And I'm not just talking about the tracks with Tony M.

Apart from a small handful of slow jams (namely the exquisite Damn U, Sweet Baby and Money Don't Matter) his output from 1990-1992 has aged awfully. I would be embarassed if tracks like Daddy Pop or Pope or My Name Is Prince or Graffiti Bridge or Blue Light or Jughead or The Flow or New Power Generation came on my iPod shuffle in front of a friend.

Even the better tracks from this era have aged poorly. Everything was so big and over-produced, from the cowbells and cringeful rap on Gett Off to the naff sound effects that ruin 7... this really wasn't a time for Prince to be proud of.

And it's not just the music... Take a look at the D&P video compilation... everything from the ghastly music videos, to the clothes he wore, to the stage sets from the Nude tour... it's all aged so horribly.
[Edited 8/19/09 6:51am]

I completely agree. Although I feel that way about a lot of his post-80's work, but the early nineties was definately a creative low for him.

Definitely agree.
Today his music is not much better, BUT, at least the cringe factor is mostly gone.

He has an incredible body of work, as long as he keeps the cringe factor down for the rest of his career, people will forget about "We March" and most of his 90's work.
There are some really good songs from the 90's that were buried in glitter and marshmallows, I think if you strip some of those songs down you will find some really good songs, I just listened to the recent live version of "Chaos and Disorder" and its dam good.

The 90’s, when Prince was a dildo rolled in glitter,... musically, mentally and physically.

.
[Edited 8/19/09 9:17am]

It's all so subjective, I like what I like, plenty of great great stuff in that period in my mind. Man can't be all things to all people and fit everyone's narrow definitions of good music. I like most of the stuff he puts out or I would have stopped listening. Compared to my other favorite artists, he has a much better batting average per album than anyone I like. Of course he puts out too much stuff, if he released an album once every 4 or 5 years people would go nuts over them. I think most of you fans are just too picky, I've heard every album he's put out post purple rain called garbage, just not true.

I find a lot of music from 1989/90 to 1992/3 is a bit dated now.

early to mid 1980s is now retro cool again

mid to late 1990s is pretty well thought of

early 2000s to now is still too recent to have not entered naff or cool status yet.

MattyJam said:

We Can Funk
Joy In Repetition
Diamonds And Pearls
Strollin'
Willing And Able
Money Don't Matter 2-Night
Insatiable
Sexy MF
Love 2 The 9's
The Morning Papers
Sweet Baby
Damn U
Arrogance
3 Chains O' Gold
Pink Cashmere
Papa
Solo
... Aged ?

I recall listening to the symbol album for the first time and concluding that he was getting better and better. The high points on that album blew me away. Now, in retrospect, I wouldn't put it in the class of his vintage stuff but it's still awfully awfully good music. Not all of it, I thought my name is prince was the worst single he ever released, sounded like he scribbled the lyrics out right before he sang/rapped it, horrible. But for all the misguided hip hop there was some really great stuff, as a vocalist he was getting stronger, as a guitarist he was getting more proficient and the music was polished more than ever. Prince doesn't put out bad albums,(with maybe one or two exceptions) he just doesn't, people just get picky. Every album prince has released brings out some criticism about what direction he took, I just keep listening for what I like and it's always worth the time. I can't say I like any of his hip hop stuff, not because i don't like his hip hop but rather I'm not a big fan of the genre. I'm glad he left it behind, but there are still people all over the boards here that won't say a kind word about Musicology, Rave, ONA etc..,

i like the 90's work.....

I disagree. Diamonds & Pearls and are some of his best work in that decade. Granted, Pope and especially Jughead are not good songs, but there are so many other great songs from this period; Get Off and 7 are two of them. Then there are good songs like Melody Cool, Thunder, Cream, Sexy Mother Fucker, I Wanna Melt With U etc.

Symbol has a curious mix of great tracks and horrific duds. On one hand you have utter dross like My Name Is Prince, Blue Light, The Flow and The Max, and then on the other hand you have a small handful of tracks that I would put up there with his best work (Damn U and Sweet Baby).

D&P in 2009 has very few saving graces. Tracks like Live 4 Love and Thunder are so hideously tacky and overblown, it makes me pine for the days when his music didn't scream "look at me, aren't I a genius? Look at how many instruments I can play..."

The best songs on GB all originated from the 80s (We Can Funk, Joy In Repetition).

I don't include the brilliant Come in this coversation however, as I think that album was solid gold. But that's from 1993 anyway... I'm talking about the time period from 90-92.
[Edited 8/19/09 8:04am]

MattyJam said:

I agree for the most part. I have never been a fan of Symbol...and it has NOT been aging well at all. I liked D&P when it came out...but as the years go on...I now rarely listen to it. However, there are tracks on both I have always dug and I still do. Sorry, but I like Cream, as well as Gett Off, Willing & Able, Insaitable, Walk Don't Walk, Money Don't Matter. Symbol...I really only still listen to 7 and God Created Woman...and thats it. The rest really sucks bad and has only gotten worse over the years.

Compare that to his 80 to 88 output...Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, & Parade sounds fresher than anything he did in the early 90s. The others might have that dated drum programming/synth sound...but they still rock.

the 90's was a hard time for a lot of artists, the music scene changed considerably

there was some good music and artists that popped up in the 90's

Prince had a lot of troubles and hinderances in the 90's so looking back I can understand the music not being as good,

others like Madonna made some daring and successful choices, she was on par with Mike Prince & Bruce in the 80's but the early 90's 90-95 she really blew up

Poplife88 said:

You must dig Damn U, surely?!

Hmmm... I still like Pope (completely original vibe with the girl chorus, conversational tone, and it's hilarious to make a rap about being a Pope), Daddy Pop (strong melody, catchy, sure the bells on the beat make me think of C&C Music Factory, but it still stands as a good pop composition (play it on a piano), My Name is Prince (this isn't even a genre, cuz it's not rap, its some kind of epic horror bomb squad funk with comical almost self satirical boasts) and the funky weapon remix of New Power Generation with its carnival vibe is still not a cliche genre song, its Prince brand dark scifi/fantasy material (maybe the drum sound is dated).

Funny 2 of the songs you chose like "Money don't Matter, Sweet Baby" sound dated to me and very boring and cliche. Those sound like early 90's forgetable things that anyone could come up with to my ears.

Gett Off's only dated part to my ears is the break down stop in the last half where it the music halts momentarily with that one bass synth playing 3 or 4 notes down to a complete halt. Other wise, it's weird middle eastern orgy slomo fat funk feel still sounds startling. Sure Tony M and Rosie's vocals kind of date it. But Prince's don't.

Yes, the videos are HORRIBLE. Except for Cream. That one is great!

MattyJam said:

I agree w/ everything you said here, although I do like "blue light." Just a fun little song.

.
[Edited 11/25/09 15:07pm]

mzkqueen03 said:

mzkqueen03 said:

Same here!!!

Love the 90s stuff, sooo much better than the 2000s.

.
[Edited 11/25/09 15:08pm]

Most of his 1990s stuff aged horribly on the day after it's release.

MattyJam said:

i like gett off and my name is prince!

GirlBrother said:

yep

1999 didnt aged well too. what the hell is age well? not to sound too far from current or classic rock and r&b?

7salles maybe what you hear as dated about 1999 is more related
to mastering then
being dated actually.
If 1999 gets remastered you will be blown
away how fresh it sounds.
carbon copies of that sound updated with
House dominate charts today.
1999 is Amazing influence on most of the Dance music such as House.
All the Critics love you in New York is early House music if you ask me

saafiir said:

Some will quibble that some of these songs, while released in the early 90s, were originally recorded earlier; that being said, I have to agree with most of your list. As much as there are tracks from Graf Bridge to that I don't care to hear ever again, Prince crafted some of his best pop songs during that time. And when I say "pop" I mean it in its most specific genre sense--much of it was quirk-free of that special Purple touch many of us like so much, but there are solid pop songs from that era.

I disagree with the topic and am still shakin' my ass every time I listen to and Diamonds and Pearls. Perhaps you're just not sexy enough to appreciate the music.


(_(_| (_|_) |_)_)

Different strokes for different folks. Even though I am mostly playing Lotusflow3r/MPLS now, I have this habit of listening to Prince's work chronologically from For You to Lotusflow3r/MPLS, and Diamonds and Pearls and The Symbol Album still move me--front to back. Now, I'll admit that since I don't listen to a great deal of rap, Prince's rapping doesn't bother me like it does others, and I wasn't that bothered by Tony M. in the nineties. But to diss "Gett Off," man it was funky then, and it's still funky. Also, I've never had a cringe factor when it comes to Prince's music. I know that a lot do, but I guess that I've never really surrounded myself with narrow-minded folks, and I've never cared what others thought. And I don't mean to be flippant, but why would you have something on your iPod if you are worried about it playing around some of your friends? (But, I'm sure you mean that you just don't have those songs on your iPod.) Like I said, different strokes for different folks. I liked them when I was college, and I still like them now. In fact, Diamonds and Pearls, to me, is a much better example of real musicianship and songwriting than what's on the radio today. It has passionate and serious cuts, "Thunder," "Walk Don't Walk," "Money Don't Matter Tonight," the sexy stuff with "Insatiable," classic love jam "Diamonds and Pearls," power rock anthem "Live 4 Love," and fun stuff with "Jughead" and "Push." The album is a musical and lyrical journey. And The Symbol Album is great because it is an experiment in sound as well as in storytelling. Of course, when one is experimenting, he may not craft a "radio friendly" tune, but "Morning Papers" and "Love 2 d 9s" could have made more noise on radio and the charts, but Prince seemingly was reading the writing on the wall that other stuff was going to be played regardless. Yet, "7" still proved that Prince could write songs and rock with the best of them. And to have an album that begins with "My Name Is Prince" at one end of the black music spectrum and end with "Sacrifice of Victor" at the other end of the black music spectrum with so many other genres between them makes the record an example of a musician thinking more about how blending sounds can blend cultures and ideas and not just cranking out another song that follows the formula of how to get a hit. Again, different strokes for different folks. These two albums are just Prince being Prince, an artist who is always trying to find the musical and lyrical intersection where the past, present, and future converge so that he can be the prism of it all.

I'm not disputing that he created some absolute gems back then, but I'm talking about the bigger picture. The ratio of fillers to great tracks on GB, D&P and Symbol was pretty high. I've listed all the songs that make me cringe in my opening post, and interestingly, no-one has swooped in to defend these crimes against music.

And if you read my opening post again, you'll see I wasn't just referring to the music. I'm talking about the whole package. Have you watched the D&P video compilation lately? It's shocking. The NPG make MC Hammer look convincingly street. And you had the Graffiti Bridge movie, the tacky artwork, sub-par music videos....

In terms of the actual music I love songs like The Morning Papers and Damn U as much as the next fan, but even the most diehard zealots must be able to at least recognise a little of what I'm referring to.

I liked Prince's rap when he would toy with it, before it was a fad, like on Girls and boys, now that to me was cool as fuck. His trying to be gangsta is really embarassing to me. The attempt to imitate the street accent is embarassing. But, I have to say some of the Hip hop stuff ain't bad, Sexy MF was a great tune, BUT.. not because of the hip hop elements but because the music. I think the raps hurt some very good songs. But, i'm not closed minded either, Joint to Joint from Emancipation was funky as hell to me. As it were, D&P was his biggest commercial triumph since purple rain I believe and was the impetus to the ill fated 100 million dollar deal he signed. Anyway, does he hit a home run for me everytime? No, but no one else does either. Compared to my other faves he's incredibly consistent. I admire him so much for his work ethic, you don't see many others in his field who can keep up that pace.