[This thread started about SHM-CD packaging questions and has turned in to a comparison thread - skip to post #12 and #31 if you want to read the comparisons. If you happen to own the SHM-CDs, please post your own comparisons! Even if they are 180 degrees different from mine, I certainly won't argue with you (after all they are your ears!). I just think the community would benefit from different perspectives.]

I just received those great Prince LP replica SHM CDs as a birthday gift from my wife... and yes, they look fantastic (I have yet to listen to them though). Question for those that own the "Around the World in a Day" SHM-CD:

1) Did your ATWIAD disc come in a replica dust jacket? My ATWIAD had the disc in a clear cellophane-like sleeve only, no DJ. I found that odd as ALL of the other albums had the disc in a clear cellophane-like sleeve inside a replica dust jacket save for this one.

2) Did yours come with the "Balloon Boy" sticker cut out? I know not every region had this cut-out, but I figured since the SOTT replica came with all the stickers, etc that ATWIAD would include the "Balloon Boy".

I'd appreciate your insights; if I am missing something I will have to arrange for an exchange. Many thanks!
[Edited 2/15/10 16:22pm]

Some of the Prince SHMs have plastic sleeves and ATWIAD is one of them. For You also has the plastic.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/...)-2009.jpg

http://www.freewebtown.co...d/6229.htm

Thanks squirrelgrease (and thanks for the freewebtown link)! You are two for two w/ assists - it is much appreciated.

My "For You" actually came with a replica dust jacket (plus the plastic sleeve)... so it looks like ATWIAD is the only one sans dust jacket. I also pinged the Japanese reseller to see if he could check his other ATWIAD stock to see if any had a DJ. If he reports something different I will update this thread.

The mini albums are brilliant looking btw... you've got to love Warner Japan's attention to detail.
[Edited 2/5/10 6:52am]

BlackbeltJones said:

The packaging is stunning on these. This is the For You pic I was referencing. That's obviously the dust jacket behind it, I guess I need to look at more than a thumbnail next time.

I found a site(can't post link here because it has illegal downloads) that has pix of all the Prince SHMs and it appears that ATWIAD has no dust jacket.

Whew! Thanks for tracking that down! As sad as it sounds, I wasn't truly able to "enjoy" ATWIAD until I knew I had "all the pieces." Sad I should get so particular about something like a dust jacket, but these releases are so perfect in every way I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on something. Thanks for putting my mind at ease...

If anyone has any questions about the releases, let me know. I plan on going though all of them through my AKG 271 Studio headphones this weekend, so I will let you know if they sound any "better." That magic coating they use is likely more a marketing gimmick than anything, but it appears that they may have had access to source masters (closer to first generation perhaps?) and better quality control when producing this latest batch of CDs… but, at the end of the day, I am really guessing of course. I can say they are clearly not remastered, but so far the first few releases seem to have a bit more depth and clarity versus the 80s versions (and yes, I compensated for the volume difference). I don't *think* it is my ears playing tricks on me to justify the purchase, but I am nerdy enough to do some blind tests for the fun of it, so I will let you know what I think.

^ Looking forward to the reviews.

Curious about the reviews too!

Reviews!?

You mean: you didn't order them yet?
They have been available for a while.
And they aren't too expensive, at least in Europe that I know of. (you gotta love deflation)

Because you will have a physical copy of each of the older releases, what is the idea about sampling the shm releases by downloading a few bits? You do have a `license` to the work. The newer release is the same work, just in a presumably slightly better production. (and the attention that has been paid during production shows, imnsho)

?

udo said:

I own them all but I have not had the time to give each re-released disc a careful A/B comparison against the original CDs. I wanted to do this correctly, and not just throw up some half-assed observations (like I have already!).

Just so the odds are "even" between the US 80s era CDs and the Japanese 00s re-releases, my plan is to rip uncompressed WAVs of several tracks via EAC. EAC, of course, will ensure that the rip is "pure" for both sets of releases. I then need to adjust the volume on the older releases to match the new releases to compensate for the difference ("loudness" can sometimes trick your brain in to thinking something sounds "better"). The last step is have my wife rename the tracks so I don't know which version of a song came from which release. That way I won't have any bias towards the new CDs! Then I upload the WAVs to my iPod so I can take them for a spin - the fun part!

I have AKG 271 pro studio headphones which are great for this sort of thing as they are designed NOT to color sound in any fashion. They offer a really wide dynamic range and allow the audio to come through in a totally transparent fashion, which is perfect when you want to hear nuance.

I will post my observations in a new thread when I complete the above, I can assure you all! I would have done so sooner, but, you know how life always seems to get in the way of the trivial stuff.
[Edited 2/14/10 8:13am]

I don't think this will work well.
At least a multiband compressor/EQ was used over the original CD-master.
Maybe even they had (a copy of) the WB multitrack studio masters and reprocessed that one.
By just running the old CD through a compressor will not easily fix the difference.

Why not just listen?

udo said:

That's exactly what I planned to do, per the post above yours! (Something is getting lost in translation here.)

I never mentioned anything about using compressors or multiband EQs. Why would I? I am trying to make this an apples-to-apples comparison, so dry tracks ripped by the same software in to the same file format are the only way to do this... I am simply going adjust the volume of the original CDs in iTunes so they are close in level to the newer tracks, that's all. This is so I can give myself as close to a blind test as possible on my studio monitor headphones.

And yeah, it will work just fine for the purposes of giving a courtesy review to a bunch of people in a forum (I mean, I am actually going to some lengths to make this a blind test...)

And I will do this when I have the time over the next week.

CDs Compared
"1999" Original 1990 Warner US release (9 23720-2) vs. "1999" 2009 Warner Japan SHM reissue (WPCR-13534).

Specific Tracks Compared
"Delirious" [Track Length US / Japan (4:00.826)]
"Let's Pretend We're Married" [Track Length US / Japan (7:21.573)]
"D.M.S.R." [Track Length US / Japan (8:17.493)]
"Automatic" [Track Length US / Japan (9:28.106)]
"Lady Cab Driver" [Track Length US / Japan (8:19.44)]

Notes
1) The CDs were tested and ripped as WAV files using EAC.
2) The songs were compared through AKG K271 Studio headphones.
3) The iTunes individual track "Volume Adjust" sliders were positioned at roughly +35% to compensate for the lower average volume of the original CDs.
4) The track lengths on both CDs match each other to millisecond; I do not know if a different source master or manufacturing process would necessarily alter the track length.
5) I am just a regular schmo in his 30s with a wife & a kid who happens to dig P's music. I do not have nor do I claim to have "golden" ears, so take this comparison with a grain of salt.

The Results
It kills me to write this (and contradicts my first impressions several posts up), but, save for the louder average volume, I could hear no difference between the two releases. Even the noise present on each version sounds identical. Of course I went back and forth between all of the tracks a second time, spot checking random sections of each song. At one point I had my wife select the tracks so I didn't know which was sourced from which CD; listening "blind" really drove home how much these two CDs sound alike.

ORGer cinnamonboy had similar results with his SHM-CD copy of "1999" (see post #126: http://prince.org/msg/7/309365?&pg=5), so I am not about to pass judgment on the whole set until I get through them all. My conclusion for the "1999" reissue, however, is that it uses the exact same source as the original release. In terms of sonic quality, the only fundamental difference I could hear between the two is volume.

If these results don't jive with you and you think ol' BBJ has listened to too much Slayer and it has fucked his hearing (and judgment), you may be right! Please see #5 under Notes above for details.

On the positive side, the reissued packaging kicks the original CD packaging to the curb, and it is the reason I wanted it in the first place. In spite of the apparent use of the original audio source, I am still thrilled with the reissue, so big ups to the good folks of Warner Japan for putting together such a bang-up looking product.

I will get to the other reissued CDs over the next week, and continue to update this thread.
[Edited 2/15/10 19:04pm]

Thanks for all the detailed insight (inhearing?)

Prost!

^^^Cheers! I plan on checking out "Parade" in the next few days, as there are very sonically dense songs on that album. Hopefully there is a different story to tell about the sourcing.

I hope others w/ these albums decide to chip in as well. It would be good to get a few more perspectives.
[Edited 2/14/10 15:50pm]

I hate that these reissues exist. Never before in my life have I wanted so badly something that I needed so little. They torture me.

BlackbeltJones said:

How else can we adjust the volume in a similar way as the newer releases were adjusted?


The digital audio already was using all 16 bits so we need to compress the audio slightly to get a similar effect as is present on teh shm releases.
Just turning up/down the amplifier does not do the same, as you may know.


Fire up audacity and compare the waveforms for identical sections of a song.
Use a graphic spectrum analyser to see differences in frequency domain.

First of all, thank you for doing the blind test. This is probably the best prepared review I've read in regards to these Prince SHM CDs. And by doing it blindly, you certainly did a huge favor to anyone coming across this thread. I've read as many personal opinions and reviews about these new releases as possible, but this particular thread hopefully drives home that SHM is exactly what it's "technical specs" read like: unadulterated marketing. Where's KaresB to hype these things? She/he had to be on the payroll.

I would love to get these, if not for the sake of being a completist, but because the packaging is just plain outstanding.

Thanks again Blackbelt! I am really interested in any further comparisons.

And udo, the waveform thread is here - with pix: http://prince.org/msg/7/3...sg_6814451 which decidedly concludes that the source material is exactly the same, but hit with a little EQ.

HobbesLeCute said:

You've summed up in a couple of sentences how I feel too Hobbes. It's the packaging that is just superb (as Squirrelgrease points out).

I had hoped that one day re-mastered versions of the CDs with bonus material would be released (and have similarly produced packaging) but I just can't see it anymore...

udo said:

Yeah, I know, but turning the volume up gets me about 90% of the way there... I'll just let me ears do the rest. But don't I at least get some props for ensuring the WAVs were properly ripped, for using headphones that don't color the source material and for doing the tests in a blind fashion?

I honestly respect folks wanting to go to the "next level" with these sorts of comparisons... but I think note #5 in post #12 tells you my limits!

squirrelgrease said:

Haha... NP. It's just nice to have a place to let my Prince Nerd flag fly. I was going to do this anyway, so it's fun to be able to share "results" with my fellow geeks.

And yeah, I think HobbesLeCute summed it up best as well - no one truly needs these CDs (especially if the sonics are that much different than the originals), but damn... they sure do look cool; that is where desire tends to kick reason in the junk.

If you were doing this on a budget, I'd say that "SOTT" and "ATWIAD" are really the crown jewels, as their packaging is the most different from the original CD releases. "Parade" gives you a sweet gatefold and "Purple Rain" gives you the poster and a LP sleeve, so you may want to add them in as well . Honors go to "1999" for the second LP sleeve (and "Controversy" if you really must have the Prince "Shower" poster).
[Edited 2/15/10 14:44pm]

I agree that the 1999 SHM-CD doesn't sound very different from the typical 1999 CD but there's one track I can really detect a difference in, D.M.S.R. On my regular 1999 CD, which is made in Europe, there's noticable crackling noise in the right channel in the drum break (comes in with the kick drum and increasingly noticable in the rest of the song following the drum break). That noise is not present on the SHM-CD, but the hiss level is slightly higher. I'm wondering if you hear the crackling noise I'm talking about on your original CD or if maybe the U.S. CDs are somehow different from the European 1999 CDs.

^^^I am guessing the CDs are the same between the US and the EU but I don't really know. I actually think the US CD was released twice, but I have no doubt there are folks here that can confirm it. I re-purchased my US copy of "1999" only three years ago after a theft, so it is a "newer" pressing.

Re: the "crackling noise": is it something that is present throughout the track, or do you only hear it when the kick drum hits (i.e. as if it is "distorting" the R channel)? Is there a specific start/stop time where it is really noticeable? I'd be happy to check out my US 1999 when I am home tonight (about 6PM Chicago, USA time).

I noticed that when you really pay attention to the songs on "1999" you can hear how noisy some of that old analog gear sounds. Still my favorite P album of all time though...
[Edited 2/15/10 8:42am]

squirrelgrease said:

I was saying how SHM is nothing but a scam re improved sound quality months ago on this very board, but was shot down in flames for the most part. Glad to see I've been proven right.

squirrelgrease said:

Thanks...
So there is no `loudness` change?
Hmmm

I do see some loudness, at least wider waveforms. Need to see more...
[Edited 2/15/10 8:38am]

BlackbeltJones said:

I just did a quick comparison and I noticed the crackling starts even sooner, it gets noticable around 5:30 into the song, it only comes in on some kick drum hits in the drum break, then when the "Jamie Starr is a thief" part comes, the crackling becomes more present. It seems to be in rhytm with the "D.M.S.-a-ar" synth riff, but it also comes in more random in other places in the song. I tried looking at the waveform during the drum break and I think I could identify the crackle on the original version but I had to zoom in really close to see it. Even when I didn't adjust for volume I heard clearly the noise on the original while the loud SHM-version sounded clean.

And yeah, you should check if you hear what I'm hearing on your copy...
That noise on the original always bugged me when listening through headphones, which is why I'm very happy to now have the SHM-CD.

^^^Awesome. Thanks for the specifics. It will be embarassing as hell if I missed that, but, then again, I have no shame. I will let you know what I find.

You know, as a kid, I always thought he was saying "Jimmy Scar's a Theif"... and I thought, "who is this Jimmy Scar character and why is he screwing with Prince?"

BlackbeltJones said:

Yeah, it actually does kinda sound like that.
Meanwhile, I would like to meet the person (Prince mentioned this in an interview) who interpreted the lyrics in "When Doves Cry" like this:
"Dig if U will a picture of me and Marvin Gaye and the kids"

Reguardless of the sound quality, and cuz I'm a geek, too, I'd love to get the 'Sign "O" The Times' package.
**on a side note** Ripping the 12" of "God (Love Theme From 'Purple Rain'), I found that the vinyl crackle was absolutely perfect in the mix. Audiophiles shudder at the thought, I gather!

Prost!

purplehippieonthe1 said:

Allrighty... I left work a bit early today (it's Presidents Day in the US, so half the country has off) and I just had a chance to give the "D.M.S.R." WAV from my US copy of "1999" a "spin."

My "D.M.S.R." has no crackling noise at all. That's the sort of thing I hear straight away, so I was surprised when I read your post - I thought I was "losing it" (which is ALWAYS a possibility)! So it looks like my "old" US version of "1999" is clean. Maybe you got a bad pressing? In any event, it must be nice for you to finally hear that track "crackle-free"! Thanks again for your details.

PS... Isn't the "label" on the 1999" SHM-CD great?

nayroo2002 said:

Haha... note you can now pick that song up "crackle free" from the 7digital store in the EU!

And yes, SOTT is the first package anyone should get IMO.