]

BartVanHemelen said:

Oh so they are going even gold then? Nobody said the reviews of remasters aren't stellar. We were talking about them being profitable enough to be bothered with. But as already stated, profit isn't the case for them to be done anyways. Go try and have sex Bart.

Tremolina said:

We are on the same page .

I did not even think about this which is even a stronger possibility than my reasons.

Prince is definitely not a perfectionist. Unless he has a very skewed idea about what perfection is.

Art is not about what he is about. He is about making bank.

Warners, I think can make money from anything he puts out that was recorded at the time he was at the record company. He tries to own the masters, but has yet to get them. He will never until the economy is changed.

Whether Prince was or is a perfectionist wasn't the question


here's the thread title again:

'Prince: the "most secret artist" - motives to why he's not releasing DVD's and other stuff?'

thanks anyway.....

Maybe Prince doesn't have his catalog remastered, and more DVD's, etc, because he doesn't fucking want to.

Get.Over.It.

Paris9748430 said:

Paris9748430 said:

I get scared by you, Paris... always so aggressive.

You need a hug or something?

thedance said:

I'm not aggressive at all.

I'm just annoyed at the constant bitching, and bitching, and bitching!!!

Jesus, if Prince isn't your thing anymore, then maybe you should start following Bruce Springsteen or Duran Duran.

Paris9748430 said:

duran duran

whatever... Paris - it's just opinions, it's hard to be "constantly positive".

not every fan is swallowing everything from Prince.

he needs to be told when he is making poop, Purple & Gold / Cause & Effect.

Now... back on topic.

thedance said:

I never said that you shouldn't give your opinion.

But if EVERY single one of your posts is about how you don't like Prince's music, his religion, and pretty much anything else in the last 10 years than maybe he's not the one with the problem.

^ Hey, damn U Paris, lol....

I'm far from being negative all the time, read my replies in the Love Is A losing Game, or the Emancipation 1-Disc threads recently....

I am usually very positive, but not always. MattyJam said I am using the heart emoticon quite often, maybe too much, you can't be right both of you....

There's a very strange misunderstanding involved in many of these "critical" threads IMHO. If you're into something, you well have the right to critizize it.
If you DON'T care for something, then why be concerned with it at all? Critizizing something - finding the time to evaluate it, make up a distinct opinion on it, talking about it at all - needs a certain kind of commitment. If you don't even consider something to be a topic worth talked about - THEN you're expressing you're not into it. If you DO, then you well show that you care about it, no matter what your actual opinion may be.

How the hell can it be a problem to be a HUGE Prince fan and still dislike his output over the last years? Is it a problem to say that? Turning one's back to him because of that - now THAT would be somebody who's not really into it. But sticking to being a Prince fan, while saying that you prefer the 80s to the 90s, or the 90s to the 2000s, IS showing you're a real fan. Face that.

I've never heard of any other fan community being so very intolerant and stupid towards other fans that might come up with some harsh criticism, even if it covers a whole decade. Hell, i absolutely HATE 85% of his 90s output. Does that make me a "bad fan"? You must be kidding.

The controversial discussion about LF.com has shown it all. I cannot imagine a single other fan community that gets ripped of that hard by the artist it adores and still complains about people complaing. That's "lemmings", not "fans".

^ cool, nice read.

ps... correction: it's xlr8r (not Mattyjam) who think I am using the heart emoticon a bit too often here on the Org:

xlr8r said:

haha I was laughing here...

the answer is I am male, but I still love most of Prince's music.

FunkyDissCo said:

FunkyDissCo said:

If I HATED 85% of an artists work throughout a decade. I wouldn't listen to that artist anymore.

It seems like a lot of the more critical fans are gluttons for punishment.

They constantly say how much Prince's music has declined, or how much he's "ripped off" his fanbase, but when he releases something. Be it a one-off single, an album, or whatever.

They act shocked that they don't like it, then they act personally offended.

They go on the org saying how much they don't like something. Then, when the next release comes out, they're normally the 1st ones to hear it.

Then, after they hear it, they come back here to release all their fake outrage.

They whine and complain, a lot, but they always come back for more.

If I went to a restaurant and didn't like the food. I'm not gonna go back to that restaurant with a megaphone telling people who do like the food how much it sucks.

I'm also not gonna go into that restaurant, and continue to eat there after telling people how much it sucks for 20 years, and that the food and service is absolute garbage compared to when the restaurant 1st opened.
[Edited 3/8/10 1:56am]

^ Com'on Paris, your points about that restaurant makes no sense!

do you want me to turn my back to Prince music (and maybe the Org too?) because I don't like 3121 or Planet Earth????

Do you want me to like what I disliked in the first place... (those 2 albums)??

Comon, you (and I) have to be true and speak your/ my honest opinions.

I most of Prince's music - but still my opinion is the 2000's has been pretty weak.

I believe it's my right to speak my own opinion... as honest as possible.

Paris9748430 said:

Apart from a restaurant is a service, not a product. People here aren't 'fondly misremembering' a meal they had 20 years ago, they're whacking 15 albums into their hifi and listening to them.

And as they have purchased every single one of those albums as well as the later ones, they have just as much right to comment on them as anyone else.

if all you want to do is constantly talk about how good Prince is and how equally great every single song he has ever released is, this place would be the most boring forum known to man. We need opinions that differ to your own, that's how we grow and learn as human beings.

Erik
[Edited 3/8/10 2:04am]

Paris9748430 said:

That doesn't make too much sense to me. I, personally, would skip those 85% and listen to the other 15. And listen to all the other stuff that i DO like. And stick to my principle of being honest to others about what i think of these 85%.

Hey, I'm listening to a lot of his music, but it's like every 3 years i put the Come album on (which i don't like). Same goes for Emancipation. But why the hell should that lead me to not listening to SOTT anymore? I don't get it.

Paris9748430 said:

So, why do you think they do? Could it be that it's because they're real "fans", still believing in his ability to deliver something they love? Still cherishing him for the stuff they really like? Isn't that, what you're saying here, EXACTLY what being a fan means??

Paris9748430 said:

But why the heck do you think it's "fake"? I think the least you could accept is that the "outrage" over certain stuff is quite authentic. LOL

PS: You're making full stops at interesting positions of your sentences.
[Edited 3/8/10 2:36am]

What id really love is a release of prince videos, id pay good money for a blu ray set, no worries!!

FunkyDissCo said:

Looked at his recent site?
Seen the Aladdin DVD?
Listened to his latest albums?

I don't understand how you lot can look at Prince's output and think "this is the work of a perfectionist".

xlr8r said:

How about READING what I said? I said ZILCH about reviews being good, I told you to look at what gets released EVERY MONTH. You claim that remasters of Prince's stuff wouldn't be -- yet somehow obscure artists get remastered, and plenty of those remasters involve MAJOR labels.

xlr8r said:

So why then do you keep bringing this up?

xlr8r said:

Grow up. Grow a spine. Are you that insulted by people blowing holes in your lame theories?

razord said:

Dude, 99% of that shit is SD. Utterly pointless to put it out on BD.

BartVanHemelen said:

I think you're mixing things up. Yes, I've seen his site, seen the DVD, listened to all his albums.

But that you/I/we consider something imperfect hasn't got anything to do with him being a perfectionist. He still might be. You can well be a perfectionist control freak and come up with average results which others will consider as "not perfect" or "flawed". The "quality" of a result is not a good indicator for the artist's attitude or psychological profile, to put it that way.

The Aladdin DVD may not be the perfect example, you're right. But the SOTT movie sure is, as is releasing no real live albums but only stuff which was overdubbed to death, releasing overproduced albums, etc. Especially an album like Emancipation is. His whole dresscode and stuff is. The way he played shows last year is. Etc.
[Edited 3/8/10 6:15am]