The best stuff from the early 90s is the material with a more organic (band) sound - like Willing & Able, Love 2 The 9s, Money Don't Matter, Damn U.

Some of the Come/Gold era also still sounds pretty fresh to me, I think it will be re-appraised by the wider audience in the future if they ever get a chance (re-issues, compilations etc). It has an energy to it that has rarely been seen since in Prince's output.

I'm not counting things like We Can Funk and Joy In Repetition since they're from the 80s. You know, the 89-92 period hasn't aged too well for most pop culture, maybe in a few years time it will come 'round again for another shot.

The more organic sounding songs like 'Money Don't Matter 2night', 'Cream', 'Walk Don't Walk', 'Diamonds & Pearls'. 'The Morning Papers', 'And God Created Woman', 'Damn U', 'Sweet Baby', 'Blue Light' have not aged at all.

'Gett Off' despite being electronic still (to me) sounds fresh. The issue with some of these tracks is Tony M's rapping. He mauls 'The Max' and 'Sexy MF'. He intrudes on 'Willing and Able' awfully. If he were removed these would sound more contemporary.

However, I don't think one can deny the brilliance and classic-status of songs like 'Question of U' and 'Joy in Repetition'. To me these are pretty timeless.

One other thing that has always bothered me from this era is how ghastly his music videos were. I know the visual side of his work has always been fairly poor (from the tacky album covers to the cheap music videos) but never more so than the early 90s.

I know Prince has never expressed much interest in music videos, but it did seem for a while in the early 90s that he had some very elaborate concepts he was working on but had no real budget to support his ideas (namely 3 Chains O Gold and Graffiti Bridge). Prince was still considered a major player in the industry at this time, so why did the visual side of his work suck so badly compared to that of Michael Jackson or Madonna?
[Edited 8/20/09 3:26am]

MattyJam said:

I never thought of his visuals being poor, just never have. Maybe in some areas. Of course he had a built in excuse for his first several vids. Graffiti Bridge was of course low budget and nearly worthless as a film, but people seem to think he had more clout than he really did at the time. He picked up some momentum with the Batman album but Lovesexy, Sign O'The Times, Parade all went downhill from a commercial perspective. No one was going to give him a big budget at that time. Again, subjectivity, but i liked most of his visuals, I liked how he had a new image every time around. He was cool in the PR era but he didn't get stuck in it like many guys would, he turned right around and got a Liza Minelli haircut and psychedelic clothes. Then he went with the great pompadour for Parade, never stood still, some ways that was bad, other ways it was great.I tell you one thing, that goofy beard and hairstyle around the GB era was awful to me. Just didn't look right. At least he tried, Michael Jackson had a Jheri curl up until the dangerous era, that's ridiculous.

MattyJam said:

It didn't age, that ish was bad when it came out. Prince had a young fanbase eager for the next Purple Rain so it sold, but even back in the day it didn't compare well with Jam and Lewis, Babyface or Teddy Riley productions. You never heard most of that on the radio, except for 'Gett Off", which deserves it's own thread for being Prince's most illegitimate hit record.

funksterr said:

I've never understood the fuss over Gett Off.

The song itself isn't too bad, but Prince's rapping and the god-awful production make it so difficult to listen to.
[Edited 8/20/09 4:29am]

moussemaker said:

i'll always remember listening 2 thunder the first time, still love that song...and MTV beginning of the 90s was a must see 4 a teenager

MattyJam said:

I always dug it, the little quirky woodwinds and stuff. I also liked how it was a homage to how Quincy Jones would explain to a jazz band the feeling he wanted, "You dirty motherfucker!" Prince copped that.

Now, you want to talk about illegitimate, My Name is Prince was always garbage to me, maybe it was the first time I heard "when it comes to funk, I am the chunky" just one of the worst lines ever by an elite artist in my mind.

I wouldn't be so hard on how things have 'aged'. All music is a product of it's
time, and it's only the whims of current fashion, taste and what's deemed
'cool' that makes people react negatively to the aging process.

In the late 90's, everyone was saying how all the early 80's music had aged
horribly. Now, a lot of those early 80's sounds are 'cool' again, and the
charts are littered with music that's heavily influenced by that era.
(not to mention the 80's influences in current fashion trends)

The same was said in the 80's about 70's music and now we're saying it about
90's music. In 5-10 years time, it wouldn't surprise me if all the 'horrible'
90's music sounds are back in vogue again, as well as some of the 'looks'.

And don't forget, in 10 years time, people will saying how awful the production
was and how badly all the new music you're listening to at the moment has dated.
[Edited 8/20/09 5:31am]

BorisFishpaw said:

But I hope tose terrible clothes Prince wore on the nude tour never make a comeback.

NouveauDance said:

Me, too.

1992-5/6 Career peak for me.

Saying something has dated, says just as much about where you/we are at musically now. By the late 60's, early 70's the twee Beatles material of 63-4 sounded horribly dated. Now we see it with a bit more perspective.

There's a lot of 80's music that would have been unlistenable in in the 90's. Now the scurge that is 'hyper-retro-ism' makes it far more acceptable. Just wait a few more years for the early 90's to roll 'round again.

Having said all of that, as someone has already mentioned, it's all subjective.

BorisFishpaw said:

Yeah, but no one will ever reevaluate "Disco Duck" or "We Built This City" and say they're cool again.
Its not just about the production, it is also about a time stamp that has nothing to do with the technology involved, but the themes and mentality of the artist in relation to the times. social themes of the 60's, will remain cool but the term "Boogie" on a lot of 70's disco will not, regardless of the technology or recording techniques.

I also like Come, despite a whole lot of wrong with it. Like i said in a previous post, there are some songs from that era that are brilliant, But layered in so much cheese its hard to stomach.
Cheese has been a part of music in every decade, good cheese ages well, but most will go bad if left out and not consumed immediately.
Prince produced a lot bad cheese in the 90's
[Edited 8/20/09 8:57am]

BorisFishpaw said:

I totally agree.

If we mean by 'dated' we can reference it to a particular time then the 80s is the most dated, with it's cheesy keyboards, drum machines etc.

Where the music is mainly REAL instruments e.g. guitars, bass and live drums, as much of the truely great songs from 1993-1996 were, IMO this is much more difficult to date.

In any case we are talking about songs where we KNOW when they were recorded and released, so we cannot be objective.

And after all, a good song is a good song, whenever it was recorded. I have always been a believer that Prince didn't stop recording consistently great music after 31.12.89 as some would have us believe.

MattyJam said:

I'm not swooping to defend all those tracks as being great works of art, but i do like several, and they are a handful as compared to the many great tracks included on those 1990s albums.

In any case I could name many more from the 80s that make me cringe, their productuion, their lyrics, it is all subjective and open to each indivudual's taste.

There are plenty of filler tracks on albums such as Lovesexy, Sign 'O' The Times etc. IMO the most complete and near flawless albums from the 80s are Dirty Mind and Purple Rain.

mozfonky said:

Hmmm... he says " I am a junkie" (a sick addict). I personally love this song. I think the sound/concept/video of it is very creative, fun, and seriously a cool mix of noises and satirical attitude.

I think songs like "Sweet Baby" "Morning Papers" and other normal bland generic songs, are horribly uninteresting in retrospect. Anyone can come up with that stuff. No one comes up with stuff like Pheremone, Come, My Name is Prince, Arrogance, 7 , Pussy Control, 319, Solo, etc.

I like Prince's songs that are uniquely his, whether they are a slap to the face of conventionality or not.

Meh, I like what I like. If it sounds aged, then I'm old as fart! LOL

mozfonky said:

Yeah as bad as that song is, at least he wrote that mess. 'Gett Off' rips James Brown's Mother Popcorn and featured dated, unoriginal sampling Of En Vouge. It was already played out to sample that tune at the time because other artists had already done so. Imagine Lil Wayne or somebody doing that to a Prince song. We wouldn't respect it. So that's why I can't respect what Prince did to Mother Popcorn.

I prefer most of his stuff from the 90's and 00's over his 70's and 80's work.

He's got plenty of 80's stuff I enjoy too, but I enjoy his work from the last 20 years on a more consistent basis.

funksterr said:

Yikes!
I think Gett Off is one of the few saving graces of the 90's
To me the songt makes the grade as a true Prince classic, along with 7.

Yes these are some cheeseball moments in the song, yes it mentions james in the lyrics, yes the production was starting to veer towards the formula he would use throughout the 90's,....
but that crazy hook that runs throughout the song switching between what sounds like a flute, then guitar, mixed with a synth is totally bad-ass.
Whenever some merely mentions this song that awesome hook immediately plays out in my head....
and that hook has nothing to do with James EnVouge or anybody else but Prince.

MattyJam said:

Sounds like to me, it is just more of an issue of tastes. One, nothing--music or video--that Madonna has ever done has moved me. So, I would not consider her videos great. Two, MJ made some great songs and mostly creative and well-executied videos, but both his music and videos don't move me like Prince's music and videos. It's just about what one likes. I think that "Thriller," the song, is decent--at best, but the video is probably the best ever made. However, neither the song or the video for "Thriller" move me like "When Doves Cry," the song and the video. I love the videos for Dirty Mind, Controvery, and 1999 because being raised in a blues town, I love performers. So, concept videos are good, but I'm more moved by performance video. Again, different strokes for different folks. As for his early 90s work/video, they are what I like, and even though I like "Bad," the song and the video, when it was released I could not help but think, "This is nice, but it is the same concept as "Beat It." Prince's musical growth and evolving subject matter, even during the early 90s, moved me more than MJ and Madonna, but that's because that is what I like.

Again, as for the cringe factor, I never had that problem--then or now because I like what I like--then and now. And as for the songs on Diamonds and Pearls and The Symbol Album, I don't skip any when I'm listening to the albums.
[Edited 8/20/09 21:47pm]

Madonna is someone I can't take seriously as an artist. It's a fact that she's a marketing phenomenon but no one should confuse that with artistic merit or talent. Some of her music was good, but she had an army of talented people every step of the way, people who had none of the sexuality, charm and personality she had to bring it all to life. I respect her work ethic though. Much of how an artist is liked depends on the listeners own perceptions, it's the reason why Bruce Springsteen will always be a fave over Prince even though he's not as talented. Prince does resonate with me a lot though. Michael does too but not as much. However, the stuff where he is speaking in a fake hip-hop, gangsta voice, as on Slaughterhouse and using the bass sounds of the time, that kind of stuff takes away from him. And let us not forget, he was never, ever a proponent of the entired Hip-hop movement and so how can anyone take the stuff seriously. More than anything, I believe it was his competitive spirit which made him do it, not his actual feelings for the genre. I still like some of the music that went along with the hip hop and never cringed like some of my fellow prince fans at songs like Pcontrol etc.., I liked the unselfconscious rapping of Irrestible Bitch, that was where he really should have left it. Not holding Microphone guns and all of that.

saafiir said:

These songs still kick ass

I disagree with the title of this thread. I still listen to a lot of the music from this era. The only thing I didn't like was Tony M's terrible rapping. Other than that, I thoroughly enjoy many songs from the albums of this era. Prince's early 90's music came from the time it came from, so how would it not sound "dated?"

What music doesn't sound dated? All songs, classics or not, sound like the era they came from. This applies to everything from John Coltrane's greatest works to the Stone's hits to Nat King Cole or Stevie Wonder. No matter how great or bad the song, it will sound like the time in which it was created/produced. So at the end of the day, it is about good and bad songs. And that is completely subjective. As this post demonstrates.

Of course it is subjective you have people on this board who hate any rap music, funk and RnB. So you can't really take anything they have to say seriously.

I think the symbol CD is great and so is Emancipation. I play cuts from these CDs for people who don't even like Prince but they really like the cuts on these CDS.

mozfonky said:

laurarichardson said:

I agree with this. Of course, we are all entitled to our own preferences. However, one thing that I have noticed on this site over the years is that there is a contingent of people who seem to completely trash anything Prince does that is R&B, Funk or has Rap. It seems like some people only have a taste for pop/rock Prince and they dismiss anything else as garbage.

Like you, I plan stuff from Come, D&P, the Symbol album and Emancipation for non-Prince fans, and they love it. I might be listening to some of it and people will stop and ask what it is or what album it's on.

violetblues said:

I feel you on that hook point. But what you didn't address was that the lyrics are like 90% Mother Popcorn by James Brown and the bassline in a played-out En Vogue sample. Not exactly 'Lady Cab Driver' level genius. That was definitely the beginning of Prince thinking he could throw anything out there and people would buy it.

mozfonky said:

I totally agree about Madonna. I can't take anything away from her as a businesswoman, but as a "musician" I have always had a hard time taking her as seriously as so many seem to. I think Rhianna is much the same as Madonna in that regard, though with far less personality or creativity. However, what makes them similar to me is that they both have teams that create who they are and then market the crap out of them.

Unlike a lot of people, I loved the microphone gun, it was a sexy nonviolent take on what was going on in rap music to me. Although some of the Prince rap was hit or miss, I liked a lot of it. For example, I love Silicon of the Slaughterhouse album. For me, it's always been about the journey, the evolution of the Prince as an artist. I don't have a problem with him sampling the sounds/trends of the time as long as he doesn't completely lose himself in it, which, to me, he never did. For every song that had a rap thing going on, there was a song that was unabashedly "Prince." So, I really don't have complaints. What I like I like, what I don't I skip over. However, there is a lot more that I like than that I don't.

I have a side question: Why do so many say that Prince was never a proponent of rap? I could totally see him digging some of the "real" stuff not the garbage.
[Edited 8/21/09 8:22am]

1725topp said:

MJ & Madonna had very high rated videos almost like little movies, the qualities and direction was very professional, then you add the entertainers touch.

Prince's earlies videos I liked because it felt like the music Controversy sounded like it was in a chapel

1999 had similar feels

Purple Rain videos were mostly cuts from the movie except for When Doves Cry, it was a very good change in direction and showed the band in a differen light
and put Prince in a bit of a more acting role

Around the World in a Day produced one of the top best videos of all time:Raspberry Beret

Parade in my opinion took Prince's videos from point 7 or 8 to point 10
superb videos: Girls & Boys Kiss Mountians Another Lovers

SOTT again concert videos, except for U Got the Look which I love the collage dream sequence at the beginning

Lovesexy to me had better videos: Alphabet St a last minute late night through together, It could have been planned out better the quality was a drop from all previous videos, Glam Slam was really good and planned out, I Wish U Heaven I really liked too,

Overall I think Prince videos don't look thought out, looked to rushed or last minute, which doesn't do the song justice.

Even his videos for Lotus Flower did nothing to pull me in. Matrix inspiration definately

I'm not the biggest fan of mike nor Madonna but the video quality and production were just so much more professional thought out and artistic
I can watch and enjoy a video without being a fan of the person work
and that's actually how a lot of people are won over or their interests in other entertainers are peaked.

MTV 80's generation did a lot to expose people to music they never listened to before because of videos