BartVanHemelen said:

It was clearly a joke not meant to offend French people. Chill.
& don't buy into american stereo types iaght?

Jeffiner said:

Once again, Jennikins brings words of wisdom to a post.

maybe these frenches had their grapes stomped with dirty soles. so the wine had no soul.

EmancipationLover said:

Oh really? I thought he was boss of himself now? So, either you're saying that his GREED still has him signing contracts that lock his output to a specific label, or you're admitting mr full of himself can't manage to keep his own frikking albums in print. Wasn't Emancipation supposed to be his masterpiece?

EmancipationLover said:

So? He released it, didn't he? He once scrapped an album after a bad trip, but his firstborn dying didn't warrant this? Instead he did more interviews in 48 hours than the rest of his career combined, hosted tons of journalists at PP, did a live TV show for MTV, went on Oprah and The Today Show etc.

EmancipationLover said:

I say "he didn't tour", and people like you come up with this baloney.

EmancipationLover said:

So he played 80% of the album live on each date?

EmancipationLover said:

Still didn't play the album.

EmancipationLover said:

Which part of "promoting an album by TOURING IT" is hard to comprehend? I repeat: if these albums are so great, how come most tracks from them have been played live a handful of times AT BEST?

EmancipationLover said:

So lemme get this straight: it's too hard for Prince to tour his new music but not to play GH sets. Gotcha.

Is it so bloody hard to simply admit that
a) these albums aren't very good and
b) this is proven by Prince failing to promote them and
c) by Prince failing to play tracks from them live and
d) by Prince failing to keep them in print.

In short: b, c and d are facts, a is the conclusion supported by these facts. Simple as that. All the other stuff you come up with: pathetic excuses. Disproven by previous behavior. Oh wait, I forgot, you're now claiming that Prince devised the SOTT tour because WB were forcing him to play all new music and only a short section of hits.

Bohemian67 said:

Are you guys NUTS? BLIND? LIVING UNDER A ROCK? You might have noticed that Prince HAS toured in the past 15 years -- except most of the time he couldn't be arsed to play his NEW music and instead he played music he recorded while he was a "SLAVE".

Now, call me nuts but if I was Prince and I thought my new music was just as good or better than the stuff I'd recorded 10/20 YEARS AGO, I'd play the NEW music, not the same ole crap. BUT PRINCE DIDN'T DO THAT.

Ain't that a bitch: Prince had a choice and instead of playing his super-duper new music (something he did do in 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1994, 1995), he played OLD music. Not only that, most of the songs he released post-1995 have only been played a HANDFUL of times. So not even "occasionally", not even "every now and then", no they have been performed only RARELY.

Call me crazy, but if I were Prince and I thought my new music, which I recorded "while being free", is just as good as the old stuff, you're gonna hear it. Repeatedly. Don't like it? "You ain't gots da funk." Except THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. Ghee, I wonder why?

theRight1 said:

Yeah, he so passionate about it he can't be arsed to promote the album.

JesusFreak said:

Oh, so I'm imagining all these reports on how the US is so obese, on how you guys put fructose in everything, etc? They're stereotypes because they're true.

BartVanHemelen said:

ok we get it now
you don't like his recent output , fine , good for you
but others do
different strokes for different folks
you don't have to bitch on everyone that does like it
what's the purpose ?
you come off as a bitter , bitchy person
that has nothing else to do but posting negative crap on a website , it's pathetic
[Edited 10/5/09 14:25pm]

mushmackalenta said:

exactly



discussing music with a madonna fan is pointless
[Edited 10/5/09 14:27pm]

Dewrede said:

..
[Edited 10/5/09 14:32pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

I simply think he doesn't care too much about past recordings being in print or not. I won't rule out greed playing a role, we all know Mr. Nelson loves some $. That is already speculation, but to speculate on any further reason is even more speculation.



I'm not obsessed enough with Prince to do statistics on how often he plays whatever song. He has played recent material in concerts more than just occasionally. I feel free to quote myself from the "stop wasting time" thread:

On the ONA live tour, he played a lot from TRC live (as you somehow indicated). On the corresponding live album, there are versions of TRC (title track), Muse 2 the pharao, 1+1+1=3, Family name, Everlasting now. The notion that he only did it in small venues and outside of Europe is simply nonsense. I attended the concert in Hamburg, CCH Saal 1 (that's not exactly small), and he played a lot of the TRC stuff there as well. In fact, it was so much that there was a debate in the press the day after the concert why he played so much strange recent songs and not his standard hits. I was coincidentally interviewed by a radio reporter regarding my opinion of the show and was asked what I thought about this huge amount of recent stuff unknown to many people in the audience. And now you (yes, that was you as well, Bart) come up with this hypothesis...

During his O2 concerts, he played some of the Planet Earth album. In the show I attended, that was Planet Earth (title track), Guitar and I think Chelsea Rodgers (I might be wrong on this).



I was only talking about Prince's frequency of touring in the classic sense in recent years, not at all about the setlist of the shows.



Is it so hard to admit that this is simply your personal opinion you are entitled to, without the need to shovel it down everyone's throat and to call everyone an ass kisser who does not agree with you?

ad a) Personal opinion
ad b) I can't look inside Prince's mind and I'm not his psychoanalyst, so I won't speculate on this. Oh, just a second: he does promote them, just not very extensively. Shouldn't he, by your logic, simply cash in on his hardcore fans and not mention these supposedly crappy albums to the general public???
ad c) Disproven. Naturally, an artist with a body of work as rich as Prince's is forced to make decisions what to put on a setlist and what to keep out. Whatever frequency of playing a recently recorded track live constitutes whatever state of conviction about the strength of this material is complete speculation.
ad d) Failing or being uninterested??? Again: I can't look inside Prince's mind and I'm not his psychoanalyst, so I won't speculate on this.

So, let me see, we have speculation on b), c) and d) and draw conclusion a) from it as a fact. Brilliant!!! You should try to send this to Nature or Science, the peer-review result will be fantastic!!!

I never planned to mention SOTT btw, but once you're in full effect, you're too busy washing the foam from your mouth to actually try to understand where people are coming from.

Try to play your little routine with the "Oh dear, Prince has such a sexy bum" gang, that will suit you better.

eireboy34 said:

ohh snappin for the kidz

ernestsewell said:

I agree entirely. Ppl that enjoyed Lotusflower/MPLSound are just settling for mediocrity. What we got was a snickers bar that was enjoyable at first, but then we're just left with empty calories. Prince really lacks the inspiration for music he once has and I think its because of his Cult. It limits his artistry and his openness to the world. When you're in a religion or cult that demonizes pretty much the whole world, you really just cut yourself off from reality.

While there are a few songs on both albums that I did like, both albums weren't entirely crap. I still feel like a lot of those songs were really hollow. I've been a fan of his my whole life of Prince's and I even liked 3121 & Planet Earth, so I don't say this lightly.

rudedog said:

So he recorded 3121 and Planet Earth being a JW and you like both albums, and then the JW religion is guilty of Lotusflow3r being a disappointment? Right...

EmancipationLover said:[quote]

rudedog said:

On those albums he actually SURROUNDED himself with creative artists and ideas. I think it really sparked something in him which is what is lacking in these albums. What creative artists did he surround himself on LF/MS? I think his cult has a lot to do on why he's not branching out as an artist. You don't have to agree, I'm just putting the idea out there.

I dunno, think about it, Prince's creative peak is when he was more worldly, traveling to different countries and studying and being open to different religions/faiths. For LF/MS, he cut himself off and stuck himself in L.A.

I often also think these albums were his alimony albums. Recent divorce and I KNOW Mani took a pretty hunk of his money, so maybe the lack of inspiration in the albums lies within the fact that he was forced to put them out and make money quickly....hmm....$77 membership for what?

rudedog said:[quote]

EmancipationLover said:

From all we know, a major part of Lotusflow3r was recorded with Michael B. and Sonny T. in the same sessions as 3121 (song) and Planet Earth (song).

EmancipationLover said:

Ummm, a major part? Dreamer, Colonized Mind, maybe Wall of Berlin? Out of two albums? I wouldn't say that. ....

Those the songs mentioned are probably the best songs on the album. Hence why I didn't think it was completely horrible. I still say there is always something good on a Prince album and I stand by that. No one bring up N.E.W.S!

rudedog said:

I was only talking about Lotusflow3r Disc 1, not MPLSound or Elixer, and that would be both instrumentals, Dreamer, Colonized Mind, maybe also some other rock tracks, roughly half of the album. That makes a major part, in my book. There seems to be more band-oriented work on Lotusflow3r disc 1 than on 3121 to me (though I love 3121). IIRC, Lolita, Black Sweat, Incense & Candles (except for Tamar's vocals), Love, Fury, The Word and The Dance were all more or less mainly Prince playing alone in the studio.
[Edited 10/5/09 17:14pm]

EmancipationLover said:

Instrumentals? You are using instrumentals? Boring.... 4 our of 10 tracks, eh...more like 2 complete song and 2 throwaways. but okay...either way, 2 out of 4 suck donkey balls.
The 'rock' tracks are only interesting when Prince solos towards the end. 3121 was better, but still lacked energy, especially in the songs you mentioned. They are much better live, but thats just Prince.

BartVanHemelen said:

In the 1990 Rolling Stone interview while on the Nude Tour Prince stated that kids don't want to pay their money to hear songs they don't know. So, it seems that a lot of what he plays is dictated by his understanding of what customers want to hear. I'll admit it sounds a bit contradictory in relation to Prince being the artist that does not care about what anyone else wants, but in this he seems like an entertainer who is concerned with people getting their money's worth, even if he has to negotiate the live show. And he knows that they don't know most of the new work because he can't get played on the radio on his terms. So it seems that he'll compromise the live show or at least navigate the tastes of the paying customer to a live show but not the radio. So, this makes points "b" and "c" not so factual.

As for keeping songs in print, that is a financial decision not an aesthetic decision. Keeping them in print means that he has to constantly pay to have copies available. If they are not selling because he can't get radio play and he is not touring, then why should he go broke keeping them in print. He has them. He can listen to them and play them if and when he wants.

And, again, using his words, from the Tavis Smiley Show inteview, he is finally at a point in his life where he can play when he wants to play or tour. Is it so hard for you to accept that he may not want what you want for him? Your definition of success and his definition of success may be different. And the same applies when you assert "Is it so bloody hard to simply admit that these albums aren't very good?..." I can reverse the question and ask you why is it so bloody hard for you to believe that others like these albums? You don't like them. That's cool. But, why does it matter if others like them? And maybe I missed a post where somebody said something really crazy that pissed you off, but I'm one of those who like the latest outputs, and I've been down since 1980. Of course, we can all disagree, but it seems as if you are stepping across the line of good-natured banter to assert that anyone who likes Prince's latest output is lying, crazy, or doesn't know good music.

Dewrede said:

Congrats on completely failing to see the point.

EmancipationLover said:

Why is that relevant? Either he promoted them or he didn't.

EmancipationLover said:

The word you're looking for is "barely".

EmancipationLover said:

Sigh... Still not getting it, I see. Let's see: were these albums presented as Prince's next big gift tot he world? YES. Lemme give you a hint: Prince's new official website has the same name as his latest album. Now call em crazy, but that indicates to me that he thinks it is important.

EmancipationLover said:

Nope, still stands as a fact. Until you post a tracklist from each album and list how often each track is played in concert and come up with DECENT numbers (i.e. not "once during a soundcheck" but "almost every night during the tour"), my point still stands.

EmancipationLover said:

Yeah sure, convince yourself of that. Just keep repeating the mantra and ignore that in the 1980s the latest material was always the core of the shows. Ditto 1994/95. And the early stages of TRC.

EmancipationLover said:

Hi-la-rious. So Prince isn't interested in keeping his "masterpieces" in print, and that doesn't indicate to you that perhaps he doesn't think those masterpieces are that great.

BTW Next time you propose the "Prince only cares about what's ahead" baloney, make sure such a theory doesn't conflict with the FACT that he's playing 20+ year old tracks in concert.

1725topp said:

In 1994 and 1995 Prince largely played new music + B-Sides etc. Most sane fans still regard these concerts as the return of the Prince from the 1980s: the man who'd blow your mind. Oh, and let's not forget the TRC era.

1725topp said:

He could have them available for download. And I bet there are plenty of businesses that would happily help Prince keep his records in print (for a fee).

1725topp said:

Which he doesn't. Thanks for proving my point.

1725topp said:

Still not getting the point, I see. Re-read what I wrote. It isn't about what I want for him, it's about how his ACTIONS prove my point.

Lemme type this real slow: instead of playing the music he wrote and recorded when he was "FREE", Prince seems to prefer to play music he wrote and recorded when he was a "SLAVE", music that promotes records that still generate money for the company that "enslaved" him.

1725topp said:

So why can't you admit that all evidence points to Prince not caring for them?

i agree with everything bart van hemelen says.

prince started to play songs like dmsr or strange relationship or the beautiful ones or these awful covers instead of new songs exactly as his new albums became mediocre (since emancipation, except one nite alone-tour, supporting his worst album).

i don't know how anybody can disagree with this fact.

diamonds and pearls tour: 11 new songs played every night + 2 new songs (sexy mf & damn u) + let's go crazy, kiss, thieves in the temple and 1999/star. this is how it should be.

he used to be the musician's musician! i cannot imagine bono or bruce or david bowie listening to lotus flower or planet earth.

it's sad but i think he's released more bad albums than good (important) ones.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

Rorywan said:

Works for me at night clubs.

Holy christ, Bart's here!

Dayclear said:

Yes YEAH THAT!

Michael Jackson sold how many tickets in how many minutes for his last shows at 02? And what did the King of Pop say in his last media conference

"I'll be playing the songs my fans wanna hear"

And the crowd went mad...his tracklists were pretty much similar in his concerts. Yet the legend lives on and on and on and will forever.

Bless you MJ.

BartVanHemelen said:

So, I guess the insane fans would be those of us who liked The Symbol Album and roll our eyes every time we hear, "He's back" from wherever he was supposed to have been? Besides, my point is that Prince has a history of not playing killer songs when they are first released, and then playing them later, such as "Adore," which was only played at the aftershows for the SOTT Tour and as a brief snippet during the LoveSexy Tour, but found its way into the set list years later. There are some songs that are about a particular message and some songs about a particular mood, which tends to be more about creating something in the studio. Yet, Musicology songs were featured on the tour and 3121 and Planet Earth songs have shown up on other tours and been played on television to promote the albums so I would say that he's played them. My point is that he seems to think or know that most of the folk in attendance have come with a set list, and depending on his mood he will placate them.

BartVanHemelen said:

One, Prince’s websites are terrible. Even if they start well, they seem never to end well. This is because he seems to be unable to work with anyone or trust anyone. So, his need to micromanage means that he has been unable to find a quality webmaster who can do all this work. Secondly, Prince seems to be cheap. So finding quality work, especially a qualty webmaster for long-term employment, is difficult when you are cheap or don't pay well as the rumors insist. Third, even if there was a business that would archive his songs on their website for free, they would still charge something or want part of the profits. Based on his past statements, sharing profits does not seem to be a viable option. Also based on his past statements, he does not seem to trust anyone enough to feel secure that the company would not underreport the amount of sales. So, he is too much of a micromanager to appoint someone to run his own site properly, and he is still too angry snd mistrustful over the WB issues to share profit sales with anyone, usually opting to just pay someone a fee to sell his wares or allow them to purchase a load of his wares and resell them. Yet, neither case proves your point that he does not like his new music.

BartVanHemelen said:

He hates his former company, not his music. I never said that he does not like his old work. Why would he not play his older songs? When he is singing them live, he is making all the cash, which may be the greatest revenge of all. It's not like he's sending a check to WB after every live performance. Maybe you should learn to read slowly as well.

BartVanHemelen said:

Because it does not. There are a lot of reasons why certain songs get played live and some don't. Your logic means that Prince is saying, "I wrote these songs, I recorded these songs, I offered them for sale as a part of my legacy, but I don't like them." Maybe if he was tied to a long-term recoding contract, your theory would hold water. But since he records when he wants to record and tours when he wants to tour, there is no reason for him to write, record, and sell songs that he doesn't like. Now you could counter my point by asserting that he knows that no matter what he records and sells he’ll make a lot of money because there are plenty of Kook-Aid drinkers who will purchase anything with his name on it. Yet, if I’m willing to admit that his websites are terrible, that his photo/poetry book was uninteresting to me (even if I do like Indigo Nights), that the opening of the Nude Tour is my least favorite opening to a live show because I hate house music (I love everything after the house music ends), that the only song from Bria’s album that I have coupled with Lotusflow3r/MPLS is "Elixer," that most of the bootleg studio songs that I’ve heard do not move me (I’ve collected bootlegs since 1988), and that Prince has missed a great opportunity by not releasing more live audio and video, I could surely admit if I was not moved by his music or a particular release. His work does not sound uninspired to me, and you have not provided enough evidence to show that he doesn’t care for them.

However, even if the doesn’t care for Lotusflow3r/MPLS, there are a lot of songs that people like that the artist did not particularly like. Tina Turner did not initially like "What’s Love Got to Do with It," L. L. Cool J didn’t like "Going Back to Cali" or "I Need Love," and there are many other examples. As an artist, I can tell you that artists are often amazed as to what your audience will like. Sometimes, the artist is thinking, "I’mma kill’em with this," and the work is completely ignored. Then, other times, the artist thinks that the work is a throw-away piece, but it finds an audience, much like Louie Armstrong getting a hit with "Hello Dolly," a song that he recorded and forgot until he was on the road and fans were requesting it. So, even if you are right that Prince may not care for his latest production as much as his earlier work, it does not mean that the work lacks quality. Besides, it would be difficult for him or a Prince fan to like anything more than "Purple Rain."

As an adult, I don’t need Prince to blow my mind like he did when I was 14. I just want solid work, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS, in my opinion, is solid work with moments of Prince genius. "Dreamer," "Colonized Mind," "Feel Better, Feel Good, Feel Wonderful," "Dance 4 Me," and "Old Skool Company" have great energy and move me. He if wasn’t inspired or moved when he wrote them, it simply means that 70% of Prince pleases me more than 100% of what’s on today’s radio, so all I need him to be is 70%. But not liking his latest songs as much as he he likes his older songs does not mean that he does not like his latest songs at all, and it does not prove that he is uninspired. It simply means that with age one's style chagnes as one's priorities change. If fifty year old Prince was just writing "Head," "P-Control," "Days O Wild," or "Face Down," all songs that I love, I'd think that he was trying to hard to remain young, not that he was inspired or like those songs.

Bohemian67 said:

What was that about assholes?