harveya said:

You're absolutely right. As I said, I don't actually dig U2 and I fully agree that SOTT is the better album.

Despite that, I have a problem with people making outlandish statements and completely dismissing other musicans, especially when it's clear that they don't know what they're talking about.

jimmyrogertodd said:

So you don't know them? LOOK THEM UP! I used Baaba Maal as an example of someone who couldn't be further than rock n roll.

And all antagonism aside, if you really haven't heard Talking Heads, check them out. Start with Remain In Light. That's some seriously funky shit.

Lastly, and for the last time (I'm done with this thread), I do think Prince should have won. But there's a difference in that, and the wholesale dismissal of another band with the claim that their victory was a travesty.
[Edited 12/7/09 16:37pm]

jimmyrogertodd said:

Agree. Prince can do anything they can do, and as he said around that time, "let them do Housequake." I don't think so. Bands with minimal musical talent like U2, get propped up by tired, "classic" rock journalists and critics who don't understand rythmn, funk, soul or the foundations of rock and roll. I'm comforted by the disgraceful dearth of Grammys for James Brown, Marley, Marvin, George Clinton, Little Richard, Prince, Sly, Jimi Hendrix...it shows the utter ridiculousness of the award.

And to think that U2 has as many Grammys (22) as all those artists combined really get's me steamed.

jdcxc said:

Is this just a thinly veiled race in music discussion? Who gives a shit about Grammys?

jdcxc said:

to you and Jimmyrogertodd. I agree that opinions are not fact and everyone is entitled to one. However, Twilitekid is CRAZY if he/she thinks that my pointing out that U2 is an AVERAGE, minimally talented band somehow means that I am closed minded. It's funny what people resort to when they don't have a leg to stand on. I listen to all kinds of music from musicians of varied talent levels, and U2 can't even hold a candle to some of the best rock bands out there musically, let alone any of the AMAZING talents that you just listed. Yet, I don't know what I'm talking about because Brian Eno worked with David Bowie, Baaba Maal and Sinead O'Connor among others and U2 have sold millions of albums with Joshua Tree spawning three number one singles - and we all know that album sales equate with talent. Surely, Shuggie Otis' lack of sales and number ones must mean he's a talentess hack. But the Spin Doctors are genuises given the millions they sold. Give me a break. The artists who you've listed have taken music in directions and inpsired generations in ways that U2 could never do. U2 have inspired people, but there appeal and range are limited. . You can find, rock, jazz, r&b, funk and hip hop artists who have been inspired by George Clinton, James, Jimi, Prince and Marvin. The same cannot be said for U2.There's nothing closeminded about that. It's a fact

I do remember Prince making a comment about awards shows and people like U2 winning. He said something like he knew he could play what they were playing but they couldn't play what he played. I never knew what the antecedent of that comment was, now I know. Yet, I guess Prince doesn't know what he's talking about either according to Twilitekid, because obviously U2 is so mammothly talented musically,a nd we're just too closed minded to see it. Whatever!

Way 2 go, babycakes

skywalker said:

No, its an open discussion open talent in music.

I'm surprised U2 have got a total of 22 grammy's,

and Prince a total of only 7.

remember no grammy for the Sign O' The Times or Lovesexy masterpieces

Not fair.

imo
[Edited 12/8/09 0:25am]

Well, I am pleased that Prince is nominated and sorry if this got offtrack with the U2 convo cause I was just saying what I felt and didn't even think of anything racial until TK brought up the Soul Train awards??? I really hope that Prince not only wins but performs. It would also be interesting to see which band he would perform with. I don't really know much of the other songs cause they aren't played on the pop station that I listen to while I work. Go Prince Go!!!

im late on this, out of state for the holidays but CONGRATS to prince! should we hold our breath for a performance? how about just an appearance?

I'm late too and admit that I haven't read the other 7 pages of posts so I hope this point wasn't coverrend already but I just listend to Dreamer and was like WTF?

Nominated for best rock vocal? Are you kidding me?

They must be dipping pretty low then becasue that was P in a Jimi mode and Jimi is not known as a great singer (in fact there's a whole other thread about that going on right now too).

Don't get me wrong, I love P and would like to see him win the grammy but let's be honest about this. Dreamer is really nothing special in the vocal department compared to what he is capable of, not even close.

I'm totally baffled as to why he was even nominated for it.

Now P has more talent than those he's up against if you ask me but why they picked this tune will escape me forever.

I know it didn't come out this year but Somwhere Here on Earth, now that's a good example of P's vocal prowess, especially the version he did on the last Jay Leno show.

Is it just me? Anyone else feelin' this?

jimmyrogertodd said:

What, is it illegal to critical examine race in this country? Especially, in the historic lack of appreciation for African-American art forms and innovation by the musical elite (Grammys) or intelligensia (rock journalism). The only time black music gets its due respect is when it is played by the likes of the Rolling Stones, Elvis, Van Morrison, etc.

jdcxc said:

It is nearly, 2010. WTF is "black music"? What is "white music"? Michael Jackson won 8 Grammy awards in one night? Is that respect? What kind of music did he do? Can you put it in a box?

squirrelgrease said:

Well damn, if that's the case then I just throw up my hands. Why would a vocal category have nothing to do with vocals except as to distinguish it from instrumentals?

That's just nuts. I surrender.

lezama said:

always....baby got it like that!!!!

skywalker said:

Unfortunately, there are different realms of reality cause some parts of the galaxy have actual moments of this happening in real peoples lives. But this wasn't about race but some artist were vastly overlooked during their careers while others flourish beit because of social decision at the time or tremendous talent. Michael Jackson success on that night when he won all those awards was the results of a lot of work and he had done what very few could even dream of doing. But in a racial way doesn't wipe away the past even if you want to disavow it like it didn't happen. Listen to the radio and tell me there isn't black and white music. Sad to say but the 80's were really keeping it real cause you could hear anything on the radio then. Something funky then you could hear Heart on the radio or EWF then Journey or Frampton and then Parliament or Clapton and then Bowie,Elton John,Genesis and the Con Funk Shun. Maybe not in that order but maybe just maybe someday something like that with some different artist if that still exists. Prince and all the nominees have really entertained all of us and we should just be pleased with their talent where ever you think it comes from. GOD help us all!!!
[Edited 12/8/09 21:32pm]

skywalker said:

I don't have to give a history of Black Music in America. It's interesting that once music is co-opted by the mainstream majority, that it ceases to be identified with its origination. For a better answer to your question, there are numerous books, college classes, journals and essays that examine the history of Africa-rooted music forms in this country.

Is your example of MJ meant to say that all is right in the Grammy world as it relates to awards, mainstream journalism/criticism and musical respect for black artists?

And its still amazing to me that U2 has more Grammys than Marley, Gaye, Clinton, Little Richard, Prince, Hendrix combined.

DakutiusMaximus said:

take a deep breath,
Plácido Domingo, José Carreras, and Luciano Pavorotti were busy singing Opera tunes this year.
For Rock, having a voice of someone that smokes non-filtered Camels and gargles with bourbon is a good thing. Bob Dylan's voice make not be the "best" in a traditional sense, but it is cool as hell, and in rock that's even better.

I heard he was in talks to add his voice to a GPS device. ...'Left at the next street, no a right. You know what? Just go straight'"
[Edited 12/9/09 5:25am]

DakutiusMaximus said:

they are just trying to boost ratings i guess

Prince might take Bria.....would be fun for her I think

LL Cool J the host? Beyonce vs. Taylor Swift? Kanye gonna show up? Tune in and find out!!

what a joke this show has become

You don't. I agree with most of what you are saying.




I agree. However, that could be said about any artform from any culture.





All I am saying is this. Like Michael Jackson, U2 is very mainstream, and very accessible to the masses. More so, than any of the acts you mentioned above. U2, like MJ, are very "safe". Naturally, these types of acts are going to win more good talk from mainstream journalists and critics, and more awards like Grammys. It is rare when cutting edge artists are recognized for their greatness "in the moment".

U2, arguably, is the world's most popular rock band. However, it is rare that they are cutting edge. That said, U2 is unique, and they do what they do better than anyone.

Ultimately it comes down to this: Prince crosses genres and huge gaps in popular music. So, one year he is up for the same award as Ne-Yo. Then, he is up for the same award as Springsteen. Naturally, this diversity (while exciting to fans) is going to weaken his chances for awards. U2 would have the same problem were they up for best hip hop song. They don't do Housequake, but they do what they do very, very, well. That's why they get more praise than you think they deserve.
[Edited 12/9/09 6:36am]

thedance said:

--
Prince had been nominated over 30 times in various catergoies. He just never received enough votes to win as many as U2.

Congratulations.

Dreamer. What a great song.
Best of luck to you, Mr. Prince Rogers Nelson.

skywalker said:

Good points. The Grammys have no artistic relevance or credibility and I have probably gotten worked up for years about them for nothing. I also get pissed at things like the Rolling Stone 100 Greatest Guitarists list (no Prince!) But when these things translate to record sales, it is really an injustice. A few more Grammys would have generated more sales for the underappreciated independent LotusFlower.

I actually respected it when Prince didn't care about awards (DMSR).

A Grammy? Really?
Whatever for...

jdcxc said:

That is quite amazing to me as well. But I think that Prince should win this one because since this is a vocal award and he is the best singer in that group then it would seem like he is a shoe in but then I also thought that for Sign 'O' the Times so you never know.

skywalker said:

Hahahahah, you said U2 up for a hip hop award!!! Now that is funny. Nothing against them cause they are good at what they do but they don't really go into unknown territory. I am actually looking forward to what they are supposed to do with the Spiderman broadway show if that ever happens just to see what they would come up with. I don't really agree with what you said about Prince's diversity weakening his chances. I think his stance on artist's rights and being virtually blacklisted from radio except for his WB catalog is what is hurting his chance. But he is selling cds and he is only available at Target so that alone should stand for something. I wish that others could hear some of his latest stuff which I think is great but I have friends all the time hear something new and go "I have never heard that one before". Sad but true. Go Prince Go!!!

Congratulations Prince!

GREAT song!

I'd like to see Colonised Mind nominated as well!

laurarichardson said:

It is weird that U2 has just over 3times as many as Prince. Maybe award shows are not suppose to make sense. There are plenty of great actors that lost time and time again. I also think that although some of his songs get alot of play on the radio, he has had so many songs that should have been released as singles and to my knowledge were not.